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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 142

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DrDre said:

A film with little plot can be fun, but a good film needs a good plot.

Every experimental filmmaker disagrees with you.

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Why yes, I do quite enjoy the “lab accidents” of Panos Cosmatos, Alejandro Jodorowsky, David Lynch, Guy Maddin, Georges Méliès, & Jan Švankmajer.

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Let us not forget that Lucas’ early work was quite experimental as well. Heck, even ANH can be considered “experimental”. By the standards of its time it was a pretty weird and original movie (still is).

(Also ditto on the above comment, or at least regarding about half of them. I have no clue who the rest are.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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They should have David Lynch direct the next Star Wars. Let’s get weird.

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Cthulhunicron said:

They should have David Lynch direct the next Star Wars. Let’s get weird.

Well, he was offered to do ROTJ, but apparently SW wasn’t weird enough for him. I’m glad he didn’t though, as I don’t see Lynch following Lucas’, for lack of a better word, “orders” the same way Kershner and Marquand did. And I’m glad we got to see Lynch’s interpretation of Dune. For all it’s flaws, I do really like that movie.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:

RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It just occurred to me that one of the funnier coincidences regarding the Rey Palpatine retcon is that now it finally makes sense that a scavenger on Jakku speaks with a British accent. Granted her parents, even if they were genuine “nobodies”, could come from the core worlds, though that seems a little weird for “filthy junk traders” that sold off their own child for drinking money. It doesn’t really matter, but at least the EU writers won’t have figure it out in the future.

Unkar Plutt had a British accent.

That’s true. So much for that idea.

I wonder why they had Boyega do an American accent when they ignore accent inconsistencies in other characters.

I think they went with an American accent for John since stormtroopers typically have American accents. I heard they played around with Rey having an American accent as well, but I think Daisy was more comfortable with her natural accent.

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RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

RogueLeader said:

ZkinandBonez said:

It just occurred to me that one of the funnier coincidences regarding the Rey Palpatine retcon is that now it finally makes sense that a scavenger on Jakku speaks with a British accent. Granted her parents, even if they were genuine “nobodies”, could come from the core worlds, though that seems a little weird for “filthy junk traders” that sold off their own child for drinking money. It doesn’t really matter, but at least the EU writers won’t have figure it out in the future.

Unkar Plutt had a British accent.

That’s true. So much for that idea.

I wonder why they had Boyega do an American accent when they ignore accent inconsistencies in other characters.

I think they went with an American accent for John since stormtroopers typically have American accents. I heard they played around with Rey having an American accent as well, but I think Daisy was more comfortable with her natural accent.

Right, but according to that logic they should have had Simon Pegg do an american accent too, which I’m sure he’s capable of doing. Then again it’s been a while since I saw TFA so maybe his accent isn’t quite as “posh” as the Imperials and other core worlds characters usually are.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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Is Palpatine’s face creepy, like in ROTJ, or fake looking, as in ROTS?

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

Is Palpatine’s face creepy, like in ROTJ, or fake looking, as in ROTS?

He doesn’t really look like either. The “melted” look is gone. He’s really just a pale Ian McDiarmid with white eyes. It’s hard to explain, but he has a bit of an old Lugosi vibe to him. Kinda like something from a Universal Horror movie. I’d even describe it as a ghostly look.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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The way his expressions changed every time a flash of lightning lit up his face was also a really cool and creepy effect. Overall, I think Palpatine was done in a really interesting way that was both familiar and different at the same time.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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NeverarGreat said:

He looks genuinely creepy in this. Definitely up there with ROTJ but in a more undead way.

Well, that’s one positive at least. How about Ian’s performance? In ROTJ it was a nice balance of real creepiness with schlock villain. Again, in ROTS in was too over the top into schlock.

“It is only through interaction, through decision and choice, through confrontation, physical or mental, that the Force can grow within you.”
-Kreia, Jedi Master and Sith Lord

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theprequelsrule said:

NeverarGreat said:

He looks genuinely creepy in this. Definitely up there with ROTJ but in a more undead way.

Well, that’s one positive at least. How about Ian’s performance? In ROTJ it was a nice balance of real creepiness with schlock villain. Again, in ROTS in was too over the top into schlock.

More on the serious side, but without being dull. He has a few evil cackling moments, but overall he’s quite grim and dramatic. Again, he’s kinda ghostly and creepy, don’t know how else to describe it.

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ZkinandBonez said:

theprequelsrule said:

NeverarGreat said:

He looks genuinely creepy in this. Definitely up there with ROTJ but in a more undead way.

Well, that’s one positive at least. How about Ian’s performance? In ROTJ it was a nice balance of real creepiness with schlock villain. Again, in ROTS in was too over the top into schlock.

More on the serious side, but without being dull. He has a few evil cackling moments, but overall he’s quite grim and dramatic. Again, he’s kinda ghostly and creepy, don’t know how else to describe it.

An embodiment of Das Nichtige?

Perhaps that’s too Barthian, though.

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He gets his ROTJ look at the end for a brief time, though, after siphoning Rey and Ben’s energy. It looks way, way better than ROTS for sure, but it has a similar issue with the neck being too fat, but that’s just down to McDiarmid’s aging/weight compared to his 1982 self.

It’s also much more shrouded in shadow, even more so than ROTJ, which helps.

To add to others’ descriptions of how he looks before that - basically like McDiarmid today (no real prosthetics applied), but with all-white “dead” eyes, white skin, and blue/black lips, as if there’s no bloodflow/oxygen. If he has hair, it’s hidden under the hood. He’s got tubes hooked up to him, somewhat hidden by his hood, that supply a white liquid, and he’s connected to a mechanical “arm” that moves him around. His hands are gnarled with parts of a couple fingers missing.

And the lightning/strobe effects really add to the creepiness, though it might be a bit much for photosensitive people (the theater I went to for my second viewing had photosensitivity/epilepsy warnings posted outside the theater door and one popped up onscreen after the trailers, right before the movie started).

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NeverarGreat said:

He looks genuinely creepy in this. Definitely up there with ROTJ but in a more undead way.

The makeup seems to suggest his body is essentially a corpse, which is pretty cool.

He gets rejuvenated and ends up with the melted look again. It’s brief, but it’s much loser to ROTJ than ROTS.

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Yeah, it seems like the movie is implying that Sith cultists pulled Palpatine’s broken body from the wreckage of the Death Star, and whatever is left of Palpatine’s spirit is latched onto it. Palpatine is basically a lich, which makes sense if all the Banite Sith are actually just one Sith that possesses apprentice after apprentice.

This is more speculative, but maybe when Vader killed him, Palpatine tried to possess Vader, but failed. Instead, his spirit latched onto Vader’s armor/helmet. In the interim between ROTJ and TFA, Sith cultists retrieved Palpatine’s mangled corpse and the mask of Vader. Through a mix of mechanics, cloning tech and Sith alchemy, they were able to sustain his body enough for Palpatine’s spirit to reanimate it.

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Overall, I was very disappointed with TROS, but I did enjoy McDiarmid’s performance, and the makeup was great. Unfortunately he’s way overpowered this time.

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I know this is completely off-canon but Palpatine in TROS was, to me, more like an extension of the original TESB Emperor with the monkey-eyes. This version didn’t feel like the Naboo Senator gone bad or even the hammy ROTJ guy to me. The idea of the Sith as this secret cult of gothic sorcerers really worked for me too, even if it doesn’t necessarily line up with what has gone before.

I swear, no SW film has messed with my head-canon more than this one! But god I love it…

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RogueLeader said:

Yeah, it seems like the movie is implying that Sith cultists pulled Palpatine’s broken body from the wreckage of the Death Star, and whatever is left of Palpatine’s spirit is latched onto it. Palpatine is basically a lich, which makes sense if all the Banite Sith are actually just one Sith that possesses apprentice after apprentice.

This is more speculative, but maybe when Vader killed him, Palpatine tried to possess Vader, but failed. Instead, his spirit latched onto Vader’s armor/helmet. In the interim between ROTJ and TFA, Sith cultists retrieved Palpatine’s mangled corpse and the mask of Vader. Through a mix of mechanics, cloning tech and Sith alchemy, they were able to sustain his body enough for Palpatine’s spirit to reanimate it.

That would actually be a pretty cool and interesting way to bring him back (but still creates issues by having him come back), shame it’s not explained in the movie.

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It’s probably for the best that Lynch didn’t do ROTJ. I can’t imagine Lucas would’ve give him any more creative freedom than he gave Marquand. Lynch’s ROTJ would’ve likely been as tepid a film as the ROTJ we got, only with some minor casting/aesthetic differences.

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Shopping Maul said:

I know this is completely off-canon but Palpatine in TROS was, to me, more like an extension of the original TESB Emperor with the monkey-eyes. This version didn’t feel like the Naboo Senator gone bad or even the hammy ROTJ guy to me. The idea of the Sith as this secret cult of gothic sorcerers really worked for me too, even if it doesn’t necessarily line up with what has gone before.

I swear, no SW film has messed with my head-canon more than this one! But god I love it…

Yeah, it is pretty interesting and I honestly like the idea! Though it does raises questions, because now the opera scene has a whole new layer of meaning. In the scene, Palpatine seems a little smug about telling the story of how he killed his master (without Anakin realizing), but if all the Banite Sith are one, how does context change for this line, “Ironic, he could save others from death, but not himself.”

You could argue Palpatine is just manipulating Anakin at this point, but that line in particular seems to mean something to Palpatine. Like there is a glimmer in his eye.

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Shopping Maul said:

I know this is completely off-canon but Palpatine in TROS was, to me, more like an extension of the original TESB Emperor with the monkey-eyes. This version didn’t feel like the Naboo Senator gone bad or even the hammy ROTJ guy to me. The idea of the Sith as this secret cult of gothic sorcerers really worked for me too, even if it doesn’t necessarily line up with what has gone before.

This is pretty true. Despite his decaying image we don’t have the typical cackling character. Much more the cool, calculated schemer. More of an ethereal demon. It’s a new register for McDiarmid but it feels in character.