Hardcore Legend said:
I think this is what got deleted?
DominicCobb said:
I honestly don’t understand this mindset but I now it’s very prevalent. The only way I can figure is people are used to Vader being redeemed because they saw that movie when they were a kid, while with Kylo he’s the guy almost singlehandedly responsible for ruining the lives of characters they loved when they were kids. That’s really the only explanation that makes sense to me.
I don’t think that has anything to do with it. Once you know Vader is Luke’s father, you look back and see that everything Vader does in ESB and ROTJ is to be reunited with his son. It shows a level of humanity for the monster. Also, his lines about the Force show that he still holds to a belief in something.
Reunited makes it sound like he wants to hang out with look and play catch. No, he wants Luke so he can have help in overthrowing the Emperor and ruling the galaxy himself, still on the dark side.
Everything Kylo has done is for revenge. Revenge against his father, his uncle, his mentor. He has no reverence for anything (kill the past). Other than his feeling of being alone, there is nothing there but hatred, petulance and rage. It would be difficult to create movement towards redemption with only 2 hours left in this saga.
Everything he’s done has been to prove himself to the dark side, whether that be for Snoke or his own sake. Deep down, he has a real heart, with the darkness being a front that has given him nothing but pain. Turning back to the light is easy, all he has to do is realize that he’s fucked up, something he’s been on the verge of for two movies straight.
Likewise, I don’t know how you create any conflict in Rey over not killing Kylo. We leave TLJ with her, Luke and Leia agreeing Kylo is a lost cause. Her doing a 180 in 2 hours is a tough sell, especially since she already spent last film going down that path.
It’s a lot more nuanced than you make it out to be. Rey created a strong connection with Ben. Just because she closed the door on him at the end of TLJ doesn’t mean she’s 100% resolved against him. I think her feelings will remain conflicted.
As for Luke, he never says Kylo is a lost cause, just that he can’t save him. I think there’s a clear distinction there, and a reasonable one (I can’t imagine Luke in particular having that ability with him).
As for Leia, she’s believed in the good in Ben for so long, and it’s only then in that one moment of despair when the weight of all the loss she’s ever experienced hits her as she thinks it’s all over that she says she thinks her son is gone. And then Luke, of course, says “no one’s ever really gone.”
