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Episode VII: The Force Awakens - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 38

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If all those rumors are true, it looks like instead of a glorious restoration of the Republic in the galaxy, the general treatment follows something of the history of western civilization, this trilogy being the Middle Ages of the star wars universe.

A disorganized "federative" (feudal) system where the [Western roman empire] Empire was beaten by the rebels, and a fully alive Empire in the remnant rim [Eastern roman empire]. All glimpse of old "pagan" religions, both Sith and Jedi, banned and replaced by something new; technological stasis in the upper social spheres, while involution in the lower ones, the everlasting issue of the limit between the Empire and this "federation"...etc. Crusades? Qu Ran rising?

Just a thought tho; I'm not sure if that's a treatment i would be interested to watch, but why else would the characters be amazed at a lightsaber, Luke a fugitive, the Empire fully alive and well (chrome troopers are quite a luxury).

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No one has seen a lightsaber really since Ep3

All those who saw the fight on the Death Star 1 - Dead

No one saw a lighsaber in ESB apart from Luke & Vader

All those who saw a Lighsaber in Jedi - Dead

Apart from our 'Heroes', no one in the galaxy has really seen a lighsaber in battle since the Jedi were in power....A long time ago!

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HotRod said:

No one saw a lighsaber in ESB apart from Luke & Vader

Nah, you mean to tell me with something as perfect for cutting through stuff, let alone snow and ice, Luke didn't once use his lightsaber to help carve out the insides for Echo Base?? :D

But seriously, those were excellent and very interesting finds: 

Somebody making good use of fallen Imperial remnants; people being in awe of a gleaming sword of light (in contrast to the Cantina in IV, where the aliens there were just "meh.."); the alien who helps Daisy's character (possibly one of Serkis' characters?); a new and updated droid (gives R2 some competition and a chance to prove he "still has it"); Sydow's character who can relate to the past (with the injuries he sustained, a former Imperial officer who is now neutral would be interesting).

I can definitely see all of those happening. I really hope so.

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Luke also used a lightsaber on Endor, but the only witness died... or so we know.... there's a lot of hiding places on Endor. ;-)  If Boba Fett survived (and according to Lucas, he did), he saw Luke with a lightsaber as well.

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Assuming the "Dark Luke" rumour is true, it might not be the real Luke; it could be a shape-changer who's assumed his form.

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timdiggerm said:

Well, and the denizens of a disreputable bar in a spaceport of an Outer Rim planet controlled by the Hutts.

 Who's going to believe a bunch of drunken spacers though? And the bartender doesn't remember or care, so long as you don't use blasters. ;)

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unamochilla2 said:

Luke also used a lightsaber on Endor, but the only witness died... or so we know.... there's a lot of hiding places on Endor. ;-)  If Boba Fett survived (and according to Lucas, he did), he saw Luke with a lightsaber as well.

 An Ewok did witness Luke taking out that speeder bike. Unfortunately, it was Corpsey. ;)

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DuracellEnergizer said:

Assuming the "Dark Luke" rumour is true, it might not be the real Luke; it could be a shape-changer who's assumed his form.

 Or Luke could be possessed by the Force ghost of Palpatine, though that doesn't explain why he would be holding Vader's helmet reverently.

If they try to tie this strongly to Star Wars Rebels, we could be seeing a shapeshifter who was one of the inquisitors.

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HotRod said:

No one has seen a lightsaber really since Ep3

All those who saw the fight on the Death Star 1 - Dead

No one saw a lighsaber in ESB apart from Luke & Vader

All those who saw a Lighsaber in Jedi - Dead

Apart from our 'Heroes', no one in the galaxy has really seen a lighsaber in battle since the Jedi were in power....A long time ago!

 Presumably the cleaning lady who found Luke's Lightsaber (Still attached to his severed hand) at the bottom of Bespin has seen a Lightsaber.

Plus Boba Fett probably told loads of people about Luke's sweet new Green Saber after he climbed out of the Sarlacc pit ;-)

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Ryan McAvoy said: Boba Fett probably told loads of people about Luke's sweet new Green Saber after he climbed out of the Sarlacc pit ;-)

I'd love to see that on Robot Chicken.

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Mithrandir said:

If all those rumors are true, it looks like instead of a glorious restoration of the Republic in the galaxy, the general treatment follows something of the history of western civilization, this trilogy being the Middle Ages of the star wars universe.

A disorganized "federative" (feudal) system where the [Western roman empire] Empire was beaten by the rebels, and a fully alive Empire in the remnant rim [Eastern roman empire]. All glimpse of old "pagan" religions, both Sith and Jedi, banned and replaced by something new; technological stasis in the upper social spheres, while involution in the lower ones, the everlasting issue of the limit between the Empire and this "federation"...etc. Crusades? Qu Ran rising?

Just a thought tho; I'm not sure if that's a treatment i would be interested to watch, but why else would the characters be amazed at a lightsaber, Luke a fugitive, the Empire fully alive and well (chrome troopers are quite a luxury).

On the Republic: I don't want to see one in VII. We saw a Republic in the prequels, and we all know how that turned out.

On Jedi and Sith being "pagan" religions: Star Wars (1977) made them seem like something from biblical times. I'd love to see a galaxy that's moved past them. (Interestingly, early screenplays described the Sith as a group of bounty hunters hired by The Emperor, not an ancient conspiracy that The Emperor is part of).

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I agree on the Republic, not a very interesting take on the trilogy. I think that a trilogy that states that things can get even "worse" in terms of organisation/anarchy after the fall of the Empire could be a mature new insight to the general situation of the star wars universe.

Surely democracy is better than any dictatorship, but since Thomas Hobbes it can be argued than a strong central administration could be better than having no government or administration at all; if the trilogy has such an approach, a "feudal" galaxy, full of local gangsters and tribal leaders feels plausible for the "taste" of the fans feeling like star wars (at least if the taste of the fans can be asimilated to those 4 points to make a great star wars movie that hangs around the internet), while making room for new stories, in a Universe that instead of solving the social issues created by the Empire, suffers from its consequences in a worse way, just as the early middle ages were an intensification of some processes that started during the late antiquity.

Or even the local oligarchies formed in 1990s Russia, when communist-party leaders migrated to capitalism and became multimillonaires in economic control of the regions they ruled before.

Republic - Empire - Middle Ages. Could be.

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 (Edited)

timdiggerm said:

Oh and a one-armed wampa. I dunno how long those live.

 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wampa

Wampas were even said to possess, at least in one case, the capacity to retain long-term memory.[15] During the Rebel Alliance occupation of Hoth during the Galactic Civil War, Jedi Luke Skywalker was attacked by a wampa while patrolling the planet's ice wastes, but he escaped the creature's clutches after slicing off its arm with his lightsaber. Almost a decade later, during a return visit to Hoth, Skywalker re-encountered the same wampa whose arm he severed years before.[1] Skywalker claimed that the one-armed beast remembered both him and his lightsaber.[15]

But I dunno, I suspect the Wampa just pretended to remember Luke so things weren't awkward.

LUKE: Wampy!  Hi there!
WAMPY: Uh, hi....you...

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TV's Frink said:

timdiggerm said:

Oh and a one-armed wampa. I dunno how long those live.

 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wampa

Wampas were even said to possess, at least in one case, the capacity to retain long-term memory.[15] During the Rebel Alliance occupation of Hoth during the Galactic Civil War, Jedi Luke Skywalker was attacked by a wampa while patrolling the planet's ice wastes, but he escaped the creature's clutches after slicing off its arm with his lightsaber. Almost a decade later, during a return visit to Hoth, Skywalker re-encountered the same wampa whose arm he severed years before.[1] Skywalker claimed that the one-armed beast remembered both him and his lightsaber.[15]

But I dunno, I suspect the Wampa just pretended to remember Luke so things weren't awkward.

LUKE: Wampy!  Hi there!
WAMPY: Uh, hi....you...

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The Force and the Light Saber are to be used sparingly.  

If they fill the galaxy with magic where the Force is visibly and demonstrably present, it will lose everyone....or at least me.  

At least for the first film, I'd like them to concentrate on the Empire and the Rebels than Jedi and Sith.

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 (Edited)

TV's Frink said:

timdiggerm said:

Oh and a one-armed wampa. I dunno how long those live.

 http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wampa

Wampas were even said to possess, at least in one case, the capacity to retain long-term memory.[15] During the Rebel Alliance occupation of Hoth during the Galactic Civil War, Jedi Luke Skywalker was attacked by a wampa while patrolling the planet's ice wastes, but he escaped the creature's clutches after slicing off its arm with his lightsaber. Almost a decade later, during a return visit to Hoth, Skywalker re-encountered the same wampa whose arm he severed years before.[1] Skywalker claimed that the one-armed beast remembered both him and his lightsaber.[15]

 I just looked more closely at the links in the Wookieepedia article and noticed that "slicing off" linked to its own article, called "Cho Sun", which is "the act of cutting off an opponent's weapon arm" according to the article.* "Cutting off" links to the article on dismemberment, which also gives the examples of "[c]ho mok was the act of cutting off an opponent's limb, usually the leg. Mou kei was a variant generally forbidden by the Jedi since it involved cutting through several limbs at once."

Sometimes it's hard to take Wookieepedia seriously....

*Obi-Wan is noted to have "performed cho sun at least four times".

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timdiggerm said:

You mean it's hard to take the EU seriously?

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timdiggerm said:

You mean it's hard to take the EU seriously?

 Yes, but by extension, Wookieepedia is ridiculous because it takes the EU so seriously.

I almost LOL whenever I see the three or four line warning tags indicating an assumption of a certain path in a video game, since they're usually followed by a single line or less. And the quotes they choose... :D