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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 238

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You’re very determined in trying to get what you want, Broom Kid, but I think you’re the only one with these complaints. I don’t have a problem with the Burning Homestead cue being tracked again, if only because it’s one of the most awesome cues in the entire saga. No music playing in the scene at all, like you suggest, would just be weird and jarring for such a climactic moment.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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StarkillerAG said:

I think you’re the only one with these complaints.

…Again, I JUST SAID THIS SAME THING in an earlier post!

I’m not even trying to get what I want, I’m just explaining (to people who are directly asking me) why I feel the way I do. I already know I’m not going to get what I want. It’s not the first time I’ve been a minority opinion on a forum before, haha. 😃 I don’t know how many other ways to say that even when I don’t get what I want, I’m still going to enjoy what I do get, and I’m thankful and appreciative of the work (98% of which I think is spot on) that makes it available.

( But just because I give voice to the minority opinion doesn’t mean I won’t be proven right later, either 😉 )

No music playing in the scene at all, like you suggest, would just be weird and jarring for such a climactic moment.

OK, I don’t think I’d agree, but I do know that “weird and jarring” is exactly how I felt upon hearing that insertion of “Burning Homestead” for the third time into that scene. But I get it! Diff’rent strokes to rule the world (Hmmmmmmm).

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dgraham414 said:

My only issue with the music right after “I am all the Jedi” is that once that music bit Ends it just repeats slightly slower. It is such recognizable music that it’s impossible to miss

okay, I know this is the most unimportant thing in the world, but no one yet has noticed that the music is straight-up lifted from luke’s death in TLJ.

(edit: sorry I was playing catch up, didn’t realise someone else said exactly the same thing lol)

booyah baybeee

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Broom Kid said:

Usually, if Williams wrote music for a scene, it’s probably best to stick with what he wrote for that scene, or use nothing at all.

Thing is Williams wrote for a scene of Rey standing menacingly.

Now we have the triumphant return of Obi-Wan & Anakin. And having Luke & Obi-Wan in the scene burning homestead even works as a callback to Luke’s own embrace of the Force as well bringing both journeys full circle.

Palpatine gets incinerated like Uncle Owen & Aunt Beru and the Sith Eternal are like the Jawas dying collaterally.

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I watched Hal’s TROS edit over the weekend and I really enjoyed it. I sent him my thoughts (and compliments), but I thought I’d share them here as well. Maybe they could help in the discussion.

Very nice addition of the establishing shot on Mustafar. It makes for an smoother transition and the scene breathes a bit more.

Very cool to see that vat with Palpatine clones. It gives a much stronger explanation than some half-assed line.
Maybe the line “I’ve died before” could by laid over the shot of the cloning vats? It would be a strong way to communicate to the audience how Palpatine survived. It would mean rearranging the dialogue a bit, but I feel it’s very repetitive anyway.

Removing the ‘ticking clock’ element of the plot helps the movie a lot!

Moving the scene of Poe and Finn meeting Boolio to after Rey’s training sequence didn’t really work for me. The energy of these scenes is very different. I think keeping all the scenes on Ajan Kloss back to back will allow the movie to stop jumping around and slow down a bit.

The line “They sold you to protect you” has always bothered me, as it doesn’t paint Rey’s parents in the best light. Perhaps that could be modified to “They gave you up to protect you” or something?

Personally, I’m not a fan of the Dyad thing. It feels like an obvious way of communicating that Rey and Ren are two sides of the same coin, which the movie already clearly states. The concept isn’t really further explored anyway and mostly leads to an exposition dump in the finale. If the goal is to make the movie more streamlined, then maybe that is something to drop.

Really cool (re)introduction of Endor! Maybe the establishing shot with the Ewoks could be recolored a bit so it matches a bit more with the more muted/grey shots of the following scene?

I liked the removal of the “Only this blade will tell” scene on (now) Endor, however, the scenes of Rey retrieving the dagger on Ren’s ship are sort of useless now.

Since the destruction of Kijimi was cut, does the line “Hit those underbelly canons, every one we knock out is a world saved” still make sense?

Really awesome to see all the Jedi appear when Rey fights Palpatine! Impressive effects work!

I really enjoyed seeing more planets during the ending montage.

Nice and creative way of re-using the Dejarik scene for the ending. It implies that these characters will go on more adventures together.

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SilverKey said:

Moving the scene of Poe and Finn meeting Boolio to after Rey’s training sequence didn’t really work for me. The energy of these scenes is very different. I think keeping all the scenes on Ajan Kloss back to back will allow the movie to stop jumping around and slow down a bit.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the point in this change was that the opening scene ends with Palpatine talking about Rey, so it makes sense to jump to Rey next. Then the Ajan Kloss training sequence ends with Leia and Rey being informed that the Falcon hasn’t reported in yet, so the next cut is to the Falcon.

Personally, I think it actually helps to slow down the pacing with this edit instead of leaving it the way it was before.

I liked the removal of the “Only this blade will tell” scene on (now) Endor, however, the scenes of Rey retrieving the dagger on Ren’s ship are sort of useless now.

The blade is sort of whispering to Rey throughout this sequence, implying that she can hear the voices of the Sith through the blade and that it’s directing her where to go.

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I think if the first 2 notes were cut from Burning Homestead it would make the music flow clearer. Cut out the buh buhhhhhhh, before the force theme kicks in and it should have a much more natural sounding transition with the existing music.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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majoras_wrath said:

SilverKey said:

Moving the scene of Poe and Finn meeting Boolio to after Rey’s training sequence didn’t really work for me. The energy of these scenes is very different. I think keeping all the scenes on Ajan Kloss back to back will allow the movie to stop jumping around and slow down a bit.

Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the point in this change was that the opening scene ends with Palpatine talking about Rey, so it makes sense to jump to Rey next. Then the Ajan Kloss training sequence ends with Leia and Rey being informed that the Falcon hasn’t reported in yet, so the next cut is to the Falcon.

Personally, I think it actually helps to slow down the pacing with this edit instead of leaving it the way it was before.

I see. Structurally that makes a lot of sense. For me it threw the pacing off a little bit.

I liked the removal of the “Only this blade will tell” scene on (now) Endor, however, the scenes of Rey retrieving the dagger on Ren’s ship are sort of useless now.

The blade is sort of whispering to Rey throughout this sequence, implying that she can hear the voices of the Sith through the blade and that it’s directing her where to go.

Ah. I didn’t really get that from the edit, but that makes a bit more sense, then.

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The open scene restructuring feels better to me this way, after being convinced (!), in part because we don’t cut from the first sequence to a Falcon action sequence right away and get to our protagonist earlier, pairing the dyad.

The whispers for the Sith blade are more subtle than would be ideal, but it seems like something that one would notice on a second viewing, if not a first.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hal 9000 said:

  • Removed Rey using the dagger as an impossible compass while surveying the wreckage of the second Death Star. Sith whispers have been added strategically to imply the dagger mystically guiding her to the Wayfinder✅

Okay so I’ve been pouring over this specific transition for a bit and it is so jumpy. Unlike TFA:R or TLJ:L there seem to be moments in this edit where cuts are made but the transition needed because of the deleted scene is jarring, even for first-time viewings. Another example of this is Finn showing up randomly during Rey and Poe’s argument when the Falcon Lands. It’s almost like people have gained the ability to teleport distances of about a foot or two, the in-scene continuity is lacking.

For this scene, if the horses are shown before Poe turns around and points his blaster it might justify his apparent teleportation better.
So the scene with the blade and whispers ->
then that quick shot of the horses coming over the hill (it is a close-up, which is awkward, but it would still work) ->
Then Poe turning and pointing his blaster, then the scene could continue from there.

As for the lightspeed skip conversation, I know we discussed this before, but making that cut removes the concept of lightspeed skipping yet makes that scene suffer by teleporting Finn which just seems like an edit for edits sake. As is it is just too obvious that a scene was cut introducing Finn into the conversation.

EDIT: Looking at the Falcon landing scene again Poe teleports a couple of feet in front of Rey also when Finn shows up (since we have that shot of BB8 watching them argue.)

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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dgraham414 said:

Hal 9000 said:

  • Removed Rey using the dagger as an impossible compass while surveying the wreckage of the second Death Star. Sith whispers have been added strategically to imply the dagger mystically guiding her to the Wayfinder✅

Okay so I’ve been pouring over this specific transition for a bit and it is so jumpy. Unlike TFA:R or TLJ:L there seem to be moments in this edit where cuts are made but the transition needed because of the deleted scene is jarring, even for first-time viewings. Another example of this is Finn showing up randomly during Rey and Poe’s argument when the Falcon Lands. It’s almost like people have gained the ability to teleport distances of about a foot or two, the in-scene continuity is lacking.

For this scene, if the horses are shown before Poe turns around and points his blaster it might justify his apparent teleportation better.
So the scene with the blade and whispers ->
then that quick shot of the horses coming over the hill (it is a close-up, which is awkward, but it would still work) ->
Then Poe turning and pointing his blaster, then the scene could continue from there.

As for the lightspeed skip conversation, I know we discussed this before, but making that cut removes the concept of lightspeed skipping yet makes that scene suffer by teleporting Finn which just seems like an edit for edits sake. As is it is just too obvious that a scene was cut introducing Finn into the conversation.

EDIT: Looking at the Falcon landing scene again Poe teleports a couple of feet in front of Rey also when Finn shows up (since we have that shot of BB8 watching them argue.)

To me, these are the only issues I’ve had with the current work print

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I think as Poe and Rey are talking we see several shots of either closeups or tight medium shots. So there’s plenty of time for Finn to walk up. I think it’s better this way than lightspeed skipping dialogue that doesn’t make sense if the TIEs don’t follow them into hyperspace. The only other way is to leave the scene untouched and to assume the term refers to jumping to lightspeed either through the ice or without calculations.

The horses arriving is a little abrupt but has to be that way to remove the compass. I tried to have “Head’s up” during the shot of Rey looking toward the DS but we decided it was more important to have a Sith whisper in that moment.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hal 9000 said:

I think as Poe and Rey are talking we see several shots of either closeups or tight medium shots. So there’s plenty of time for Finn to walk up. I think it’s better this way than lightspeed skipping dialogue that doesn’t make sense if the TIEs don’t follow them into hyperspace. The only other way is to leave the scene untouched and to assume the term refers to jumping to lightspeed either through the ice or without calculations.

The horses arriving is a little abrupt but has to be that way to remove the compass.

I don’t think assuming lightspeed skipping, as referring to jumping through an ice wall without calculation, is a difficult logical jump to make. It would fit in with the rest of the technological babble that is commonplace in science fiction (including Star Wars.) We wouldn’t need an explanation of lightspeed skipping since we saw them do something that we hadn’t seen before, specifically lightspeed ramming through a wall and surviving. This alone would be considered lightspeed skipping in the context of this edit.

My issue with Finn walking up is that we can clearly see in the shot before he arrives that he is not there. It is not as if the shot where he is there he is just walking up, but he goes from not there to standing there as if he had been there this whole time without introducing himself. Rey would want to see him since we know from TFA and TLJ that their relationship is important to both of them. For Finn to return from a mission and Rey not acknowledge him at all doesn’t work for me.

With the horses, I get it, it is unfortunate though. I do think rearranging just two shots could make it flow better. I’m at the mechanic right now but I’ll try to explain my thought.
We see Rey looking over the Death Star wreckage after the Sith Whispers
We then see that one 2-second shot of the horse close-up coming over the hill
We then hear Poe say his line and pull up his blaster
We then see the shot of Poe’s blaster up with Janna coming down the hill
We would have to remove the 2-second shot from this point to fit continuity,
The scene then continues with no additional cuts.

To make this easier, perhaps removing Rey looking over the wreckage with the 2-second horse shot would allow for little audio adjustment.

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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I can give it a shot, at any rate! Dunno whether it’ll be today, though.

And about lightspeed skipping. I think earlier I was concerned that it would appear sloppy for people watching the edit who have seen the theatrical film. However, I have to concern myself only with hypothetical first-time viewers. So maybe it’d be better overall to leave in the references to lightspeed skipping, though I am certainly leaving the sequence itself out.

EDIT: Turns out I did end up including Poe saying, “Head’s up,” so that’s better than I thought before I looked. I can still give the idea of moving the horse closeup a try and see how it plays.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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dgraham414 said:

Hal 9000 said:

I think as Poe and Rey are talking we see several shots of either closeups or tight medium shots. So there’s plenty of time for Finn to walk up. I think it’s better this way than lightspeed skipping dialogue that doesn’t make sense if the TIEs don’t follow them into hyperspace. The only other way is to leave the scene untouched and to assume the term refers to jumping to lightspeed either through the ice or without calculations.

The horses arriving is a little abrupt but has to be that way to remove the compass.

I don’t think assuming lightspeed skipping, as referring to jumping through an ice wall without calculation, is a difficult logical jump to make. It would fit in with the rest of the technological babble that is commonplace in science fiction (including Star Wars.) We wouldn’t need an explanation of lightspeed skipping since we saw them do something that we hadn’t seen before, specifically lightspeed ramming through a wall and surviving. This alone would be considered lightspeed skipping in the context of this edit.

My issue with Finn walking up is that we can clearly see in the shot before he arrives that he is not there. It is not as if the shot where he is there he is just walking up, but he goes from not there to standing there as if he had been there this whole time without introducing himself. Rey would want to see him since we know from TFA and TLJ that their relationship is important to both of them. For Finn to return from a mission and Rey not acknowledge him at all doesn’t work for me.

With the horses, I get it, it is unfortunate though. I do think rearranging just two shots could make it flow better. I’m at the mechanic right now but I’ll try to explain my thought.
We see Rey looking over the Death Star wreckage after the Sith Whispers
We then see that one 2-second shot of the horse close-up coming over the hill
We then hear Poe say his line and pull up his blaster
We then see the shot of Poe’s blaster up with Janna coming down the hill
We would have to remove the 2-second shot from this point to fit continuity,
The scene then continues with no additional cuts.

To make this easier, perhaps removing Rey looking over the wreckage with the 2-second horse shot would allow for little audio adjustment.

+1 for this. The term light speed skipping could be just referring to the light speed ram through the ice wall. I feel like a first time viewer could even assume that the falcon being damaged is because of the ice wall ram. Finns introduction is so abrupt too with the “we just landed”. Definetly keep the actual light speed skip sequence deleted though

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Hal 9000 said:

So maybe it’d be better overall to leave in the references to lightspeed skipping, though I am certainly leaving the sequence itself out.

I’m personally still for completely excising any reference to it. It’s better left forgotten.

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I think a simple recontextualization of the line is in the best interest of first-time viewers and us watching this edit in like 4-5 years.
But leaving out the actual event… I completely understand that.

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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The issues I have with that mock up is 1.) teleporting Finn and Rey to the next conversation with Poe and 2.) Rey’s lips are not moving right before that transition. It’s too jumpy.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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As for the dialogue about light speed skipping, IF it had to be left in, couldn’t one refer to making the jump WITHOUT the calculations? He SKIPPED the calculations.

Of course, I also understand it could be viewed as “sloppy” to leave in that dialogue for a fan edit, I am personally “ok” with leaving the dialogue since it could be implied making the jump without the calcs.

Or my ice speed skipping comment from some time ago could work. 😉

Granted, it would be ideal if it that scene can be edited smoothly with its removal.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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I’ve always felt that if you’re going to cut the skipping, you have to also cut the references to it. It’s counterproductive to get rid of the sequence with the hypothetical “first-time viewer” in mind and then set up a situation where the first-time viewer now has to infer and recontextualize a reference to a now-deleted sequence that, to them, never existed in the first place. The edits are supposed to streamline and improve things. Leaving in stray references to stuff and then hoping they’ll do the heavy lifting FOR you is precisely the kind of storytelling decision most fan-edits set out to fix.

If you’re cutting Lightspeed skipping, just cut all the references to it. It’s the simplest, cleanest, and best possible way to go about it.

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And that was the resolution last time this was vetted. I think Finn “teleporting” is a non-issue, and his lack of highlighting in the scene is the only real issue. And it’s something that, while odd, probably wouldn’t have caused us to bat an eye in the theater.

Also, I don’t think moving the horse shot works. It feels even weirder. So I think what we got last time around stands.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Just realized that since I’m planning on adding a few things back in that were cut (Rey and Finn’s chat about Poe at the start, Rey holding the dagger to see the Throne Room location, etc.) I’m going to need to match them in color correction. How would I do that on my own? I’m pretty inexperienced in video editing

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Brewzter said:

Just realized that since I’m planning on adding a few things back in that were cut (Rey and Finn’s chat about Poe at the start, Rey holding the dagger to see the Throne Room location, etc.) I’m going to need to match them in color correction. How would I do that on my own? I’m pretty inexperienced in video editing

That’s what I’ve been thinking about a lot. I don’t have the hardware or the software to try to add things back into the edit when it’s completed that didn’t bother me and I think are necessary (pretty much just the Lightspeed skipping conversation)

Honestly though I think if you showed the scene with a reference to Lightspeed skipping to anyone who hasn’t seen the movie before they wouldn’t think it was anything bother than what they saw

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.

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Hal 9000 said:

And that was the resolution last time this was vetted. I think Finn “teleporting” is a non-issue, and his lack of highlighting in the scene is the only real issue. And it’s something that, while odd, probably wouldn’t have caused us to bat an eye in the theater.

Also, I don’t think moving the horse shot works. It feels even weirder. So I think what we got last time around stands.

Yeah it probably doesn’t, it was just a thought. I appreciate you looking into it though 😃

After being beaten and battered by prequel hate, I promise not to be that to the next generation.