logo Sign In

Pre-PT era lore | an OT & EU scrapbook resource | additional info & sources welcome — Page 2

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Caston said:

Man, awesome thread. I’ve only skimmed it so far, but am already looking forward to getting into it and reading a number pf the old novels, sourcebooks, and guides again!

My meagre contribution:

<snip>

wookieepedia page for Garm Bel Iblis: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Garm_Bel_Iblis/Legends

Thanks Caston. That’s a cool find and reminder. I’ve added a ‘Garm Bel Iblis’ section to the Characters and Biographies | Protagonists & Allies category, and added your post to that.
 

Like we were talking about earlier in the week, I still miss the idea of the pre-PT EU, and find it a pity there are no more new additions or releases, for that earlier “pre-PT era” timeline. Maybe there are some fan fics out there somewhere?
 

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time

Yes, it is unlikely we’ll ever see anything like “The Star Wars” comic, along the lines of the pre-PT era lore:

I loved that idea!
 

Although talented fans like DarthStarkiller1234 are coming up with some cool interesting outlines and stories for that pre-PT era.

“In the future it will become even easier for old negatives to become lost and be “replaced” by new altered negatives. This would be a great loss to our society. Our cultural history must not be allowed to be rewritten.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

The memories are flooding back after reading this beguiling thread. Awesome work SoBS and everyone. It has inspired me to go and buy a copy of the X Wing game for the PC again, just to get a copy of “The Farlander Papers”!
 

for the "A list of assorted ‘pre-PT era’ claims to check: claims on reddit by CharlieTheStrawman:

A screenshot from the wookieepedia page for Obi Wan Kenobi on his birth place:

^ From this and the two sources provided: 1st edition of ‘The Rebel Alliance Sourcebook’ and ‘Star Wars Screen Entertainment’, in pre-PT era lore, Obi Wan was born on Tatooine.

 
 

I saw this in another thread, but thought it could appeal to many in here:
 

Channel72 said:

Literally any fan speculation about the Clone Wars is likely to be cooler than what Lucas actually came up with in 2002.

Like everyone else, I imagined some awesome galactic conflict with massive clone armies controlled by distant alien factions trying to overthrow the Republic, along with clone-based subterfuge and political intrigue (cloning of Senators or Jedi - with some darker elements like cloned Jedi going insane).

I did not imagine that the clones were boring CGI Stormtroopers created under bullshit circumstances for the Republic to use at the last minute to fight some equally boring CGI robots as part of an under-explained civil war, and that every single clone was actually Boba Fett’s dad.

Anyway, pre-Prequel ideas about the Clone Wars always fascinated me because while many of these ideas are traceable to pre-1999 EU publications, some of these ideas are actually examples of pre-Internet “memes”. These were orally-communicated “memes” whose origin is forever lost to time, yet are somehow consistently known by many people of a certain age group across multiple regions/countries. These memes were spread on playgrounds, fan gatherings, and mail-based fan publications, in a way similar to how stories and myths were spread in pre-literate cultures. Similar to childhood songs that somehow every kid of a certain age knew (“Jingle Bells, Batman Smells”), the idea that Obi Wan Kenobi was actually OB-1 the clone is a pre-Internet meme that was remarkably wide-spread before the Internet, and remains well known to this day. Every Star Wars fan in the 80s and 90s somehow “knew a guy” that told them about this theory. (Of course it turned out to be false, and I’m glad, because it’s stupid.)

 
Below are some articles on this fan theory from at that time, something I always found kinda interesting: the fan theory from before the Prequels, and the web, that Obi Wan was a clone:

OB-1 = ‘Original Body 1’

Obi-Wan Kenobi is a Clone - at The Movie Blog
Obi-Wan Kenobi is Actually OB1 Kenobi - at CBR
Excuse me Mr. Kenobi, but was that Obi-Wan or OB1? - at Trailer Addict
Star Wars’ Weirdest Fan Theory Concerned… Obi-Wan’s Name? - at CBR
Star Wars Fan Theories Explained: Obi-Wan & Anakin Are Really Clones 0B-1 & NKN - at Looper
Where did the ideas of Obi-Wan being a clone named OB-1 originate from? - reddit/RewritingThePrequels

“The thing about Star Wars is that there’s one universe” & “Everyone wants to know stuff, like, where did Mace get that purple lightsaber? We want to establish that there’s one and only one answer” - Leland Chee, Continuity Database administrator for Lucasfilm, aka ‘Keeper of the Holocron’, 2008.

Author
Time

Keyan Farlander said:

snip

That is great, and thank you.

I’ll add another tick to the list of queries being answered, and add the Kenobi clone fan theory into the Miscellaneous category.

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Sideburns of BoShek said:

If there’s any older fans out there who remember this time before the prequels, I’m curious if you could attest to what it was like during this time? Was the speculation more or less what the EU writers were hinting at? How shocking was it when these changes were made?

I’m old enough at least so that I was already a teenager when Phantom Menace came out, so I engaged in my fair share of speculation about the Star Wars backstory as told by Obi-Wan to Luke in A New Hope. I hadn’t read any of the EU material at that time, so the speculation was purely based off the OT and various playground rumors I picked up. I somehow knew that Anakin Skywalker fell into a lava pit while fighting Kenobi, which is how he became Vader. I was aware of the “OB1” idea that Kenobi was actually a clone - but I didn’t necessarily believe it. The basic assumption regarding the Clone Wars was that the clones were the bad guys - possibly associated somehow with Mandalorians - and they were fighting against the Republic (or maybe the early Empire). Anakin followed Kenobi on some “idealistic crusade” which was probably to fight for the Republic against the clones. Anakin and Kenobi were similar in age, and Anakin was known for his great star-fighter piloting skills. The Jedi Knights were kind of like Samurai who served the nobility (which is why Kenobi served Bail Organa.) Beyond that, I assumed very little.

I do remember assuming the Prequels would be much closer aesthetically/stylistically to the OT. And due to the mention of clones, I assumed the Prequels would have more of a “science fiction” angle to the story than the originals did. I also assumed that Alderaan and the Alderaanian royalty would play a much larger role in these stories. (The actual Prequels seem to have replaced Alderaan’s role with Naboo.)

There’s a fan-made plot synopsis/script outline that was circulating around in the 80s or early 90s which told the story of Episode 3. Obi-Wan is essentially the main character. The story also featured characters like “Lady Arcadia Skywalker”, who was Anakin’s wife, Bail Organa, and Captain Antilles. The story focuses a lot on the Alderaanian forces as Palpatine takes control of the Republic. There’s also a “Prince Valarium”, which indicates that whoever wrote this may have actually read (or at least heard details about) genuine early drafts of Star Wars. (They definitely read the ANH novelization at least.)

Anyway, this fan-made synopsis is close - both plot-wise and stylistically - to my vague expectations about the Prequels. At least, much closer than the actual Prequels that were released 1999-2005. I can’t say to what extent this fan-made synopsis was an amalgamation of pre-existing fan expectations, or to what extent it actually influenced fan expectations. I can’t even remember when or if I became aware of this plot synopsis as a child. But I can say with certainty that this plot synopsis is at least closer in spirit to what I expected from the Prequels.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Channel72 said:

I do remember assuming the Prequels would be much closer aesthetically/stylistically to the OT.

Same, only everything was cleaner/newer. I also imagined Alderaan with a more soft-focus fantasy aesthetic, with gleaming white Romanesque architecture.

Gods for some, miniature libertarian socialist flags for others.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Channel72 said:

There’s a fan-made plot synopsis/script outline that was circulating around in the 80s or early 90s which told the story of Episode 3. Obi-Wan is essentially the main character. The story also featured characters like “Lady Arcadia Skywalker”, who was Anakin’s wife, Bail Organa, and Captain Antilles. The story focuses a lot on the Alderaanian forces as Palpatine takes control of the Republic. There’s also a “Prince Valarium”, which indicates that whoever wrote this may have actually read (or at least heard details about) genuine early drafts of Star Wars. (They definitely read the ANH novelization at least.)

Anyway, this fan-made synopsis is close - both plot-wise and stylistically - to my vague expectations about the Prequels. At least, much closer than the actual Prequels that were released 1999-2005. I can’t say to what extent this fan-made synopsis was an amalgamation of pre-existing fan expectations, or to what extent it actually influenced fan expectations. I can’t even remember when or if I became aware of this plot synopsis as a child. But I can say with certainty that this plot synopsis is at least closer in spirit to what I expected from the Prequels.

Yeah! John L Flynn’s “Fall Of The Republic” script.

There are a few pieces about it listed in the Index thread for ‘Beyond the Original Trilogy’:

oojason said:
 

For those who are familiar with it, what do you think of the fan script of “Fall of the Republic”? (2023 thread)

Interesting Hypothesis of the Prequels Story from the Mid 90’s (2005 thread; John L Flynn’s ‘Fall Of The Republic’ fan-script)

^ John L Flynn’s ‘fan-lore’ script: 1983’s Fall of the Republic & 1994’s Looking Back to the Future of Star Wars & his other works

He also wrote pieces for Starlog, and maybe similar publications like Insider and CineScape? One of the above threads has a podcast with him on it talking about FOTR and his similar works. Screamsinthevoid linked to an article of two by him in here from the mid-90s, I’ll dig them out later.

I really liked FOTR at the time, and still prefer it to what we actually got. Though imagination and our projections in filling in the blanks often triumphs reality. I’d love to see an animation or comic book form of it, even fan made, but then is so much of that early “what if?” stuff I’d like to see, along the lines of “The Star Wars” comics from 2013/14.

 

Edit: John L Flynn article in Cinemscape for March 1995, posted up by Screamsinthevoid:

 

and just for fun: screams also posted a link to a Cinescape article from November 1997 guessing at what the Prequels could be like:

“Don’t tell anyone… but when ‘Star Wars’ first came out, I didn’t know where it was going either. The trick is to pretend you’ve planned the whole thing out in advance. Throw in some father issues and references to other stories - let’s call them homages - and you’ve got a series.” - George Lucas

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Sideburns of BoShek said:

I really liked FOTR at the time, and still prefer it to what we actually got. Though imagination and our projections in filling in the blanks often triumphs reality. I’d love to see an animation or comic book form of it, even fan made, but then is so much of that early “what if?” stuff I’d like to see, along the lines of “The Star Wars” comics from 2013/14.

A common element across most fan speculation about the Prequels is that our imaginations concocted stories almost entirely based on elements from the OT. Things like Alderaan, Captain Antilles, spice mines of Kessel, etc. But Lucas obviously wanted to make the Prequels unique, with new settings, new characters, and completely unexpected plot developments. And since it was Lucas’ creativity and imagination that created Star Wars in the first place, it seemed likely that he would come up with amazing new things that far surpassed the mediocre imagination of the average fan.

And indeed he did come up with lots of new, unexpected stuff. Things like Gungans, mysterious clone conspiracies, a “chosen one” prophecy, Qui-Gon Jinn, General Grievous, Dexter Jettster, pod racing, etc. I mean, who could have expected that Episode I would go in an entirely bizarre direction - telling a Kurosawa-influenced side story about two Jedi Knights protecting a young Queen from evil invaders - a story almost completely unrelated to anything that happens in the OT. Lucas obviously wanted to flex his creative muscles, defying fan expectations to such a degree that the whole thing came off as wacky instead of cool. In retrospect, the pre-Prequel fan expectations - derivative and straightforward as they often were - sound like a much better “rough sketch” for the Prequels than what we ultimately got.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Channel72 said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

I really liked FOTR at the time, and still prefer it to what we actually got. Though imagination and our projections in filling in the blanks often triumphs reality. I’d love to see an animation or comic book form of it, even fan made, but then is so much of that early “what if?” stuff I’d like to see, along the lines of “The Star Wars” comics from 2013/14.

A common element across most fan speculation about the Prequels is that our imaginations concocted stories almost entirely based on elements from the OT. Things like Alderaan, Captain Antilles, spice mines of Kessel, etc. But Lucas obviously wanted to make the Prequels unique, with new settings, new characters, and completely unexpected plot developments. And since it was Lucas’ creativity and imagination that created Star Wars in the first place, it seemed likely that he would come up with amazing new things that far surpassed the mediocre imagination of the average fan.

And indeed he did come up with lots of new, unexpected stuff. Things like Gungans, mysterious clone conspiracies, a “chosen one” prophecy, Qui-Gon Jinn, General Grievous, Dexter Jettster, pod racing, etc. I mean, who could have expected that Episode I would go in an entirely bizarre direction - telling a Kurosawa-influenced side story about two Jedi Knights protecting a young Queen from evil invaders - a story almost completely unrelated to anything that happens in the OT. Lucas obviously wanted to flex his creative muscles, defying fan expectations to such a degree that the whole thing came off as wacky instead of cool. In retrospect, the pre-Prequel fan expectations - derivative and straightforward as they often were - sound like a much better “rough sketch” for the Prequels than what we ultimately got.

Out of that list of unexpected stuff, the only thing that was universally liked and well handled (maybe) was podracing. “At least it did something different” is always a bad excuse for this kind of thing.

That’s not a bizarre direction for episode 1 at all. You’re not winning any points by namedropping “Kurosawa-influenced” by alluding to The Hidden Fortress when the original Star Wars in 1977 was already drawing on that setup so heavily. If anything the prequels ruined those elements by making the Jedi the FBI instead of samurai.

The developments weren’t that unexpected given that they are prequels and some of the material was already written. Everyone knew going in that Anakin would become Darth Vader, Obi Wan would be a main character and train Anakin, the Emperor would be a main character and corrupt Anakin, the Emperor and Vader would kill the Jedi minus Yoda and Obi Wan, Luke and Leia’s mother would be a main character and some kind of royalty, and Luke and Leia would be born and get hidden from Vader. It’s not really fair to any fans or writers to say that they had a failure of imagination for sticking to what was already well established, especially given that writers were explicitly prevented from detailing very much about the prequel era.

For Alderaan specifically, it makes much more sense for Alderaan to be a part of the story than for Anakin to be from Tatooine, which was something Lucas chose to do over. He did re-use a lot of ideas and imagery, it’s just that people nowadays credit that to Ring Theory or something rather than a lack of imagination or to fanservice.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Vladius said:

Channel72 said:

Sideburns of BoShek said:

I really liked FOTR at the time, and still prefer it to what we actually got. Though imagination and our projections in filling in the blanks often triumphs reality. I’d love to see an animation or comic book form of it, even fan made, but then is so much of that early “what if?” stuff I’d like to see, along the lines of “The Star Wars” comics from 2013/14.

A common element across most fan speculation about the Prequels is that our imaginations concocted stories almost entirely based on elements from the OT. Things like Alderaan, Captain Antilles, spice mines of Kessel, etc. But Lucas obviously wanted to make the Prequels unique, with new settings, new characters, and completely unexpected plot developments. And since it was Lucas’ creativity and imagination that created Star Wars in the first place, it seemed likely that he would come up with amazing new things that far surpassed the mediocre imagination of the average fan.

And indeed he did come up with lots of new, unexpected stuff. Things like Gungans, mysterious clone conspiracies, a “chosen one” prophecy, Qui-Gon Jinn, General Grievous, Dexter Jettster, pod racing, etc. I mean, who could have expected that Episode I would go in an entirely bizarre direction - telling a Kurosawa-influenced side story about two Jedi Knights protecting a young Queen from evil invaders - a story almost completely unrelated to anything that happens in the OT. Lucas obviously wanted to flex his creative muscles, defying fan expectations to such a degree that the whole thing came off as wacky instead of cool. In retrospect, the pre-Prequel fan expectations - derivative and straightforward as they often were - sound like a much better “rough sketch” for the Prequels than what we ultimately got.

Out of that list of unexpected stuff, the only thing that was universally liked and well handled (maybe) was podracing. “At least it did something different” is always a bad excuse for this kind of thing.

That’s not a bizarre direction for episode 1 at all. You’re not winning any points by namedropping “Kurosawa-influenced” by alluding to The Hidden Fortress when the original Star Wars in 1977 was already drawing on that setup so heavily. If anything the prequels ruined those elements by making the Jedi the FBI instead of samurai.

The developments weren’t that unexpected given that they are prequels and some of the material was already written. Everyone knew going in that Anakin would become Darth Vader, Obi Wan would be a main character and train Anakin, the Emperor would be a main character and corrupt Anakin, the Emperor and Vader would kill the Jedi minus Yoda and Obi Wan, Luke and Leia’s mother would be a main character and some kind of royalty, and Luke and Leia would be born and get hidden from Vader. It’s not really fair to any fans or writers to say that they had a failure of imagination for sticking to what was already well established, especially given that writers were explicitly prevented from detailing very much about the prequel era.

For Alderaan specifically, it makes much more sense for Alderaan to be a part of the story than for Anakin to be from Tatooine, which was something Lucas chose to do over. He did re-use a lot of ideas and imagery, it’s just that people nowadays credit that to Ring Theory or something rather than a lack of imagination or to fanservice.

I probably wasn’t clear enough, but that list of “unexpected stuff” was supposed to be a list of stupid things, not well-handled things. I mean, I included Dexter Jettser in there, which I thought made it obvious I was listing stupid stuff in the Prequels. The main point I wanted to make was that fan theories about the Prequels were way more derivative of the OT than Lucas’ actual Prequels, but that this was probably a good thing because, in practice, Lucas’ original ideas turned out to be so ridiculous/wacky that OT-derivative fan ideas probably would have been way better.

And I agree about Alderaan. I’ll never understand why Lucas created Naboo instead of just using Alderaan as one of the principal settings.

Author
Time

Channel72 said:

And I agree about Alderaan. I’ll never understand why Lucas created Naboo instead of just using Alderaan as one of the principal settings.

As much as I agree, I can’t help but feel that if he had done this, we’d be calling it the prime example of “universe shrinkage”

ROTJ Storyboard Reconstruction Project

Author
Time
 (Edited)

timdiggerm said:

Channel72 said:

And I agree about Alderaan. I’ll never understand why Lucas created Naboo instead of just using Alderaan as one of the principal settings.

As much as I agree, I can’t help but feel that if he had done this, we’d be calling it the prime example of “universe shrinkage”

Well, we do say that overuse of Tatooine causes “universe shrinkage”, so I see your point. But I suspect that using Alderaan in the Prequels would be received mostly positively, mostly because we never actually saw Alderaan in the OT, and Ben Kenobi’s association with Alderaan as recounted in A New Hope sort of primed the audience to expect that Alderaan would have some key role in the Prequels.

Author
Time

timdiggerm said:

Channel72 said:

And I agree about Alderaan. I’ll never understand why Lucas created Naboo instead of just using Alderaan as one of the principal settings.

As much as I agree, I can’t help but feel that if he had done this, we’d be calling it the prime example of “universe shrinkage”

If Anakin wasn’t from Tatooine, Anakin didn’t build C3PO, and Jabba the Hutt, Boba Fett, and Chewbacca didn’t appear, it would be completely fine and no one would have said anything or been any the wiser.

Author
Time

Vladius said:

timdiggerm said:

Channel72 said:

And I agree about Alderaan. I’ll never understand why Lucas created Naboo instead of just using Alderaan as one of the principal settings.

As much as I agree, I can’t help but feel that if he had done this, we’d be calling it the prime example of “universe shrinkage”

If Anakin wasn’t from Tatooine, Anakin didn’t build C3PO, and Jabba the Hutt, Boba Fett, and Chewbacca didn’t appear, it would be completely fine and no one would have said anything or been any the wiser.

Personally, I am of the opinion that having Anakin being born on Tatooine was actually a good idea. A New Hope heavily implies that he was born and grew up on Tatooine, especially when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen thought that Anakin should have remained on Tatooine and not get involved with the Jedi. Why should have Anakin remained on Tatooine if he didn’t grew up there? I think it’s clear that Obi-Wan’s sentence about Owen’s wishes implied that Anakin was born on Tatooine.

“I know that all of you like to dream about space and are a little bit of envious of us. But you know what? We’re also envious of you. We are exploring space, but it’s only the beginning. Planets and unknown worlds are awaiting you. You will continue to storm the Universe.”

— Yuri Gagarin

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Spartacus01 said:

Vladius said:

timdiggerm said:

Channel72 said:

And I agree about Alderaan. I’ll never understand why Lucas created Naboo instead of just using Alderaan as one of the principal settings.

As much as I agree, I can’t help but feel that if he had done this, we’d be calling it the prime example of “universe shrinkage”

If Anakin wasn’t from Tatooine, Anakin didn’t build C3PO, and Jabba the Hutt, Boba Fett, and Chewbacca didn’t appear, it would be completely fine and no one would have said anything or been any the wiser.

Personally, I am of the opinion that having Anakin being born on Tatooine was actually a good idea. A New Hope heavily implies that he was born and grew up on Tatooine, especially when Obi-Wan tells Luke that Owen thought that Anakin should have remained on Tatooine and not get involved with the Jedi. Why should have Anakin remained on Tatooine if he didn’t grew up there? I think it’s clear that Obi-Wan’s sentence about Owen’s wishes implied that Anakin was born on Tatooine.

You’re right, A New Hope pretty clearly implies Anakin was originally from Tatooine. The problem is that A New Hope was written under the assumption that Anakin and Vader were separate characters. When George Lucas wrote that dialogue, he was not thinking that Luke was actually hiding from anything. Luke was just an average farmboy who happened to live where he lived. But by the time Return of the Jedi was written, Luke was now Vader’s son, and was sent to Tatooine as an infant because it was a remote location far from the reach of the Empire. But this change to the backstory implies that Vader/Anakin shouldn’t be from Tatooine, because otherwise sending Luke to hide there comes off as a really bad decision. I mean, there’s a reason that modern “witness protection” programs choose locations completely detached from any former associates of the protected witness, and require a complete identity change.

In my opinion, once Vader and Anakin were merged into a single character, Anakin should no longer be from Tatooine. I’d rather just ignore or reinterpret Obi Wan’s line in A New Hope, rather than have to squirm around coming up with excuses for why anyone would hide Luke on the same planet his father grew up on.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Channel72 said:

You’re right, A New Hope pretty clearly implies Anakin was originally from Tatooine. The problem is that A New Hope was written under the assumption that Anakin and Vader were separate characters. When George Lucas wrote that dialogue, he was not thinking that Luke was actually hiding from anything. Luke was just an average farmboy who happened to live where he lived. But by the time Return of the Jedi was written, Luke was now Vader’s son, and was sent to Tatooine as an infant because it was a remote location far from the reach of the Empire. But this change to the backstory implies that Vader/Anakin shouldn’t be from Tatooine, because otherwise sending Luke to hide there comes off as a really bad decision. I mean, there’s a reason that modern “witness protection” programs choose locations completely detached from any former associates of the protected witness, and require a complete identity change.

In my opinion, once Vader and Anakin were merged into a single character, Anakin should no longer be from Tatooine. I’d rather just ignore or reinterpret Obi Wan’s line in A New Hope, rather than have to squirm around coming up with excuses for why anyone would hide Luke on the same planet his father grew up on.

I see where you’re coming from, but I think Anakin being born on Tatooine actually works really well for the story. First off, Obi-Wan’s dialogue with Luke in A New Hope is already filled with half-truths, but not everything he says is a lie. He’s protecting Luke from the harsh reality of his father’s fall, but there’s still truth in his words. If we change where Anakin was born, it could make Obi-Wan seem even more deceptive, which I think would undermine his role as a mentor. Keeping Tatooine as Anakin’s birthplace helps maintain a level of trust in what Obi-Wan is telling Luke. Plus, there’s something poetic about both Anakin and Luke starting their journeys on the same desert planet. It creates a strong narrative symmetry that ties their stories together. Anakin’s life starts on Tatooine, and so does Luke’s. This makes Luke’s journey more poignant because he’s unknowingly retracing his father’s steps, only to find his own path in the end.

Now, hiding Luke on Tatooine might seem risky at first — after all, it’s the same planet where Anakin was born — but that’s what makes it so clever. Anakin had such a rough time on Tatooine — being a slave, leaving his mother behind, and eventually losing her — that he’d have no desire to go back. The trauma he experienced there creates a psychological barrier, which makes Tatooine the last place he’d want to revisit. In that sense, it’s actually the perfect place to hide Luke because it plays on Anakin’s deepest pain and memories, keeping him away. So, even though the decision of hiding Luke on Tatooine might seem nonsensical at first, it works perfectly if you introduce a trauma that caused Anakin to not want to return to the planet, which is exactly what Attack of the Clones does. Also, you don’t have to forget that, sometimes, the best place to hide something is in plain sight.

“I know that all of you like to dream about space and are a little bit of envious of us. But you know what? We’re also envious of you. We are exploring space, but it’s only the beginning. Planets and unknown worlds are awaiting you. You will continue to storm the Universe.”

— Yuri Gagarin

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Spartacus01 said:

First off, Obi-Wan’s dialogue with Luke in A New Hope is already filled with half-truths, but not everything he says is a lie. He’s protecting Luke from the harsh reality of his father’s fall, but there’s still truth in his words. If we change where Anakin was born, it could make Obi-Wan seem even more deceptive, which I think would undermine his role as a mentor.

Eh… I think the dialogue in A New Hope is just barely vague enough that we could weasel our way out of making this dialogue require Anakin to be from Tatooine. The relevant line in the script is “That’s what your uncle told you. He didn’t hold with your father’s ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.

So that’s it… that’s the only line that implies Anakin is from Tatooine. It’s implied indirectly, because Obi Wan says “stayed here”, and the current “here” in that scene is the planet Tatooine. But this is inexact enough that we could interpret it as a slight grammatical blunder on Obi Wan’s part. He could have used “here” somewhat incorrectly to mean whatever location Kenobi/Anakin departed from before fighting in the Clone Wars. (Or you could always just do a fan edit that removes the words “stayed here and” so the sentence reads “Thought he should have not gotten involved.” Mostly kidding.)

Anyway, I know that’s really clumsy, but the thing is, as things stand now with the Prequels, Obi Wan’s line here is already like 95% a lie. Anakin and Owen barely had any relationship - they met for a few hours in Episode 2 - and certainly Owen never expressed any opinions about Anakin’s “ideals” or thought he should have stayed “here” at any point. Owen didn’t even know Anakin until after Anakin already left Tatooine and became a Jedi. So the line is already hopelessly broken.

Regardless, I do agree that the original line of dialogue does, as you say, imply that Anakin is from Tatooine. But due to various later retcons, Anakin being from Tatooine was no longer tenable, in my opinion, and keeping Tatooine as his home planet resulted in a worse outcome than simply ignoring the implications of that one word “here” in Obi Wan’s line in A New Hope.

Now, hiding Luke on Tatooine might seem risky at first — after all, it’s the same planet where Anakin was born — but that’s what makes it so clever. Anakin had such a rough time on Tatooine — being a slave, leaving his mother behind, and eventually losing her — that he’d have no desire to go back. The trauma he experienced there creates a psychological barrier, which makes Tatooine the last place he’d want to revisit. In that sense, it’s actually the perfect place to hide Luke because it plays on Anakin’s deepest pain and memories, keeping him away. So, even though the decision of hiding Luke on Tatooine might seem nonsensical at first, it works perfectly if you introduce a trauma that caused Anakin to not want to return to the planet, which is exactly what Attack of the Clones does. Also, you don’t have to forget that, sometimes, the best place to hide something is in plain sight.

I mean, I’ve heard this before. Vader wouldn’t want to go back to Tatooine because childhood trauma or whatever. I mean… that’s really just pure speculation. You don’t know that. You could guess this would be the case, but it’s also possible Vader doesn’t give a shit. He didn’t seem to care when the Tantive IV showed up on Tatooine at any rate.

Regardless, even if this is true, why would anyone risk it? There’s probably at least a million other remote locations similar to Tatooine. Granted, Kenobi knew some people on Tatooine, so that factored in I guess. But relying on Vader’s continuing trauma to keep him away from Tatooine is a huge risk. I sure hope Vader doesn’t have a therapist.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Channel72 said:

Eh… I think the dialogue in A New Hope is just barely vague enough that we could weasel our way out of making this dialogue require Anakin to be from Tatooine. The relevant line in the script is “That’s what your uncle told you. He didn’t hold with your father’s ideals. Thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved.

So that’s it… that’s the only line that implies Anakin is from Tatooine. It’s implied indirectly, because Obi Wan says “stayed here”, and the current “here” in that scene is the planet Tatooine. But this is inexact enough that we could interpret it as a slight grammatical blunder on Obi Wan’s part. He could have used “here” somewhat incorrectly to mean whatever location Kenobi/Anakin departed from before fighting in the Clone Wars. (Or you could always just do a fan edit that removes the words “stayed here and” so the sentence reads “Thought he should have not gotten involved.” Mostly kidding.)

Anyway, I know that’s really clumsy, but the thing is, as things stand now with the Prequels, Obi Wan’s line here is already like 95% a lie. Anakin and Owen barely had any relationship - they met for a few hours in Episode 2 - and certainly Owen never expressed any opinions about Anakin’s “ideals” or thought he should have stayed “here” at any point. Owen didn’t even know Anakin until after Anakin already left Tatooine and became a Jedi. So the line is already hopelessly broken.

Regardless, I do agree that the original line of dialogue does, as you say, imply that Anakin is from Tatooine. But due to various later retcons, Anakin being from Tatooine was no longer tenable, in my opinion, and keeping Tatooine as his home planet resulted in a worse outcome than simply ignoring the implications of that one word “here” in Obi Wan’s line in A New Hope.

Well, I don’t think that the Prequels necessarily broke Obi-Wan’s dialogue from A New Hope. It is true that Anakin and Owen didn’t have any meaningful relationship in the Prequels, but that does not mean that Owen could not have his own opinions about Anakin and the fact that he decided to join the Jedi. You don’t have to forget that Owen lived with Shmi for a considerable amount of time, and since he was her stepson, she likely told him everything about Anakin and the events of The Phantom Menace. So, it is entirely possible that Owen formed his opinions about Anakin’s decision to join the Jedi exclusively on the basis of what Shmi told him. Not to mention, the fact that we don’t see Owen openly expressing his thoughts in Attack of the Clones does not mean that he didn’t express them at all. It is entirely possible to conceive that Owen and Obi-Wan might have had an off-screen conversation between Revenge of the Sith and A New Hope, in which Owen openly expressed to Obi-Wan his thoughts about Anakin’s decision to join the Jedi Order, which is why Obi-Wan is aware of his opinions despite the fact that the two didn’t meet in Attack of the Clones. So again, I don’t think that the Prequels break the dialogue. Yes, you have to concede that some things happened off-screen, but it’s not like the Prequels outright contradict Obi-Wan’s dialogue. And if I have to be completely honest, I find my explanation much more consistent, sensible and less far-fetched than the one you hypothesized for Anakin’s alternative background, so I guess we have to agree to disagree here.

Now, hiding Luke on Tatooine might seem risky at first — after all, it’s the same planet where Anakin was born — but that’s what makes it so clever. Anakin had such a rough time on Tatooine — being a slave, leaving his mother behind, and eventually losing her — that he’d have no desire to go back. The trauma he experienced there creates a psychological barrier, which makes Tatooine the last place he’d want to revisit. In that sense, it’s actually the perfect place to hide Luke because it plays on Anakin’s deepest pain and memories, keeping him away. So, even though the decision of hiding Luke on Tatooine might seem nonsensical at first, it works perfectly if you introduce a trauma that caused Anakin to not want to return to the planet, which is exactly what Attack of the Clones does. Also, you don’t have to forget that, sometimes, the best place to hide something is in plain sight.

I mean, I’ve heard this before. Vader wouldn’t want to go back to Tatooine because childhood trauma or whatever. I mean… that’s really just pure speculation. You don’t know that. You could guess this would be the case, but it’s also possible Vader doesn’t give a shit. He didn’t seem to care when the Tantive IV showed up on Tatooine at any rate.

Regardless, even if this is true, why would anyone risk it? There’s probably at least a million other remote locations similar to Tatooine. Granted, Kenobi knew some people on Tatooine, so that factored in I guess. But relying on Vader’s continuing trauma to keep him away from Tatooine is a huge risk. I sure hope Vader doesn’t have a therapist.

I get what you’re saying about Vader’s trauma and how it’s speculative to assume he would avoid Tatooine because of it. But let’s consider the context here. Anakin’s experience on Tatooine wasn’t just some minor inconvenience, it was a defining part of his fall to the Dark Side. The death of his mother and his subsequent massacre of the Tusken Raiders were pivotal moments that deeply scarred him. These events weren’t just painful; they were shameful. Anakin’s whole transformation into Darth Vader involved burying the parts of himself that were weak, that felt pain, or that were tied to his past as Anakin Skywalker. Tatooine is loaded with all those memories — it’s where he was a slave, where he lost his mother, and where he tasted the Dark Side for the first time. Now, you’re right that we can’t know for certain how Vader feels about Tatooine, but the story strongly suggests that he’s driven by his desire to suppress and forget his past. His entire existence as Vader is about rejecting the man he once was, and Tatooine represents everything he wants to forget. Sure, it’s possible that he might not care or that he could rationally decide to go back if needed, but the point is, it’s extremely unlikely he would ever have a reason to. Tatooine is a backwater planet with no strategic importance, and from Vader’s perspective, there’s nothing there worth his attention. And when it comes to the Tantive IV showing up on Tatooine in A New Hope, Vader was pursuing Leia and the Death Star plans — his focus was on the mission, not on the planet itself. Tatooine was incidental, not a destination of personal interest to him.

As for why they would risk hiding Luke there, I think it’s less about relying solely on Vader’s trauma and more about Tatooine being a perfect combination of factors. It’s remote, insignificant, and happens to be where Obi-Wan can keep an eye on Luke while blending in. Plus, hiding in plain sight is often the best strategy, as I have already said. You’re right that there are probably a million other remote locations, but Tatooine is unique because it’s the one place that has this psychological barrier for Vader, along with the practical benefit of Obi-Wan’s familiarity with the planet, and a great distance from the center of the galaxy. Sure, there’s a risk, but every decision in war involves some level of risk. The key is that this risk is mitigated by the fact that Tatooine is the last place anyone would expect Luke to be hidden, including Vader. And let’s be honest, even if Vader did have a therapist, it’s not like he’s going to be working through his trauma in a way that would lead him back to his childhood home — his whole character arc is about running from that pain, not confronting it. If Vader did have a therapist, he would have not been a Sith Lord in the first place. So while we can’t say for sure that Vader would never go back to Tatooine, the odds were clearly in favor of him avoiding it, making it a clever and effective choice for hiding Luke.

“I know that all of you like to dream about space and are a little bit of envious of us. But you know what? We’re also envious of you. We are exploring space, but it’s only the beginning. Planets and unknown worlds are awaiting you. You will continue to storm the Universe.”

— Yuri Gagarin

Author
Time
 (Edited)

^ Well, I mean, if I were Obi Wan or Yoda at the end of Revenge of the Sith thinking about what to do going forward, I would have A LOT of problems with hiding Luke on Tatooine. Kenobi’s plan is actually even worse than simply hiding Luke on Tatooine. He’s not only hiding Luke on Tatooine, but hiding him with a person that has a direct family connection to Anakin. Kenobi didn’t just throw Luke at some random orphanage in Mos Espa. He placed him with Anakin’s step-brother Owen. I mean… talk about a witness protection disaster. There are so many risks involved here. It’s possible somebody from Owen’s or Anakin’s past might one day blab about this boy appearing out of nowhere, or any number of things or past associates of Anakin or Owen could accidentally leak information that could ultimately alert Vader to investigate. Even if there’s only like a 0.001% chance of it happening, why take the risk? Tatooine is one of the few places in the Galaxy with people who used to know Anakin.

I mean ultimately all of this is a big writing kludge, because A New Hope was never written with the idea that Luke is supposed to be hiding. It makes no sense his last name is still Skywalker. People try to justify this with various excuses, like “maybe Skywalker is a common name!” or whatever. Again, I don’t care, because why risk it? If your last name is Smith and you go into witness protection, they will still change your name. They certainly changed Leia’s last name.

As things stand, the explanations you provide are probably the best we can do given the material we must work with, but it’s still kind of a kludge and an unfortunate side effect of the retcon that Vader is Luke’s father. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the idea that Vader is Luke’s father. It’s one of the best retcons in movie history. But it does come with certain unfortunate side effects like making Luke’s living situation and the fact his name is still “Skywalker” seem absurd in retrospect.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Channel72 said:

^ Well, I mean, if I were Obi Wan or Yoda at the end of Revenge of the Sith thinking about what to do going forward, I would have A LOT of problems with hiding Luke on Tatooine. Kenobi’s plan is actually even worse than simply hiding Luke on Tatooine. He’s not only hiding Luke on Tatooine, but hiding him with a person that has a direct family connection to Anakin. Kenobi didn’t just throw Luke at some random orphanage in Mos Espa. He placed him with Anakin’s step-brother Owen. I mean… talk about a witness protection disaster. There are so many risks involved here. It’s possible somebody from Owen’s or Anakin’s past might one day blab about this boy appearing out of nowhere, or any number of things or past associates of Anakin or Owen could accidentally leak information that could ultimately alert Vader to investigate. Even if there’s only like a 0.001% chance of it happening, why take the risk? Tatooine is one of the few places in the Galaxy with people who used to know Anakin.

I mean ultimately all of this is a big writing kludge, because A New Hope was never written with the idea that Luke is supposed to be hiding. It makes no sense his last name is still Skywalker. People try to justify this with various excuses, like “maybe Skywalker is a common name!” or whatever. Again, I don’t care, because why risk it? If your last name is Smith and you go into witness protection, they will still change your name. They certainly changed Leia’s last name.

As things stand, the explanations you provide are probably the best we can do given the material we must work with, but it’s still kind of a kludge and an unfortunate side effect of the retcon that Vader is Luke’s father. Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely love the idea that Vader is Luke’s father. It’s one of the best retcons in movie history. But it does come with certain unfortunate side effects like making Luke’s living situation and the fact his name is still “Skywalker” seem absurd in retrospect.

You know, I think it’s not that difficult to explain why they decided to keep Luke’s original last name. If you think about it, Shmi’s last name was also Skywalker, which means there’s probably a whole side of the Skywalker family that we know nothing about. After all, for Shmi to be called Skywalker, her father had to have that last name too, and so did her grandfather, her great-grandfather, and so on. So, it’s entirely possible that there could be other members of the Skywalker family on Tatooine or perhaps other planets, and they probably decided that Luke could keep his last name for this reason. Just because someone is called Skywalker doesn’t mean they’re directly related to Anakin and Padmé, so Obi-Wan and Yoda probably thought Luke might have been confused with another distant member of the Skywalker family who had nothing to do with Anakin. And it’s not like Vader was actively going around the galaxy looking for his distant cousins ​​or other family members, he wanted to forget everything about his past and his family.

“I know that all of you like to dream about space and are a little bit of envious of us. But you know what? We’re also envious of you. We are exploring space, but it’s only the beginning. Planets and unknown worlds are awaiting you. You will continue to storm the Universe.”

— Yuri Gagarin

Author
Time

I’m less concerned with the in-universe logic of leaving Luke on Tatooine, which I’m fine with. I just think that making Anakin on Tatooine a major part of the story is an out of universe decision that makes the world seem smaller.

The virgin birth, step family, having to leave to become a Jedi thing also makes all of it wonky. It would be a lot more straightforward if

  1. Owen was Anakin’s actual brother, or at least his friend, and they grew up together. Maybe they’re not even from Tatooine natively but they ended up there for some reason.
  2. You could become a Jedi anywhere and didn’t have to fly to Coruscant and stay there permanently. Anakin was a Jedi on Tatooine and then when the Clone Wars broke out he decided to leave on his damn fool idealistic crusade.

Otherwise it’s like Channel72 said. None of them have enough time together for their comments and actions to fit what actually happened.