- Time
- Post link
The thing that’s most annoying about the “Rey phenomenon” (aka “Operation Squirrelface”)
I like this guy.
I’m not surprised.
THIS !
I would put this in my sig if I weren’t so lazy.
The Force Awakens: Official Review Thread - ** SPOILERS ** — Page 145
- Time
- Post link
The thing that’s most annoying about the “Rey phenomenon” (aka “Operation Squirrelface”)
I like this guy.
I’m not surprised.
THIS !
LOL
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
Wrong thread
Also, take this shit somewhere else.
- Time
- Post link
Wrong thread
Also, take Mala somewhere else.
WYSHS
- Time
- Post link
TV Tropes goes into some detail as to why the term has lost its meaning, but the gist of it is that it was originally intended to describe perfect female avatars of authors writing fanfiction, since at that time many online fanfictions were written by women. The term could also be used for perfect male author avatars (Gary Stu), but this term never saw wide usage since there already existed a term for this character: Action Hero (James Bond, John Matrix)
LOL! This is a ridiculous attempt at equivalence. And that’s the last I’m saying on this subject.
That’s a shame, because I really don’t know what is ridiculous about comparing male and female versions of power fantasy characters. The fact that one version has expanded into a genre and established itself within popular culture whereas the other has acquired a pejorative usage doesn’t negate the fact that action heroes are often Gary Stus. Not all are, but quite a few. To take another comment on the BMD article, Vin Diesel is a Gary Stu in practically everything he makes. On the literature side, the Name of the Wind, a book that my brother is enamored with, centers around a classic Gary Stu. And I enjoy Vin Diesel’s movies (for the most part) and The Name of the Wind. My point is, I don’t think people should criticize Mary Sue or Gary Stu characters simply for being author avatar power fantasies, but I do think it’s enlightening to realize when a character is essentially that.
Also, as I’ve pointed out already, I DON’T THINK REY IS A MARY SUE, and even if she was, I would have no problem with that if her character appeared in an original work. I totally understand why people get defensive when the term gets thrown around, but female power fantasies are a genre, and I don’t think people should judge a genre to be wholly without merit. The problem is that due to insufficient backstory and unearned character moments, she feels like a Mary Sue in Star Wars, which has never been a power fantasy (despite what some people say). It’s a problem with many small elements of plot which are omitted throughout the film, culminating in a character that feels less than coherent.
You probably don’t recognize me because of the red arm.
Episode 9 Rewrite, The Starlight Project (Released!) and ANH Technicolor Project (Released!)
- Time
- Post link
Rey was able to do a mind trick without even seeing it done or being trained regarding it, but she did experience Kylo reading her thoughts, so she isn’t entirely unfamiliar with the idea of manipulating with someone’s mind.
This is the thing that bugs me, and it’s because of the execution - we don’t see her thought process at all. I came to this conclusion as well, but I shouldn’t have to mentally edit the film for them.
This exactly. Most of these Mary Sue accusations are happening not because of misogyny or because people don’t like her character but because there’s one too many conveniences and assumptions made on the part of the writers/director, and the mind trick is the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back.
You are missing the point. It’s not the conveniences and assumptions that make it misogyny, it’s the term itself. And I’ve covered why the term is problematic many, many times before, so I’m not going to do it again…but it boils down to the fact that it is applied to women 99.2% of the time, while men get a free pass in the same situation.
I assume you mean that it is applied to female characters instead of male characters.
TV Tropes goes into some detail as to why the term has lost its meaning, but the gist of it is that it was originally intended to describe perfect female avatars of authors writing fanfiction, since at that time many online fanfictions were written by women. The term could also be used for perfect male author avatars (Gary Stu), but this term never saw wide usage since there already existed a term for this character: Action Hero (James Bond, John Matrix) or the (Frink Trigger Warning) anime equivalent (Light Yagami, Kirito). The fact of the matter is that female and male authors tend to have different interests with regards to their wish fulfillment fantasies, so Mary Sue and Gary Stu tend to be easily distinguishable from each other and people don’t generally need a new term when they have one that is sufficient for their purposes.
Additionally, the term was invented for a character on a Star Trek parody fanfic, so the term was inherently unserious, a way of bundling a lot of wish fulfillment impulses together under a single name. Since the original work was a parody, it was written with this intent and was appreciated as such. That is why the James Bond franchise has been so popular, and why Twilight has succeeded - sometimes, wish fulfillment is preferable to believable characters.
However, there has been no Mary Sue or Gary Stu character in the Star Wars films. Even the most powerful character is written believably in the context of the magical universe in which they live. We are given reasons for why Anakin is so powerful, why Yoda can life an X-wing, and why Palpatine is able to rule the galaxy (sort of). We are given no similar reason for why Rey is strong with the Force. We are not told that she was conceived by the Force, like Anakin, nor are we told that she comes from a family of Force users, like Luke. Similarly, every character in the Star Wars films has had to spend years honing their skills in order to even levitate small objects, something which Rey is able to do by the end of the film. It is not because she is female that these skills are a problem, it is because her ability has no precedent nor explanation in the Star Wars universe. Hopefully TLJ addresses this, but it would still be a retcon to this film.
But is Rey a Mary Sue? Like I’ve discussed exhaustively elsewhere, she is not. But she does have elements of wish fulfillment (male or female), such as with the mind trick and lightsaber levitation, among others. This is why I can’t agree with those people who give her a free pass because she’s the first female protagonist in the Star Wars films. Take this comment on the BMD article:
“If Rey is a Mary Sue, what she represents is way fucking more important than that label. The women and girls who get to see Rey on the movie screen and want to be the hero of their own story, that matters more than any amount of nitpicks on the internet.” -Ed
This is the problem, that the only reason people are okay with her being so badly explained as part of the Star Wars universe is because she is wish fulfillment for women and girls. I agree that such representation was necessary, but that doesn’t forgive the problem of making her the female equivalent of the Action Hero. She could easily have been established as Luke’s daughter or Chosen by the Force and these problems would have evaporated on the spot.
Hear hear, great post NeverarGreat.
.Valheru
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
You are missing the point. …it boils down to the fact that it is applied to women 99.2% of the time
Yeah, because the fact that the character is a precocious girl is part of what makes it such a transparently pandering trope.
while men get a free pass in the same situation.
I sure hope you mean “male characters,” since I don’t think any “men” have any superpowers, let alone overpowered omnipotence on Squirrelface’s level. And in any event, no they don’t. Movies with invincible male leads who are never in dramatic peril (such as most Steven Segal movies, where he never once gets hit) are as shitty and uninteresting as any Mary Sue vehicle.
I don’t get why you are calling Daisy Ridley squirrelface all the time. Maybe you are trying to piss off the posse, I don’t know. It’s irrelevant to the argument whether you find her attractive or not, and makes you look like a dick.
TFA is a **** movie and if you want to criticize the filmmakers for being bad at their jobs and making a **** movie, go ahead. By all means I would agree with you. But this seems unnecessary and ridiculous and just detracts from your point.
- Time
- Post link
This thread is like a mobius strip. Or that episode of TNG where the Enterprise blows up over and over again. 😉
Where were you in '77?
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
NeverarGreat said:
She could easily have been established as Luke’s daughter or Chosen by the Force and these problems would have evaporated on the spot.
Rey doesn’t do anything more extraordinary than Luke or Anakin in the Original Trilogy and prequels. She may turn out to be the daughter of a powerful Force user, but why does she even need to be propped up like that? She doesn’t. Ever think that maybe she is the most powerful Force user we have ever seen? She is Rey and she is a girl and is awesome. Deal with it.
- Time
- Post link
Rey is a ray of light. A glimmer of hope.
- Time
- Post link
She is Rey and she is a girl and is awesome. Deal with it.
Look, criticizing the character is perfectly fine! Just because she’s a woman shouldn’t put her above reproach. I don’t recall any of these criticisms being made against Leia, and she wasn’t exactly your everyday damsel in distress.
- Time
- Post link
She is Rey and she is a girl and is awesome. Deal with it.
Look, criticizing the character is perfectly fine! Just because she’s a woman shouldn’t put her above reproach. I don’t recall any of these criticisms being made against Leia, and she wasn’t exactly your everyday damsel in distress.
Leia was a superb heroine, plucky, courageous, charismatic and sharp-witted, and she averted many negative females-in-fantasy tropes, but the Imagineers at Disney realize that even though Leia should have been a ready-made role model, girls just really didn’t give a shit.
Cuz know what? Girls don’t give a shit about Star Wars.
So the Imaginariat went to the lab and created a purified formula of excess overpowered-ness, in hopes that if she’s outright omnipotent, girls will finally become interested in a role model in the Star Wars universe.
I guess we’ll see if that agenda worked, but it sure resulted in a forgettable, entirely unremarkable movie.
- Time
- Post link
Girls have always been interested in Star Wars. Maybe they’re not wasting their time on a stupid forum or spending all their money on Mondo posters, but that doesn’t mean they don’t give a shit.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
Girls have always been interested in Star Wars. Maybe they’re not wasting their time on a stupid forum or spending all their money on Mondo posters, but that doesn’t mean they don’t give a shit.
AFAIC: Not Getting Sithlord Cosplay Permanent Life-Debilitating Face Tattoo = Not Giving a Shit
- Time
- Post link
This thread is like a mobius strip. Or that episode of TNG where the Enterprise blows up over and over again. 😉
You make it sound too high brow
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
She is Rey and she is a girl and is awesome. Deal with it.
Look, criticizing the character is perfectly fine! Just because she’s a woman shouldn’t put her above reproach. I don’t recall any of these criticisms being made against Leia, and she wasn’t exactly your everyday damsel in distress.
Leia was a superb heroine, plucky, courageous, charismatic and sharp-witted, and she averted many negative females-in-fantasy tropes, but the Imagineers at Disney realize that even though Leia should have been a ready-made role model, girls just really didn’t give a shit.
Cuz know what? Girls don’t give a shit about Star Wars.
So the Imaginariat went to the lab and created a purified formula of excess overpowered-ness, in hopes that if she’s outright omnipotent, girls will finally become interested in a role model in the Star Wars universe.
I guess we’ll see if that agenda worked, but it sure resulted in a forgettable, entirely unremarkable movie.
I doubt Kenner ever lost money cranking out Leia figures, and there were plenty of Leia cosplayers at the 10th Anniversary Con. I know because I was there.
Where were you in '77?
- Time
- Post link
SilverWook said:
I doubt Kenner ever lost money cranking out Leia figures, and there were plenty of Leia cosplayers at the 10th Anniversary Con. I know because I was there.
I saw lots of Leia, and lots of Rey too, and a whole lot Hera Syndulla. I saw a lot of girls dressed as Han Solo too, and that was cool.
- Time
- Post link
People were dressed as Rey at the 10th Anniversary con? I have many doubts.
- Time
- Post link
Who said that?
- Time
- Post link
Who said that?
Rodneyfaile said it. He said he “saw lots of Rey” while replying to SW’s statement. Without specifying the location, grammatically the location is taken from context of SW’s statement.
真実
- Time
- Post link
People were dressed as Rey at the 10th Anniversary con? I have many doubts.
Well, I think there was a DeLorean parked outside the hotel. 😃
Where were you in '77?
- Time
- Post link
Sorry, I was referring to the Star Wars Celebration in Orlando a few weeks ago.
- Time
- (Edited)
- Post link
grammatically
Hahahaha.
- Time
- Post link
grammatically
Hahahaha.
Laughing at the lesson instead of learning. That is why you keep making these mistakes.
真実
- Time
- Post link
The mistake I made is forgetting for a brief moment that you are not worth responding to.