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The Rise of Skywalker: Ascendant (Released) — Page 21

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RogueLeader said:

Just wanted to lay out a few of the options I’ve heard floating around regarding Rey’s story in the movie, as well as share some bigger thoughts regarding Ascendent.

So, these are some of alternative reveal options I’ve heard so far:

  1. Rey Palpatine (Original)
  2. Rey Nobody, Palpatine saw her future and ordered to have her killed/taken.
  3. Not Palpatine’s biological grandchild, but created her through the dark side, like an anti-Chosen One.
  4. Rey Nobody, but she killed her parents. (Remove connection with Ochi).
  5. Rey Nobody, but Kylo killed her parents.
  6. Rey Nobody, and the main conflict deals with destiny and visions of her future.

I like option 3. Not Palpatine’s biological grandchild, but created her through the dark side.

As this mirrors the belief I have for what the “chosen ones” are initially for, created by Plagus/Palpatine for over many lifetimes to serve as a vessal for him to transfer his spirit essense when the times right. This also connects the previous movies using the same logic, Anakin, Rey & countless other “chosen ones” is how Plagus has been kept alive… “I Am ALL SITH!”

“We Are What They Grow Beyond” - Yoda

My Prefered Saga Viewing Preference:
Ep. III - Revenge of the Sith Special Edition (StankPac Edit) * Rogue One - A Star Wars Story (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. IV - A New Hope D+77 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. V - Empire Strikes Back D+80 (OohTeeDee Edit)
Ep. VI - Return of The Jedi OTD83 (OohTeeDee Edit) * Ep. VII - The Force Awakens Restructured (Hal 9000 Edit)
Ep. VIII - The Last Jedi Legendary (Hal 9000 Edit) * Ep. IX - The Rise of Skywalker Ascendant (Hal 9000 Edit)

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Disregarding new lore from TROS yet considering the material we have to work with, I like #2.

If I were consulted while the movie was still being made and had that list to choose from, I’d go with 6, or maybe 4.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Sheev: “Do you have any dark side in you? Do you want some?”

heil Palpatine!

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NFBisms said:

I would keep Rey Nobody but somehow maintain the integrity of “Sheev fucks.” But that’s just me.

Comment of the day.

Hal 9000 said:

Disregarding new lore from TROS yet considering the material we have to work with, I like #2.

If I were consulted while the movie was still being made and had that list to choose from, I’d go with 6, or maybe 4.

Option #2 is definitely the most practical option that we could go with. It would require dialogue changes, but generally the plot wouldn’t change that much. It would just change Palpatine’s motivation for wanting to kill/capture Rey.

Option #2 and #6 could share similarities, if #2 also put emphasis on Rey’s potential dark future that Palpatine foresaw. The big difference being Palpatine saw this future a long time ago rather than recently, basically when Rey was a child, and took measures to prevent/enable it.

This really depends on what dialogue we could manufacture, but I think some of my issues with #2 could be alleviated if we could create an implication that Rey wasn’t the only child Palpatine targeted. Maybe Palpatine had commanded his cultists to exterminate Force sensitive children across the galaxy in order to make it harder for Luke to restore the Jedi order. It would help explain the motivation for why Luke was trying to track down Ochi. This way, Rey’s parents could still be tied with Ochi and the Sith could, buy Rey wouldn’t necessarily be some special, predestined Uber Sith.

But, for the sake of simplicity, it would probably be better to take the path of least resistance, which I think would be basically Dom’s ideas for Option 2. Really the major change would just be the hangar conversation. Kylo wouldn’t reveal her heritage, but instead, what Palpatine foresaw for Rey, a dark future where she becomes a Sith, kills her friends and rules the galaxy with Kylo Ren. Then besides that you’re just cutting out any lines throughout that reference Rey Palpatine explicitly.

Once the blu-ray releases, I think it will help us refresh our memories on what we have to work with. Then, we can look at that scene, and others, and see what dialogue needs to be changed and what it could be replaced with.

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Sidenote: I just finished reading the screenplay for Duel of the Fates (until today I had only heard other people’s recaps) and damn, we’re definitely living in the darkest timeline. It’s by no means a masterpiece but I feel like J.J. and Terrio could have borrowed waaaaay more from it.

Sorry to get off topic; I just don’t know anyone IRL that gives a shit about this kinda stuff and I have so many emotions!

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I’m not sure which option we will end up going with, and I remain open to 1 or 2. I think it’ll depend on whether 2 can be pulled off seamlessly in my estimation. I know a big hurdle will be the Luke scene.

Makes me sad that I would type “the Luke scene” about Star Wars Episode IX.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hal 9000 said:

I’m not sure which option we will end up going with, and I remain open to 1 or 2. I think it’ll depend on whether 2 can be pulled off seamlessly in my estimation. I know a big hurdle will be the Luke scene.

Makes me sad that I would type “the Luke scene” about Star Wars Episode IX.

I actually think Luke’s mention of Rey’s heritage can be removed seamlessly if you just cut Luke’s lines “Because you’re a Palpatine?” and “Some things are stronger than blood.” That way, Rey says “I’m afraid of myself” and Luke responds “Leia knew it too.” This gives the conversation a new context, talking about Rey’s inner darkness rather than any evil heritage. This especially works if you go with option 6, where the main conflict is about Rey’s destiny.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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There’s a lot of sad things, to be brutally honest.

But we can make something decent out of this! Heck, even timing some of the garbage will make a difference.

Personally I am tempering my expectations and even having something that is trimmed a bit will be good enough.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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StarkillerAG said:

Hal 9000 said:

I’m not sure which option we will end up going with, and I remain open to 1 or 2. I think it’ll depend on whether 2 can be pulled off seamlessly in my estimation. I know a big hurdle will be the Luke scene.

Makes me sad that I would type “the Luke scene” about Star Wars Episode IX.

I actually think Luke’s mention of Rey’s heritage can be removed seamlessly if you just cut Luke’s lines “Because you’re a Palpatine?” and “Some things are stronger than blood.” That way, Rey says “I’m afraid of myself” and Luke responds “Leia knew it too.” This gives the conversation a new context, talking about Rey’s inner darkness rather than any evil heritage. This especially works if you go with option 6, where the main conflict is about Rey’s destiny.

Huh, never thought about using that line in that context. Good idea Starkiller! Hopefully that can work.

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Me neither. I like it, even if I can’t quite picture it. I just remember Luke speaking about Palpatine stuff in what felt like an embedded way.

I suppose something like this could be nice:
“What are you afraid of?”
“Myself.”
Stern look
“Leia knew it, too.”
“She never told me/still trained me/whatever the exact line is.”
“Confronting [that] fear is the destiny of a Jedi… if you don’t face Palpatine, it will be the end of the Jedi.”

My stance on revising fan edits.

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I have a “certain resource” that I’ve been using to brainstorm editing suggestions, to make sure they could work. Because of that, here’s how the scene would play out if the two lines I mentioned were removed:

Rey: “I saw myself on the dark throne. I won’t let it happen. I’m never leaving this place, I’m doing what you did.”

Luke: “I was wrong. It was fear that kept me here. What are you most afraid of?”

Rey: “Myself.”

Luke: “Leia knew it too.”

Rey: “She didn’t tell me. She still trained me.”

Luke: “Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost. There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

I personally think it could work. Rey’s “She didn’t tell me” line is kind of suspicious, but the implications probably wouldn’t register for a hypothetical first time viewer.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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Hal 9000 said:

I like it! Perhaps the line “She didn’t tell me” could be removed also. With what we can all do collectively, I’d bet so, even if we had to use visual FX.

It could definitely be possible, even without VFX. Although the line could still work, even with the new context. I’d just have to see it in motion.

Also, I‘d highly amend your post to allude to the ‘transcript’ you’re pulling that from.

Thank you, I changed it. I don’t want to support that kind of stuff. I watched the movie in theaters, I’m just using the “certain resource” to see what could or couldn’t be done when it comes to editing.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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OP updated with a fresh revision of my ideas, removing several and tweaking some. Rather than cut and paste and denote 90% of DominicCobb’s thread’s ideas, a last item refers to it.

Here’s my current idea for a crawl:

Episode IX
THE RISE OF SKYWALKER

The iron grip of the FIRST ORDER has spread to the farthest reaches of the galaxy. Kindled by the feat of Jedi Master Skywalker, the populace of countless worlds have risen in defiance.

As Rey, sole heir to the Jedi, continues her training under the ailing General Leia Organa, the fledging Resistance gathers intel to forge a path to freedom.

Meanwhile, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren searches relentlessly to unlock the secrets of his former master’s power, determined to suffocate any threat to his rule…

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Rey: “I saw myself on the dark throne. I won’t let it happen. I’m never leaving this place, I’m doing what you did.”

Luke: “I was wrong. It was fear that kept me here. What are you most afraid of?”

Rey: “Myself.”

Luke: “Leia knew it too.”

Rey: “She didn’t tell me. She still trained me.”

Luke: “Because she saw your spirit. Your heart. Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost. There’s something my sister would want you to have.”

What I love about this change is that it puts the focus on Rey’s emotions and personality rather than her bloodline. Rey is afraid of herself, afraid of her anger and afraid of hurting people.

Despite sensing that anger, Leia still trained her, because she saw that she had a good spirit, a good heart, and her emotions didn’t define her. It’s a great evolution to the old Jedi order chastising their students for their emotions. “I sense much fear in you.” “Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering!” “Anger, fear, aggression, the dark side are they!”

Instead, Luke doesn’t chastise Rey for her fear. “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi.”

I think Luke began learning that lesson in the original trilogy. He learned good lessons from Yoda and Obi-Wan, but he also grew beyond them by believing in the goodness of his father when they had completely given up on him. Luke gave into his anger, but he recomposes himself and threw his weapon down.

To me, the lesson I think Rey is learning is that her emotions are natural parts of who she is, and she shouldn’t try to purge her fear or anger, but acknowledge them. This would be like assimilating with one’s Shadow, in Jungian psychology.

If anything, I would cut, “If you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost.” To me this line is too reminiscent to this interaction with Luke and Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan: You must face Darth Vader again.

Luke: But I can’t kill my own father.

Obi-Wan: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our last hope.

Obi-Wan is basically giving Luke an ultimatum, kill your father, or let the Emperor win. Luke later proves him wrong, so I don’t think Luke would/should give Rey a similar ultimatum. Not because of the implication that he’s telling her to kill Palpatine, because obviously she has to do that, but I think that kind of sentence puts a lot of pressure on Rey and not the best thing to say at this moment. I like the conversation being focused on her and her fears, rather than the bigger picture and her responsibilities.

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Dang Rogue, good points.

“Because you are a PalpaWalker?”

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RogueLeader said:

If anything, I would cut, “If you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost.” To me this line is too reminiscent to this interaction with Luke and Obi-Wan.

Obi-Wan is basically giving Luke an ultimatum, kill your father, or let the Emperor win. Luke later proves him wrong, so I don’t think Luke would/should give Rey a similar ultimatum. Not because of the implication that he’s telling her to kill Palpatine, because obviously she has to do that, but I think that kind of sentence puts a lot of pressure on Rey and not the best thing to say at this moment. I like the conversation being focused on her and her fears, rather than the bigger picture and her responsibilities.

I disagree. It isn’t really the same scenario. Vader was Luke’s father, and he wasn’t irredeemably evil like Palpatine. If Luke told Rey to kill Kylo, then I would understand where you’re coming from. But I feel like Luke has to emphasize that Palpatine is going to destroy half the galaxy. The stakes are huge, you shouldn’t make a molehill out of a mountain.

My preferred Skywalker Saga experience:
I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX

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RogueLeader said:

To me, the lesson I think Rey is learning is that her emotions are natural parts of who she is, and she shouldn’t try to purge her fear or anger, but acknowledge them. This would be like assimilating with one’s Shadow, in Jungian psychology.

If anything, I would cut, “If you don’t face Palpatine, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost.” To me this line is too reminiscent to this interaction with Luke and Obi-Wan.

Great post RL. Would be great (depending on feasibility) if he could say “If you don’t face your fear, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost.”

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Thanks! Or simply, “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost.”

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RogueLeader said:

Thanks! Or simply, “Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t, it will mean the end of the Jedi, and the war will be lost.”

This is it!