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They are all space opera which has a dose of suds in it.
The difference between ANH and ESB and the rest is the earlier films look like they take place in a real war between real armed forces (albeit in a more technologically advanced realm) whereas starting with ROTJ and reaching it's zenith with the PT the later films look like cartoon battles between squid monsters and bathroom equipment.
OBI-WAN37 said:
...and the way Palpatine manipulates anakin into doing so is so cool, especially in episode III when you're just watching and thinking, "no, don't turn to the dark side",...
Are you sure you don't mean... "
, don't turn to the darkside!"?
^Palp's expression in that image is priceless.
^
Bingowings said:
^
We'd have been lucky if Palpatine looked that good in the PT.
Bingowings said:
They are all space opera which has a dose of suds in it.
The difference between ANH and ESB and the rest is the earlier films look like they take place in a real war between real armed forces (albeit in a more technologically advanced realm) whereas starting with ROTJ and reaching it's zenith with the PT the later films look like cartoon battles between squid monsters and bathroom equipment.
As a fan of the space battle scenes in Return of the Jedi, I take umbr-- ...yeah, all right, you have a point.
ray_afraid said:
Bingowings said:
^
We'd have been lucky if Palpatine looked that good in the PT.
Too true. It's like they just went on a vague memory to recreate the makeup for ROTS, instead of doing some research into how it was achieved, how it looked and how it would photograph.
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Someone here (I can't remember who) summarized best the failure of the PT to portray Anakin's fall to the darkside. Paraphrasing, it went something like, we see a whiney, arrogant, unlikeable, sniveling jerk turn into the universe's most awesome badass. Not the effect the authors were intending.
Having said that, the OP should realize that there IS some love for the PT here at OT.com... specifically, it is here, and ONLY here, that one can find and become a member of the CPY fan club.
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The CPY fan club? tell me more!
I'm amazed at how many very minor flaws people on this site manage to find in the prequels.
The make-up on ian mcdiarmid? First of all, I didn't notice anything wrong with it when I watched the prequels, and secondly, even if there was, it's not a big deal.
Secondly, the plot for the Phantom Menace was great: saving an endangered planet (naboo). And the plot for Attack of the Clones was good enough, and the plot for Revenge of the Sith was fantastic (Anakin's turn to the dark side).
Thirdly, I don't even care about the not-so excellent dialogue. Sure some of it was cliche. Like Darth Vader's "nooooooooooo"... but who cares? The films were an awesome tragedy.
Fourthly, the original trilogy wouldn't mean nearly as much to me if the prequel trilogy didn't exist. I mean, sure the acting's better. But not by much. I mean look at Ewan McGregor, Samuel Jackson, Ian Mcdiarmid, Liam Neeson, Christopher Lee.... all fantastic actors from the prequels.... and sure the story in the Original Trilogy was just as good as (but not better than) the prequels when you compare the two trilogies as individual episodes, but overall as one big, single movie the original trilogy just wasn't as good as the overall story of the prequels was as a single movie....
I mean, you can't deny that the awesomeness of the action in the prequel trilogy was far greater than the awesomeness of the action in the original trilogy... and the ships abundance of great-looking ships was greater too... combine that with the awesome story of the prequels and you have one pretty fantastic trilogy.
OBI-WAN37 said:
Fourthly, the original trilogy wouldn't mean nearly as much to me if the prequel trilogy didn't exist. ... but overall as one big, single movie the original trilogy just wasn't as good as the overall story of the prequels was as a single movie....
The PT is like a cancer on the body of Star Wars. The only way to save the OT is to remove the PT and then maybe it will survive.
The Prequels coming out was almost enough to make me think I just hated Star Wars. The re-edits of the OT, and the current batch of EU books and comics just about sealed the deal. It was getting my hands on theatrical preservations, despecialized editions and Star Wars Revisited that reminded me how much Star Wars there was to love.
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
The bottom line for me is that the PT is just George Lucas's version of Darth Vader's back story. It's not the only version, it's by no means the best version, and it's certainly not the version on which I'm raising my child.
Furthermore, the PT is only tangentially related to the OT. It is not important to the story of how the Rebellion defeated the Empire or how Luke redeemed Vader.
I can appreciate that you really like the PT, but to me, it's Star Wars in name only. The way I see it, some really rich out of touch guy, basically made a mediocre fan film that you seem to prefer.
OBI-WAN37 said:
I mean, you can't deny that the awesomeness of the action in the prequel trilogy was far greater than the awesomeness of the action in the original trilogy..
And yet here we are.
The problem is that the PT relied too much on action and space politics than being an enjoyable story as it is in the OT.
I think that you guys aren't giving the OP enough credit here, and perhaps most people on this forum are biased because they saw the prequels first.
Example: I recently took a mythology class, and my teacher had never seen the Star Wars movies until recently. Our class was aghast at this, and asked which trilogy she liked more. She said that she wasn't a fan of either very much, but did like Episode 1 the most. I find this remarkable because it speaks to a very different mindset from the average poster on this site. The teacher examined the movies from a mythological standpoint, and saw a lot of King Arthur in the prequel story. Our teacher had also watched the movies in numerical order, and because the prequels spoiled so many of the surprises and characters of the originals, this would rightly exclude the originals from being seen as great. Compound this with the fact that she probably saw the Blu-rays and the terrible color grading and additions, and I can fully understand why the prequels are seen at least on par with the originals. Lastly, the originals do have problems, even if many people here consider them quaint and charming.
I like prequel bashing as much as the next guy, but let's keep it civil.
And yes, some parts of ROTS were great.
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OBI-WAN37 said:
I'm amazed at how many very minor flaws people on this site manage to find in the prequels.
Minor flaws? Can you please try to respond to my first post in this thread? Puggo summarised it on this page as well.
I haven't had the pleasure of a prequel fan boys making any decent replies to that. Usually I just get ignored when I bring that up.
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OBI-WAN37 said:
I mean, you can't deny that the awesomeness of the action in the prequel trilogy was far greater than the awesomeness of the action in the original trilogy..
"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
-George Lucas
IT'S MY TRILOGY, AND I WANT IT NOW!
"[George Lucas] rebooted the franchise in 1997 without telling anyone." -skyjedi2005
"Yeah, well, George says a lot of things..." a young 1997 xhonzi on RASSM
"They're my movies." -George Lucas. 19 people won oscars for their work on Star Wars (1977) and George Lucas wasn't one of them.
OBI-WAN37 said:
I'm amazed at how many very minor flaws people on this site manage to find in the prequels.
The make-up on ian mcdiarmid? First of all, I didn't notice anything wrong with it when I watched the prequels, and secondly, even if there was, it's not a big deal.
Secondly, the plot for the Phantom Menace was great: saving an endangered planet (naboo). And the plot for Attack of the Clones was good enough, and the plot for Revenge of the Sith was fantastic (Anakin's turn to the dark side).
Thirdly, I don't even care about the not-so excellent dialogue. Sure some of it was cliche. Like Darth Vader's "nooooooooooo"... but who cares? The films were an awesome tragedy.
Fourthly, the original trilogy wouldn't mean nearly as much to me if the prequel trilogy didn't exist. I mean, sure the acting's better. But not by much. I mean look at Ewan McGregor, Samuel Jackson, Ian Mcdiarmid, Liam Neeson, Christopher Lee.... all fantastic actors from the prequels.... and sure the story in the Original Trilogy was just as good as (but not better than) the prequels when you compare the two trilogies as individual episodes, but overall as one big, single movie the original trilogy just wasn't as good as the overall story of the prequels was as a single movie....
I mean, you can't deny that the awesomeness of the action in the prequel trilogy was far greater than the awesomeness of the action in the original trilogy... and the ships abundance of great-looking ships was greater too... combine that with the awesome story of the prequels and you have one pretty fantastic trilogy.
Setting the top image aside for a moment (And that the bottom one is unfinished),
^ This is a direct comparison of how Palpatine looked in ROTS and then ROTJ. Thank the maker that Adywan is sorting out the abomination in the second image because as I hope you'll agree (If you have functioning eyes) that they are not the same makeup or the same character (So incompetent where the PT wardrobe and makeup department that the hood isn't even the same shape, size or fabric for goodness sake!).
You say "The plot for Attack of the Clones was good enough" and "I don't even care about the not-so excellent dialogue. Sure some of it was cliche. Like Darth Vader's "nooooooooooo"... but who cares?"
Too quote Luke "I CARE!". Since when was mediocrity acceptable in films? Plus since when was admitting that something was average a valid defence of how good it was? (We're through the looking glass on this one chums).
Also you said "Ewan McGregor, Samuel Jackson, Ian Mcdiarmid, Liam Neeson, Christopher Lee.... all fantastic actors from the prequels". I agree they are fantastic actors... but in the PT they turned in career low performances without exception (That's how badly written and directed they were). Fine young actors like Natalie and Liam who had built the foundations of their careers on early work like "Leon and "Trainspotting" have spent years trying to claw their way back from the humilation of being the worst thing in one of the worst made films of all time.
As for preferring the action. Each to his own but I suggest you'd be happier with a fireworks display. There is no story and no characters you care about... just lots of loud bangs and bright colours.
xhonzi said:
OBI-WAN37 said:
Fourthly, the original trilogy wouldn't mean nearly as much to me if the prequel trilogy didn't exist. ... but overall as one big, single movie the original trilogy just wasn't as good as the overall story of the prequels was as a single movie....
The PT is like a cancer on the body of Star Wars. The only way to save the OT is to remove the PT and then maybe it will survive.
The Prequels coming out was almost enough to make me think I just hated Star Wars. The re-edits of the OT, and the current batch of EU books and comics just about sealed the deal. It was getting my hands on theatrical preservations, despecialized editions and Star Wars Revisited that reminded me how much Star Wars there was to love.
^ This exactly. Guys like Adywan and Harmy have brought Star Wars back to me, after the awfulness of the PT made me fall out of love with Star Wars for much of the last decade.
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Ryan McAvoy said: they are not the same character
agreed
Ryan McAvoy said:
OBI-WAN37 said:
I'm amazed at how many very minor flaws people on this site manage to find in the prequels.
The make-up on ian mcdiarmid? First of all, I didn't notice anything wrong with it when I watched the prequels, and secondly, even if there was, it's not a big deal.
Secondly, the plot for the Phantom Menace was great: saving an endangered planet (naboo). And the plot for Attack of the Clones was good enough, and the plot for Revenge of the Sith was fantastic (Anakin's turn to the dark side).
Thirdly, I don't even care about the not-so excellent dialogue. Sure some of it was cliche. Like Darth Vader's "nooooooooooo"... but who cares? The films were an awesome tragedy.
Fourthly, the original trilogy wouldn't mean nearly as much to me if the prequel trilogy didn't exist. I mean, sure the acting's better. But not by much. I mean look at Ewan McGregor, Samuel Jackson, Ian Mcdiarmid, Liam Neeson, Christopher Lee.... all fantastic actors from the prequels.... and sure the story in the Original Trilogy was just as good as (but not better than) the prequels when you compare the two trilogies as individual episodes, but overall as one big, single movie the original trilogy just wasn't as good as the overall story of the prequels was as a single movie....
I mean, you can't deny that the awesomeness of the action in the prequel trilogy was far greater than the awesomeness of the action in the original trilogy... and the ships abundance of great-looking ships was greater too... combine that with the awesome story of the prequels and you have one pretty fantastic trilogy.
Setting the top image aside for a moment (And that the bottom one is unfinished),
You say "The plot for Attack of the Clones was good enough" and "I don't even care about the not-so excellent dialogue. Sure some of it was cliche. Like Darth Vader's "nooooooooooo"... but who cares?"
Too quote Luke "I CARE!". Since when was mediocrity acceptable in films? Plus since when was admitting that something was average a valid defence of how good it was? (We're through the looking glass on this one chums).
Okay, you must admit you didn't mention how I also said that the story for the phantom menace was great and that the story for revenge of the sith was fantastic, and how I also said that the story for the prequel trilogy as one full story was even better than the original trilogy as one story, and you also didn't mention how I called the story a "fantastic tragedy". So that is how the prequel trilogy is still fantastic.
xhonzi said:
OBI-WAN37 said:
I mean, you can't deny that the awesomeness of the action in the prequel trilogy was far greater than the awesomeness of the action in the original trilogy..
"A special effect without a story is a pretty boring thing."
-George Lucas
But I already said, the story for the Phantom menace was great, the story for Attack of the Clones was good enough, the story for revenge of the sith was fantastic, and the story when you look at the trilogy as a complete single movie was amazing.
imperialscum said:
OBI-WAN37 said:
I'm amazed at how many very minor flaws people on this site manage to find in the prequels.
Minor flaws? Can you please try to respond to my first post in this thread? Puggo summarised it on this page as well.
I haven't had the pleasure of a prequel fan boys making any decent replies to that. Usually I just get ignored when I bring that up.
Ok, I don't know what you're talking about when you say your first post, but as to what Pluggo said, I think that that "flaw" in Anakin's character isn't really a flaw that even really detracts from the movie, but more something original trilogy-fans pick on in order to find a way to hate the movie.
When I first registered for this site, I defended the PT to the posters here. I acknowledged that they were inferior, but still believed them to be good movies. Now here I am today, and my opinions have slightly changed due to the influence of those here. But when I say slightly, I really mean only slightly. I see better the flaws and inconsistencies, and I see more problems and get irritated at more parts. But simultaneously, I still enjoy the PT far more than most of the other posters here. They are sort of deuterocanonical for me, fun at times but not always part of my who Star Wars worldview. Sometimes I consider them canon, sometimes I don't. It just depends on what I'm trying to enjoy. Your views are valid, even if your points aren't very strong. You have every right to enjoy the PT, just as I do. But just understand that you are arguing with people who will not be changed, and whose views have been shaped by a number of experiences. You can still get along here, but the prequels will never be seen as equal to the originals among this crowd, including this particular fan of the PT.
I was just about to get a possible answer to my arguments I made in the three posts just before yours. And, although I'm not totally sure this is by coincidence, someone always seems to prevent a direct response from coming from an OT fan after his argument is challenged well, whether it's the OT fan making the argument or someone who's watching, and this seems to be one of those times. So, I'm asking as politely as possible, can any of the individual posters I was responding to please give me a response to the response I gave them in any of my previous three posts?
OBI-WAN37 said:
imperialscum said:
OBI-WAN37 said:
I'm amazed at how many very minor flaws people on this site manage to find in the prequels.
Minor flaws? Can you please try to respond to my first post in this thread? Puggo summarised it on this page as well.
I haven't had the pleasure of a prequel fan boys making any decent replies to that. Usually I just get ignored when I bring that up.
Ok, I don't know what you're talking about when you say your first post, but as to what Pluggo said, I think that that "flaw" in Anakin's character isn't really a flaw that even really detracts from the movie, but more something original trilogy-fans pick on in order to find a way to hate the movie.
No, it actually isn't a flaw but a rather the way the character and story revolving around it was written. It wasn't written as an adventure... but as a bad drama about an extremely unlikable character.
So at that point it comes down to preference. Whether you like adventure (OT) or soap opera (PT).
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