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Unusual Sequel Trilogy Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 64

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I don’t know if I’ve talked about this before and if I have it’s been a long time, but having two Saga films take place back to back just kinda irks on an irrational level. Thus, I’d like to edit the films so as to insert a 1 year gap. Rey and Chewie spend the year scouring Ach-To for Luke’s location, and since in my version there never was a big laser pointed at D’Qar, it’s reasonable to think the First Order would take a year to find it. This change wouldn’t accomplish much, but it would feel more in keeping with the Saga’s style. Then again, so would changing the title and that’s off-limits for iconography reason.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I don’t know if I’ve talked about this before and if I have it’s been a long time, but having two Saga films take place back to back just kinda irks on an irrational level. Thus, I’d like to edit the films so as to insert a 1 year gap. Rey and Chewie spend the year scouring Ach-To for Luke’s location, and since in my version there never was a big laser pointed at D’Qar, it’s reasonable to think the First Order would take a year to find it. This change wouldn’t accomplish much, but it would feel more in keeping with the Saga’s style. Then again, so would changing the title and that’s off-limits for iconography reason.

I think an easier way to do this would be to adjust the ending of TFA. The cliffhanger with Luke is what necessitates the back-to-back nature of them. I know we’ve talked about how I overcame this before, but if you take everything out of TFA from after the Falcon jumps to Hyperspace from D’Qar, you can re-use that footage in TLJ when part of it is reenacted anyway. I used Kylo travelling to Exegol as a new cliffhanger, but you could just end it with the jump. Then it becomes ambiguous how much time transpires between the films, as TLJ still doesn’t open with Rey on Ahch-To.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Sorry I wasn’t clear. I envisioned TFA ending on this shot. No Ach-To in TFA.

Oh, gotcha. I ended that sequence with the next shot, of the Falcon launching into hyperspace. But I bet the circle transition would work well on that push in shot on Leia.

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I feel the other shot better rhymes with TPM and ANH and just feels more Star Warsy…or at least it would be those things if it weren’t moving! I really want to end on a static version of that shot because it just looks wrong when the iris to credits happens on a pan, but I don’t see any way to remedy it here.

Your version just cuts from space to space so it looks really weird.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I feel the other shot better rhymes with TPM and ANH and just feels more Star Warsy…or at least it would be those things if it weren’t moving! I really want to end on a static version of that shot because it just looks wrong when the iris to credits happens on a pan, but I don’t see any way to remedy it here.

Your version just cuts from space to space so it looks really weird.

The only other think I can think of for you would be to extend that group shot somehow… I doubt a static version exists at all.

The more difficult option would be to move the evacuation of D’Qar into TFA, or at least a truncated version. Maybe cut from the Falcon leaving to a Star Destroyer arriving above the planet? Then down to Connix or something. Or maybe you could create a pan back from the jump over to the transports loading, the post-crawl opening shot of TLJ. It would take more work and the film would end on more of a downer… but it might salvage the last of time between films. Then open The Last Jedi with the discovery of Hyperspace tracking, since that’s already the inciting incident.

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Like I said, I won’t be including the evacuation of D’Qar in TFA. It’s staying in TLJ.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I feel the other shot better rhymes with TPM and ANH and just feels more Star Warsy…or at least it would be those things if it weren’t moving! I really want to end on a static version of that shot because it just looks wrong when the iris to credits happens on a pan, but I don’t see any way to remedy it here.

Your version just cuts from space to space so it looks really weird.

I had used the same starfield so that the cut would be invisible, but I can accept that it would seem weird since that ‘invisible cut’ has never happened in Star Wars before.

However, ESB used a cut from space (with ships) to space and in my eyes that looks a lot weirder since there’s still an iris out between starfields.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Anakin Starkiller said:

Like I said, I won’t be including the evacuation of D’Qar in TFA. It’s staying in TLJ.

I get that, I was just trying to make a suggestion that could give you an ending shot you wanted… since you seem to want a shot that doesn’t exist.

D’Qar evacuation in TFA, opening on Ahch-To in TLJ, and then cutting back to the fleet in a state of constant fleeing could also better sell the idea that the fleet has no fuel. Just a thought.

Otherwise, just end it on that group shot. If that shot is too short for you, slow it down. If that looks too unnatural, don’t. If you still don’t like the very specific thing you want and don’t want any suggestions to achieve the story goal that you have… don’t know how to help you.

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My one regret with cutting Ach-To from TFA is that I won’t be able to comedically iris to credits right after the lightsaber toss.

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Anakin Starkiller said:

I don’t know if I’ve talked about this before and if I have it’s been a long time, but having two Saga films take place back to back just kinda irks on an irrational level.

No, that bothers me, and I think others too. Even a few casual fans I know in the post-discussion coffee talk said “I’m confused, why’d they rush it? Harry Potter did it right.” Referencing how every HP movie took place in a different school year to give its narrative time to catch its breath (DH wasn’t 2 movies).

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At work a few weeks ago I had an idea for a recontextualizing of TFA’s backstory that might be doable in a fanedit?

While the Empire was still around, there were two factions in the Rebellion:

Mon Mothma’s faction was made up mainly of Old Republic bureaucrats and Senators who didn’t end up in the in-group when the Empire took over, who wanted a return to the old regime and a full restoration to the Old Republic as if the Empire never happened.

Leia’s faction was made up mainly of Outer Rim people who really felt the brunt of the Empire, and want an entirely new, third system, their biggest argument being that the Empire didn’t come out of nowhere, it exploited the flaws and weaknesses of the Old Republic. In their view, the Republican governmental system inevitably leads to the Empire.

After the Battle of Jakku, where the last of the Imperial Remnant was finally defeated and the New Republic took complete control over the galaxy (which I’d push later into the timeline, well after the Mandalorian*), the tensions between these two factions in grow in the New Republic, now that the common enemy is gone for good.

Mon Mothma dies eventually, and a fresh young Senator (Hux) takes over her faction. Hux looks like he could be her son, but I don’t think that could be pulled off in a fanedit. Maybe I’m wrong, though.

Civil war eventually breaks out, Leia’s faction becoming the Resistance, and Hux’s faction becoming the First Order. The First Order’s Imperial appearance would not be addressed at all, letting the audience fill in the blanks on the implication that the Old Republic aligned faction, and the Old Republic itself, was always inherently fascistic.

The Rebels v Empire aesthetic of the ST would be justified with the theme that the Old Republic was the true problem all along, and

Before the war, though, Hux begins to fall for the spell of a Rasputin-like figure, aka Snoke. Not entirely certain in all that, but this backstory seems to imply that Hux would be the head honcho, leaving no room for Snoke or Kylo. Rasputin Snoke is the best way to fit him (and his adherent Kylo, who Hux views as having no purpose in the First Order) into this backstory.

Snoke could also be involved somehow else, or Hux could be involved somehow else, although Senator Hux is much more believable to me than Senator Snoke.

I’d also like to somehow cut out Starkiller Base, although that’s moreso because I don’t like a Death Star III. If that didn’t work (or if I never end up doing this and someone else wants to take a crack at it, but does like Starkiller Base), this isn’t really central to the idea. I can see how Starkiller Base could be worked into the backstory.

The Last Jedi would be changed minimally, only to fit in with the new backstory. I’d personally like to cut out TRoS entirely, or at least reduce it significantly, but that has nothing to do with the backstory.

*In the New EU, the Battle of Jakku takes place a year after RotJ (5 ABY) but the Imperial Remnant is still kicking around in the Mandalorian (9 ABY). It’s not completely insignificant politically in-universe, but from a storytelling standpoint, it’s robbed of significance.

I’d push it to maybe 15 ABY (or maybe not since that’s the year Rey’s born, and I have no way to make that relevant) and have it be when the New Republic finally sweeps away the last remnant.

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SparkySywer said:

At work a few weeks ago I had an idea for a recontextualizing of TFA’s backstory that might be doable in a fanedit?

Not sure if you’re into the expanded universe but the official canon portrays a very similar scenario. The New Republic was split in two parties: there were those who appreciated the old regime and wanted a centralised government and more powerful military, and there was the faction led by Leia that favored liberty and autonomy of individual planets. Some of Leia’s political allies backed the Resistance, while many opposing Senators eventually defected to the First Order.

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SparkySywer said:

At work a few weeks ago I had an idea for a recontextualizing of TFA’s backstory that might be doable in a fanedit?

Sounds like a pretty good idea. You’d have to heavily edit the dialogue, but it’s doable.

Knight of Kalee said:

Not sure if you’re into the expanded universe but the official canon portrays a very similar scenario. The New Republic was split in two parties: there were those who appreciated the old regime and wanted a centralised government and more powerful military, and there was the faction led by Leia that favored liberty and autonomy of individual planets. Some of Leia’s political allies backed the Resistance, while many opposing Senators eventually defected to the First Order.

Honestly man, I wouldn’t really think hard about canon in the fanedit community. JJ, Rian, KK…they all sort of did their own thing and broke canon whenever it served their story. Most of the EU stuff from TFA to ROS contradicted itself after each new movie came out, worse than with Lucas and the fan community’s “S tier / A tier” canon stuff back in the day. It’s pretty clear that even after Disney wiped the EU clean to get a clean non-muddled united continuity…they actually didn’t care and it’s gonna become the same mess of licensed fanfiction.

In 2020, no one at Lucasarts cares about canon except Dave Filoni and crew.

So what I’m really saying is that faneditors should be free to do whatever they please, we should encourage total artistic freedom in this medium.

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Knight of Kalee said:

SparkySywer said:

At work a few weeks ago I had an idea for a recontextualizing of TFA’s backstory that might be doable in a fanedit?

Not sure if you’re into the expanded universe but the official canon portrays a very similar scenario. The New Republic was split in two parties: there were those who appreciated the old regime and wanted a centralised government and more powerful military, and there was the faction led by Leia that favored liberty and autonomy of individual planets. Some of Leia’s political allies backed the Resistance, while many opposing Senators eventually defected to the First Order.

Although I try to ignore EU materials, I am aware of it, and it was something I had in mind. But it’s different in that the First Order is explicitly from the not-Leia faction, instead of the not-Leia faction just sort of being sympathetic to the First Order. Well, sorta. I haven’t read much of the New EU, but it seems pretty self-contradictory on the origins of the First Order.

I always got the implication from the sequel trilogy, Mandalorian, and the stuff I have read that it was a minor terrorist organization that broke out and got big in the events of the ST, which the Centrists (god awful name wtf Lucasfilm) were weakly opposed to at best, but more realistically secretly in favor of. But according to Wikipedia the First Order are Centrists who seceded from the New Republic? I don’t know. They seem more like a military junta than an actually sophisticated political order, like what a bunch of ex-Senators might establish.

Plus, the connection between Mon Mothma’s faction and restoring the Old Republic isn’t something that’s there with the Centrists in the New EU, especially considering the full name of the Rebel Alliance is the “Alliance to Restore the Republic” and everyone is just down with that.

Which is also a big plus in doing this for me is in doing away with that. The Republic is depicted as incredibly corrupt system and it’s no shock the Empire rose out of it. You shouldn’t be shocked that the Empire comes back after trying to restore it. Even if you ignore the prequels, something had to have gone very, very wrong for the Empire to come about, even if you imagine some outlandish backstory completely foreign to the one George Lucas’s prequel trilogy gave us.

Weimar Germany didn’t fall to the Nazis out of nowhere, the Roman Republic didn’t fall to the Roman Principate out of nowhere, Napoleon didn’t come out of nowhere, and should the United States become a fascist dictatorship (not quite there yet), it’s not going to come out of nowhere. And it’s not as simple as the people handing over power to a huckster, all these things were the culminations of many centuries of deep-seeded problems. Hitler, Caesar, Napoleon, etc, just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

It’s something I wished Episode 9 would address, instead of failing to learn their lesson a second time, setting up a Third Republic to inevitably fall to fascism a third time. But the cynic in me thinks that a movie saying that liberal democracy is predisposed to fascism might raise a few eyebrows at Disney and with the higher-ups in Lucasfilm, especially in the current political climate. Despite what alt-right weirdos on Youtube say, Disney and Lucasfilm, and Hollywood at large, are very averse to putting anything too political in movies these days, especially something that might hit that close to home.

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I quite like the idea of the First Order being either the military of the New Republic or a splinter group of it. Them using very Imperial style weapons, ships, and uniforms is sensible considering that the the New Republic would likely have just taken control of all remaining Imperial assets. Plus it ties the New Republic back to the CW era Republic where the white armoured minions and Star Destroyers originated. It’s like poetry, it rhymes.

It would also help sell the idea that the Rebellion/Resistance is the only faction that isn’t a cesspool of corruption and decay (unlike the Republic, Confederacy, Empire, New Republic/First Order, or Hutts). It was always (or at least after the PT came out) daft that the Rebellion wanted to restore the Republic, an organisation that was just as feted as the Confederacy, rather than building something new.

It would have fit nicely with the ‘Let the Past Die’ thing and Luke’s potential moving of Ray away from the Jedi Order into something new, as both the Jedi Order and the Sith are another set of factions that need to be left in the past as their flaws are beyond repair.

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Yeah obviously it would be much better if the First Order having its roots in the Republic was stated in the opening crawl for TFA or something.

Independently of expanded canon, I always got the idea the First Order had a mixed origin: partly from an Imperial remnant (explaining its military junta style, brainwashing of child soldiers, Snoke, etc.) and partly from a secessionist New Republic party (giving the First Order legitimacy and providing most of their resources to rebuild their fleet). I really hope the Mandalorian provides us with more hints to the origins of the First Order. Apparently not everyone was pleased with the restoration of the Republic and it would be interesting how this point of view would have helped the rise of the First Order.

And yeah it would have been great if at least some hint to the political future of the galaxy was given in the epilogue of ROS. Ideally, they would have left some kind of message, going from “kill the past” to “learn from the past” both for the Jedi Order (have Rey acknowledge the old Jedi were flawed, and setting off to build a new one) and the eventual successor of the Republic.

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At work a few weeks ago I had an idea for a recontextualizing of TFA’s backstory that might be doable in a fanedit?

Like I said on Discord, this is basically what I had in mind but more fleshed out and with Hux as a senator instead of Snoke. I still think it should be Snoke.

Before the war, though, Hux begins to fall for the spell of a Rasputin-like figure, aka Snoke.

Actually, this is pretty interesting. Unfortunately it doesn’t quite work with how their relationship is presented in the film.

Snoke could also be involved somehow else, or Hux could be involved somehow else, although Senator Hux is much more believable to me than Senator Snoke.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree, but they’re both fairly plausible.

In 2020, no one at Lucasarts cares about canon except Dave Filoni and crew.

Tell that to Hidalgo and whoever else writes the guidebooks.

the Centrists (god awful name wtf Lucasfilm)

What about Centralists? Is that better?

Okay, now let’s try rewriting the crawl to accommodate for the new backstory, since that’s likely where most of it is going to fit.

Luke Skywalker has vanished.
In his absence, the REPUBLIC
has become divided between
the militaristic FIRST ORDER
and the liberal RESISTANCE.
War has erupted, with each
side fighting for control of
the Senate.

Resistance leader Leia Organa
is desperate to find Luke in
hopes of ending this conflict.
The First Order seeks him as
well for fear he may destroy
them.

Leia has sent her most daring
pilot on a secret mission
to Jakku, where an old ally
has discovered a clue to
Luke’s whereabouts…

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Luke Skywalker has vanished.
In his absence, a rogue faction of
the NEW REPUBLIC has emerged. Armed
with Imperial assets, the militaristic
FIRST ORDER is tightening its grip on
the galaxy in the name of security.

General Leia Organa, determined to prevent
the mistakes of the past, has established
a covert RESISTANCE to protect the galaxy
from this growing threat.

Desperate for her brother’s help,
Leia has sent her most daring
pilot on a secret mission to Jakku,
where a clue has been discovered
to Luke’s whereabouts.…

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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General reminder that Mandolorian season 2 is coming out in one month and will have a whole new host of continuity changes.

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Filoni doesn’t care about the books and other spinoff materials. He still goes by the old canon rules: movies trump TV, which trumps games, which trumps books and comics…

All of these people, Abrams aside, are just focused on telling a good story. They don’t care about the continuity outside of what they’re making. That’s why Ahsoka had blue lightsabers in The Siege of Mandalore, it was about visualising her relationship with Anakin and leaving that behind even though Books has already made her sabers green at that point.

Pablo is the one that works to wrangle everything to make sense together… but sometimes it just doesn’t matter.