Movies generally considered "bad" that you like. — Page 6

Maybe imperialscum should bump that thread and explain what in it is BS, because I wouldn’t know, and I guess he’s the expert here. 😉

Dek Rollins said:

But GL didn’t hardly have to do with Empire at all other than the idea and the early draft. His draft was revised, then that revision was rewritten several times by several people. Lucas was like, standing to the side of the helm, looking at something else.

I will reply to this as the “source” you provided did not support any of this.

Regarding screenplay, after Lucas wrote the story outline he hired Brackett to write a screenplay based on it. She finished the her draft of screenplay days before she died (she was terminally ill while writing it). Lucas was unsatisfied with the screenplay and basically had to discard it. He then wrote his own draft from scratch (while also making some storyline changes). He then hired Kasdan (who he impressed him with Raiders’ screenplay) to improve upon it. When it comes to scenes Lucas draft is pretty much what ended up in the film. However, Kasdan significantly improved the dialogue (they had several meeting to discuss things). Lucas withheld his draft from the WGA in order to ensure Brackett would get a screenplay credit, otherwise most likely Lucas and Kasdan would get the screenplay credit.

Regarding conceptual art and visual design, Lucas directly worked with McQuarrie and Johnston, who visualised his ideas.

As for principal photography, it is only reasonable that Lucas came to the set only few times. He hired Kershner to direct the principal photography so he could do other things in the meantime. If he wanted to be on the set on daily basis he could direct actors himself.

Regarding budget increase, Kershner was working slowly (many takes, forced actor to improvise scene instead of giving exact directions). The film went over-budget and over-schedule. Principal photography on ESB lasted six months compared to three months on ANH and ROTJ. So I would say this alone can be the reason for better acting in ESB as huge amount of time was spent on it.

As for editing, Lucas pretty much worked on the final cut with Hirsch (Editor) in the post-production in a normal fashion.

So I would say Lucas was creative director behind the film.

SilverWook said:

And since the author of Secret History is still a member of this forum last time I checked, tone down the nasty?

It is my honest opinion of the style/tone the book is written in.

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

And since the author of Secret History is still a member of this forum last time I checked, tone down the nasty?

It is my honest opinion of the style/tone the book is written in.

Style and tone doesn’t make the content false.

imperialscum said:

Dek Rollins said:

But GL didn’t hardly have to do with Empire at all other than the idea and the early draft. His draft was revised, then that revision was rewritten several times by several people. Lucas was like, standing to the side of the helm, looking at something else.

I will reply to this as the “source” you provided did not support any of this.

Regarding screenplay, after Lucas wrote the story outline he hired Brackett to write a screenplay based on it. She finished the her draft of screenplay days before she died (she was terminally ill while writing it). Lucas was unsatisfied with the screenplay and basically had to discard it. He then wrote his own draft from scratch (while also making some storyline changes). He then hired Kasdan (who he impressed him with Raiders’ screenplay) to improve upon it. When it comes to scenes Lucas draft is pretty much what ended up in the film. However, Kasdan significantly improved the dialogue (they had several meeting to discuss things). Lucas withheld his draft from the WGA in order to ensure Brackett would get a screenplay credit, otherwise most likely Lucas and Kasdan would get the screenplay credit.

Regarding conceptual art and visual design, Lucas directly worked with McQuarrie and Johnston, who visualised his ideas.

As for principal photography, it is only reasonable that Lucas came to the set only few times. He hired Kershner to direct the principal photography so he could do other things in the meantime. If he wanted to be on the set on daily basis he could direct actors himself.

Regarding budget increase, Kershner was working slowly (many takes, forced actor to improvise scene instead of giving exact directions). The film went over-budget and over-schedule. Principal photography on ESB lasted six months compared to three months on ANH and ROTJ. So I would say this alone can be the reason for better acting in ESB as huge amount of time was spent on it.

As for editing, Lucas pretty much worked on the final cut with Hirsch (Editor) in the post-production in a normal fashion.

So I would say Lucas was creative director behind the film.

Just out of curiosity, where does this come from. I’m not saying I don’t believe you, but a link to something or a “from [insert source]” would be nice.

Dek Rollins said:

imperialscum said:

SilverWook said:

And since the author of Secret History is still a member of this forum last time I checked, tone down the nasty?

It is my honest opinion of the style/tone the book is written in.

Style and tone doesn’t make the content false.

Though it does make it strongly questionable. And since some content contradicts the content of some other (in my opinion more reliable) sources, it seals the deal for me.

Dek Rollins said:

Just out of curiosity, where does this come from. I’m not saying I don’t believe you, but a link to something or a “from [insert source]” would be nice.

The Making of Star Wars, the Empire Strikes Back: The Definitive Story - J.W. Rinzler

Thanks. I wasn’t sure if you were quoting something or not. As I have realized in the past day or so, my off-the-top memory is really slipping into nothing. I guess typing quick replies on here without giving much thought doesn’t exactly help, though.

Sompote “Sands” Saengduenchai’s Crocodile. How can you not love a movie where this happens?

The Giant Claw is another classic. Straight faced actors against that ridiculous looking monster is one the reasons I love the genre so much, and something these modern “good” bad movies seem not to get. It would be nice if someone could debunk the myth about Jeff Morrow and the cast not knowing how terrible the puppet looked until the film’s premiere. It’s featured prominently in the trailer, so what gives?

Also, with the recent debacle about AotC’s love story, let me tell you this B-movie has a much better written and acted romance, with some real chemistry between the leads.

Tobar said:

Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow
Love everything about this film.

I love that film too.

TV’s Frink said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

imperialscum said:

TV’s Frink said:

The PT is proof that directing actors is just as important as everything else.

It is important but not nearly as important as the elements I mentioned. There are plenty of films that have rather average acting but are great because of the idea/story/screenplay (for example Terminator and Predator).

There are movies where the reverse is true.

I honestly couldn’t think of any but I would like to hear your examples. I my opinion great acting alone just cannot make a film, with average idea/story/screenplay, great. While there are countless more examples I can give for the reverse case.

You probably watch too much sci-fi/fantasy.

I am not really into fantasy but sci-fi is definitly my favourite genre (Star Wars OT, Alien and Blade Runner are my favourite films). However, I very selective even when it comes for sci-fi (not really into Star Trek). On the other hand, there are films I love from other genres (for example crime/detective films like LA Confidential, Chinatown and Casino) but again I am very selective.

Tobar said:

John Carter
Everyone had it in for this movie long before it came out. Dunno why, it was a fun romp. It took some liberties with the source material but I think they stayed true to the spirit of it. Sad that there’ll never be a sequel.

Yeah, I could never quite put my finger on why I didn’t like it. I watched it about 2 or 3 times with a friend of mine who loves it and kept begging me to give it another chance. So I did and, looking back, it should’ve been totally satisfying for me. It’s a seemingly fun sci-fi/adventure romp and it just never did anything for me.

I know nothing about the source material so I know it isn’t that.

I also enjoyed John Carter , a fanedit could easily make it much better.

I liked the Lone Ranger as well, I don’t see what’s so bad about it other than the fact that it’s pretty much another Pirates movie except with a western setting.

TV’s Frink said:

Smithers said:

I also enjoyed John Carter , a fanedit could easily make it much better.

http://www.fanedit.org/ifdb/component/content/article/79-fanedit-listings/fanfix/1030-john-carter-of-mars

Have not seen it, cannot vouch for it.

That looks pretty cool! I’ll check it out