Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 152

Akton said:

ZkinandBonez said:

Also people tend to forget that Luke's black outfit in ROTJ was supposed to represent his brush with the dark side. Of course him actually tuning evil was eventually written out, but Luke did have his dark side moment while fighting Vader in the end. 
As far as the lore is concerned I can't remember having ever read that it was supposed to be an actual Jedi outfit. I'm pretty sure it was just something he put together before meeting Jabba (even the pre-PT EU added a practical explanation for the outfit.)
And of course when we see Anakin (Sebastian Shaw) at the end of ROTJ he's wearing the same moisture farmer outfit that Obi-Wan wore in ANH. Not to mention that Yoda more or less wears the same outfit. I don't actually now if this is a pre- or post-PT thing, but the reasoning behind the Jedi both in the OT and PT wearing moisture farmer outfits, or rather just a casual outfit common among colonists and farmers, were because they were supposed to be ascetics; monks more or less. Hence the humble outfits.
And Lucas was quite adamant back in the pre-PT days that the Jedi order was basically just warrior Buddhist monks, even comparing them to Yogis once. 

 I certainly took Luke's ROTJ outfit as a "Jedi uniform," and, given the context of the film, it seems were were meant to. Yes, he resembles Vader, and there is thematic significance to that. But I always saw the primary, in-universe reason for that similarity being the simple fact that Vader was once a Jedi too; thus he continued to dress more or less like a Jedi, and continued to carry and use what Palpy disparagingly referred to as "a Jedi's weapon." I mean, why else would Luke make his first public appearance as a Jedi (that's how he introduced himself to Jabba) dressed in such a strikingly distinctive uniform? The fact that the outfit strongly resembles a priest's cassock also cemented the idea (in my mind at least) that this was indeed a "Jedi uniform."

As to Anakin's ghost wearing Tatooinian robes - well, Anakin was a Tatooinian. So, there's that.

Yoda's garb was fairly different from Anakin / Obi-Wan's - much more generic hobo / hermit clothing - very rudimentary. Also, I'm of the opinion that Yoda - being a Jedi master (not a Jedi Knight) - would not have worn the militaristic uniform of a Jedi Knight, nor would he have ever carried a lightsaber. That was also Lucas' opinion back in the OT days, as evidenced by the Rinzler books.

Well, the EU certainly seems to have agreed with your militaristic uniform idea:

The Dark Horse comics of the early 90's seems to have interpreted Darth Vader's outfit, minus the robotic parts, as having been a Jedi uniform. 

However the Jedis couldn't exactly have walked around in full armour all the time, and who knows what they were originally supposed to have worn. Also I'm not sure if I buy the whole thing about Anakin having been born on Tatooine, hence the outfit on his ghost. Even the PT had the Jedi's wear different uniforms, and even express different ideologies through clothing, so I don't see why the pre-PT lore couldn't have gone for a similar thing. 
Also it kind of makes sense for the not-quite-a-Jedi-yet Luke, and Darth Vader to wear black uniforms, while the Jedi masters; Yoda and Obi-Wan wears simple garbs. Anakin of course turning to the good side towards the end could also explain why he's wearing a ascetic outfit as a spirit. And of course by the time of TFA Luke would have become a master, so it only makes sense he's be out of his black uniform. He's also, according to the rumours, hiding on some planet in deep meditation, trying hide is destructive force powers form the world around him. That's quite an ascetic thing to do, and far away from the brash, close to turning to the dark-side young farm-boy from the OT. All the OT film had Luke gradually mature from a cocky and adventurous farm-boy to a more mature, and conflicted Jedi knight. It only makes sense that he 30 years later would have more of a Jedi master vibe to him. Abrams even pointed out that a lot of the film would focus on the question; "who is Luke Skywalker," and this is a very logical next step in his character development.

darklordoftech said:

No matter what Luke's ROTJ clothing was or wasn't meant to be, what Obi-Wan wears in Star Wars (1977) definitely wasn't meant to be a Jedi uniform. What Obi-Wan wears in Star Wars (1977) isn't what commoners across the galaxy wear, it's just what Tatooine moisture farmers wear. Look at the commoners on other planets if you don't believe me.

 Well, here's what a moisture farmer on Aduba 3 looked like in a comic from late 1977:

Now I realize that these comics have a somewhat dubious canon, but it goes to show just what SW lore was as early as in 1977. This was also the only character I could find a proper picture of, but the other Aduba-3 farmer pretty much wear the same outfit as Owen Lars did.

Also, here's what the old Jedi knight Don-Wan Kihotay (terrible name btw) looked like in the same comic:

It's kind of cheap, and lazy. Or perhaps this is what Lucas always intended it to be, I don't know. But it's not exactly like Abrams is screwing over the lore by giving Luke a Ben Kenobi-style robe rather than a black uniform. You can really stretch the lore any way you want with this, and the new Luke outfit is consistent with what we have seen in both trilogies so far, as well as some of the EU.
I'm personally just going to go with it. The black outfit would have been cool, but the new white one works just as fine. I think anyway.

ZkinandBonez said:

Also I'm not sure if I buy the whole thing about Anakin having been born on Tatooine, hence the outfit on his ghost. Even the PT had the Jedi's wear different uniforms, and even express different ideologies through clothing, so I don't see why the pre-PT lore couldn't have gone for a similar thing. 

The lack of discipline with respect to uniforms among the Jedi is one of the many things I disliked about what Lucas did to them in the PT. The fact that the Jedi are explicitly called "knights" should have informed their cinematic depiction a bit more. Knights are organized, disciplined, and militaristic - and even if the analogy to monks is made, monastic orders (be they Catholic, Orthodox, or Buddhist) are known for wearing a single, distinctive garb, to represent a giving up of individuality (in direct contrast to what Lucas came up with in the PT).

The "wear what you want" thing is reflective of the general problem with the Jedi in the PT, summed up nicely by Mike Stoklasa as "disorganized hippies running a war."

Anakin's force ghost robes obviously needed to convey visually (and in very little time) - that he was no longer evil. thus he could not be wearing the color he wore as Vader. Making him look just like Obi-Wan was the most effective and expedient visual shorthand they could come up with. The most reasonable in-universe explanation still strikes me as being that it is a Tatooinian garb - Obi-Wan spent most of his later life there, and Anakin (whether or not he was born there) certainly lived there at the time he met Obi-Wan and went off with him on his damn fool idealistic crusade. 

And as to Luke's TFA uniform - it's not a carbon copy of the PT moisture farmer robes, so I'm happy about that. The fact that he's a Jedi Master now makes me okay with him having moved beyond the uniform of a Jedi Knight. also the fact that he's the last of the Old Order / First of the New means he's earned the right to wear something unique - with the color white being perhaps a repudiation of the Jedi Order of Old.

SilverWook said:

It's debatable whether Kihotay was just a crazy old guy who admired the Jedi, and found a lost lightsaber though. His name is a lot better than some prequel characters I won't name. ;)

He did don some armor when going into battle.

The Obi Wan flashback story from issue #24, set during the Old Republic era gives us a different outfit, which ties in nicely with Luke's ROTJ look.

 Thanks for posting that - I was thinking of that issue as I was writing my last post.

SilverWook said:

It's debatable whether Kihotay was just a crazy old guy who admired the Jedi, and found a lost lightsaber though. His name is a lot better than some prequel characters I won't name. ;)

He did don some armor when going into battle.

The Obi Wan flashback story from issue #24, set during the Old Republic era gives us a different outfit, which ties in nicely with Luke's ROTJ look.

All true, I'm just saying that if you ignore the PT lore, you can really get away with anything. The early pre-PT EU is a great example of that. 

I also think it's pretty amazing that they predicted Luke's black outfit several years before ROTJ. I doubt that it's anything but a coincidence, but it's still pretty interesting.
The Marvel SW comic were had some pretty wacky interpretations of the SW lore anyway.

(As for Kihotay having a better name than the PT character, I'm not to sure if I agree with that. At least the PT never made any blatant references to already existing, non SW characters. I mean Grevious, Plegeuis and Tyrannus is some pretty lazy writing, but it's a tad better than making a blatant reference to Don Quixote. Then again, I don't think "Eight for Aduba-3" was ever meant to be taken seriously, so I don't really mind.)  

^Looks like the Punisher's  dad.

SilverWook said:

If Lucas was paying enough attention at the time to give my favorite meat eating rabbit trouble, he or an assistant could have sent notes about Jedi garb.

Given that the Marvel guys weren't able to do anything with Vader for a while, (after the movie adaptation, he didn't reappear until issue 21) I imagine an Obi Wan story had to be run by someone at Lucasfilm?

It's possible, but of course Lucas would never admit that nowadays. 

But then you have to wonder, is Kihotay's armour and robes also pre-PT canon then, or just Obi-Wan's black uniform?