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The Prequel Radical Redux Ideas Thread — Page 271

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As much as I’m going to get punished for this I would really like to see an edit where Grevious is replaced with Darth Jar Jar just to see what it’s like.

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Jeebus said:

Octorox said:

Weird probably impossible idea, could C-3PO replace both TC-14 and JarJar in the Phantom Menace?

3PO belongs to the trade federation and greets Qui-Gon and Obi on the ship in the beginning (re colored and redubbed with an Anthony Daniels soundalike or Daniels’ voice clips from cartoons/radio dramas etc.)

Then he somehow accidentally stumbles onto one of the federation drop ships and winds up on the surface, saved by Qui-Gon instead of JarJar (would have to rotoscope out JarJar frame by frame and composite in new footage of an actor in 3PO costume). He accompanies them from then on, and his meet cute with R2 is moved earlier to the scene when Padme is cleaning R2 (3PO again replacing JarJar)

Could lead to some fun exchanges:

Qui-Gon:
You almost got us killed! Are you brainless?

C-3PO:
I’ll have you know, I’m fluent in over six million forms of-

Qui-Gon:
The ability to speak doesn’t make you intelligent. Now get out of here.

I too had been tossing this idea around in my head for a while, not really as a fan-edit idea, but more of a “I wish Lucas had done this.” I don’t know if this is possible, but I’ll be damned if it shouldn’t be attempted.

I did a rewrite years ago that did just this. 3PO was the comic relief from the beginning in place of TC14 and replacing Jar Jar. He was the translator for the Jedi and the Gungans, etc. But he started on the TF vessel as a programmer for binary load lifters(a nod to Star Wars)on board the TF ship loading cargo. That is ostensibly what those vessels do: they load cargo. The only difference for Episode One is the cargo this time is a droid army.
Qui-Gon rips 3PO’s restraining bolt off of him and takes him along as he might “be of some use to them”, to Obi-Wan’s chagrin.

But yes, wish fulfillment more than anything. Jar Jar can be somewhat redeemed if he just acts more bravely during the end battle. Then he goes from coward to brave warrior and completes his journey.

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ben_danger said:

An idea from ROGUE ONE I really enjoyed was that the DEATH STAR is powered by the same crystals used in the Lightsabers.

If you were to maintain that the concept of a superweapon powered by such crystals is the objective of the SEPARATISTS, then could the world’s they invade/conquer (so NABOO) be Kyber rich worlds? Perhaps even GEONOSIS is actually a superweapon in progress - much like STARKILLER base (which could also be re-explained in a VII edit as a forgotten other version).

One rewrite I did of AOTC had the separatists use a oxygen destroyer that made a planet very inhospitable but still livable. That way we would escalate the weaponry and go from that terrible weapon to the ultimate one: the DS in the OT that doesnt just make planets terrible to live on but destroys them.

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Smithers said:

Bingowings said:

As much as I’m going to get punished for this I would really like to see an edit where Grevious is replaced with Darth Jar Jar just to see what it’s like.

As a serious plot point or for irony? Maybe if both were dubbed by a new voice it could be a good twist.

Either as an extension of the existing apparent Stepin Fetchit buffoon character or as the conclusion of the arc of an altered character. I just want to see how this fan theory would look as an edit.

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Maybe this might mean something to someone for a Prequel idea in explaining Luke and princess Leia being brother and sister

To hide Anakin’s offsprings from Emperor Palpatine, Queen Padme Amidala of alderaan shows the girl to the king claiming he’s the father to hide the affair with Anakin who was sworn to protect her, while Anakin is told that it was a single pregnancy, a baby boy (for gender matching reasons) that’s later taken to be hidden on tatooine by Obi-Wan.

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I would like to add two ideas, I don’t know if anyone already mentioned those ideas, so I’ll just explain them here, they are both about the final part of the 3rd movie.

  1. I think Yoda fighting Palpatine was a great moment in the 3rd movie, and it should be preserved. I saw people suggesting it should be removed from the third movie, but I believe it makes Yoda look like a coward, just running away and leaving the Sith to rule the Galaxy.

I understand that the fact that he is unable to beat Palpatine makes Luke victory seems “too easy” in ROTJ, but with some clever editing it is possible to make it look like Yoda was winning the fight but Palpatine was saved by imperial troopers. I mean, in the last scene, when Yoda and Palpatine where exchanging lighting, only Palpatine would fall. Yoda would stand on his feet but in that moment, imperial troopers comes and shoot Yoda, that falls when trying to avoid being hit by the lasers.

  1. I don’t think Padme’s labor should be seen. Besides giving away that Luke and Leia are brothers, if Padme Lives, it doesn’t give a good explanation to why Luke was separated from Padme and his sister. I think it would be enough if we see Natalie Portman scene in Ana Bolena with a baby girl in the end of the 3rd movie, without seeing her labor. That way someone who sees the prequels would think she only had one baby girl (preserving the secret of Luke being Darth Vader’s son) and avoiding giving a decent explanation to why Luke was separated from his mother.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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iamweasel said:

I would like to add two ideas, I don’t know if anyone already mentioned those ideas, so I’ll just explain them here, they are both about the final part of the 3rd movie.

  1. I think Yoda fighting Palpatine was a great moment in the 3rd movie, and it should be preserved. I saw people suggesting it should be removed from the third movie, but I believe it makes Yoda look like a coward, just running away and leaving the Sith to rule the Galaxy.

I understand that the fact that he is unable to beat Palpatine makes Luke victory seems “too easy” in ROTJ, but with some clever editing it is possible to make it look like Yoda was winning the fight but Palpatine was saved by imperial troopers. I mean, in the last scene, when Yoda and Palpatine where exchanging lighting, only Palpatine would fall. Yoda would stand on his feet but in that moment, imperial troopers comes and shoot Yoda, that falls when trying to avoid being hit by the lasers.

  1. I don’t think Padme’s labor should be seen. Besides giving away that Luke and Leia are brothers, if Padme Lives, it doesn’t give a good explanation to why Luke was separated from Padme and his sister. I think it would be enough if we see Natalie Portman scene in Ana Bolena with a baby girl in the end of the 3rd movie, without seeing her labor. That way someone who sees the prequels would think she only had one baby girl (preserving the secret of Luke being Darth Vader’s son) and avoiding giving a decent explanation to why Luke was separated from his mother.

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

The main objections to Palaptine and Yoda’s fights in general seem to be that they diminish these two powerful being to just another computer game boss.

Yoda is always dismissive of weapons and Palpatine describes the Saber as a Jedi thing so it makes no sense that the two should fight with Sabers.
Having Palpatine kill a Jedi with his own weapon for laughs fits in with his twisted sense of fun but I can’t see him having one himself.
If the Yoda and Palatine fight was in the nature of the later half of the fight (throwing architecture and energy around) that too might be redeemable but the silly facial expressions and dodgy effects would be difficult to work around.
Having the Emperor saved by Clones would undermine his power (he has just won two wars that he instigated, he has exterminated most of the Jedi and brought down the Republic).

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Bingowings said:

The main objections to Palaptine and Yoda’s fights in general seem to be that they diminish these two powerful being to just another computer game boss.

Yoda is always dismissive of weapons and Palpatine describes the Saber as a Jedi thing so it makes no sense that the two should fight with Sabers.
Having Palpatine kill a Jedi with his own weapon for laughs fits in with his twisted sense of fun but I can’t see him having one himself.
If the Yoda and Palatine fight was in the nature of the later half of the fight (throwing architecture and energy around) that too might be redeemable but the silly facial expressions and dodgy effects would be difficult to work around.
Having the Emperor saved by Clones would undermine his power (he has just won two wars that he instigated, he has exterminated most of the Jedi and brought down the Republic).

It is indeed an interesting view of those two characters, and I could easily accept your interpretation, and with clever edition it could be made to have them fighting only without sabers (it would only become a short fight, but it isn’t a big problem IMHO).

Although Yoda doesn’t like weapons (and GL himself said once that Yoda doesn’t fight but he probably would deny it now) I must only say that despite those facts, Yoda using a saber isn’t something absurd (it is a jedi weapon and he’s a Jedi, so it is only reasonable that he uses one). And he also said “Destroy the Sith we must”. Palpatine using a saber is something more difficult do explain, since as you quoted him saying, it is a “Jedi weapon”. But his apprentices also use sabers, so he could be only acknowledging Luke as a Jedi by the fact that he had a saber.

The question about his power being undermined by being saved by troopers… I think that ship has sailed when he was easily killed by Darth Vader (something he wasn’t able to predict and wasn’t even able to put a fight against Vader (something I hope someone can fix in a future ROTJ edit).

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Yoda is a Jedi but at no point in ESB or ROTJ do we get any evidence that he was ever a Jedi Knight.
He constantly pushed Luke to avoid violence, avoid weapons, avoid confrontations until he is ready. And only then in the context of confronting and defeating his own personal fears not Vader or even the Emperor.
Ben on the other hand flat out tells Luke he has to kill his father in order to save the galaxy. During his first face to face meeting he gives Luke a weapon and tells him a lie setting him on a course that will lead him to confront Vader. He lets himself be killed infront of Luke possibly hours after this. He is a militant character.
Yoda is more of a guru, a teacher a source of knowledge.
Luke ultimately rejects Ben’s demand to kill and accepts Yoda’s lesson of facing fear, this rescues Anakin. The true ‘other’ the real ‘new hope’ the only person Palpatine would allow to get close enough to throw him down a really stupidly placed hole in the floor.
I realise this is my interpretation of the characters which is totally flipped by the prequels as they currently exist but it just seems odd to me that a philosophy such as the Force would only have a military arm. There are Buddhist and Taoist, even Christian warrior monks but they are a tiny sub faction of philosophies devoted to different things.

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Bingowings said:

Yoda is a Jedi but at no point in ESB or ROTJ do we get any evidence that he was ever a Jedi Knight.
He constantly pushed Luke to avoid violence, avoid weapons, avoid confrontations until he is ready. And only then in the context of confronting and defeating his own personal fears not Vader or even the Emperor.
Ben on the other hand flat out tells Luke he has to kill his father in order to save the galaxy. During his first face to face meeting he gives Luke a weapon and tells him a lie setting him on a course that will lead him to confront Vader. He lets himself be killed infront of Luke possibly hours after this. He is a militant character.
Yoda is more of a guru, a teacher a source of knowledge.
Luke ultimately rejects Ben’s demand to kill and accepts Yoda’s lesson of facing fear, this rescues Anakin. The true ‘other’ the real ‘new hope’ the only person Palpatine would allow to get close enough to throw him down a really stupidly placed hole in the floor.
I realise this is my interpretation of the characters which is totally flipped by the prequels as they currently exist but it just seems odd to me that a philosophy such as the Force would only have a military arm. There are Buddhist and Taoist, even Christian warrior monks but they are a tiny sub faction of philosophies devoted to different things.

This is a nice debate, is always good to talk with someone that has deep knowledge and understanding of Star Wars as you have, Bingowings. 😃 That being said, back to the topic:

Well, it seems to me that the problem is, there are different Yodas. It seems to me that you talk about the ESB Yoda, which I believe is the Yoda we all feel is the best. But we also have the ROTJ Yoda, who says that Luke must confront (and kill) Vader (and we can assume the emperor as well). This is the same Yoda that said in ESB that Luke had to sacrifice his friends “if he cares for what they fight for”, and also said in the prequels that “destroy the Sith we must”. As different as these Yodas may be, the all seem to share a view that the ends justifies the means, even if it means the death of people close to us (and that fight for the same thing).

I don’t blame him. We must remember that they were at war with the Sith, who was killing Jedis across the galaxy. So he had a choice: fight against (and kill if possible) the Sith or face his own death (and the end of the Jedis). Unless we consider he’s a saint that feels its best dying then fighting, than we should consider that, as much as he hates fighting, he has to carry a saber to defend his life and the Jedis if needed.

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Yoda doesn’t ask Luke to kill his father. He tells him he must face him (as he must face his fear of becoming like Vader as illustrated by the cave). Ben is the one who tells him the galaxy is lost if Luke will not kill his last remaining parent.
So Luke follow Yoda’s advice but only after almost turning to the dark side following Ben’s.

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Yoda and Ben are in agreement that Luke should confront (being ready to kill) Vader and the Emperor.
They tell Luke not to go in ESB because he’s not ready yet. I see this obnoxious train of thought where people think that they were wrong to do this, which couldn’t be further from the truth. The situation in Cloud City is explicitly a trap for Luke, he doesn’t have any effect on the rescue of his friends at all, he gets his hand cut off, and almost dies. (Of course it’s much better and more interesting for this to happen from a story perspective.)

Then in ROTJ he’s ready and so they encourage him to go. The emphasis is on his readiness and ability to reject the dark side, not a violence or nonviolence issue. Luke doesn’t toss aside his lightsaber because he’s a pacifist (see - the rest of the movie before that) but because he realizes he is playing into the Emperor’s game by becoming angry and vengeful in his violence. He doesn’t mope around about Vader tossing the Emperor either, or his friends blowing up stormtroopers and TIE fighters. The question is motivation, not militancy.

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Yoda tells Luke he will confront Vader again but he doesn’t request that he kill him.
Ben basically says it’s essential that Luke kills his sole remaining parent.
So in that regard they are two very different kinds of Jedi.
One believes in the powerful influence of inner control and the other believes in martial action, exterior action.
In the end Luke does confront his father but he turns away from the darkness allowing Anakin the chance to Return and defeat Vader and Palpatine.
This doesn’t chime with Yoda of the prequels who on one hand tells Anakin to let go of his Mother and his Wife but on the other hand walks into the Emperor’s office after slaying many brainwashed clones and attempts to assassinate a Sith Lord with a weapon.
It would be better if Yoda didn’t appear in the prequels at all, he is hidden away holding the knowledge that will save the Galaxy he doesn’t need to make an appearence.

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What kind of confrontation could Luke have that would not result in him fighting Vader? Was he just supposed to incapacitate him? Was he supposed to talk to him and then carry on with the rebels?

Luke tells Obi Wan "I can’t kill my own father."
Obi Wan says "Then the Emperor has already won."
The killing part was Luke’s idea. Obi Wan is responding to his hesitancy to confront Vader, not whether or not he should kill him. He has to be willing to kill him if need arises, because that’s what a confrontation means (especially with lightsabers.)

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Vladius said:

What kind of confrontation could Luke have that would not result in him fighting Vader? Was he just supposed to incapacitate him? Was he supposed to talk to him and then carry on with the rebels?

Luke tells Obi Wan "I can’t kill my own father."
Obi Wan says "Then the Emperor has already won."
The killing part was Luke’s idea. Obi Wan is responding to his hesitancy to confront Vader, not whether or not he should kill him. He has to be willing to kill him if need arises, because that’s what a confrontation means (especially with lightsabers.)

YODA : Away put your weapon.
BEN : It’s your father’s Lightsaber.
YODA : Your weapons, you will not need them
BEN : (the quote you use).

Yoda isn’t interested in Luke confronting Vader as a military target.
He wan’ts Luke to confront his fear and conquer it. His fear is he will become Vader and he almost does by following Ben’s line of thinking. Instead (going by the sequels) he becomes Ben which is a bit of a shame.

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Maybe Luke’s ROTJ sabre has a green blade because he salvaged a crystal from Yavin space… just suggestin’

Maybe the Empire had processed these crystals to make the Death Star Weapon work so reducing the need for green blades in the prequels

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Bingowings said:

Maybe Luke’s ROTJ sabre has a green blade because he salvaged a crystal from Yavin space… just suggestin’

Maybe the Empire had processed these crystals to make the Death Star Weapon work so reducing the need for green blades in the prequels

What if the Kyber used by Luke for his ROTJ saber was actually a shard of the big one used to power the Death Star. That’d be an interesting idea to play with I think.

I mean, well beyond the scope of any fanedit, but still interesting to think about.

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Darth Lucas said:

Bingowings said:

Maybe Luke’s ROTJ sabre has a green blade because he salvaged a crystal from Yavin space… just suggestin’

Maybe the Empire had processed these crystals to make the Death Star Weapon work so reducing the need for green blades in the prequels

What if the Kyber used by Luke for his ROTJ saber was actually a shard of the big one used to power the Death Star. That’d be an interesting idea to play with I think.

I mean, well beyond the scope of any fanedit, but still interesting to think about.

The Dark Crystal vibes are strong with this idea.

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)

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Darth Lucas said:

Bingowings said:

Maybe Luke’s ROTJ sabre has a green blade because he salvaged a crystal from Yavin space… just suggestin’

Maybe the Empire had processed these crystals to make the Death Star Weapon work so reducing the need for green blades in the prequels

What if the Kyber used by Luke for his ROTJ saber was actually a shard of the big one used to power the Death Star. That’d be an interesting idea to play with I think.

I think that’s what he was going for.

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From a fan edit perspective it would mean making all Jedi saber blades blue in the PT and making Luke’s the first green one in ROTJ. If you wanted to add an obvious explanation you have to add it to the beginning of ROTJ The film could begin with Luke in his X wing with the familiar orange gas giant of Yavin in frame too. It could in the crawl explain that Luke completed his training with Yoda and that the Jedi master tasked him with one last test before his off screen death. As Luke meditates he hears Ben tell Luke he must face Vader again. Telepathically. When he comes to that point a tiny green crystal is retrieved. This would lead into Vader arriving at the new Death Star. An undoing of the victory of the first film. What the crystal does would be hinted at by the colour of Luke’s blade when he first ignites it and add some degree of sense to Vader’s marvelling at his son’s new weapon. As he had used the force to find the needle in the haystack of salvaged debris.

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Bingowings said:

From a fan edit perspective it would mean making all Jedi saber blades blue in the PT and making Luke’s the first green one in ROTJ. If you wanted to add an obvious explanation you have to add it to the beginning of ROTJ The film could begin with Luke in his X wing with the familiar orange gas giant of Yavin in frame too. It could in the crawl explain that Luke completed his training with Yoda and that the Jedi master tasked him with one last test before his off screen death. As Luke meditates he hears Ben tell Luke he must face Vader again. Telepathically. When he comes to that point a tiny green crystal is retrieved. This would lead into Vader arriving at the new Death Star. An undoing of the victory of the first film. What the crystal does would be hinted at by the colour of Luke’s blade when he first ignites it and add some degree of sense to Vader’s marvelling at his son’s new weapon. As he had used the force to find the needle in the haystack of salvaged debris.

That’s a cool idea. Because it’s cool, I made a thing:

Guided by visions in the Force, Luke Skywalker has foreseen but one perilous way to rescue Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt.

As his friends gather on Tatooine to put his plan into motion, Luke travels to the wreckage of the Death Star, eye of the Emperor’s grand vision, in search of an ancient weapon.

Little does Luke know that the Emperor constructs another eye to complete a vision he has long foreseen, spelling certain doom for the Jedi, the Rebellion, and all freedom in the galaxy…

You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)