Info Wanted: The best audio, and differences between the many audio tracks available?

It depends on your priorities. For Star Wars, the most “authentic” tracks are the 77 theatrical ones. 77 mono is probably what most people heard in theatres, but it’s the worst audio quality (recording of OTA broadcast, and academy mono wasn’t so hot to begin with). Stereo and 70mm are very slightly different content-wise (but not so most people would notice), and both sound great (lossless from Laserdisc, 70mm also uses some Blu-ray elements). For a stereo system, it’s safest to recommend a stereo track, as downmixing six channels can muddy things up a bit.

Then comes the 85 mix. A lot of people like this because it’s the home video mix most were used to in the VHS glory days – and because it’s a sort of mashup of the mono and surround mixes, it’s made up of all-authentic mixes, kind of a best of both worlds. It has great channel separation and no dynamics to speak of, but the audio quality is also great (lossless from Laserdisc).

The 93 mix is far from a crowd pleaser. While the audio quality is top-notch, authenticity goes out the window, as non-theatrical (and thoroughly unnecessary) elements have been added to the mix. It’s what (some) Star Wars fans hated before there were Special Editions. It’s also lossless from Laserdisc. I think it’s inevitable that any official OOT release would have this g****mn mix as the only audio option, which is why I made the comment you referred to earlier.

For Empire, the 1980 stereo mix and six-channel mixes on Despecialized are content-identical. There was a 70mm six-channel mix, but this isn’t it, and there aren’t any good recordings of it, and it went with a different video cut anyway. They both sound great (80 stereo and six-channel), lossless from Laserdisc, yadda yadda. The 1993 mix also sounds very good but is flawed, as it’s missing a sound effect during the snowspeeder crash. The 16mm mono mix is a recent discovery, sounds like crud, but is really interesting, and authentic.

For Jedi, all mixes are content-identical, and all sound very good. I think the 93 stereo might sound a little better than 80 stereo, but they are both lossless from Laserdisc, you know the drill.

Hopefully my repeated mentions of Laserdisc let joefavs know where the lossless sources come from–high-quality lossless audio for home video actually predates DVDs by quite a bit. Star Wars Laserdiscs released before 1985 have the 77 mix, between 1985 and 1993 have the 85 mix, and after 1993 have the 93 mix. Some Laserdisc audio was analogue, but we actually have digital captures of all of these (not sure which ones Despecialized uses, except 77 stereo is definitely a digital capture, because it was so hard to find digital audio on a pre-85 Laserdisc that we made a big deal about it when we found one).

For me? I always listen to the 6-channel mixes, and the downmixing doesn’t really make that much difference on stereo setups IMO, so I’d still listen to them there.

Since we all have them available now the best result is usually to try each one and see which you prefer and what sounds best on your setup.
For me I’ve become a huge fan of the mono mix despite having many of the stereo differences ingrained in my memory forever. The 85 track is great and adds the IMO essential tractor beam line back.
And of course the 97SE mix is outstanding too.
I love the mono ESB track. It has a number of things that popped up in the SE mix and sounds exceptional for single channel audio. Otherwise the others sound virtually identical for the most part. ROTJ is similar.
The 97SE mixes are great at introducing the films into the modern six channel layout without losing their original identity. The 2.0 matrix PCM actually sounds even closer due to being similar to the original general release format.

Nothing that isn’t an LD has decent audio. VHS had some good issues but you need a great deck. All the DVDs are **** in sound quality and the continual remixing to 6.1 tracks become continually worse and worse with lessening degrees of fidelity.

One question: how is the 85 mix different to the 77 stereo exactly in terms of the dynamic range? I know everybody says the dr is different but are try just referring to a narrowing of sound field for home viewing?
And did we ever find a difference in the 85 tracks for ESB and ROTJ?

Check this thread for dialogue differences:
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Definitive-tractor-beam-Close-the-blast-doors-Blast-it-Biggs-Wedge-you-dont-taste-very-good-Noooooo-Preservation-Guide/id/13428

I’m not sure it includes the ESB mono mix because that was a somewhat recent discovery.

77 has a decent amount of dynamic range, 85 has very little, it’s your standard “near field” home video remix of the time. And actually IIRC the 85 has a wider sound stage than any other mix, I’m not sure why.

There’s been speculation about an 85 mix for ESB and ROTJ, but the consensus among the experts (not me, hairy_hen and folks) are that there wasn’t one. The slight variations in sound quality from release to release more than account for the differences on 85 soundtracks for ESB and ROTJ without anyone having had to make a new mix. So, all ESB soundtracks prior to 93 are the 80 mix, and all ROTJ soundtracks prior to 93 are the 83 mix.

No, we (meaning, people at OT.com) have lossless versions (DTS-MA, FLAC, whatever) of those tracks, but I guess either Harmy opted not to use them for space reasons or he didn’t have easy access to the lossless versions at the time he finalized 2.5. There’s always new audio captures being made – yes, off 30-plus-year old Japanese media we buy on eBay. AC3 and DTS are both lossy, unless you’re talking DTS-MA.

GroovyLord said:
While we’re talking, could you expand more on why you hate the 93 version? Just curious. Do any of the added effects stand out as particularly bad etc?

I can’t remember all of the differences, but the one that stands out the most to me is the sound of shattering glass as Luke/Han/Chewie destroy the sensors/cameras in the detention block. I hate that sound (also hate the sound of Lando destroying the core of the 2nd Death Star!).

Yeah, it’s multiple things. I probably dislike the shattering glass mostly because when you’re seen a movie around one gazillion times, and there’s never been shattering glass on any of the mixes, then suddenly one day there is, there’s pretty much no way to keep your brain from saying this is wrong, they screwed something up, stop watching this movie and put in the one with the right soundtrack. Plus, you know, there’s the complete unnecessariness of adding the shattering glass sound that I can’t ignore either. As for the inclusion of the mono mix lines, I also favor the original multichannel mixes because they don’t have them. The tractor beam line, for example, sounds like he’s off saying it in a broom closet instead of on the same set he says all his other lines. The line itself it fine, it just… doesn’t blend for me, even on the mono mix. Probably in the minority on that one, but this stuff is pretty subjective at some point.

http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-sound-mixes/id/15294

CatBus said:

The tractor beam line, for example, sounds like he’s off saying it in a broom closet instead of on the same set he says all his other lines. The line itself it fine, it just… doesn’t blend for me, even on the mono mix. Probably in the minority on that one, but this stuff is pretty subjective at some point.

I guess it wasn’t my imagination. According to the info at the link Moth3r provided, “according to Anthony Daniels, C3PO’s tractor beam line was recorded long after filming had finished, on his own in a broom cupboard in London”.

Here’s an awesome video Space Hunter M made comparing the Dolby and Mono mixes:

Space Hunter M said:

Not really a “find”, since I made it, but I put together a very basic video of all of the major differences between the Dolby/Mono mixes of the original film since the Starkiller Guide doesn’t function properly anymore and was missing quite a few bits: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeXpcYcZNDw

CatBus said:

The tractor beam line, for example, sounds like he’s off saying it in a broom closet instead of on the same set he says all his other lines.

I agree, especially after reading your later statement. The line just doesn’t sound right in the scene, nor is it necessary.

Well, Han’s “even I get boarded sometimes, do you think I had a choice?” line has the same problem, more or less, but the super-close-up camera angle at that moment kinda makes the different acoustics more plausible.

I think the tractor beam line is well done for how quickly it was added and is absolutely essential so that the scene doesn’t feel empty. Without it everyone stares at a monitor, and after an uncomfortable pause Obi-wan magically knows how to disable the tractor beam.

Going back and forth between the 77 stereo and 85 mix shows the range difference. The remix loses the high end detailing and slight bit of what is almost like tape hiss in favor of a more robust smaller range because home systems of the day couldn’t reproduce much further. It sounds slightly boxes in when going back and forth but not bad at all.