Sounds reasonable. I always figured it was just because Rogue 1 = Rogue Leader, but I haven’t really revisited that thought since before Rogue One came out.
Perhaps they replaced One with Leader for that reason? Idk.
.
…Also because that’s how it was in STAR WARS. No “Red One”, just “Red Leader”. And “Gold Leader”.
^^ Cool. I like that.
Watched this for the second time last night. I feel about the same about it as I did leaving the theater back in February. It’s cool and fun. First act should be cut down and simplified. Darth Vader lava planet scene is funny for the wrong reasons and should have been left out. Third act is great.
Mostly my thoughts, although the first act has grown on me over time.
…Also because that’s how it was in STAR WARS. No “Red One”, just “Red Leader”. And “Gold Leader”.
Red One?! There is no Red One!
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
If he told you his name is Red One, he’s lying.
…Also because that’s how it was in STAR WARS. No “Red One”, just “Red Leader”. And “Gold Leader”.
Red One?! There is no Red One!
Well, there is now.
In order to celebrate the first anniversary of Rogue One, I’d like to focus on that “boring bland female lead without arc”.
I mean, I know she’s like that as some YouTube reviewer told me so. So this must be true. Absolutely.
Let’s run a quick summary of Jyn’s thoughts (just the movie itself, no books involved)
.
.
#####################################
Mommy, no! Bad men took Daddy!
It’s dark and cold, why Daddy isn’t coming back for me?
Some bald guy saves me.
…
OK, I’m a freedom fighter now! And I’m quite good at that! Down with the Empire!
…
Wait, I got dumped? Why? Didn’t I fight arm-in-arm with you?
Well, I’m on my own now. I need to be tough! As I’m still an outlaw, wanted by the Empire.
Oh blast, I got caught! And jailed. And on my way to a forced labor camp.
#################
I need to rethink my life… because it sucks!
All those years of fighting… and the Empire is just as strong as it ever was. So much suffering… will this fight ever end? Maybe I should lay low… maybe we should have quit? To end this spiral of retaliations?
And where was my Daddy all those years? Is he collaborating with the enemy? I’d rather not think about him, it’s painful and it makes me weak.
…
Now I got freed by those Rebels (or whatever they call themselves these days). They want me to lead them to Saw… but they say my Daddy sent them a message, what? OK, maybe I’ll agree… they promised to let me go later.
…
OK, I took them to Saw, can I go now?
Wait! Daddy!
So he didn’t forget about me?
So he is a secret saboteur? A hero, opposing the Empire? But he has to work undercover and suffer all this time living like a prisoner?
Oh no, this world is undone!
###############
The city got vaporized in a single flash! All those people - dead. Even that kid I rescued…
But my Dad’s message! We can still beat the people who did this!
They call it the Death Star, a terrible weapon, we must destroy it!
Maybe my Daddy could tell the Rebels how to do it, let’s rescue him!
…
Oh, no, Daddy!
Blast it, Cassian, you had orders to kill him? And didn’t tell me?
That raid was a disaster…
Well, neither you nor the Rebels knew Dad is a saboteur.
Now I’m an orphan… but you say you are an orphan too… forced to fight… knowing only war… just like me.
…
We must act now!
What? Can’t you see people this is the only way to destroy that doomsday thing?
If you won’t do it, I’ll do it even if I die trying!
Finally I have companions, who are willing to go with me, all the way.
We’ll take the chance, and another, until we win, or our chances are spent.
#################################
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^^^Mhm, totally no “arc” thingy here! Is that right Mr. YouTube reviewer?
As you can read above, totally boring simplistic film with just pew-pew and ay-tee-es-tees! No food for thoughts whatsoever! Move along!
Maybe not in those words and in that fashion RRS-1980, but essentially that is what I found during my last (2nd to date) viewing of R1. I didn’t notice much of it on the first watch through at the cinemas but upon a rewatch at home I found there is quite a bit of depth to Jyn’s character if you go looking for it.
It’s not a movie that holds your hand in leading you to these thoughts, it instead gives you the base information and expects you to connect the dots yourself and recognise the significance for each character as to what is happening on screen.
I’m not saying that R1 has massive amounts of character depth and development but there is definitely plenty enough there for the type of movie it is and doesn’t line up at all with some people’s assertion that it’s not primarily character driven which for some reason means it’s a bad movie and that all the characters are 2d paper thin plot devices.
.Val
I mean, you can have a perfectly decent character and still find them boring. It’s really hard to state such a subjective feeling in objective terms, and that’s where a lot of these internet discussions kind of get trapped.
I think she has very little personality other than that she’s mostly grim and down-to-business. Such an attitude doesn’t usually work without having a more sympathetic justification for that kind of coldness. Sure she lost her parents but so did Luke and Leia and they had some spirit.
The Person in Question
Valheru_84 said:
I’m not saying that R1 has massive amounts of character depth and development but there is definitely plenty enough there for the type of movie it is and doesn’t line up at all with some people’s assertion that it’s not primarily character driven which for some reason means it’s a bad movie and that all the characters are 2d paper thin plot devices.
I’m pretty sure nobody said that.
The Person in Question
I think she has very little personality other than that she’s mostly grim and down-to-business. Such an attitude doesn’t usually work without having a more sympathetic justification for that kind of coldness. Sure she lost her parents but so did Luke and Leia and they had some spirit.
Have you thought about the starkly different environments each grew up in? Luke and Leia both had stable and safe family environments and don’t even know what happened to their parents until they are adults. Jyn saw her mother get murdered by the Empire and her father abandon her. Instead she was raised by an extremist rebel who basically became her father figure and taught to become a cold and calculated rebel warrior like him. She grew up in guerrilla war conditions for years on end, likely on the run constantly to evade capture until it basically became the only real life she knew outside of her brief childhood of innocence.
Then he to abandoned her, just like her father did…at least from her certain point of view, until fortunately for the rebellion both he and her father later on had the chance to explain the truth of matters which changed every single aspect of how she had understood her life from when it first changed as a little girl.
So yeah, I’m pretty sympathetic to her situation and can understand her motives and choices at different times in her life as circumstances and her own knowledge of events changes.
.Val
Valheru_84 said:
I’m not saying that R1 has massive amounts of character depth and development but there is definitely plenty enough there for the type of movie it is and doesn’t line up at all with some people’s assertion that it’s not primarily character driven which for some reason means it’s a bad movie and that all the characters are 2d paper thin plot devices.I’m pretty sure nobody said that.
No, that’s pretty much what you allude to and what I understand is your disposition towards R1 from what you’ve said 😉
Edit: OK, so the below is what stick in my mind about your thoughts on R1 but on going back to it I read your other posts where you give the movie praise in other areas and are mostly just disappointed that it’s not more character driven:
I can credit ROTS for at least attempting to tell a character-driven story. I can’t say the same about R1.
That’s fine but I think your extremely simplified and rather incomparable comparison of the parent loss was pretty on the nose in terms of trying to back up your argument on Jyn’s character. You could say it “triggered” me somewhat and caused me to respond a bit harsher than I normally would to your next post 😉 (sorry about that).
.Val
Rationalize it all you want, she’s still boring.
Rationalize it all you want, she’s still boring.
If you find her boring that’s fine. I don’t. That’s fine to.
Trying to say Jyn’s character is cold without reason, that there’s no reason to be sympathetic towards her circumstances and comparing the loss of her parents to Luke and Leia’s as some kind kind of justification to those arguments is just plain incorrect and wrong. It almost borders on falsification, saying that kind of thing makes me wonder if they’ve even seen R1? As it doesn’t remotely sound like the movie I watched…
.Val
Rationalize it all you want, she’s still boring.
Cool.
Jyn is an awful character. Her motivations entirely flip on their side after one hologram scene and she doesn’t change much after that. She also has zero charisma (take note of Daisy Ridley) and feels just so drained of all emotion.
Apart from the sudden “unblocking” of her suppressed love to her father, a certain “extinction event” could play a major factor in filling her with new zeal, no?
I’m not surprised that Rey is winning the popularity contest with the crowd. While both Jyn an Rey had ruined childhood, Rey came out of it energetic/spunky/[whaddyacallit], while Jyn had developed depression. Nobody likes to hang around burned-out, depressed people, we only like to watch fictional ones in Oscar-worthy dramas.
She’s probably the most realistic hero of Star Wars.
During my first viewing my jaw dropped when she was saying her sobering lines.
Jyn is an awful character.
Character is a bit strong.
Jyn is an awful character.
Character is a bit strong.
Both of these posts are a bit silly.
I liked her character. I will agree with the complaint that most of the characters in RO aren’t too compelling, however.
Jyn lived under the oppression of the Empire, her parents stolen from her and having to live constantly on the run for fear of being found. She can’t have friends or any real relationships, really. She has been in and out of Imperial detention centers most of her young life.
What does she have to be happy about?
Rey, while poor and lonely, lives free of worrying about a galactic oppressor (until BB8) shows up. She has a home and can be whoever she wants to be.
Criticizing Jyn’s character for being dour about everything seems to ignore what a true hellscape her life has been in the shadow of the Empire. She is a prime example of the hopelessness that Luke’s New Hope is intended to correct.
And I can not accept Prequel and Rogue One Vader.
Could you please explain why? I mean R1 (as problems with Prequels-Vader are pretty much obvious). All I hear from people is “daddy’s joke”.
Let’s put that joke aside (which is just as perversely cruel as ESB “apologies accepted” / “Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly?” and so on, so I don’t see a problem here) and let’s ignore the hallway scene (although I’ll have to use all my willpower not to talk about a scene that got burned in my memory forever).
What’s so great about R1 Vader for me? Well, what’s so great about Vader anyway, "shouldn’t people stop idolizing a villain?"
Despite all the ruthlessness, he still seems to follow some knightly codex. And since ESB we believe “there’s good in him”.
R1 does reinforce his mysterious line from ANH and could hint to its meaning.
“Don’t be too proud of this technological terror you’ve constructed”
^^ why doesn’t the main villain like their brand-new superweapon, eh?
“A city destroyed!”, he says in R1 and then turns his back to Krennic.
Guilt, remorse… perhaps? Did you notice it? Strange, I didn’t find any oh-so-smrt reviewer analyzing this bit!
Remember “we can end this destructive conflict” from ESB?
The Vader I believe in (and thus I reject the prequels) had sworn allegiance to the Emperor/Empire believing it to be the lesser evil (prequels failed to show us that the Clone Wars were horrible and forming an empire sounded like a last chance to save the civilized galaxy from certain doom), especially after being brainwashed by Palpatine.
He won’t show mercy to the rebels, but mass killing civilians… maybe this filled him with doubts?
I find R1 Vader pretty much in-character.
that joke… is just as perversely cruel as ESB “apologies accepted” / “Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly?” and so on
Those aren’t stupid puns, the R1 joke is.
The lava planet scene is bad. The pun. The swishy way he walks. The way he wags his finger in Kenricks face. Oh so sassy, but not so Vader.
I love the rest of the stuff with him in R1 though.
And I can not accept Prequel and Rogue One Vader.
Could you please explain why? I mean R1 (as problems with Prequels-Vader are pretty much obvious). All I hear from people is “daddy’s joke”.
Let’s put that joke aside (which is just as perversely cruel as ESB “apologies accepted” / “Perhaps you think you are being treated unfairly?” and so on, so I don’t see a problem here) and let’s ignore the hallway scene (although I’ll have to use all my willpower not to talk about a scene that got burned in my memory forever).
What’s so great about R1 Vader for me? Well, what’s so great about Vader anyway, "shouldn’t people stop idolizing a villain?"
Despite all the ruthlessness, he still seems to follow some knightly codex. And since ESB we believe “there’s good in him”.R1 does reinforce his mysterious line from ANH and could hint to its meaning.
“Don’t be too proud of this technological terror you’ve constructed”
^^ why doesn’t the main villain like their brand-new superweapon, eh?
“A city destroyed!”, he says in R1 and then turns his back to Krennic.
Guilt, remorse… perhaps? Did you notice it? Strange, I didn’t find any oh-so-smrt reviewer analyzing this bit!
Remember “we can end this destructive conflict” from ESB?The Vader I believe in (and thus I reject the prequels) had sworn allegiance to the Emperor/Empire believing it to be the lesser evil (prequels failed to show us that the Clone Wars were horrible and forming an empire sounded like a last chance to save the civilized galaxy from certain doom), especially after being brainwashed by Palpatine.
He won’t show mercy to the rebels, but mass killing civilians… maybe this filled him with doubts?I find R1 Vader pretty much in-character.
There’s a passage in the original SW novelization that intrigued me long before ESB and ROTJ. Vader reflects on the destruction of Alderaan almost with regret, and then has to remind himself it was a planet of traitors. Whether that came from George or was Alan Dean Foster’s invention, I have no idea.
Where were you in '77?