Collaborative Fanediting: An ROTJ Proposition (BACK ON TRACK WITH EMANSWFAN AT THE HELM--SEE POST 1488 OR OP FOR A LINK!) — Page 26

ray_afraid said:

darth_ender said:

Ray_afraid, I think that's a fair comment, and as much as I enjoy pondering many of these ideas, a big part of me agrees with you.  Yes, we are trying to slow the pace (which is why I especially like my tiny little version of the Bothans delivering the plans--slows it a bit, but not too dramatic), but I worry a whole new scene would be too out of place.  I like the ideas, but I just don't see how to make them fit.  Obviously I like my ideas, but even my own little scene gives me pause as feeling out of place.  The only reason I wrote it was to go along with the vote.

It would make for a great short film, but I just couldn't accept it as a part of the trilogy. Actually, I'd love to work on it collaboratively as a short film.

we are trying to fill in the blanks, are you suggesting put the film back in it's original format of sequence then?

darth_ender said:

While I'm for cutting Ewok stuff, I don't believe it can be a successful complete excision.  Therefore I think minimizing certain things and rearranging the plot can be a more realistic solution, plus inserting a couple of well-placed home-filmed commando clips.

Now speaking of all this filming action, no one has volunteered any ideas on how to obtain costumes.  When we finally decide on what we're filming, where will we get the costumes?

The Helmets were modified WW2 Helmets from what I can remember, a tie die camo throw and some timberlands and combats should be fairly cheap eh?

Right you can probably tell by now that I really like the idea of including the Bothans as the new intro, and that I'm all for editing footage from existing sources over filming our own (based purely on cost and quality, not because I wouldn't like to be able to). 

But based on this I have made a better clip demonstrating a possible intro scene.  It is rough because the filesize is relatively low and I did it in a day or so without much video editing skill.  However, if I did something like this in a day, imagine what someone like Angel could do in two days. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpDFA-FXXg

The material is sourced from a relatively small pool too so with more thought we could probably improve nearly every shot so please judge it on the idea rather than the execution. 

The reasons I am pushing for this though are that it provides us a way to see Boushh before Jabba's palace, which means when it turns out Boushh is in fact Leia it will be a shock, which is good.  Also in my version I have used the idea that the Bothans are attempting to get to the imperial planet by using a stolen code just like Han and co will try later on in the film.  Because we saw this fail for the Bothans it will increase the tension when Han tries it later on.  We would also get to see some ships which would be new to the OT.  I think that is good because it shows the rebels are having to take whatever they can get including old ships to throw together the biggest force they can.  Something I dislike a little about the ships in RotJ is that the big rebel ships are almost all Mon Calamari ships, why not have a few others to mix it up and make it look like a really diverse force.  And finally adding a few minutes in this way would increase the run time which would give more freedom to cut parts later on without leaving the overall film feeling too short.

Anyway please let me know what you do or do not like about this idea as I intend to try to gradually improve it as and when I find better clips to use, so all feedback would be much appreciated. 

Edit:

I have just clicked the link to make sure it was working ok and for some reason youtube has altered the video slightly (recompression at a guess), but every now and then I added a frame of just text or still image to demonstrate something, these shots seem to have been cut to a second or so, I don't know why but sorry about that, the only thing I can suggest is pressing pause so you have time to read what is written.  Thanks again for watching it. 

@Ronster, yes it's suicide in the real world to blow up Endor.  As Angel pointed out (from the very interesting Star Wars Technical Commentary pages), blowing up the Death Star would actually be equally suicidal in the real world.  But in the Star Wars universe, it doesn't have to be.  Besides, I suggested in my script that the Death Stars orbit is far too close anyway.  This is how close our moon is to earth:

(*Gosh, I can't even fit the whole thing in the post without shrinking it more, and instead of continuing to fiddle with the size, just open it in a new window.)

The DSII is clearly far closer.  If we make it appear farther, it still would be suicidal, but perhaps more believable as well as allow the Death Stars size to be better represented visually.  It can be shown to be huge in its own right rather than dwarfed by the moon it's orbiting.

Yes, timdiggerm had the idea of using Boushh, another brilliant idea in my mind.  But I'm liking the idea of short films a lot now, and that would probably be better suited for such a short film.  The best thing about the short films is that everyone could come up with their own interpretation of the Bothan spies thing and we could enjoy the various takes on a single concept.  I personally see no need for a "definitive version" of any of these movies and would enjoy having several versions of the Bothan spies.

darth_ender said:

Now speaking of all this filming action, no one has volunteered any ideas on how to obtain costumes.  When we finally decide on what we're filming, where will we get the costumes?

I have a little experience with making big models too (like props and helmets and so on), so if we needed something like that making I might be able to help, but I cannot do material such as the cloth parts of the costumes. 

However, there are already hundreds (if not thousands) of people around the world who make extremely accurate costumes and troop (dressing up for conventions, events, etc) in them.  I would suggest first finding a film crew, then contacting the group of costumers closest to that filming crew's location. 

For example I spoke to a few people near me a few years ago to try to find someone with a good wookiee costume.  However, I would then need to find someone near me to film it too.  Also I live in England and there are many more people who do this in America. 

My recommendation would be find someone studying film making or something similar who lives near a location in America which could pass for Endor.  Once that person agrees to film the shots we can find 'actors' who are local to that person, and either make costumes and send them over or find locals with suitable costumes.  The downside once again is it is a lot to organise and thus a lot of ways for it to fail. 

So wait....now we're talking about making a short film about Bouush and/or Bothans. Does anyone need to borrow my Vyvance? Anyone? 

ray_afraid said:

Ronster said:

 

are you suggesting put the film back in it's original format of sequence then?

Not at all. I've already given my idea for a new beginning. See my sig.

you know that is a really good idea, and I like it alot too but it does not help fill any gaps... infact it gives us 1 less cut away if done this way and until somthing gets nailed down on how this start plays out I cannot give it my vote yet.

@Darth_Ender look ROTJ Collabrotive cut will be a short film if you don't pad the begining out somehow.... It sounds like you are running away from the problem...

Ok like how Spence Cut ROTJ would you agree that it worked really well in Jabbas palace I don't think it did at all none of the characters were given enough time to develop into their roles properly we are trying to fix that no?

Let's learn from what has already been done and try and go in a new direction, atleast that is my suggestion.

@Johanus I think your idea needs toning down it's too much and too soon and would be overdoing it... I also don't agree with all the new ships but I like the ambassadors ship the most out of these suggestions

Well, it could satisfy the desire of so many to see something of this sort while simultaneously allowing us to stay truer to the original movie in story and in feel (something hard to duplicate if we include any non-OT footage).  It's just a suggestion, and not something I'm going to be part of.

So I'm on the last part of the script, and I have to bring up something again, though we voted it down: Anakin's ghost at the pyre scene.  Let me argue for it one more time.  If we show the Ewok celebration and all three Force ghosts smiling, there is Luke's resolution, as well as the audience's.  We know Luke is cool with his old man, and so are we.  But if we follow that with the pyre scene (which we voted to do), he is now sad and emotional, burning his father's carcass and armor (or at least the armor).  This does not capture the right emotions then.  If, however, we simply show Luke smiling while looking at Ben and Yoda, and then after burning his father he comes to terms with him as he sees his ghost, I think it would be a far better fit.  Let me sum it up like this: if we keep the Force ghosts, the pyre scene needs to come before it.  If we put the pyre scene at the very end, we need to remove the Force ghosts.  UNLESS...if we remove Anakin from the trio and reveal him DURING the pyre scene (as Aalenfae will show us in an upcoming mockup), then we can keep both scenes and the desired order.

Can we include this once again in the next vote, or is it really dead?  I really think the logic is quite sound.

darth_ender said:

Well, it could satisfy the desire of so many to see something of this sort while simultaneously allowing us to stay truer to the original movie in story and in feel (something hard to duplicate if we include any non-OT footage).  It's just a suggestion, and not something I'm going to be part of.

 

So I'm on the last part of the script, and I have to bring up something again, though we voted it down: Anakin's ghost at the pyre scene.  Let me argue for it one more time.  If we show the Ewok celebration and all three Force ghosts smiling, there is Luke's resolution, as well as the audience's.  We know Luke is cool with his old man, and so are we.  But if we follow that with the pyre scene (which we voted to do), he is now sad and emotional, burning his father's carcass and armor (or at least the armor).  This does not capture the right emotions then.  If, however, we simply show Luke smiling while looking at Ben and Yoda, and then after burning his father he comes to terms with him as he sees his ghost, I think it would be a far better fit.  Let me sum it up like this: if we keep the Force ghosts, the pyre scene needs to come before it.  If we put the pyre scene at the very end, we need to remove the Force ghosts.  UNLESS...if we remove Anakin from the trio and reveal him DURING the pyre scene (as Aalenfae will show us in an upcoming mockup), then we can keep both scenes and the desired order.

Can we include this once again in the next vote, or is it really dead?  I really think the logic is quite sound.

completly logical and sound choice 100% with you on that, although the complication comes down to which anakin to see which kind of makes me feel ile why do we need to see him at all... Vader came good in the end.... But he's passed on now y'know

Ron, I don't feel I'm running away from any pacing problem.  I feel we addressed it well enough with Vader contacting Luke, as I wrote here, and as a few people agreed.  Don't worry, I'm sure we'll vote on it, and I have my work cut out for me since no one else wants to manage the voting.

darth_ender said:

Ron, I don't feel I'm running away from any pacing problem.  I feel we addressed it well enough with Vader contacting Luke, as I wrote here, and as a few people agreed.  Don't worry, I'm sure we'll vote on it, and I have my work cut out for me since no one else wants to manage the voting.

Ok No Probs It needs mocking up from before and after to know it will work it's not cinema yet only words on a page...

So here is the completed script with changes based on the votes:

http://www.4shared.com/office/B1Lt0Ddn/ROTJ_script_edited_updated.html

I also make physical models, heres some in progress at the minute:

You may notice, I have a thing about the Falcon,...at the minute I've 5 different kits on the go.....

J

I put some effects on the Lost Rebels Audio to create a type of comms chatter effect I would ignore the first bird she is just crap and would be better suited to somthing like the magic roundabout... Link below

http://www.mediafire.com/?dlbh511a6r2a808

Wow!  Great Falcon, J.  Anything you'd be interested in constructing for our edit?  I'm sure we could use anything you make.  I'm thinking we could use more Mon Cal cruisers, but they've got to be a pain in the butt to construct.

......not need any more YT's?

:(

J

No, I'm sure we'd have a use for one (probably not 5 simultaneously ;).  I'm sure we could make new Falcon shots, and in fact I included at least one in my newest script.  I'm sure more would be even better.  I was just thinking you were offering to build other stuff as well.  Whatever you prefer.  It's a beautiful model :)

I don't mind building.......

                                ...............but it takes me ages

J

Like I said, it's up to you.  I now remember two points where we could use a Falcon model.  And if you do want to build something else, it's of course entirely up to you.  If not, no pressure, we already appreciate your help.  The reason I suggested a Mon Cal cruiser was because I believe we will need some, and Johannus's Mon Cal ships are probably too small to work.  He's working on a Victory Star Destroyer at the moment, so I thought maybe you might have a hand at something else.

Hey, now that I've got your attention.  How hard would it be to add texture and detail to a small model flying overhead using your skills?  I'm only imagining a few seconds replacing the Imperial Star Destroyer in the opening shot, and he does have a nice model that would probably need a little enhancement.

fishmanlee said:

Ronster said:

I would ignore the first bird she is just crap

 

She is in the theatrical movie y'know.

Well they obviously did not use the audio from this recording.... I'll just agree she was a lost rebel even if she made it in

I'll say first place goes to the old american granny

then Fish Face... I guess she comes third.... The bloke who was doing the puppet on the falcon is truly abidmal and can see why they decided to come up with another language when it came to his lines

Yes definitely, what ship?

Heres a Mon Cal ship downloaded from scfi3d. a few minutes ago.....quickly lit and rendered

J