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TFA: A Gentle Restructure (Released) — Page 77

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New changes are good to better match with TLJ, please leave in V2 for SKB. I would be willing to view a workprint again when you have one ready 😃

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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 (Edited)

Rey thinking Luke Skywalker was a myth could stay in, later in the movie Han confirms to her that the Jedi were real and that resolves that part of Rey’s beliefs and allows her to realize that Luke actually was a real person and not just a story. Rey believes in “The Legend of Luke” and everything she’s heard until she meets him in TLJ and has her expectations subverted, fitting with that movie’s theme.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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Hal 9000 said:

If it’s possible, I would like to find a different shot to place immediately prior to the Hosnian system being destroyed, instead of cutting to Leia. If we can avoid cutting to Leia, it can be left slightly ambiguous about whether she is reacting via the Force to the planetary destruction only or if Han’s death is part of it. This one may need to stay as is, since it was hard enough to find enough shots to include!

Maybe use the shots of Kylo on the shuttle but somehow replace him with someone else or crop the footage to cut him out.

The Skywalker Saga:
I · II · III · IV · V · VI · VII · VIII · IX
This is the way.

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 (Edited)

DZ-330 said:

New changes are good to better match with TLJ, please leave in V2 for SKB.

I remember Dom arguing that placing a Snoke scene after the Oscillator sabotage would throw off the pacing of the end of the movie. At the time I thought the benefit to the story would outweigh this negative, but having viewed Restructured V2 quite a few times this year I have come around to Dom’s way of thinking on this. It really stops the movie in its tracks to manufacture a threat which we know won’t materialize, when the focus should be on the fallout from Han’s death on our other main characters.

DZ-330 said:

Rey thinking Luke Skywalker was a myth could stay in, later in the movie Han confirms to her that the Jedi were real and that resolves that part of Rey’s beliefs and allows her to realize that Luke actually was a real person and not just a story. Rey believes in “The Legend of Luke” and everything she’s heard until she meets him in TLJ and has her expectations subverted, fitting with that movie’s theme.

Yeah, Rey does say ‘The Jedi were real!’, so that might feel weird if that other line is gone.

DZ-330 said:

Hal 9000 said:

If it’s possible, I would like to find a different shot to place immediately prior to the Hosnian system being destroyed, instead of cutting to Leia. If we can avoid cutting to Leia, it can be left slightly ambiguous about whether she is reacting via the Force to the planetary destruction only or if Han’s death is part of it. This one may need to stay as is, since it was hard enough to find enough shots to include!

Maybe use the shots of Kylo on the shuttle but somehow replace him with someone else or crop the footage to cut him out.

Not sure what you mean by this. Would this be another shot of Imperial officers watching the base fire?

One shot you could use is from TLJ, where the fleet is escaping from the Resistance base. Just paint out the ships and do a zoom into the planet before all the shots of the Resistance officers.

Another shot from that same scene in TLJ is when the Dreadnought prepares to fire on the fleet. There’s a shot of a technician with a helmet similar to the ones on the Death Star, which would be a fitting callback here.

Also Hal, really nice job on Finn and Poe’s escape!

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Excellent feedback so far. I will see about some of those shots you mentioned from TLJ when I get the chance, and continue to chew on the structure post-Hosnian destruction.
And you’ve convinced me about Rey’s “myth” line. My concern was that it implied she may not know a great deal about Luke, as if the story were just something she was vaguely aware of.

“Luyke Skywalkah’… 'Ah thought 'e was a myth, 'ah did!”

JEDIT: Does anyone have any strong feelings against cutting Rey saving Finn from the rathtars and/or removing Chewie walking past Leia?

My stance on revising fan edits.

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As a matter of fact the issue is not really Chewie walking past Leia but more Leia hugging someone she doesn’t know (and someone we know thanks to TLJ she really never met before ! They still have their scene together when Rey leaves to Jakku, so removing it wouldn’t damage the narrative flow in any way). I believe cutting the scene to go straight from the Falcon arriving to the “mourning situation room” would fix all issues regarding Chewie. But it’s such an unpopular opinion I might be the only one to wish it 😄

As far the Rathgar sequence, you should check out DigMod edit which almost nailed it by also removing the “Han using Chewie’s blaster” joke (I just remember it was a little bit too dry and that a few shots should be reinstalled).

Since you wish to deal with Finn and Poe escape, DigMod also removed a few things that make the entire escape feel more serious (or less like a comedy):

  • he removed Poe and Finn’s conversation after Finn says “Because it’s the right thing to do”
  • he Removed Finn firing on and killing Stormtroopers and the traffic control room (but you already intend to do so)

And, à la TLJ:L, I believe it would be nice to cut down a little bit of the over the top humor that is something quite embarrassing, such as (more or less exhaustive list based on DigMod edit… and I know most of it would be an unpopular removal but in case people would have changed their mind about some parts of TFA now…) :

  • Poe’s “so who talks first…” lines and the mask joke (I agree it’s sort of funny but he’s the main vilain who just butchered an old guy and killed many villagers, making fun of him right now seems very out of place)
  • Finn and Rey’s excessive teenage celebration after they make it to space (yeah it’s cute but a little bit long, DigMod cut it down and made it work better in his edit)
  • Finn’s line “you got a boy friend?”
  • Finn childishly pushing down on Rey’s head
  • Han’s no look shot and use of Chewbacca’s crossbow and subsequent “I like this” line
  • troopers walking away from Ren’s wrath after he discovers Rey is missing
  • Han’s “so it’s big” line
  • Finn’s “I’m in charge now !” (it would go like this: “Remember me ? FN2087 – Not anymore. Follow me”)
  • Finn’s lines about not being ready and his head nod “what’s that” lines when he doesn’t understand Han shows him to look behind

There also is a very nice deleted scene that could be reinstalled if the quality permits it (the Kylo visits the Falcon deleted scene).

And, the ANH forced references (Han’s 14 parsecs reference, Luke’s training sphere out of the blue, trash compactor reference with Phasma… I’m OK with the chess game 'cause it looks nice and it’s the Falcon so it works in a way).

About the restructuration itself of the plot, i’ll need to think things through with pros and cons. I really like v2 version though.

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I feel that most of the above suggestions would be too far for me, and especially for the original scope of this project. I don’t have a problem with most of those. Finn is characterized as kind of dumb in TLJ, so most of his stuff in TFA is in keeping with this. The only change of the above that I do fully agree with is the “no look” shot.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hal 9000 said:

If it’s possible, I would like to find a different shot to place immediately prior to the Hosnian system being destroyed, instead of cutting to Leia. If we can avoid cutting to Leia, it can be left slightly ambiguous about whether she is reacting via the Force to the planetary destruction only or if Han’s death is part of it. This one may need to stay as is, since it was hard enough to find enough shots to include!

THIS! I mentioned this back when you were completing V2, and I’m glad you’re still considering making this change. I understand that in the end this might be impossible, but I really think it’s worth a shot!

As far as the Rey/Finn/Rathtar scene and editing out Chewie from the Rey/Leia scene, I’d say go for it. But honestly, these changes wouldn’t make or break the edit for me. I didn’t have any (major) issues with them being there in the first place, but I guess it could be nice to have them dealt with.

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I think going back and making some additions is a good idea Hal, and I like how you’re still being restrained about your changes. I think all of your ideas sound pretty good.

I was actually with you regarding the “myth” line, but I think the arguments for keeping it are solid, so I would now agree with keeping that as is. It would be like hearing stories of Pecos Bill, Paul Bunyan or John Henry and finding out they aren’t just tall tales. And as they mention, the latter scenes with Han helps her realize all of those stories are in fact true.

I like the change you’ve made with Finn about being less willing to kill stormtroopers, I like it. I think it makes sense and will help not feel as weird if Episode IX decides to have Finn play a part in some kind of First Order/stormtrooper revolt.

With that in mind, what about later in the film when Finn impales a surprised stormtrooper with the lightsaber? It is a little brutal, so should that be cut as well? I would honestly even cut the whole “I need a weapon/You have one!” interaction because it sort of brings attention to the fact that Finn suddenly no longer has the blaster that he’s been carrying around this whole time. Just some thoughts though.

I also agree about the shot of Han shooting blind. It is a little too much. The only thing I could think of would be to have Han go “huh”, like he didn’t expect for that to work, and you could take it from earlier in the film when Rey fixes the Falcon, but it might just draw even more attention to the whole thing.

Regarding the edit that has the First Order target the Resistance after destroying Hosnian Prime, I’m kind of on Nev’s side about the whole thing. I know it was included for story reasons, and to explain that the base still had energy inside it, which caused it to go nova, but I’m wondering if these things are really necessary for what Nev refers to as “a threat which we know won’t materialize”.
If I recall, everyone was kind of going back and forth on the idea for awhile, trying and suggesting different things, until we finally just decided on something since we were getting close to the deadline of TLJ’s release. I’m not saying remove it, but I definitely think that part could be worth giving some more thought to before deciding on something.

And this might not be the right edit for this, but during the shot early in the film when Kylo says, “You’re so right”, right before killing Lor San Tekka, you can see the flicker of Kylo’s lightsaber at the bottom of the screen before you hear his lightsaber activating. It would just require a little cropping to fix it, but it’s not a big deal either I guess.

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I’d love it if we could figure out a way to fix the Chewie hug. My idea, which I’ve been meaning to try and mockup in Photoshop is to cut the hug she gives him on Takodona and recomposite it into that arrival shot at the end of the film. You can reuse the background from the Leia-Rey hug, zooming in slightly and removing the extras in the background to vary it up.

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Wonder if this might work better and/or give you more freedom to make some more personal changes if this was an “offshoot”/“proper HAL 9000” edit of TFA rather than a Restructured 3.0?

Just a thought, I’m not sure if there are any changes you want to do but are hesitant to due to sticking to the “Restructured” label that you might implement if you were divorced from the goals of Restructured. If so, I’d splinter “3.0” off into its own thing to pair with TLJ Legendary, but if there isn’t anything more you’re itching to change then sticking with 3.0 would be fine, even with some of the “extra” changes (which already started creeping in with 2.0 anyway).

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NeverarGreat said:

DZ-330 said:

New changes are good to better match with TLJ, please leave in V2 for SKB.

I remember Dom arguing that placing a Snoke scene after the Oscillator sabotage would throw off the pacing of the end of the movie. At the time I thought the benefit to the story would outweigh this negative, but having viewed Restructured V2 quite a few times this year I have come around to Dom’s way of thinking on this. It really stops the movie in its tracks to manufacture a threat which we know won’t materialize, when the focus should be on the fallout from Han’s death on our other main characters.

I think you might be remembering incorrectly, as I believe I suggested the opposite (although it’s possible I argued that a specific clip test of the idea had poor pacing). I was one of the people pushing hardest for the weapon to turn on the Resistance base during the climax. “A threat which we know won’t materialize” is a very strange and, in my opinion, misguided way to look at it. Without that threat, basically half the tension of the climax is completely erased. Seeing the Resistance fighters continue the attack to blow up the base without any pressing need to was easily the weirdest part of the V1 Restructured, and the number one thing that to me made it obvious it was a fan edit.

Granted, I have not yet watched V2, so I can’t say for sure how well the idea works in practice.

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I also vote for sticking with the V2 iteration of the finale, it works best and meshes with TLJ very well IMO.

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Huh, I see what you’re saying Dom. In that case that information is definitely necessary, but I still wonder if it would be worth revisiting to see if it could be improved at all.

Also think you make a good point Ash about just letting this be its own thing if there are more edits Hal would want to personally implement. It’s up to you, Hal!

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DominicCobb said:

NeverarGreat said:

DZ-330 said:

New changes are good to better match with TLJ, please leave in V2 for SKB.

I remember Dom arguing that placing a Snoke scene after the Oscillator sabotage would throw off the pacing of the end of the movie. At the time I thought the benefit to the story would outweigh this negative, but having viewed Restructured V2 quite a few times this year I have come around to Dom’s way of thinking on this. It really stops the movie in its tracks to manufacture a threat which we know won’t materialize, when the focus should be on the fallout from Han’s death on our other main characters.

I think you might be remembering incorrectly, as I believe I suggested the opposite (although it’s possible I argued that a specific clip test of the idea had poor pacing). I was one of the people pushing hardest for the weapon to turn on the Resistance base during the climax. “A threat which we know won’t materialize” is a very strange and, in my opinion, misguided way to look at it. Without that threat, basically half the tension of the climax is completely erased. Seeing the Resistance fighters continue the attack to blow up the base without any pressing need to was easily the weirdest part of the V1 Restructured, and the number one thing that to me made it obvious it was a fan edit.

Granted, I have not yet watched V2, so I can’t say for sure how well the idea works in practice.

I think your issue was with the Snoke scene and particularly the musical choice at that point, not with the broader idea of the base charging again.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Just to pop in real quick: I’m glad there’s an emerging consensus to keep the latter restructuring about the base(s) they way they were in V2, because I agree and know not everyone does and now I can cite the consensus. 😛

I’d prefer to just keep one edit for TFA, rather than split off. I was okay with that before, so I think a good boundary line for me is what I can get away with noncontroversially.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Oh boy… a new version in the works? I must vote for the DigMod rathtar scene once again. “It just works!” (Todd Howard) and doesn’t affect the overall structure of the movie, it just makes the scene flow more smoothly without the unnecessary “Finn’s Damsel in Distress” roleplay.

I would edit the scene into Restructured as a personal edit if I only had the patience and know-how.

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I’ll get hold of a copy of his edit and compare his approach to a simple, single cut as I have it currently. As long as it’s not too ‘creative’ to fit this project’s mentality, I’ll consider it! I don’t recall how he had it by memory.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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For what I recall, it was near perfection (so to speak). Only issue is that I would have suggested to reinsert a few shots otherwise the escape run has a continuity issue.

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I was able to take a look at it. He removes Han marveling over the power of Chewie’s bowcaster, and relies on this cut to show Rey and Finn joining back up with them.

This works rather well, I agree, but I don’t want to remove that moment, or the handful of other moments his edit does. Given this, I think a better solution for this project is a simple cut from “What do they look like?” and “They look like that!” to “I’ve got the door. Cover us!”

Thanks for the suggestion, though!

My stance on revising fan edits.

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Hmm… Regarding the Leia shot immediately prior to the Hosnian destruction:

The borrowed closeup shot of Leia that we want to replace occurs right before the shot of the red beam colliding with the first planet (or moon or whatever it is). It’s just about three seconds long. Whatever is placed there ought to carry a fair amount of emotional weight.

The proposed shot of the ‘Death Star DJ v2.0’ from TLJ would not work, because it would have to be placed right before the weapon begins firing in the first place. Even if everything could be pushed forward, it would not be of sufficient length.

I think a long shot of the D’Qar planet would be an odd choice, as the next shot would be of the system being destroyed. Seems unnecessarily confusing.

At this point I still need a viable alternative shot in order to replace the one with Leia.

My stance on revising fan edits.

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The shot of Kylo watching the beam fire, if Kylo is rotoscoped out and replaced with Cannady or someone else.

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Would moving around any of the “slow-mo” shots of the others in the same room as Leia work for that? I need to rewatch the whole sequence a few times to remember each clip … I do recall there were a variety of the others reacting to the destruction.

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