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Episode IX: The Rise Of Skywalker - Discussion * SPOILER THREAD * — Page 9

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TFA ending is really the last thing one can complain about. The ending is one of very few instances in the film that are actually relevant to the “story”, among the huge collection of unrelated random shit.

真実

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lovelikewinter said:

Also, there will be no stupid Prequel shit

Sadly Sequel shit is highly likely to happen with JJ (like a 5 minutes training to acquire the jedi mind trick 😉) !

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JawsTDS said:

Release date moved to December 20th, 2019.

https://twitter.com/starwars/status/907686475512160256

Unsurprising, and a good decision. JJ was rushed enough as it was to do TFA. This is probably an even shorter timetable than that but he isn’t working from scratch this time, so it shouldn’t be too much of a problem.

Plus Star Wars movies fit so much better in December than May.

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cannot be worse than only liked because of the 80’s return of the jedi

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Lord Tobias said:

cannot be worse than only liked because of the 80’s return of the jedi

This made slightly more sense when I read it backwards, but only slightly.

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Lord Tobias said:

cannot be worse than only liked because of the 80’s return of the jedi

It’s not like music, it’s not only liked because it’s from the 80s.

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 (Edited)

TV’s Frink said:

NeverarGreat said:

TV’s Frink said:

What was the problem with the ending of TFA, exactly?

The fact that it doesn’t.

To explain: Certainly TFA has an ending, more of an ending than some movies at any rate. The problem is that it doesn’t have a Star Wars ending. In every Star Wars movie up to this one, we are able to significantly jump forward in time to the next installment, since the final scenes of each Star Wars movie before TFA have been some kind of statement or resolution (just put the words ‘deal with it’ after each of these summaries):
TPM: We saved the day. Anakin will be a Jedi.
AOTC: The Clone Wars have started. Anakin and Padme are married.
ROTS: The Empire won, our heroes are in hiding, and Anakin is Vader.
ANH: The Death Star blew up, and we’re celebrating.
ESB: We’re going to find Han no matter what.
ROTJ: The Empire lost.

TFA doesn’t end with a resolution or statement. It ends with Rey looking to Luke and basically asking him to train her. We don’t know what he will do.

And just in case you think I’m reading this as a question whereas it’s understood to be a resolution of some type, let me show you the end of the novelization:

Whether motivated by her stare or by something unknown, the figure finally turned toward her and pulled back his hood.
Luke Skywalker.
His hair and beard were white, and his countenance was haunted. He did not speak, nor did she.
Remembering, Rey reached into her pack and removed his lightsaber. Taking several steps forward, she held it out to him. An offer. A plea. The galaxy’s only hope.
She wondered what would happen next.

So it’s very clearly a cliffhanger and a question, rather than a conclusion and a statement.
Rian has even had to re-film this scene in TLJ just to answer this question. At the very least this is a complete departure from every other film in this series, and for no discernible reason other than that JJ simply had no idea where to take the story.

Sounds like that’s a “you” (and other people, to be fair to you) problem rather than a movie trilogy problem, but ok.

Also ESB isn’t that much different, and ANH was conceived as a stand-alone, and prequels lol.

The Fellowship of the Ring had an ending despite being the first movie of a trilogy. Frodo and Sam resolve to go to Mordor alone, then they start that journey as it fades to black. Nobody went back to re-film their final scene. We imagine what troubles await since we know what our characters are determined to do.

ESB had an ending despite being the second film in a trilogy. Luke and his friends resolve to find Han Solo, and then they start that search as it goes to credits. Nobody needed to re-film that scene to add more information. The journey of Luke propels him into the future, and us with him.

If TFA ended when Rey left on the Falcon to find Luke, that would be a proper ending. We would be able to imagine her long journey to Luke’s planet, and look forward to whether or not Luke would deign to train her. As it is, we’re left in the middle of a scene which the director of the next episode felt it necessary to re-film in order to complete. I don’t know what’s so difficult about understanding it. It’s certainly dramatic, but there is no more information in her handing the lightsaber to Luke than when she determined to seek him out aboard the Falcon. It’s another instance of Weaponized Intertextuality that we the audience desperately wanted to happen beyond the natural resolution of Rey’s character arc, so JJ made it happen. That’s probably why people are so defensive about this. That’s how I’ll interpret it anyway 😉

Just to make clear: TFA is a good movie, and it has an ending. The ending is just in a different place for me. Proceed with the topic at hand.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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I’m happy Abrams is directing, though I’d hoped for someone new.

I’m not happy that he’s writing, though Chris Terrio’s involvement helps a bit with that. (I firmly believe that BvS would have been significantly worse without him.)

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Let’s start with Lost. When you create a series as intriguing as that, you really need a clear idea of where you are going. So regardless of how long Abrams was involved, the lack of an ending falls on his shoulders. The fact that they couldn’t pull it out seems to be because he likes creating things that don’t go anywhere. The number of plot holes on TFA that you have to just accept for the action to lead to the map is appalling. Very bad writing.

His work in Star Trek is full of plot holes. He is the plot hole king. His lack of familiarity with the material is glaring. He made some loud, bright, fun movies, but no substance. Both Star Trek and Star Wars have substance and Abrams has had 4 tried and not captured that substance once. From the comments about his other work that I haven’t seen, that is the norm.

The man is a good director, but he is a bad writer and a bad editor (while directors don’t often actually do the edits, they are still in charge during the editing process). The only hope for this film if he is directing is if his co-writer does the hard work and the ending and if Kennedy supervises him during the editing process. Otherwise IX will end on a whimper or maybe a WTF. I really wish that Rian was going to write it and co-direct it. That might save it. Abrams has no sense of story. He does great characters and scenes, but string them together into a story isn’t one of his talents.

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 (Edited)

I don’t know what’s worse; that we’ll never be seeing a Star Wars movie from Brad Bird, or that the endless debate over the validity of TFA has now artificially extended its lifespan.

I trust Abrams to do the ‘reboot’ entry; to set things up, and implement his world famous Mystery Box. I don’t trust him to wrap things up. It was obvious he didn’t really know who Snoke was, or who Rey’s parents were, or anything at all that happened in between his movie and Return of the Jedi; a film that saw the return of the original film’s director’s involvement, and suffered heavily in quality as a result.

Once I’ve seen Johnson’s entry, I strongly feel as if I will already be able to pinpoint every story beat in JJ’s part IX.

Seeking only the most natural looking colors for Star Wars '77

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“Who is Luke Skywalker? It’s better for the mystery if the audience never finds out, really.”

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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yotsuya said:

Abrams did Lost. I don’t know of anyone who liked how it ended. His Star Trek movies sucked. TFA has major issues in terms of basic story telling. Abrams is the absolute worst person to pick for IX. I officially predict it will suck. It will be pretty, it will have great characters, but the story will have major holes and the ending will be meh. IX needs an epic ending and Abrams is the worst person to deliver that. God help us if he has anything to do with the writing of it. With a good script it stands a chance (though Abrams will likely screw up the editing like he did in TFA), but I predict he will have a hand in writing it and he will edit it and it will be the worst Star Wars movies I have ever seen. I will see it though, but I expect to be disappointed.

Interesting, because I liked the '09 film and Beyond and I’m probably the oldest old school Trekker around here.
Ironic some criticism of the '09 film was that it was essentially Trek Wars.

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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I think you’re confusing that with 2001.

“That Darth Vader, man. Sure does love eating Jedi.”

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I think the joke went right past you. 😉

Forum Moderator

Where were you in '77?

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yotsuya said:

Let’s start with Lost. When you create a series as intriguing as that, you really need a clear idea of where you are going. So regardless of how long Abrams was involved, the lack of an ending falls on his shoulders.

No. What the fuck, that literally makes no sense. TV shows are created all the time with no idea of what an ending might be. Abrams has nothing at all to do with whether you like the end of Lost or not. That’s just so fucking stupid.

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 (Edited)

I like the December release dates. Me and a friend have a standing date where we meet up the weekend after Xmas, exchange gifts and see the newest Star Wars movie again in the comfy deluxe seats. Then we go to Burgartory and eat. Good times.

It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher

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I seem to remember an interview (maybe the Nerdist podcast?) in which Abrams said he had next to no creative involvement in Lost beyond the first episode. JJ directed the pilot (which, fine, yes, was a 2-parter, so 2 episodes), but the show was always Lindelof’s baby.

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joefavs said:

I seem to remember an interview (maybe the Nerdist podcast?) in which Abrams said he had next to no creative involvement in Lost beyond the first episode. JJ directed the pilot (which, fine, yes, was a 2-parter, so 2 episodes), but the show was always Lindelof’s baby.

I’ve heard that as well. Also, don’t forget Carlton Cuse.

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ATMachine said:

“Who is Luke Skywalker? It’s better for the mystery if the audience never finds out, really.”

What is this even supposed to mean.

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DominicCobb said:

yotsuya said:

Let’s start with Lost. When you create a series as intriguing as that, you really need a clear idea of where you are going. So regardless of how long Abrams was involved, the lack of an ending falls on his shoulders.

No. What the fuck, that literally makes no sense. TV shows are created all the time with no idea of what an ending might be. Abrams has nothing at all to do with whether you like the end of Lost or not. That’s just so fucking stupid.

Don’t you remember the first episode of Friends where Ross and Rachel almost got together but then didn’t and then did and then fought and then “took a break” and then Ross cheated because they were “on a break” and then they broke up for good and they were both sad and then a bunch of other stuff happened which I can’t remember because I lost interest? This all happened in the pilot, remember?

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TV’s Frink said:

ATMachine said:

“Who is Luke Skywalker? It’s better for the mystery if the audience never finds out, really.”

What is this even supposed to mean.

I think it means that Robert Patrick should have directed Episode IX.