logo Sign In

(Spoilers)How could The Force Awakens have been more original? — Page 10

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

John Doom said:

Lord Haseo said:

John Doom said:

-that FO-guy doesn’t respect his authority and is in no way scared of him;

HUX: Careful, Ren, that your personal interest does not interfere with orders from Supreme Leader Snoke.
KYLO REN: I want, that map. For your sake, I suggest you get it.

Hux doesn’t say shit after this.

It’s enough already, but there’s also that (only?) other scene where they meet again before Snork and he looks amused to see him hopeless for his failure.

So, by your same argument here, vader is a weak and crap villain in the first Star Wars then? Tarkin isn’t the least bit scared of Vader and doesn’t respect his authority either.

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time
Post link

adywan said:
And this is why the prequels failed. Star Wars was a fantasy film. He developed midichlorians in a very early draft when it was more science fiction, but throw them out when it became more about myth and fantasy. The second he resurrected them as a way to try and explain the force, he threw the fantasy element out of the window.

To say that the prequels “failed” because of a piece of technobabble you did not like is a bit shallow in itself isn’t it? I guess shallow people like shallow movies. What the two trilogies do in unison, is present a dualistic view of the force. The OT stresses the importance of the spiritual balance. TPM says no, there’s more to it than that, you don’t have to take it on blind faith, it can be understood from a rational perspective also. A complete understanding includes both the spiritual and the material aspect. Qui-Gon is presented as a more spiritual man within the more pragmatic organization of the late jedi order. He follows the force more than the code and has problems with the council over that.

Author
Time
Post link

BmB said:
What the two trilogies do in unison, is present a dualistic view of the force.

That’s a fancy way of saying George didn’t care about he source material which should have been adhered to when making the PT.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

BmB said:
Abrams raped my childhood.

BmB said:
Also, midichlorians were introduced in 1978.

Ladies and gentlemen, I present you every kid born from 1990-2005

Author
Time
Post link

My daughters were born at the tail end of that range and would never say something so stupid.

Author
Time
Post link

I wish i could hide this thread so i would stop compulsively viewing it just to change the status to ‘read’.

Author
Time
Post link

I would never say something so stupid either. Well, maybe if was saying something else that’s just as stupid in comparison, but not that same thing 😉.

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Lord Haseo said:

John Doom said:

Sure, but it doesn’t help that, together with everything else I said, makes him less and less of a threat.

To Rey maybe. But to Poe and Finn he’s a legitimate threat.

We are Rey :\ I don’t remember them actually being threated by him except for Poe in the beginning and Finn in the end. But Poe is nowhere to been seen for 3/4 of the movie, and trying to make Kylo a threat in the end was too late by then. It was boring :\

Vader looks conflicted only in ROTJ, when the main villain is now the Emperor. Combined with everything above, this further makes kylo less of a threat.

But Vader is still a main villain. A villain who was the main baddie for 2/3 of the trilogy. That doesn’t diminish the fact that they both have conflict.

That’s right: at that point, his role has become less important, so he doesn’t need to be an actual threat. The Emperor, who’s activily tricking them into fighting against each other, is the main villain, and his ways are the major threat to Luke’s life.

Never being able to see him scared was what made him, even if apparently, more menacing.

That’s good and all but he still seemed scared with the mask on when he was defeated by Luke.

And he was not the main villain anymore, so it’s fine.

Why do you keep saying Kylo has less experience? I know this, but it’s things like this that lessens his role as the main villain.

I keep on saying this is because people are trying to equate him to Vader when the character was literally designed NOT to be a fully realized villain. I’m pretty sure people didn’t say Luke didn’t/would never work as a hero because of his failures in ESB so people chastising Kylo is a bit hypocritical.

:\ I’m not comparing Kylo to Vader. I’m saying Vader is (for example) a good villain, and TFA could’ve used another more threatening villain besides Kylo.
Luke doesn’t fail in ESB like you say, he fights hard to overcome his weakness and obstacles, learning about the Force and facing his evil dark side. He faces Vader and is nearly defeated, but he succeds in not giving up to the dark side to save his “moral integrity”. In the end, he wins his battle, even if it’s a bittersweet ending. So no, I don’t think he doesn’t work as a hero, I think he’s actually the perfect hero, since he’s constantly challanged.

Well bringing it back to ESB Luke had absolutely no training in the art of lightsaber combat (which is completely separate from Force training) and was still able to land a strike on one of the best Duelists in Star Wars history. So Finn landing a hit on and injured, pompous and not fully trained Dark Side warrior isn’t a huge stretch.

Vader’s objective wasn’t to defeat Luke, he was only trying to corner him, and Luke only manages to scratch his armor, no even wounding him.
Kylo, on the other hand, was surely trying to kill Finn (not Rey, I get this), had enough knowledge of the Force to freeze him, push him, disarm him and kill him instantly, but nope. Supposing he was reckless as you suggested, it still makes him kind of a fake threat if he doesn’t fully fight once in the movie.

It doesn’t matter, he just doesn’t work as the main villain. As I said, I’m ok with him the way he is, but somone else should’ve played the role of the main villain, someone who could be seen as an actual threat.

If so Luke didn’t work as a hero in ESB.

If you say so. He basically was the incarnation of everything a hero is supposed to be.

adywan said:

So, by your same argument here, vader is a weak and crap villain in the first Star Wars then? Tarkin isn’t the least bit scared of Vader and doesn’t respect his authority either.

With all due respect for your work on ANH, which I liked a lot, I’m not sure we’ve seen the same movie 😄
I don’t remember Tarkin not respecting Vader’s authority. Tarkin is Vader’s boss, that’s for sure, but he always stand together with him (except when Vader is in battle in the end) and always speaks directly to him, respects his decisions and trusts in him. Tarkin may not be scared by Vader (though he does fear he might lose his control), but everyone else in the movie is, especially the main characters. He’s a constant threat, and this is reminded to the viewers too, especially when he kills Luke’s companions one-by-one.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

John Doom said:
We are Rey

Actually if the audience can relate to anyone moreso it’s Finn but that’s an entirely different conversation.

I don’t remember them actually being threated by him except for Poe in the beginning and Finn in the end.

And let’s not forget Rey in the Forest towards the middle of the film.

and trying to make Kylo a threat in the end was too late by then. It was boring :\

I think him rendering Finn’s spine useless was an effective way to make him a thread but okay.

That’s right: at that point, his role has become less important, so he doesn’t need to be an actual threat. The Emperor, who’s activily tricking them into fighting against each other, is the main villain, and his ways are the major threat to Luke’s life.

His role became slightly less important and none of that excuses him not acting more like a villain. A villain who has had decades of experience being one.

Luke doesn’t fail in ESB like you say, he fights hard to overcome his weakness and obstacles, learning about the Force and facing his evil dark side. He faces Vader and is nearly defeated, but he succeds in not giving up to the dark side to save his “moral integrity”. In the end, he wins his battle, even if it’s a bittersweet ending. So no, I don’t think he doesn’t work as a hero, I think he’s actually the perfect hero, since he’s constantly challanged.

Luke got impatient when Yoda was acting like an idiot which shows a lack of patience, Luke brings his weapons into the Dark Side cave when he was told he wouldn’t need them, he failed to lift the X-Wing out of the water due to his lack of belief, he left to face Vader without completing his training which resulted in the loss of his hand and almost in his capture.

I don’t necessarily think he doesn’t work as a hero either. Reason being is that everyone whether hero, villain or common folk goes through trials and tribulations before they reach their apex. Luke went through his and in ROTJ became a fully fledged Jedi Knight and in TFA Kylo Ren is going through his and as a result he will most likely become a great Dark Side warrior when it’s all said and done.

Vader’s objective wasn’t to defeat Luke, he was only trying to corner him, and Luke only manages to scratch his armor, no even wounding him.

Vader screams in agony or rage when hit. It was a glancing blow but it still effected him. And that doesn’t detract from the point that Luke shouldn’t have hit someone as skilled as Vader due to Vader’s overwhelming skill, him being completely unscathed and Luke’s lack of training in lightsaber dueling.

Kylo, on the other hand, was surely trying to kill Finn (not Rey, I get this), had enough knowledge of the Force to freeze him, push him, disarm him and kill him instantly, but nope. Supposing he was reckless as you suggested, it still makes him kind of a fake threat if he doesn’t fully fight once in the movie.

Well if you want to go there why did Vader not just choke out Luke and place him in the Carbonite chamber? The answer being because both scripts call for that not happening. At least in TFA it is shown that Kylo Ren is pompous so even when presented with a clear kill shot he drags the fight on; Vader doesn’t have such an excuse.

If you say so. He basically was the incarnation of everything a hero is supposed to be.

As Kylo is the incarnation of everything an aspiring villain (who has a bit of his old self in him) is supposed to be. Also I’m quite sure that at least in Episode VIII there will be no conflict in Kylo.

Author
Time
Post link

BmB said:

adywan said:
And this is why the prequels failed. Star Wars was a fantasy film. He developed midichlorians in a very early draft when it was more science fiction, but throw them out when it became more about myth and fantasy. The second he resurrected them as a way to try and explain the force, he threw the fantasy element out of the window.

To say that the prequels “failed” because of a piece of technobabble you did not like is a bit shallow in itself isn’t it? I guess shallow people like shallow movies.

So you are calling me a shallow person because i like TFA and don’t like the prequels? Typical of a prequel lover to have no better argument than to throw personal insults at people who don’t agree with them.

BmB said:
Abrams raped my childhood.

But, I guess with a comment like that, i can only expect you to throw the childish insults

ANH:REVISITED
ESB:REVISITED

DONATIONS TOWARDS MATERIALS FOR THE REVISITED SAGA

Author
Time
Post link

Not just childish, but extremely inappropriate.

Author
Time
Post link

Lord Haseo said:

John Doom said:
We are Rey

Actually if the audience can relate to anyone moreso it’s Finn but that’s an entirely different conversation.

I don’t remember them actually being threated by him except for Poe in the beginning and Finn in the end.

And let’s not forget Rey in the Forest towards the middle of the film.

and trying to make Kylo a threat in the end was too late by then. It was boring :\

I think him rendering Finn’s spine useless was an effective way to make him a thread but okay.

That’s right: at that point, his role has become less important, so he doesn’t need to be an actual threat. The Emperor, who’s activily tricking them into fighting against each other, is the main villain, and his ways are the major threat to Luke’s life.

His role became slightly less important and none of that excuses him not acting more like a villain. A villain who has had decades of experience being one.

Luke doesn’t fail in ESB like you say, he fights hard to overcome his weakness and obstacles, learning about the Force and facing his evil dark side. He faces Vader and is nearly defeated, but he succeds in not giving up to the dark side to save his “moral integrity”. In the end, he wins his battle, even if it’s a bittersweet ending. So no, I don’t think he doesn’t work as a hero, I think he’s actually the perfect hero, since he’s constantly challanged.

Luke got impatient when Yoda was acting like an idiot which shows a lack of patience, Luke brings his weapons into the Dark Side cave when he was told he wouldn’t need them, he failed to lift the X-Wing out of the water due to his lack of belief, he left to face Vader without completing his training which resulted in the loss of his hand and almost in his capture.

I don’t necessarily think he doesn’t work as a hero either. Reason being is that everyone whether hero, villain or common folk goes through trials and tribulations before they reach their apex. Luke went through his and in ROTJ became a fully fledged Jedi Knight and in TFA Kylo Ren is going through his and as a result he will most likely become a great Dark Side warrior when it’s all said and done.

Vader’s objective wasn’t to defeat Luke, he was only trying to corner him, and Luke only manages to scratch his armor, no even wounding him.

Vader screams in agony or rage when hit. It was a glancing blow but it still effected him. And that doesn’t detract from the point that Luke shouldn’t have hit someone as skilled as Vader due to Vader’s overwhelming skill, him being completely unscathed and Luke’s lack of training in lightsaber dueling.

Kylo, on the other hand, was surely trying to kill Finn (not Rey, I get this), had enough knowledge of the Force to freeze him, push him, disarm him and kill him instantly, but nope. Supposing he was reckless as you suggested, it still makes him kind of a fake threat if he doesn’t fully fight once in the movie.

Well if you want to go there why did Vader not just choke out Luke and place him in the Carbonite chamber? The answer being because both scripts call for that not happening. At least in TFA it is shown that Kylo Ren is pompous so even when presented with a clear kill shot he drags the fight on; Vader doesn’t have such an excuse.

If you say so. He basically was the incarnation of everything a hero is supposed to be.

As Kylo is the incarnation of everything an aspiring villain (who has a bit of his old self in him) is supposed to be. Also I’m quite sure that at least in Episode VIII there will be no conflict in Kylo.

Watching you two go back-and-forth is like watching Warbler and anyone else go back-and-forth in the politics thread. Exhausting (unless we don’t bother to read the walls of text).

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Lord Haseo said:

John Doom said:
I don’t remember them actually being threated by him except for Poe in the beginning and Finn in the end.

And let’s not forget Rey in the Forest towards the middle of the film.

Touchè, I completely forgot about that scene 😄

and trying to make Kylo a threat in the end was too late by then. It was boring :\

I think him rendering Finn’s spine useless was an effective way to make him a thread but okay.

That’s at the end of the movie, though :\

That’s right: at that point, his role has become less important, so he doesn’t need to be an actual threat. The Emperor, who’s activily tricking them into fighting against each other, is the main villain, and his ways are the major threat to Luke’s life.

His role became slightly less important and none of that excuses him not acting more like a villain. A villain who has had decades of experience being one.

What’s a villain with decades of experience? A villains is a (sometimes switchable) type of character in a story, not some kind profession 😄

Luke got impatient when Yoda was acting like an idiot which shows a lack of patience, Luke brings his weapons into the Dark Side cave when he was told he wouldn’t need them, he failed to lift the X-Wing out of the water due to his lack of belief, he left to face Vader without completing his training which resulted in the loss of his hand and almost in his capture.

And yet he was able to not give into the darkside and get back, thus winning his fight, overcoming every obstacles. That’s what a hero is supposed to do.
Had it been everything too easy to him, than THAT would’ve made him a weak hero.

I don’t think I should repeat what I just said about Kylo not working as a main villain (I don’t want to bore you 😄 ), I think I’ve stressed my stance enough. In short: Kylo can be a good villain character, but he should’ve not been the main villain. Giving a larger role to one of the other two candidates, could’ve improved TFA and potentially made it more original.

TV’s Frink said:

Watching you two go back-and-forth is like watching Warbler and anyone else go back-and-forth in the politics thread. Exhausting (unless we don’t bother to read the walls of text).

😦 I don’t like walls of text either. I’m trying my best to put only what’s strictly necessary.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

Author
Time
Post link

TV’s Frink said:

…(unless we don’t bother to read the walls of text).

Team Olie is back?

Army of Darkness: The Medieval Deadit | The Terminator - Color Regrade | The Wrong Trousers - Audio Preservation
SONIC RACES THROUGH THE GREEN FIELDS.
THE SUN RACES THROUGH A BLUE SKY FILLED WITH WHITE CLOUDS.
THE WAYS OF HIS HEART ARE MUCH LIKE THE SUN. SONIC RUNS AND RESTS; THE SUN RISES AND SETS.
DON’T GIVE UP ON THE SUN. DON’T MAKE THE SUN LAUGH AT YOU.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

John Doom said:
That’s at the end of the movie, though :\

So? It’s just another reason why he’s pretty threatening in TFA. This feat being at the end kind of diminishes the claim that Kylo goes from being super imposing in the beginning of the film to being nothing more than a weakling in the end.

What’s a villain with decades of experience? A villains is a (sometimes switchable) type of character in a story, not some kind profession 😄

Well I think him being the merciless right hand of Sidious is a profession.

And yet he was able to not give into the darkside and get back, thus winning his fight, overcoming every obstacles. That’s what a hero is supposed to do.

He won the moral victory but lost in every other facet. And other than him refusing Vader’s offer what does he overcome in the actual film?

In short: Kylo can be a good villain character, but he should’ve not been the main villain. Giving a larger role to one of the other two candidates, could’ve improved TFA and potentially made it more original.

Well if they’re giving Kylo a Luke esque character arc in which he overcomes his limitations and becomes more powerful in the end it will make Kylo’s early stumbles all the worth it. I mean I think it would be outrageous to have another force sensitive take lead over Luke because he’s not a fully realized hero in ESB. But I don’t necessarily believe in this double standard between heroes and villains. TFA could have had another villain/s but it would need to allocate time away from Kylo (or even our heroes) in order to develop this other villain/s and seeing as how Kylo will eventually be the villain Vader would be proud of it doesn’t seem worth it. Plus since it’s pretty much an absolute certainty that the Knights of Ren will actually play a role in Episode VIII your wish could be kind of granted.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Lord Haseo said:

John Doom said:
That’s at the end of the movie, though :\

So? It’s just another reason why he’s pretty threatening in TFA. This feat being at the end kind of diminishes the claim that Kylo goes from being super imposing in the beginning of the film to being nothing more than a weakling in the end.

:\ That’s not the point I was trying to do. I’m saying they should’ve showed him this threatening since the beginning, because at that point his role as the main villain was already ruined to me.

He won the moral victory but lost in every other facet. And other than him refusing Vader’s offer what does he overcome in the actual film?

-managing to “disarm” a Wampa;
-successfully leading an attack against AT-AT and using stratagems;
-destroying an entire AT-AT by himself;
-learning more about the Force (granted he didn’t learn how to fully control it);
-not be tricked by Vader in the carbon freezing chamber;
-not giving into fear;
-keeping fighting against Vader (something Kershner himself stressed in the commentary for its importance);
-being able to survive his fall and using his knowledge to call Leia for help;
Against all odds, he never gave up!

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

Author
Time
Post link

John Doom said:
That’s not the point I was trying to do. I’m saying they should’ve showed him this threatening since the beginning, because at that point his role as the main villain was ruined to my eyes.

What do you mean? The first scene he’s in he stops a blasterbolt mid air for a long time while having a conversation at the same time. Tutaminis is cool and all but that Force Ability even eclipses it completely.

Also a feat is a feat no matter how diminished someone is to your eyes. Especially when this feat is accomplished under duress.

-managing to “disarm” a Wampa;

Well I was mainly talking about in terms of lightsaber dueling and all matters of the Force but okay…and you’re right about that point.

-successfully leading an attack against AT-AT and using stratagems;

Though he successfully destroyed and AT-AT the rebellion still lost the battle.

-learning more about the Force (granted he didn’t learn how to fully control it);

Didn’t serve him that well other than not being frozen in Carbonite (which could have been avoided if Vader had just choked him out)

-not be tricked by Vader;

When did Vader try to trick him?

-not giving into fear;

You mean when facing Vader? If so then yes.

-keeping fighting against Vader (something Kershner himself stressed in the commentary for its importance);

Vader was toying with him for a majority of the duel and when he didn’t Luke got destroyed. He landed a lucky blow but was utterly decimated.

-being able to survive his fall

That’s really a giant plot convinced but can be attributed to the will of The Force but whatever lol

using his knowledge to call Leia for help;

Though it’s not established exactly how he’s able to do that it is a mighty impressive feat.

Author
Time
 (Edited)
Post link

Lord Haseo said:
What do you mean? The first scene he’s in he stops a blasterbolt mid air for a long time while having a conversation at the same time. Tutaminis is cool and all but that Force Ability even eclipses it completely.
Also a feat is a feat no matter how diminished someone is to your eyes. Especially when this feat is accomplished under duress.

You already know what I mean, though you disagree with me. No need to bore you repeating myself 😄

Though he successfully destroyed and AT-AT the rebellion still lost the battle.

It’s not his fault. His duty was to slow down the emperials to let the other escape, and he did a good job.

[…] which could have been avoided if Vader had just choked him out

Can Vader actually just choke people out? He didn’t want to actually hurt the Emperor’s prey and his potential weapon against him.

-not be tricked by Vader;

When did Vader try to trick him?

I meant pushing him into the freezer.

using his knowledge to call Leia for help;

Though it’s not established exactly how he’s able to do that it is a mighty impressive feat.

I know, I remember we were discussing this in another thread 😄

EDIT: About Chocking-Vader, it may very well be that he was also testing Luke to see if he was skilled enough to help him against th Emperor (in fact he keeps questioning or admiring his skills), so he didn’t want to end the fight too soon.

The Original Trilogy’s Timeline Reconstruction: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Implied-starting-date-of-the-Empire-from-OT-dialogue/post/786201/#TopicPost786201

Author
Time
Post link

Lord Haseo said:

BmB said:
What the two trilogies do in unison, is present a dualistic view of the force.

That’s a fancy way of saying George didn’t care about he source material which should have been adhered to when making the PT.

It’s a fancier way of saying George cares and knows more about the source material than anyone in this thread.

Author
Time
Post link

BmB said:

Lord Haseo said:

BmB said:
What the two trilogies do in unison, is present a dualistic view of the force.

That’s a fancy way of saying George didn’t care about he source material which should have been adhered to when making the PT.

It’s a fancier way of saying George cares and knows more about the source material than anyone in this thread.

Nice to see George is a member here.

Author
Time
Post link

John Doom said:
You already know what I mean, though you disagree with me. No need to bore you repeating myself 😄

No, I kind of don’t. Kylo’s abilities with exception of being able to successfully pull information from Rey’s mind and his loss in the lightsaber duel were pretty consistent throughout the film. The latter failure being the result of numerous extenuating circumstances and without those in play his victory would have been an absolute certainty.

It’s not his fault. His duty was to slow down the emperials to let the other escape, and he did a good job.

I could have sworn his duty was to stop the Walkers from destroying the power generators…which is precisely what they do once the battle turns in the Empire’s favor.

Can Vader actually just choke people out?

Why wouldn’t he be able to when people can do a rear naked choke and knock someone out by more conventional means?

He didn’t want to actually hurt the Emperor’s prey and his potential weapon against him.

Knocking Luke unconscious wouldn’t have done a thing to him that beyond well…unconsciousness.

I meant pushing him into the freezer.

Oh well technically he still fell in but got out before it was too late.

EDIT: About Chocking-Vader, it may very well be that he was also testing Luke to see if he was skilled enough to help him against th Emperor (in fact he keeps questioning or admiring his skills), so he didn’t want to end the fight too soon.

That’s fine but at first he tried to freeze him and then after that plan fell apart he continued testing him. If he really wanted to freeze Luke initially he could have still choked him out and thrown him in the chamber.

BmB said:
It’s a fancier way of saying George cares and knows more about the source material than anyone in this thread.

If George had cared a bit about the source material The Force would still be a mystical energy field, Qui-Gon Jinn wouldn’t have been Obi-Wan’s master, Anakin wouldn’t have been a douchenozzel and Padme wouldn’t have died 30 seconds after child birth.

Author
Time
Post link

TV’s Frink said:

BmB said:

Lord Haseo said:

BmB said:
What the two trilogies do in unison, is present a dualistic view of the force.

That’s a fancy way of saying George didn’t care about he source material which should have been adhered to when making the PT.

It’s a fancier way of saying George cares and knows more about the source material than anyone in this thread.

Nice to see George is a member here.

Wait, he joined this club even though we’d have him as a member?

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

Author
Time
Post link

The “dualism of the Force” is a total accident. Do you honestly think GL even considered anything like that? He just wanted to throw in his Midi-chloriens as random technobabble because it was referenced in an old rough draft. Then, he could further “prove” his “original vision” claims.

.

Author
Time
Post link

TV’s Frink said:

BmB said:

Lord Haseo said:

BmB said:
What the two trilogies do in unison, is present a dualistic view of the force.

That’s a fancy way of saying George didn’t care about he source material which should have been adhered to when making the PT.

It’s a fancier way of saying George cares and knows more about the source material than anyone in this thread.

Nice to see George is a member here.

Nah, it’s not George. It’s Katie.