Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 196

joefavs said:

I’m also seeing that Adam Driver let it slip on Howard Stern that he’s signed on for three films. I never thought Kylo was going to die in TFA anyway, but this looks like confirmation. Of course, I expect that shot list probably says the same, but I’m not reading that. We’re only two weeks out, I’m drawing the line here.

Thanks for the head’s up about Driver being on Stern’s show. I need to check that out. I had heard some fans speculate that Kylo would die because “some baddie has to die”. I don’t think any of the main “baddies” will die in this one.

joefavs said:

Hux or Phasma biting the dust wouldn’t surprise me, but Kylo and Snoke are definitely safe.

From the sound of it, Phasma doesn’t do a whole lot in this movie, so I suspect she’ll be back.

Just listened to the Adam Driver/Howard Stern interview and it’s a really good, fun interview.

Also, Rolling Stone just posted there Behind-The-Scenes cover story about TFA:

http://www.rollingstone.com/movies/features/star-wars-strikes-back-behind-the-scenes-of-the-biggest-movie-of-the-year-20151202

ray_afraid said:

timdiggerm said:
Bad news: Still opens with a lightaber floating in spaaaaaaace

Ugh… that’s such a stupid concept. Surely it can’t be true. Opening with something that throws reality so far out the window doesn’t set a good tone…

Can either of you or somebody explain what exactly is wrong with having a lightsaber/hand in space? In a sci-fi/fantasy universe, where there is the Force, sound in space, and multiple other laws of physics being defied (according to our world)… to me, a hand floating in space doesn’t throw reality out the window any more so. I’m guessing some think it’d surely evaporate when entering the atmosphere, or something? How do we know for certain it would or wouldn’t? It could also very well be a mechanical hand (where any remaining synthetic flesh may melt away) or maybe it’s encapsulated in something - we don’t know any details. So I do not understand how there’s a predetermined disgust in this concept when we haven’t seen how it plays out… if it’s even true. I’m open to it and will let the story tell me what’s going on.

Reading practically anything I can get my fingers on these days SW related. Found this article to be very satisfying, just as a film fan, to know that Abrams is aiming so high with his approach to TFA.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/theplaylist/jj-abrams-cites-influence-of-terrence-malick-john-ford-and-akira-kurosawa-on-star-wars-the-force-awakens-20151128

Before he started The Force Awakens, Abrams watched some movies. No, not those ones, Other ones. He looked at “the confidence” of John Ford Westerns. He took in the “unbelievable scene choreography and composition” of Kurosawa’s High and Low. And he studied “the powerful stillness” of Terrence Malick. “It’s not something I would normally have thought of coming to Star Wars,” he says. The spare visual style of Ford, Kurosawa and Malick points to a key mandate for Abrams’ approach to Episode VII: the distinctive less-is-more quality of the originals.

I’m really struck by the Malick influence that is mentioned. I’m pleased to hear that that is a goal of Abrams’. As has been noted many places, I’m really inspired by just specific interludes in the trailers; specifically the Tie Fighters flying in with the sun behind them, ala “Apocalypse Now” with the helicopter attack on the village.

Star Wars hasn’t exactly represented “high art” for several decades but I feel that with TFA and its sequels, we might get back to that. And that alone is enough to make me giddy!

😃

I can’t help but find this picture amusing.
He’s just sitting there in his comfy chair chatting with Vader’s charred mask.

Also I’m not quite sure what going on in this picture, but Rey is lot looking impressed with Han’s blaster.
http://assets.rollingstone.com/assets/2015/media/218477/_original/1449002969/1035x690-EP7_IA_121544_R.jpg

joefavs said:

.Mac. said:

ray_afraid said:

timdiggerm said:
Bad news: Still opens with a lightaber floating in spaaaaaaace

Ugh… that’s such a stupid concept. Surely it can’t be true. Opening with something that throws reality so far out the window doesn’t set a good tone…

Can either of you or somebody explain what exactly is wrong with having a lightsaber/hand in space? In a sci-fi/fantasy universe, where there is the Force, sound in space, and multiple other laws of physics being defied (according to our world)… to me, a hand floating in space doesn’t throw reality out the window any more so. I’m guessing some think it’d surely evaporate when entering the atmosphere, or something? How do we know for certain it would or wouldn’t? It could also very well be a mechanical hand (where any remaining synthetic flesh may melt away) or maybe it’s encapsulated in something - we don’t know any details. So I do not understand how there’s a predetermined disgust in this concept when we haven’t seen how it plays out… if it’s even true. I’m open to it and will let the story tell me what’s going on.

My problems with it are A.) the six previous movies have opened with a spaceship sailing past, and breaking that pattern by showing literally anything else is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and B.) we see stuff burning up when entering the atmosphere in ROTS, so even if Star Wars does ignore some real-world physical laws, it’s established that it doesn’t ignore that particular one.

You know, although that’s true in a certain sense, really ANH opens with a planet.

timdiggerm said:

joefavs said:

.Mac. said:

ray_afraid said:

timdiggerm said:
Bad news: Still opens with a lightaber floating in spaaaaaaace

Ugh… that’s such a stupid concept. Surely it can’t be true. Opening with something that throws reality so far out the window doesn’t set a good tone…

Can either of you or somebody explain what exactly is wrong with having a lightsaber/hand in space? In a sci-fi/fantasy universe, where there is the Force, sound in space, and multiple other laws of physics being defied (according to our world)… to me, a hand floating in space doesn’t throw reality out the window any more so. I’m guessing some think it’d surely evaporate when entering the atmosphere, or something? How do we know for certain it would or wouldn’t? It could also very well be a mechanical hand (where any remaining synthetic flesh may melt away) or maybe it’s encapsulated in something - we don’t know any details. So I do not understand how there’s a predetermined disgust in this concept when we haven’t seen how it plays out… if it’s even true. I’m open to it and will let the story tell me what’s going on.

My problems with it are A.) the six previous movies have opened with a spaceship sailing past, and breaking that pattern by showing literally anything else is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth, and B.) we see stuff burning up when entering the atmosphere in ROTS, so even if Star Wars does ignore some real-world physical laws, it’s established that it doesn’t ignore that particular one.

You know, although that’s true in a certain sense, really ANH opens with a planet.

Based on what we’ve seen/read so far about the plot it seems very likely that the film will open with Poe landing his X-wing on Jakku.

(Also didn’t we get a confirmation somewhere recently that Anakin’s lightsaber had been recovered from the lower-levels of Cloud City by some maintenance people or something similar? So why would it be floating through space? Also how the heck could it get half the way across the galaxy from Bespin to Jakku?)

joefavs said:

.Mac. said:

ray_afraid said:

timdiggerm said:
Bad news: Still opens with a lightaber floating in spaaaaaaace

Ugh… that’s such a stupid concept. Surely it can’t be true. Opening with something that throws reality so far out the window doesn’t set a good tone…

Can either of you or somebody explain what exactly is wrong with having a lightsaber/hand in space? In a sci-fi/fantasy universe, where there is the Force, sound in space, and multiple other laws of physics being defied (according to our world)… to me, a hand floating in space doesn’t throw reality out the window any more so. I’m guessing some think it’d surely evaporate when entering the atmosphere, or something? How do we know for certain it would or wouldn’t? It could also very well be a mechanical hand (where any remaining synthetic flesh may melt away) or maybe it’s encapsulated in something - we don’t know any details. So I do not understand how there’s a predetermined disgust in this concept when we haven’t seen how it plays out… if it’s even true. I’m open to it and will let the story tell me what’s going on.

My problems with it are A.) the six previous movies have opened with a spaceship sailing past, and breaking that pattern by showing literally anything else is going to leave a bad taste in my mouth

I can understand that. It comes down to personal preference really. EpII was the first to show a pan-up after the crawl - some didn’t like it and others were fine with it (personally, I didn’t mind it). Or EpI was the first film to not feature a Star Destroyer somewhere in the establishing shot, as the predecessors always had. So I do agree there are times when certain patterns should be kept (the crawl should always be in yellow, not blue, for example), but other times, I don’t think it really matters and it’s okay to mix it up, such as having a non-ship object going by the screen. I’d say whatever serves the story best in the establishing shot and as long as it’s handled well (pun intended).

I’m sure something we can all agree on, though, is the establishing shot must be somewhere in space after the crawl 😉

joefavs said:
B.) we see stuff burning up when entering the atmosphere in ROTS, so even if Star Wars does ignore some real-world physical laws, it’s established that it doesn’t ignore that particular one.

Correct, it has shown us that (even in ESB with the Imperial probe), but again, if it’s a mechanical hand or if it’s encapsulated in something that can withstand entering atmosphere, I don’t see a problem with it making it through.

It is a moot discussion as you said, lol. I’m prepared in case it does happen in the film, though 😃

ZkinandBonez said:

Based on what we’ve seen/read so far about the plot it seems very likely that the film will open with Poe landing his X-wing on Jakku.

I think that’s correct, yeah.

(Also didn’t we get a confirmation somewhere recently that Anakin’s lightsaber had been recovered from the lower-levels of Cloud City by some maintenance people or something similar? So why would it be floating through space? Also how the heck could it get half the way across the galaxy from Bespin to Jakku?)

I believe the story is that Snoke (Kylo’s boss) collected it from Cloud City (with the duel still going on overhead) and we may still see this in a Maz-and-the-Force-enabled flashback. Much later, something happened (an explosion or something) that caused the saber to fall out of Kylo Ren’s shuttle…and land on Jakku.

It’s probably nothing at all but Adam Driver appeared on the Tonight Show w/Jimmy Fallon last night and when Fallon was talking about his character he said “you play Kylo Ren” and Driver interjected “or Ren Kylo” and then Fallon made a joke about looking him up in a phone book (e.g. Ren, Kylo vs. Kylo, Ren).

I have had a long held suspicion that maybe, just maybe, Ren is Driver’s actual name. And that Kylo is just a title or a total misdirection by Abrams. I know there’s a ton of toys out there and promotional material that says “Kylo Ren” but I can’t help but thing in some way or another Abrams is messing with us (which I LOVE). I want to be surprised.

Abrams has a history of doing this with other projects. most notably the still unseen by me (I don’t dig Star Trek) Star Trek Into Darkness film where he went so far as to publicize a specific character as being “John Harrison” when in actuality the character was Khan. It’s not such a stretch to think that Abrams would do this in Star Wars.

Ren/Rey Solo twins? Kylo some sort of anagram for Skywalker/Solo? Obviously I have too much time on my hands, back to work.

TK428 said:

It’s probably nothing at all but Adam Driver appeared on the Tonight Show w/Jimmy Fallon last night and when Fallon was talking about his character he said “you play Kylo Ren” and Driver interjected “or Ren Kylo” and then Fallon made a joke about looking him up in a phone book (e.g. Ren, Kylo vs. Kylo, Ren).

I have had a long held suspicion that maybe, just maybe, Ren is Driver’s actual name. And that Kylo is just a title or a total misdirection by Abrams. I know there’s a ton of toys out there and promotional material that says “Kylo Ren” but I can’t help but thing in some way or another Abrams is messing with us (which I LOVE). I want to be surprised.

Abrams has a history of doing this with other projects. most notably the still unseen by me (I don’t dig Star Trek) Star Trek Into Darkness film where he went so far as to publicize a specific character as being “John Harrison” when in actuality the character was Khan. It’s not such a stretch to think that Abrams would do this in Star Wars.

Ren/Rey Solo twins? Kylo some sort of anagram for Skywalker/Solo? Obviously I have too much time on my hands, back to work.

Given that he’s Kylo Ren because he joined The Knights of Ren, the potential switcheroo is just a question of if the title should be a prefix (as with “Darth”) or a suffix (as with, apparently, “Ren”).

timdiggerm said:

TK428 said:

It’s probably nothing at all but Adam Driver appeared on the Tonight Show w/Jimmy Fallon last night and when Fallon was talking about his character he said “you play Kylo Ren” and Driver interjected “or Ren Kylo” and then Fallon made a joke about looking him up in a phone book (e.g. Ren, Kylo vs. Kylo, Ren).

I have had a long held suspicion that maybe, just maybe, Ren is Driver’s actual name. And that Kylo is just a title or a total misdirection by Abrams. I know there’s a ton of toys out there and promotional material that says “Kylo Ren” but I can’t help but thing in some way or another Abrams is messing with us (which I LOVE). I want to be surprised.

Abrams has a history of doing this with other projects. most notably the still unseen by me (I don’t dig Star Trek) Star Trek Into Darkness film where he went so far as to publicize a specific character as being “John Harrison” when in actuality the character was Khan. It’s not such a stretch to think that Abrams would do this in Star Wars.

Ren/Rey Solo twins? Kylo some sort of anagram for Skywalker/Solo? Obviously I have too much time on my hands, back to work.

Given that he’s Kylo Ren because he joined The Knights of Ren, the potential switcheroo is just a question of if the title should be a prefix (as with “Darth”) or a suffix (as with, apparently, “Ren”).

Right. But what if the ‘Knights of Ren’ title is a complete ruse?

Wow, TFA hasn’t even been released yet and the new EU is already shaping up to be just as bat-shit crazy and retconning as the old one;
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/swnn-review-tales-from-a-galaxy-far-far-away-aliens-pt-2.html
http://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2015/12/swnn-review-tales-from-a-galaxy-far-far-away-aliens-pt-1.html

I’m especially amused by how every new alien is retconned to belong to some PT or Clone Wars alien that they sort of resemble. The guy in read clothes and a mask in Maz Kanata’s castle is apparently a Kaleesh (the same species as general Grevious), Zuvio is a Kyuzo (despite sharing no trait other than the hat), and Bobbajo is somewhat amusingly reffered to as a “Nu-Cosian” because he only vaguely resemble the Cosians from the Clone Wars.

Not that I really had it to begin with, but I’m losing any hope that the new EU would manage to add anything clever to Star Wars.
Of course I highly doubt that Abrams or Kasdan have put any effort into anything lore-related, other than the OT films of course, so I’m just going to ignore all this retcnonning and enjoy all the new alien designs as they appear in the new films.