A lot of that is an improvement over what I wrote, but you definitely need to replace “unwanted children” with “dark children”.
I’m also not sure what Kylo’s motivation is in your version. Yeah, he wants to kill Palpatine with her, but then what? That’s why I did a callback to TLJ in my version. He still clearly wants to let old things die, and wants Rey by his side regardless of the recent revelations.
I like this idea, it seems like a great way to include Rey Palpatine in a way that makes a little more sense. I think it would be cool to also do a complete Rey nobody version that focuses on the Dyad and the rule of two, removing the Palpatine connection entirely. There’s so many possibilities now!
Indeed! There will always be two versions, Rey Palpatine and Rey Nobody, but now the Palpatine version can stand as a worthy alternative to the admittedly more interesting nobody version, and be perhaps more robust because it uses more of TROS’s plot scaffolding.
A lot of that is an improvement over what I wrote, but you definitely need to replace “unwanted children” with “dark children”.
I’m also not sure what Kylo’s motivation is in your version. Yeah, he wants to kill Palpatine with her, but then what? That’s why I did a callback to TLJ in my version. He still clearly wants to let old things die, and wants Rey by his side regardless of the recent revelations.
Fair points.
Kylo’s motivation is a bit of a black box for sure. He’s being pulled in a bunch of directions, with his desire to be like Vader and serve the Emperor, his desire to let everything die and do his own thing with the galaxy, and his desire to be with Rey even though she is a Palpatine and will presumably be a continuation of Palpatine’s rule if she accepts Kylo’s offer.
Maybe since she is revealed to be a Palpatine, he considers that their union is something new, and like a political marriage in the Middle Ages, the union of a Skywalker and a Palpatine will bring true peace to the galaxy.
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because he saw what you would become. You don’t just have power. You have his power. You’re his clone.”
“For generations, this war has pitted Skywalker against Palpatine. But we are connected, Rey, and we can heal these wounds of war. Let’s destroy the past…let it die, and write a new future for the galaxy.”
“We can kill him, Rey…together.”
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Yeah, but then you miss out on the explanation of Palpatine hunting down other cloned children of his, which is arguably more relevant to the plot.
I like this idea, it seems like a great way to include Rey Palpatine in a way that makes a little more sense. I think it would be cool to also do a complete Rey nobody version that focuses on the Dyad and the rule of two, removing the Palpatine connection entirely. There’s so many possibilities now!
Yup, I drafted what that would look like a few pages back. At that point, I’d honestly have a hard choice picking between the two options.
DOUBLE POST
I guess we’ll need to try and mash these two sentiments into one Frankenstein’s statement. It will take judicious word choice and a lot of editing, but perhaps it can be done.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I guess I’ll start with a draft:
“Palpatine’s twisted experiments to cheat death created Snoke, but also you. But to secure his claim to the Sith throne, he was willing to do anything, even terminate his dark progeny. Our bond is beyond that, Rey. The past won’t die off. Not anymore. We have to kill it. Together.”
Palpatine’s dark experiments to cheat death created Snoke, and you. But even after his rebirth he’d do anything to keep the Sith throne, even killing the heirs he created. But our bond goes beyond that, Rey. The past won’t fade… we must end it, together.
The Star Wars Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX | Rogue One · Solo
What was first just a dream has become a frightening reality…
I do like your modifications to the beginning. But my wording at the end is very specifically referencing the following: “Let the past die. Kill it, if you have to. That’s the only way to become what you were meant to be.”
I found it ironic how the past is quite literally coming back to life in this movie. He’s basically telling her that standing idly by isn’t going to solve her problems here. She has to confront him. Which, funnily enough, is the same advice Luke later gives her.
Here’s where I’m standing atm: “The experiments to resurrect Palpatine created Snoke, and you. But after his rebirth, Palpatine would keep the Sith throne at any cost, even his heirs. Our bond goes beyond all this, Rey. The past won’t die on its own. We must kill it. And make a new future for ourselves.”
“Snoke was the only strand-cast who played Palpatine’s game: causing strife in the galaxy and destroying the Skywalker legacy. But you and I are more than that legacy, Rey. Let’s destroy the past and make our own fates.”
(removes helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
"I know.
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because you, like Snoke, were created by the Sith in the image of their fallen Emperor. You…are his clone.”
“Our masters tried to destroy us, fearing what we could become. But the bond between us is something new, something they did not foresee. A Palpatine and a Skywalker together, balanced in darkness and in light.”
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
There might be enough room to squeeze another sentence at the end there. Maybe something about the throne? I’m not sure.
EDIT: Never mind, I misread
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. Darkness is in your blood. Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“You were right…your parents were no one. Used as livestock by the Emperor’s cult.”
“Don’t!”
“The woman you called mother…she was merely a host…”
“I don’t want this!”
“…for a dark creation…”
“No!”
“But a creation that they loved.”
(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My Love…be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here…I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”
“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey…I know what happened to them.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“They sought sanctuary on Jakku, among the friends and disciples of Luke Skywalker. They almost made it. But your parents couldn’t escape the shadow of the Sith.”
(Rey sees her parents get killed.)
“So that’s where you are.”
“You know why the Emperor wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”
…
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because his spirit could possess only one body, out of the hundreds his followers had created. Rey…you’re a clone.”
“You were created to sit upon the throne of the Sith, a willing vessel for the Emperor’s spirit. But what he couldn’t foresee was our connection in the Force. We can kill him, Rey, destroy the Sith…and bring a new order to the galaxy.”
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I love that one. Explains everything very neatly. No recommendations.
I’d just modify slightly the lines:
“But a creation that they loved nonetheless.”
And “They sought sanctuary on Jakku, chasing rumours toward allies of Luke Skywalker."
(This one ties a bit more closely to Lor San Tekka, and implies they were maybe trying to get her all the way into Luke’s protection)
Also perhaps “Because out of hundreds of his followers’ experiments, only one clone body became viable. Rey, you’re an unwanted clone… and that makes you a threat."
I like your first two suggestions. But, again, Rey must be viable for the sake of the plot. Nev’s explanation makes the most sense there.
What I like most about this idea is that it isn’t a complete retcon of TLJ. It’s just a clever way of taking the reveals in that movie, leaving them (mostly) the way they are, and expanding on them. The people she knows as her parents are the most unknown people in the galaxy - probably getting drunk all the time to bide their time. Kylo misinterprets currency being handed between Unkar and them as her being sold, but they instead paid for her to be looked after while they searched for Lor San Tekka. Her vision in TLJ’s mirror cave can’t show her parents because she doesn’t have any. Snoke likely knew her true identity and that’s why he wanted her killed - more competition for himself. And most importantly, it’s a dramatic reveal that is so distinct from merely being a descendant of somebody evil. It stings so much more to be told you, for all intents and purposes, ARE them.
I like your first two suggestions. But, again, Rey must be viable for the sake of the plot. Nev’s explanation makes the most sense there.
What I like most about this idea is that it isn’t a complete retcon of TLJ. It’s just a clever way of taking the reveals in that movie, leaving them (mostly) the way they are, and expanding on them. The people she knows as her parents are the most unknown people in the galaxy - probably getting drunk all the time to bide their time. Kylo misinterprets currency being handed between Unkar and them as her being sold, but they instead paid for her to be looked after while they searched for Lor San Tekka. Her vision in TLJ’s mirror cave can’t show her parents because she doesn’t have any. Snoke likely knew her true identity and that’s why he wanted her killed - more competition for himself. And most importantly, it’s a dramatic reveal that is so distinct from merely being a descendant of somebody evil. It stings so much more to be told you, for all intents and purposes, ARE them.
this.
Just a few changes then:
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. Darkness is in your blood. Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“You were right…your parents were no one. Used as livestock by the Emperor’s cult.”
“Don’t!”
“The woman you called mother…she was merely a host…”
“I don’t want this!”
“…carrying a dark experiment.”
“No!”
“But she loved you nonetheless.”
(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My Love…be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here…I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”
“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey…I know what happened to them.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“They sought sanctuary on Jakku, among the friends and disciples of Luke Skywalker. They almost made it. But your parents couldn’t escape their destiny.”
(Rey sees her parents get killed.)
“So that’s where you are.”
“You know why the Emperor wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”
…
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because his spirit chose another vessel, out of the hundreds his followers had created. Rey…you’re a clone.”
“You were created to sit upon the throne of the Sith, a vessel for the Emperor’s corrupted spirit. But what he couldn’t foresee was our connection in the Force. We can kill him, Rey, destroy the Sith…and bring a new order to the galaxy.”
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
…
One thing that I think should be different from Ascendant is to keep Palpatine’s line about spirit possession where it is in the theatrical version. In Ascendant Palps uses the spirit transfer threat to prevent Kylo from killing him, but that isn’t strictly needed and it may make more sense if only Rey is intended as a host to his spirit. And because we’re establishing the concept in the hangar scene, it doesn’t come out of nowhere when Palpatine refers to this later on, but it becomes a further wrinkle in how Rey must destroy him.
There is still the issue of how Rey can kill a spirit that won’t stay dead, but maybe she can do it as a Jedi with their help. That’s still a thing that doesn’t sit right with me.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I’ve always interpreted the ghosts holding up their hands as them using the Force to keep Palpatine’s spirit trapped within his body. I’m not sure how we can make that more clear. Maybe a VFX change around Palpy? As for your other point, the reason Kylo needs to be the initial target of Palpatine is because it doesn’t make much sense for him to still want to kill Rey at this point, otherwise. Kylo is already closer to the dark, a more suitable host. He’s spent the past 20 years twisting his mind with the voices in his head. It’s why he mentions that the “Princess of Alderaan has disrupted [his] plan” after Kylo becomes Ben.
The only other complaint I have is that it might not be extremely clear Rey’s mother did give birth to her, but isn’t genetically related. We’re trying to avoid the false impression that they simply adopted a clone of Palps, because the Sith cult could do that themselves.
EDIT: I think I also preferred that they “couldn’t escape the shadow of the Sith.” Destiny doesn’t usually relate to death.
Could we also switch one line to:
“Rey…I learned what happened to them.”
Makes it more explicitly recent.
I’d still advocate for her parents “searching” for allies of Luke. They didn’t find them, but they were on the trail.
A couple of other thoughts:
"Because his spirit chose another vessel, out of the hundreds his followers had created. Rey…you’re his clone.”
“You were created to sit upon the throne of the Sith, a vessel for the Emperor’s lingering essence. But what he couldn’t foresee was our connection in the Force. We can kill him, Rey, destroy the Sith…and bring a new order to the galaxy."
To solve the problem of why you can kill his spirit this time if not last time, perhaps instead of ‘lingering’ there you could use a synonym for ‘fading’, perhaps ‘dwindling’.
I’d still like to see it made explicit that the rejected hosts were considered threats (and thus killed) though.
I was the one that suggested making Rey a new chosen one over on the Rey Nobody thread, I think it covers all the issues Neverar outlined:
Making that list of plot and theme issues, here are the major ones as I see it:
1: Rey needs some inner darkness, whether that be from early life experience or from an ‘evil’ bloodline.
2: Rey needs a reason to have been left on Jakku, living next to several plot-important ships/places.
3: Rey needs a reason that choosing the Skywalker family name is important to her.
4: There should be a reason that Palpatine in particular is a fitting nemesis for Rey.
5: There should be a reason why a Jedi Hunter would wish to find Rey as a child.
With this revelation Rey would essentially be a new Anakin, with the same potential to fall and plunge the universe into darkness like Vader did. It also gives her another reason for choosing the Skywalker name, as it belonged to her previous incarnation. It makes sense Palpatine would consider her a nemesis and would try to hunt her down. In this version of events, Rey’s conception would be a vergence in the Force, a direct result of Palpatine cheating death and undoing the destruction of the Sith. As for point 2, this reveal doesn’t require an explanation for Rey to be on Jakku, she’s the daughter of junk traders who lived on a random junkyard planet, and that’d be the end of it.
I agree with RogueLeader’s take that we shouldn’t be focusing on Rey’s backstory and making things more convoluted, this reveal would put less emphasis on Rey’s past, it doesn’t matter where she comes from or who she used to be, which is the heart of TLJ’s reveal. As Maz puts it: “The belonging you seek is not behind you, it is ahead”. Instead of threading over the same ground TLJ covered, we’re adding a new dimension to Rey’s character that is more relevant to her present and future, as heir to the Jedi or heir to the Sith. This movie is already bringing back Palpatine as the big bad guy, so it makes sense to bring back the chosen one as well and bring things full circle.
I had a hard time thinking how this could be implemented, since it’d be awkward for Kylo to reveal this and their dyad connection at the same time, but I hadn’t thought about just outright exising the term dyad. I think this would work even better with this reveal, since their connection is apparent without the need for a specific term, they’re both related to Anakin, one through spirit and one through blood.
I would ordinarily agree with you Burbin - your idea makes the most sense in terms of storytelling, but we are working with extremely limited material in this movie. Which is why I’m leaning toward opposing anything that doesn’t have Rey related to Palpatine in some way. Anything else would simply have to cut too much out of the movie for my liking. Plus, I’m concerned about how the upcoming Rey movie will handle this issue. I think the idea we’ve come up with here is a solid middle ground between Rey’s parents being nobody and her still being a Palpatine. Because in no world is the “son” of the Emperor ever nobody. It also makes Palpatine’s return make 1000x more sense than what we currently have in Ascendant. Here’s where I’m at rn:
“Rey….wherever you are…You are hard to find.
“You are hard to get rid of.”
“I pushed you in the desert because I needed to see it…I needed you to see it…who you are. Darkness is in your blood. Rey…”
“You’re lying.”
“You were right…your parents were no one. Vulnerable to the alluring promises of a Sith cult.”
“Don’t!”
“The woman you called mother…she was merely the host…”
“I don’t want this!”
“…for birthing a dark experiment.”
“No!”
“But she loved you nonetheless.”
(Rey sees the vision of her parents and her abandonment.)
“My Love…be brave.”
“You’ll be safe here…I promise.”
“Come back! Nooo!”
“They paid for your protection…in more than one way.”
“Stop talking.”
“Rey…I learned what happened to them.”
(Cutaway to heroes capture)
“They sought sanctuary on Jakku, chasing rumors of a congregation dedicated to Skywalker’s Jedi. But your parents couldn’t escape the long shadow of the Sith.”
(Rey sees her parents get killed.)
“So that’s where you are.”
“You know why the Emperor wanted you dead. I’ll come tell you.”
…
“Why did the Emperor come for me? Why did he want to kill a child? Tell me.”
“Because his spirit chose another vessel, rendering the hundreds created by his followers as threats to his rule. Rey, you… are his clone.”
“You were created to sit upon the throne of the Sith, a vessel for the Emperor’s conjured spirit. But what he couldn’t foresee was our connection in the Force. We can kill him, Rey, destroy the Sith…and bring a new order to the galaxy.”
(Removes his helmet)
“You know what you need to do. You know.”
“I know.”
I would ordinarily agree with you Burbin - your idea makes the most sense in terms of storytelling, but we are working with extremely limited material in this movie. Which is why I’m leaning toward opposing anything that doesn’t have Rey related to Palpatine in some way. Anything else would simply have to cut too much out of the movie for my liking. Plus, I’m concerned about how the upcoming Rey movie will handle this issue. I think the idea we’ve come up with here is a solid middle ground between Rey’s parents being nobody and her still being a Palpatine. Because in no world is the “son” of the Emperor ever nobody. It also makes Palpatine’s return make 1000x more sense than what we currently have in Ascendant.
I just don’t see much gain from making these changes. You’re coming up with a very complicated backstory that doesn’t really fix much besides making it clear Palpatine didn’t actually have sex. I don’t see much difference between revealing Rey is a Palpatine clone homunculus and just revealing she’s her granddaughter, in fact you’re just skipping over Rey’s dad, who is canonically a Palpatine clone homunculus, so you’re just removing the implied familial relation but everything else is pretty much the same. This doesn’t address the core issue most people had with Rey Palpatine, which is how it undermines the entire buildup from the previous movies for a cheap reveal that comes out of left field, and how it basically erases the big revelation from The Last Jedi by adding a buch of extra backstory that goes entirely against it. If anything this change is more egregious since it goes into even more painstaking detail about how nothing in TLJ’s revelation was true at all.