Recreating the PT from Original Film Takes — Page 2

thecolorsblend said:

On a personal note, I'm defending the prequels (this aspect anyway) on a forum mostly filled with people I respect but who don't like them. So in deference to most of their preferences, this is probably my last post about this.

You're making pretty good points, I'd say.

Since the PT was so bad, it's interesting (to me, at least) to see what people infer from it, and it's also interesting to see that a lot of people tend to take some pretty deep stuff out of it, and how similar what people infer is (such as the Jedi Order being corrupt and dooming itself to fail, et cetera).

I would prefer, a reconstruction of the original cut, that John Williams scored to, with his full score restored (with revised cues and inserts made available via seamless branching.)

fishmanlee said:

I would prefer, a reconstruction of the original cut, that John Williams scored to, with his full score restored (with revised cues and inserts made available via seamless branching.)

I always wondered why there was no full version of the score for episodes 2 and 3. Whatever one may say about the prequels, John Williams remains Da Man.

I heard somewhere that Williams wanted to do a different opening theme to the prequels. That would have been really cool. In any case, you would really need the original Williams score to do what this thread suggests.

thecolorsblend said:

NeverarGreat said:

Luke and Han's preliminary goals in ANH are there because they are torn between the world that they know and the world of adventure. The first step of Luke's journey is to reject the goals imposed by his uncle and achieve his destiny, whereas Han's journey is in doing something that isn't for money. He decides not to return to Jabba, and instead joins the Rebellion. When the goals imposed by Owen become irrelevant, Luke makes a firm decision to become a Jedi. When Han decides to return and help the rebellion, we don't hear a firm decision. Naturally he will have second thoughts in ESB.

I'm not trying to be hard on the prequels because I think that the Original Trilogy is perfect in every way. Han probably could have paid back Jabba and still helped the rebellion, just as Anakin could have probably freed his mother and still trained to be a Jedi.

Anakin became a Jedi Knight based on a lie. The council wouldn't have done it if they knew he was married. The marriage ceremony and clone army scenes at the end of episode 2 send a single message: failure. It isn't like the scene at the end of ESB where our heroes know that they've made mistakes, and must work to right them. It is that Anakin and the entire senate and Jedi order are already defeated, and even they know it. You might as well end the trilogy there, as it is obvious what will happen.

Parts of my comments were meant more in jest than anything. Still, you raise valid points. With the acknowledgement that freeing the slaves wasn't one of Anakin's big goals, I agree with what you say. But that's the exact point. Episode II is called Attack of the Clones. The Republic is the aggressor in that conflict. Sure, the Separatists are led by greedy, conniving puppets but is every single one of those star systems equally evil? I doubt it. All most of 'em probably want is a fair shot and they don't see that happening under the Republic so they want out. As you say, the militarization of the Republic proves the game of democracy and freedom is over.

The Jedi have sold out their ideals to a system built on greed and perpetuated by the same. Qui-Gon (noble, competent, a strong sense of what's right) is what the Jedi should be; Yoda (deceitful, obstinate, dishonest) is what they are. Ensconced in their literal ivory tower, the Jedi were complicit in their own destruction. If the Jedi had given Anakin a single iota of validation and enfranchisement, there's every reason to think things could have turned out differently.

And understand, I'm not arguing the prequels were perfect. Far from it. But the stuff above is a big part of why I like them in general.

On a personal note, I'm defending the prequels (this aspect anyway) on a forum mostly filled with people I respect but who don't like them. So in deference to most of their preferences, this is probably my last post about this.

Well this is it, isn't it? You can present such a well-reasoned argument time and again but if folk aren't prepared to ever change their mind on something, what's the point?

"The prequels are rubbish."

"No they're not, because..."

"Yes they are, because..."

ad nauseum.

I mean no offense by this, honestly, but both of you (Easterhay and thecolorsblend-I've enjoyed your insights) need to quit worrying so much.

As the Star Wars landscape has changed, so have a lot of people's views. With the announcement of the sale to Disney, I've seen a dramatic shift in what people think of George Lucas, and I never thought that would happen. While most people agree that they want him to stay out of their ST, a lot of people have gone back to thoroughly loving him for the OT and his support on fan projects, and simply regard the PT as an affair that we're all just trying to forget about. He gave away his right to release the OUT, so there is no longer any reason to be angry with him that it's not being released.

Likewise, compare the hate of the PT now to 8 years ago - Fanedits have risen that damn near make these GOOD movies, even if they'll never reach the level of the OT. People who used to believe that the PT was unsaveable are now the very people who are trying to save them, making as many suggestions as possible to every edit thread that pops up. Consider how many people are waiting in the wings for the PT Revisited that refuse to watch them right now. 

People are almost never prepared to change their minds, but it happens all the time. Everyone just needs that one well worded argument to penetrate their minds and fester for a while. Likewise, even now I'm trying to change your opinion on this forum's ability to weather different opinions. While I understand your choice not to mess with what you believe is the "status quo", I think you are misreading the situation. Let down your hair, sir. Enjoy the party :)

That's not at all funny. I'm bald as a coot :)

No, I take your post in the well-meaning way in which you intended. I've become increasingly bothered by the unmitigated hatred from some quarters for the prequels. Am I seeing something others aren't? And I've even questioned myself as to whether I'm simply an apologist, desperately trying to see chicken sh*t as chicken salad. Hand on heart, though, I love the prequels (and I'm old enough to have seen the original films at the age at which I believe I was supposed to see them - ergo I saw Star Wars (as it was then) in 1977 at the age of six. And I love The Clone Wars, too. Does it help that I have a seven year old son with whom I watch the films and the cartoons? Well it certainly doesn't hurt.

What bothers me, though, is the assertion by some young Turks that I'm not a "true" fan because I don't live in denial of the prequels or that I'm not hugely bothered that I can't see the original films in their original format on Blu-ray - although I see the argument for their release and I think they should be released, if only for archival reasons.

I'll try and relax and lay off the black coffee. But if I encounter anyone here who is clearly spoiling for a fight, don't be surprised if I put my dukes up.

You want to get that seen to.

nightstalkerpoet said:

I mean no offense by this, honestly, but both of you (Easterhay and thecolorsblend-I've enjoyed your insights) need to quit worrying so much.

As the Star Wars landscape has changed, so have a lot of people's views. With the announcement of the sale to Disney, I've seen a dramatic shift in what people think of George Lucas, and I never thought that would happen. While most people agree that they want him to stay out of their ST, a lot of people have gone back to thoroughly loving him for the OT and his support on fan projects, and simply regard the PT as an affair that we're all just trying to forget about. He gave away his right to release the OUT, so there is no longer any reason to be angry with him that it's not being released.

Likewise, compare the hate of the PT now to 8 years ago - Fanedits have risen that damn near make these GOOD movies, even if they'll never reach the level of the OT. People who used to believe that the PT was unsaveable are now the very people who are trying to save them, making as many suggestions as possible to every edit thread that pops up. Consider how many people are waiting in the wings for the PT Revisited that refuse to watch them right now. 

People are almost never prepared to change their minds, but it happens all the time. Everyone just needs that one well worded argument to penetrate their minds and fester for a while. Likewise, even now I'm trying to change your opinion on this forum's ability to weather different opinions. While I understand your choice not to mess with what you believe is the "status quo", I think you are misreading the situation. Let down your hair, sir. Enjoy the party :)

Fair enough. But nobody wants to be that annoying son of a bitch who doesn't adhere to the basic premise of a forum.

And yes, minds change all the time. I used to be fully on board with the Special Editions. Hey, why not? Let the guy complete the movies according to his vision with modern technology. Two things changed my mind- the GOUT DVD's and the Blu-Rays.

GOUT gave me a fresh appreciation for how amazing those original versions really are. Every single shot oozes vision and inspiration, especially ANH and Empire. No, those discs aren't perfect but they're still pretty good.

The Blu-Rays pushed me over the edge. How freaking many times must he tweak things to satisfy "his original vision"? What, ILM can animate a CG Jar Jar running around acting a fool and a CG Watto mouthing off to Qui-Gon but not a CG Yoda who does nothing except sit on his butt? George didn't have the time, money or technology to do it "right" the first time? Sorry but I don't buy it. And don't even get me started on the additional changes to the OT (lightsaber problems persist through out all the movies but now we have blinking Ewoks!!).

One thing that interested me in this was that people disliked the presentation of the Jedi. They saw what Lucas was going for but didn't like the basic premise. I can respect that they at least see the concept. It's different if they think there wasn't a concept to it. But not liking the Jedi being portrayed as out of touch, know-it-all douchebags who got exactly what they deserved is preference. And I don't have a problem with that.