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Just want to thank Oh_riginal for the review. I really helps is other fans comment...
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
ANH:R - Stronger Vader edit: *** Released *** — Page 8
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I was thinking about the Vader-Tarkin scene "Terminate her...Immediately!"
"Immediately!" sounds much much of an order, than the "Terminate her."
What if I make a cut right there? Tarkin says "Terminate her." and cut to the Falcon. That makes Tarkin make a routine order of executing a prisoner, not demanding of Vader to do it "Immediately!"
What do you think?
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I definitely think that Tarkin's lines in that scene go against the point of this edit. Another option would be to cut after Vader says "I told you she wouldn't consciously betray the rebellion," then maybe cut to a silent-but-frustrated Tarkin, if possible.
Another alternative would be to have the Imperial that reported the failure to locate the rebel base not leave immediately, and have it appear that Tarkin barks the order at him instead. This might take some effort to make happen though, through After Effects or similar means.
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oh_riginal said:
I definitely think that Tarkin's lines in that scene go against the point of this edit. Another option would be to cut after Vader says "I told you she wouldn't consciously betray the rebellion," then maybe cut to a silent-but-frustrated Tarkin, if possible.
I agree, this is the way to go if it can be done.
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Btw, I have already tried this some time ago:
http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/ANH-R-Stronger-Vader-edit/post/599176/#TopicPost599176
Test video: http://vimeo.com/51940950
But there was no feedback, except it made Bingowings laugh :)
Without a more punchy line from Vader Tarkin's silence is unintentionally funny (well I laughed... sorry).
so I scraped the change and forgot about it.
Now that I am in the finishing stages, I came back to this scene and I think that if I tweak the video idea above, it could work.
I'll will post the new tweaked video of the original cut so Tarkin remains silent, and a version ending with Tarkin just saying "Terminate her.".
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I think that works really well, its sort of like Vader is becoming more dominant
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Very clever. That works quite well indeed.
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Where were all these positive feedbacks 2 years ago when I first posted the clip... :)
Ok, given the positive comments, I will use this solution (Tarkin remains silent), and make the final tweaks to finalize the scene.
This leaves just the following scene: Tarkin says: "I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work."
But whether this makes Vader weaker, or just Tarin insecure is not so clear. Any ideas, opinions?
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Joshua_Blue said:
Where were all these positive feedbacks 2 years ago when I first posted the clip... :)
Ok, given the positive comments, I will use this solution (Tarkin remains silent), and make the final tweaks to finalize the scene.
This leaves just the following scene: Tarkin says: "I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work."
But whether this makes Vader weaker, or just Tarin insecure is not so clear. Any ideas, opinions?
As I said in my review, I do think it makes Vader a bit weaker, considering Tarkin's tone when he says "this had better work." It comes off as an "...or else" type of message to Vader, at least to me.
But I do feel this is much more debatable than "terminate her, immediately!" so if it is kept as-is, I think it could still work.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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I really like these ideas about making a 'stronger Vader' for ANH (ROTJ Vader needs help too imho).
About the current discussion, I think it works quite well removing the "Terminate her, immediately!" line.
As it is in that clip though, the only thing that feels off to me is the long awkward silence of nothingness now after Vader says "I told you she would she would never consciously betray the Rebellion". It worked before because then Tarkin would say his line; since he doesn't now, the scene needs to feel like it's "moving along" quicker.
My suggestion, either:
A) Have Vader's line pushed forward a few frames so that it feels like we aren't waiting for too long before switching to Tarkin's annoyed face.
B) Have Tarkin's movements moved forward a few frames so that he is already standing still once Vader finishes his line, then we immediately switch to his annoyed face. By doing this, the scene will also be shaved a few frames. This would require more special editing skills.
C) Or, just thought of this, insert a brief pause between Vaders's line so that now he says it as two sentences, instead of as one. Like this, "I told you. She would never consciously betray the Rebellion." Then by the time he finishes his line, we're now at the point when the camera switches to Tarkin's face.
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Mac, the for the ideas. I agree with you and I will try to shorten the break after Vader's line.
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Another way to change the timing of Vader's line would be to slow it down so that he takes longer to say it, which could be more "Vader-esque" in a way anyway. Just a thought.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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New clip:
http://speedy.sh/5x5qc/She-lied-to-us.mp4
Much better with the shorter pause.
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I have now finished editing. All that I wanted and was able to fix is done. Now only the end credits remain.
If someone could create end credits for me, I'd be very grateful. Or at least if could someone tell me the font type, so I could try to make a very basic fade in/ fade out of a couple of lines. That's actually all I need.
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Vader's line about it being, "a day long remembered" mitigate much of the threat in the line.
Perhaps you could shave the, "it had better work" or maybe you could replace Vader's over confident line with, "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" line from ROTJ suggesting that the gambit is Tarkin's which Vader and the Emperor would punish Tarkin for if it failed.
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Bingowings said:
Vader's line about it being, "a day long remembered" mitigate much of the threat in the line.
Perhaps you could shave the, "it had better work" or maybe you could replace Vader's over confident line with, "The Emperor is not as forgiving as I am" line from ROTJ suggesting that the gambit is Tarkin's which Vader and the Emperor would punish Tarkin for if it failed.
That's not a bad idea at all. It would just be a matter of making the voice quality more like ANH:R, rather than ROTJ.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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Indeed, it is a good idea. My bigger concern would actually be the music which starts before the line finishes.
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darth_ender said:
Indeed, it is a good idea. My bigger concern would actually be the music which starts before the line finishes.
If, in 5.1, the dialogue is separated entirely from the other tracks, it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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I'll see what I can do with this scene. I might just take out the 'This had better work!' line, because I would not like to re-use the lines. The problem is that camera keeps moving so maybe I'll try to go to Vader's close-up after Tarkin says 'I am taking an awful lot of risk Vader.', just to end on Vader, not on Tarkin.
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I am thinking about adding some tremolo effect to Tarkin's 'This had better work!' line, while at the same time amping up Vader's breathing. Tarkin's tone is now weaker and sort of gives the feeling Tarking is just actually beeing a bit afraid about this plan working out, without '...or else...' feeling at the end.
I'll try to play around with it a bit...if doesn't work out, I'll just leave it in or actually just cut the whole scene. We already have clues that the empire is tracking the MF, as Lea mentions it to Han.
I have tried cutting the whole line, but the scene then ends kind of abruptly you can feel something was cut, so this doesn't look promising.
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A new idea (just a test video, audio/video not perfect):
http://www.speedyshare.com/gRpvV/test3.mp4
I have moved the 'This had better work!' scene and combined it with a later scene of Tarkin and Vader
It actually looks quite ok, what do you think? How I see it now, Tarkin has doubts about Vader's tracking device idea, but we are now already orbiting the planet and Vader calmly (and over confidently) rejects the worries, as if he knew all along it was going to work...
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Joshua_Blue said:
A new idea (just a test video, audio/video not perfect):
http://www.speedyshare.com/gRpvV/test3.mp4
I have moved the 'This had better work!' scene and combined it with a later scene of Tarkin and Vader
It actually looks quite ok, what do you think? How I see it now, Tarkin has doubts about Vader's tracking device idea, but we are now already orbiting the planet and Vader calmly (and over confidently) rejects the worries, as if he knew all along it was going to work...
My only issue with it is that Tarkin is specifically referring to the tracking device when he is asking if it will work, yet they are orbiting Yavin, meaning they've already tracked the device to a set location, which would imply it DID work already, so why would Tarkin ask about the device being on the ship?
However, the two Vader/Tarkin shots do match up quite well, as if they were filmed as one scene and edited into that clip intentionally.
Maybe if the conversation were a bit more focused so that the doubt is about the system, rather than the tracking device, it might work. It could go like this:
Tarkin: "I'm taking an awful risk, Vader. This had better work."
Vader: (from ESB) "That IS the system." which then resumes back to "This will be a day long remembered..."
“Lifes a song you don’t get to rehearse, and every single verse can make it that much worse”
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Not a bad idea, I'll try that line.
Anyway, I think the scene works even without the "This is the system line", but might be even better with the suggested additional line.
If it doesn't I can still just drop it, I do not think the debate over the tracking device is crucial. As mentioned, Lea already concludes that the ease of their escape was due to being let to by the Empire.
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After considering things again, I have decided to cut the whole Tarkin/Vader tracking device/'This had better work!' dialog.
Lea already concludes that the ease of their escape was due to being let to by the Empire, and not much later we see a scene with Tarkin getting the news about orbiting a moon with the rebel base...
I am now working on adding just one line of credits for the "Stronger Vader" edit, and then I will be releasing the edit.
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deleted.