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Info: 1983 UK 'TVS' Star Wars premiere - anybody still have a recording? — Page 3

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I remember back in 2006 when I first read the post at the link above, my head exploded!!!

All this time later, I still have no idea what it means!!!

However, as long as other people understand it, that is all that matters.

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss…

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 (Edited)

russs15 said:

I remember back in 2006 when I first read the post at the link above, my head exploded!!!

All this time later, I still have no idea what it means!!!

However, as long as other people understand it, that is all that matters.

(The following uses PAL for any figures and examples.)

TV displays work in an interesting way. They use interlacing to display frames.*

Instead of showing one frame 25 times per second, they show one-half of a frame 50 times per second. Each one-half of a frame is called a field.

Now, each field is composed of every other line in a frame. So the even field contains lines: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, ... and the odd field contains lines: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, .... (This is the reason why separating fields results in a half-resolution image.)

There are two ways to order your fields for transmission and/or recording. You can send the even field first (a.k.a., top field first or TFF) or you can send the odd field first (a.k.a., bottom field first or BFF).

DVDs standardized on sending the even field first, so every DVD is TFF. However, TV (or just UK TV or maybe just ITV) broadcasts send the odd field first, so they're BFF.

Your DVD recorder probably assumes that its input is TFF, but your source is BFF, so your recording has the even field where the odd field should be and vice versa. This results in a combing pattern that appears to be very similar to the interlacing we all know and love.

Please let me know if you'd like me to explain further!

* The reason for using interlacing is to reduce the bandwidth needed for over-the-air transmission. Remember bunny ears?!

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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 (Edited)

Moth3r said:

You should not need to deinterlace - I think you can just swap the field order.

Had a second look and you are right about that, wasn't paying attention. An easy fix if a re-encode should take place. Except for the audio, did you ever digitize your recording Moth3r?

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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msycamore said:

Moth3r said:

You should not need to deinterlace - I think you can just swap the field order.

Had a second look and you are right about that, wasn't paying attention. An easy fix if a re-encode should take place. Except for the audio, did you ever digitize your recording Moth3r?

How many different ITV recordings are there? I count three, but I may be wrong...

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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AntcuFaalb said:

How many different ITV recordings are there? I count three, but I may be wrong...

That's quite an impossible question to answer. ;) I believe there was yet another recording that was utilized in the Mono mix restoration project around here.

Russ' words; "For the Monomix Restoration Project, my ITV recording was rated third behind Moth3rs and a Danish broadcast. Only a small part of it was used." I don't believe the Danish is the one danny_boy has.

We want you to be aware that we have no plans—now or in the future—to restore the earlier versions. 

Sincerely, Lynne Hale publicity@lucasfilm.com

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AntcuFaalb said:

russs15 said:

I remember back in 2006 when I first read the post at the link above, my head exploded!!!

All this time later, I still have no idea what it means!!!

However, as long as other people understand it, that is all that matters.

(The following uses PAL for any figures and examples.)

TV displays work in an interesting way. They use interlacing to display frames.*

Instead of showing one frame 25 times per second, they show one-half of a frame 50 times per second. Each one-half of a frame is called a field.

Now, each field is composed of every other line in a frame. So the even field contains lines: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, ... and the odd field contains lines: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, .... (This is the reason why separating fields results in a half-resolution image.)

There are two ways to order your fields for transmission and/or recording. You can send the even field first (a.k.a., top field first or TFF) or you can send the odd field first (a.k.a., bottom field first or BFF).

DVDs standardized on sending the even field first, so every DVD is TFF. However, TV (or just UK TV or maybe just ITV) broadcasts send the odd field first, so they're BFF.

Your DVD recorder probably assumes that its input is TFF, but your source is BFF, so your recording has the even field where the odd field should be and vice versa. This results in a combing pattern that appears to be very similar to the interlacing we all know and love.

Please let me know if you'd like me to explain further!

* The reason for using interlacing is to reduce the bandwidth needed for over-the-air transmission. Remember bunny ears?!

BANG!!! (head explodes for a second time.......)

4 - 5 - 3 - 1 - 6 - 2

Discuss…

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russs15 said:

BANG!!! (head explodes for a second time.......)

Ask away! What questions do you have?

A picture is worth a thousand words. Post 102 is worth more.

I’m late to the party, but I think this is the best song. Enjoy!

—Teams Jetrell Fo 1, Jetrell Fo 2, and Jetrell Fo 3

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msycamore said:

Except for the audio, did you ever digitize your recording Moth3r?

I did capture the video once only to assist with synching the audio. I deleted the capture afterwards (it was only half-resolution and had been compressed with Xvid on-the-fly, so not high quality).

 

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AntcuFaalb said:

(The following uses PAL for any figures and examples.)

TV displays work in an interesting way. They use interlacing to display frames.*

Instead of showing one frame 25 times per second, they show one-half of a frame 50 times per second. Each one-half of a frame is called a field.

Now, each field is composed of every other line in a frame. So the even field contains lines: 0, 2, 4, 6, 8, ... and the odd field contains lines: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, .... (This is the reason why separating fields results in a half-resolution image.)

There are two ways to order your fields for transmission and/or recording. You can send the even field first (a.k.a., top field first or TFF) or you can send the odd field first (a.k.a., bottom field first or BFF).

DVDs standardized on sending the even field first, so every DVD is TFF. However, TV (or just UK TV or maybe just ITV) broadcasts send the odd field first, so they're BFF.

Your DVD recorder probably assumes that its input is TFF, but your source is BFF, so your recording has the even field where the odd field should be and vice versa. This results in a combing pattern that appears to be very similar to the interlacing we all know and love.

Please let me know if you'd like me to explain further!

* The reason for using interlacing is to reduce the bandwidth needed for over-the-air transmission. Remember bunny ears?!

This has to be one of the best posts I have read in a long time.

Can this be part of a sticky in the Tech Forum.

 

Save London’s Curzon Soho Cinema

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Williarob said:

Any updates on this project?

 

I'd be interested in any news too - would love a copy of the 1983 premiere...

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Thread resurrection!

Was taking a casual cyber-wander over at ‘That Other Place’, minding my own business, when I noticed a guy mentioning he had a recording of the ITV broadcast of Star Wars.

Was wondering if anybody here is a member of Force.net, and could perhaps ask him if this is indeed a recording of the original ITV premiere? If so I’m sure there’s folk here that would love to offer to capture it.

Before I post the image grab of his post though… how on earth do you post images here? Tried searching for an FAQ but unhelpfully there isn’t one. It’s the simple things that always task me 😉

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 (Edited)

77FN said:

Thread resurrection!

Was taking a casual cyber-wander over at ‘That Other Place’, minding my own business, when I noticed a guy mentioning he had a recording of the ITV broadcast of Star Wars.

Was wondering if anybody here is a member of Force.net, and could perhaps ask him if this is indeed a recording of the original ITV premiere? If so I’m sure there’s folk here that would love to offer to capture it.

Before I post the image grab of his post though… how on earth do you post images here? Tried searching for an FAQ but unhelpfully there isn’t one. It’s the simple things that always task me 😉

This may be of use.
In short, go exclamation point, then brackets enclosing whatever text you want to tag your image, then parentheses with the url of the image, all without spaces between the characters.

! [] ()

Hyperlinking works the same way, just without the exclamation point.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Thanks, that’s great!

OK here’s the post:

ITV SW Rec Post

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Do these ITV recordings contain the full film? The reason I ask is because throughout the 80s, ITV regularly hacked films to pieces in order to make them fit a broadcast slot. I remember that happening for their premiere of TESB in 1988.

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Ahh… That brings back happy memories. I had a recording of the ITV premiere of TESB (my sister wanted us to record Back to the Future instead on another channel while we were out, but my dad fortunately did an Indy and “chose wisely”!). It wasn’t until many years later, when watching the 2006 GOUT DVD, that I noticed the odd 30 seconds of dialogue were missing here and there from my VHS recording. From memory, there were a couple of shots involving C-3PO missing, both at times where there were adverts:

  • C-3PO reassuring R2D2 that Luke will be alright at dusk, just after Han goes looking for him on Hoth
  • Sarcastic remarks from Han made to C-3PO on board the falcon while they are hiding in the asteroid, just after Piett has briefed Vader

I wonder if anything else was chopped out?

Sadly I no longer have this VHS tape. I lent it many times to a colleague who taught Geography and used it for a particular lesson to introduce glaciers…! Rather tenuous, but time better spent than getting the kids to colour stuff in, I guess. Then he left the school, and I realised only months later that he still had my tape 😦. It also had “Mickey’s Christmas Carol” afterwards, possibly recorded later that day or the next day.

Bluto

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Bluto said:

Ahh… That brings back happy memories. I had a recording of the ITV premiere of TESB (my sister wanted us to record Back to the Future instead on another channel while we were out, but my dad fortunately did an Indy and “chose wisely”!). It wasn’t until many years later, when watching the 2006 GOUT DVD, that I noticed the odd 30 seconds of dialogue were missing here and there from my VHS recording. From memory, there were a couple of shots involving C-3PO missing, both at times where there were adverts:

  • C-3PO reassuring R2D2 that Luke will be alright at dusk, just after Han goes looking for him on Hoth
  • Sarcastic remarks from Han made to C-3PO on board the falcon while they are hiding in the asteroid, just after Piett has briefed Vader

I wonder if anything else was chopped out?

I think the scene with Threepio translating Artoo’s calculations to Leia got snipped as well. They also removed the interaction between Han and Leia after Threepio expresses his bewilderment at “human behaviour” and leaves the cockpit.

It seems ITV hadn’t yet discovered the joys of time compression/truncating credits and instead resorted to slashing away footage in order to cram in more adverts. Likewise, I didn’t realise either that there were segments missing till years later when I saw the USA Network airing.

Unfortunately the UK broadcasters have never been forced to carry these sorts of warnings that are commonplace stateside:

Modified

As much as I loathe the entire practice, at least that way, it saves you having your time wasted and you can change the channel and watch something else.

Bluto said:

Sadly I no longer have this VHS tape. I lent it many times to a colleague who taught Geography and used it for a particular lesson to introduce glaciers…! Rather tenuous, but time better spent than getting the kids to colour stuff in, I guess. Then he left the school, and I realised only months later that he still had my tape 😦. It also had “Mickey’s Christmas Carol” afterwards, possibly recorded later that day or the next day.

Bluto

My copy (recorded from Thames) has also been lost to the winds of time. However it seems a few people still have the original recordings as the commercial breaks have been uploaded to YouTube. I didn’t record the ROTJ premiere and can’t remember if ITV also applied similar butchery to that instalment.

The real holy grail would be obtaining the actual 1983 ITV broadcast master tape (as happened with the HBO airing) but that’s probably been long since destroyed…

(on a side note, what did/do you teach and which age range?)

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Only just seen this…I have copies of all three films from the itv broadcast with adverts…I’m actually after the 1990 Rotj release on itv with adverts…but I can share these three if it’s of help?

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Please do! 😃

Any chance you can show us some screenshots please?

“Logic is the battlefield of adulthood.”

  • Howard Berk
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Spookedhippie said:

Only just seen this…I have copies of all three films from the itv broadcast with adverts…I’m actually after the 1990 Rotj release on itv with adverts…but I can share these three if it’s of help?

Hi, would you be able to provide copies of these broadcasts? Thanks
Daz