Best video I have ever seen when it comes to the dissection of the new disney films.
By his standard Ripley and Sarah Connor are passive protagonists
Both of those protagonists’ first films were on the horror side of Sci-fi, which is all about having things happen to them until they take action to defeat the threat.
It’s notable that their second films (Terminator 2 and Aliens) are much more conventional action films, allowing the protagonists to be very active.
Come on, that’s just special pleading. There are countless movies where things happen to the protagonist that they have no control over. All that matters is whether it’s well done or not. I mean think mow many origin stories involve something happening to the protagonist that serves as an inspiration for later action. Heck, Luke Skywalker was pretty damn passive until his parents got incinerated.
I don’t think the guy was trying to hate on anything, but some of his points were just silly.
Luke is passive for much of the runtime of Star Wars, but he’s still an active protagonist. There are really only 2 major actions that he takes without coercion: rescuing the princess and joining the Rebellion. However, these two actions drive the last half of the film, and that’s the point. There are often limited opportunities for the protagonist to take action, so those few actions must be consequential, and in Star Wars, they are.
In Alien, Ripley is in command throughout the second half of the film and continually drives the plot through her decisions (learning about the Company’s plans, confronting Ash, deciding to abandon ship, and most importantly overcoming her fear and using ingenuity to defeat the alien at the end). And it’s not special pleading to say that this is a horror film, since almost all horror films are designed so that the antagonist has the upper hand with the hero on the defensive for most of the runtime. The same can be said for Terminator.
With regards to Jyn and Rey, they are often passive protagonists because the few active character moments they share do not drive the remaining action, at least in the case of Rey. Jyn’s (somewhat confused) decision to get the Death Star plans galvanizes the entire Rebellion into action, which is a very active role but a bit late in the story. She really needed a decision in the 2nd act which was more impactful to the plot, like Luke’s rescue of Leia. In the case of TFA, Finn takes the active role in rescuing Rey and becomes the protagonist for almost the entire Starkiller plot, at least until Rey retrieves the lightsaber. I do not count her mind trick, since although it is an active choice, it doesn’t drive the plot - Finn could have almost as easily rescued her and arrived at the same place.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
Good post Neverar, but Luke does take a couple more actions of his own volition. For one, refusing to go with Kenobi was a willful action. Then of course changing his mind and deciding to go with him was as well.
Refusal of the call / accepting the call
Best video I have ever seen when it comes to the dissection of the new disney films.
By his standard Ripley and Sarah Connor are passive protagonists
Both of those protagonists’ first films were on the horror side of Sci-fi, which is all about having things happen to them until they take action to defeat the threat.
It’s notable that their second films (Terminator 2 and Aliens) are much more conventional action films, allowing the protagonists to be very active.
Come on, that’s just special pleading. There are countless movies where things happen to the protagonist that they have no control over. All that matters is whether it’s well done or not. I mean think mow many origin stories involve something happening to the protagonist that serves as an inspiration for later action. Heck, Luke Skywalker was pretty damn passive until his parents got incinerated.
I don’t think the guy was trying to hate on anything, but some of his points were just silly.
Luke is passive for much of the runtime of Star Wars, but he’s still an active protagonist. There are really only 2 major actions that he takes without coercion: rescuing the princess and joining the Rebellion. However, these two actions drive the last half of the film, and that’s the point. There are often limited opportunities for the protagonist to take action, so those few actions must be consequential, and in Star Wars, they are.
In Alien, Ripley is in command throughout the second half of the film and continually drives the plot through her decisions (learning about the Company’s plans, confronting Ash, deciding to abandon ship, and most importantly overcoming her fear and using ingenuity to defeat the alien at the end). And it’s not special pleading to say that this is a horror film, since almost all horror films are designed so that the antagonist has the upper hand with the hero on the defensive for most of the runtime. The same can be said for Terminator.
With regards to Jyn and Rey, they are often passive protagonists because the few active character moments they share do not drive the remaining action, at least in the case of Rey. Jyn’s (somewhat confused) decision to get the Death Star plans galvanizes the entire Rebellion into action, which is a very active role but a bit late in the story. She really needed a decision in the 2nd act which was more impactful to the plot, like Luke’s rescue of Leia. In the case of TFA, Finn takes the active role in rescuing Rey and becomes the protagonist for almost the entire Starkiller plot, at least until Rey retrieves the lightsaber. I do not count her mind trick, since although it is an active choice, it doesn’t drive the plot - Finn could have almost as easily rescued her and arrived at the same place.
Maybe I wasn’t been clear… I actually don’t give a shit about rules for “active/passive protagonists”… I only care if a movie is good or not.
I thought Rogue One was awesome and could care less whether it followed some made up rules for screenwriting or not.
The Force Awakens actually followed those rules more, yet it was quite a bit worse IMO.
Maybe I wasn’t been clear… I actually don’t give a shit about rules for “active/passive protagonists”… I only care if a movie is good or not.
I thought Rogue One was awesome and could care less whether it followed some made up rules for screenwriting or not.
Those “rules” are what makes a movie good though. They aren’t arbitrary.
Maybe I wasn’t been clear… I actually don’t give a shit about rules for “active/passive protagonists”… I only care if a movie is good or not.
I thought Rogue One was awesome and could care less whether it followed some made up rules for screenwriting or not.
Those “rules” are what makes a movie good though. They aren’t arbitrary.
Well I guess TFA and Rogue One must have followed them since by all ways we have to measure critical and audience reaction the films are considered very good to great.
I’m being a bit tongue in cheek; there are definitely guidelines that I think can help many screenplays be more successful… but they aren’t nearly as important as you make them out to be. A compelling story and characters are far more important. You can follow every rule in the book but you will still fail with out a compelling story and/or characters
One could pretty effectively argue that TESB breaks by far the most “screenwriting rules” of the OT films… and it’s easily (IMO) the best
One could pretty effectively argue that TESB breaks by far the most “screenwriting rules” of the OT films… and it’s easily (IMO) the best
What screenwriting rules does ESB break?
Those “rules” are what makes a movie good though. They aren’t arbitrary.
Rules? Don’t be silly. This is art, not your mom’s house.
What screenwriting rules does ESB break?
None because there are no rules. As long as things make sense and are relevant to the plot, they are fine. TFA sucks because 2/3 of the things are not relevant to the plot.
真実
When the Death Star, under command the command of Grand Moff Tarkin, followed the Millennium Falcon to Yavin via tracking device and was subsequently destroyed, it is almost certain that they did not keep the location of the Rebel Base a total secret from the rest of the Imperial Navy. As such, even though the Death Star was destroyed, the Base’s location was no longer secret. How, then, did the Rebellion have time for an awards ceremony before evacuating? Surely the arrival of some portion of the Imperial Navy was imminent.
When the Death Star, under command the command of Grand Moff Tarkin, followed the Millennium Falcon to Yavin via tracking device and was subsequently destroyed, it is almost certain that they did not keep the location of the Rebel Base a total secret from the rest of the Imperial Navy. As such, even though the Death Star was destroyed, the Base’s location was no longer secret. How, then, did the Rebellion have time for an awards ceremony before evacuating? Surely the arrival of some portion of the Imperial Navy was imminent.
Dramatic license
I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.
When the Death Star, under command the command of Grand Moff Tarkin, followed the Millennium Falcon to Yavin via tracking device and was subsequently destroyed, it is almost certain that they did not keep the location of the Rebel Base a total secret from the rest of the Imperial Navy. As such, even though the Death Star was destroyed, the Base’s location was no longer secret. How, then, did the Rebellion have time for an awards ceremony before evacuating? Surely the arrival of some portion of the Imperial Navy was imminent.
Depends on exactly when the ceremony is…if it’s the day after I can see them maybe squeezing it in the morning.
Then they fixed Artoo up by pulling an all nighter? 😉
It’s also possible Tarkin wanted to hog all the glory, and kept a blackout on where they were going. The question of why the Imperial Navy didn’t show up soon after was addressed in the Marvel comic. The Empire was trying to conceal that their biggest weapon went kaboom, and massive fleet movements would betray something was amiss.
ESB certainly proved the Rebels could take out a stardestroyer or two while bugging out.
The simplest explanation is Star Wars was originally intended as a standalone film.
Where were you in '77?
I like to think the Yavin system is so far away from the civilized centre of the galaxy that it takes several days to travel there.
But hyperspace…
Ah never mind, I should just repeat to myself it’s just a show, I should really just relax.
But hyperspace…
Ah never mind, I should just repeat to myself it’s just a show, I should really just relax.
Wait until you see Season 11. 😉
Where were you in '77?
May the 4th be with us, every one!
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
I just got into a fight with some green haired millennial on facebook because I responded to the Star Wars Official Page’s question of what are you doing May 4th with watching the Silver Screen Edition. I hate this Prequel generation more and more. Stop having shitty taste.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
^Precisely why I don’t self-identify as a Millennial. I prefer to think of myself as a Generation X.5er.
I just got into a fight with some green haired millennial on facebook because I responded to the Star Wars Official Page’s question of what are you doing May 4th with watching the Silver Screen Edition. I hate this Prequel generation more and more. Stop having shitty taste.
What’s worse, Facebook or Youtube comments? 😉
Where were you in '77?
I just got into a fight with some green haired millennial on facebook because I responded to the Star Wars Official Page’s question of what are you doing May 4th with watching the Silver Screen Edition. I hate this Prequel generation more and more. Stop having shitty taste.
What’s worse, Facebook or Youtube comments? 😉
Youtube comments for sure. There you can use an alias.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
I just got into a fight with some green haired millennial on facebook because I responded to the Star Wars Official Page’s question of what are you doing May 4th with watching the Silver Screen Edition. I hate this Prequel generation more and more. Stop having shitty taste.
What’s worse, Facebook or Youtube comments? 😉
Youtube comments for sure. There you can use an alias.
Yes, definitely YouTube comments. I try to avoid even reading them for my own health.
So I get Think Geek emails because I signed up for them to enter to win a chance to buy a NES Classic (I did win). This was in my inbox this afternoon.
Meesa called Jar-Jar Binks. Meesa wish you a groov 4th-a.
I hate the world.
It seems like people are really embracing the new characters. In fact, the big question people ask me now about Star Wars is, “Are Finn and Poe gay lovers?” And really how the f*ck would I know? My second husband left me for a man, so my gaydar isn’t exactly what you’d call Death Star level quality. ----Carrie Fisher
A “groov 4th-a”?
What’s a groov? Did they mean to say “Groovy” or is this a Binks thing that I don’t remember?
I do hope you’re all having a groovy Star Wars Day. Me n’ the lady will be flipping a coin to see if we watch Star Wars or Empire tonight.
I like your lady
I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.
A “groov 4th-a”?
What’s a groov? Did they mean to say “Groovy” or is this a Binks thing that I don’t remember?I do hope you’re all having a groovy Star Wars Day. Me n’ the lady will be flipping a coin to see if we watch Star Wars or Empire tonight.
ESB Revisited is coming out next month! I know we all already know, but I’m very excited and thought I’d clutter up this thread with it instead of the ESB:R thread.
YEEEYWOOOW!!