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Rogue One * Spoilers * Thread — Page 82

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MalàStrana said:

  • “Star Wars fans only want one thing: Vader”
  • “I will not condone a course of pointless fan films that will lead us to more nostalgia madness !”

This just goes to show how diverse the Star Wars fandom is and how impossible it is to satisfy everybody.

I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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On both levels…Alderaan is not the most pleasant fellow but there’s no reason Bobo can’t just ignore him.

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Mavimao said:

Alderaan said:

Oh don’t mind me Mavimao, I’m only here for a day or two venting my frustration at watching another Star Wars film that disappointed me. I don’t begrudge anyone else a different opinion. Pretty soon I will go back to occasionally popping in only to check up on restorations of the OOT.

I guess I don’t understand what you expected. For years this was built up as “how the rebels stole the death star plans” and you complain that it’s a film about…people stealing plans to the death star.

I didn’t expect anything, but I was hoping to be surprised and see a good movie. Maybe something that was enjoyable, but also skillfully made in all areas: great script with characters I can really get behind, sharp dialogue, beautiful visuals, exhilarating “wow” special effects, a memorable score, etc.

But I don’t want to criticize Rogue One too much. I can’t praise it by saying it’s the best Star Wars film since 1983, but I can say it’s the least bad, if that makes sense.

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Mavimao said:

MalàStrana said:

  • “Star Wars fans only want one thing: Vader”
  • “I will not condone a course of pointless fan films that will lead us to more nostalgia madness !”

This just goes to show how diverse the Star Wars fandom is and how impossible it is to satisfy everybody.

I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

They’d be calling Luke a Mary Sue, they’d say the plot holes and plot contrivances ruined and there would certainly be someone who would say that Leia being somewhat competent and having a stand up attitude was feminist propaganda. This is of course under the assumption that the PT came out first and was revered like the OT is in real life.

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Mavimao said:
I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

Why ?

Were The Matrix, Avatar or Lord of the rings crucified by today’s culture ?

(and basically today’s culture has been partially defined by Star Wars so I don’t get your point)

(I don’t even understand the relevance here…)

You’re just repeating dumb statement which don’t mean anything trying to appear cool (you’ve failed by the way) or you really believe that ?

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MalàStrana said:

Mavimao said:
I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

Why ?

Were The Matrix, Avatar or Lord of the rings crucified by today’s culture ?

(and basically today’s culture has been partially defined by Star Wars so I don’t get your point)

(I don’t even understand the relevance here…)

You’re just repeating dumb statement which don’t mean anything trying to appear cool (you’ve failed by the way) or you really believe that ?

I know a lot of people who aren’t really Star Wars fans try to watch the first film and find it really boring and tacky. I don’t necessarily agree but there you go.

PS: I’ve got a PHD in Cowabunga. U can’t touch this.

What’s the internal temperature of a TaunTaun? Luke warm.

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There is a point about ANH not being enjoyed as much by today’s culture - but these wouldn’t be the people posting here - but people who just see it once or twice and don’t as much. Lets not forget the real audience isn’t actually us - we are a very select (and somewhat extreme) part of the fanbase.

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Mavimao said:

MalàStrana said:

Mavimao said:
I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

Why ?

Were The Matrix, Avatar or Lord of the rings crucified by today’s culture ?

(and basically today’s culture has been partially defined by Star Wars so I don’t get your point)

(I don’t even understand the relevance here…)

You’re just repeating dumb statement which don’t mean anything trying to appear cool (you’ve failed by the way) or you really believe that ?

I know a lot of people who aren’t really Star Wars fans try to watch the first film and find it really boring and tacky. I don’t necessarily agree but there you go.

PS: I’ve got a PHD in Cowabunga. U can’t touch this.

The issue is that we’re living in a post-Star Wars world now. If 1977’s Star Wars was released today alongside a movie like Captain America: Civil War I can understand people being bored by it. But it’s largely because of Star Wars that we have the exciting effects-driven films we have today.

Compared to modern sci-fantasy movies, Star Wars might be boring, but if we were in a hypothetical world where the film industry today was still the same as it was in 1976 and Star Wars came out, I think the effect would largely be the same.

But it’s impossible to speculate with any accuracy.

Keep Circulating the Tapes.

END OF LINE

(It hasn’t happened yet)

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Are you glad Rogue one did not feature a prominent sub-plot about Cyborgs? Or experimental Cyborg Surgery?

This is a serious question as I think this was a reason for the some of the Jedha plot being altered or being changed. But It’s tricky to work this stuff out.

It would also be to do with Saw’s transformation and that the Death Troopers are Cyborgs (Advanced ones mind) but also that Vader was also fitted that mold too. But there were people who were being cyborgified on Jedha during the conflict there.

Remember the Alien without a head.

There is a woman also on a food stool that would have had like a Hardrive stuck above her nose without a forehead.

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I never realised that was a subplot! Maybe one ingredient too many if it were there.

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MalàStrana said:

Mavimao said:
I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

Why ?

Were The Matrix, Avatar or Lord of the rings crucified by today’s culture ?

You obviously weren’t paying attention when Avatar came out.

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Lord Haseo said:

Mavimao said:

MalàStrana said:

  • “Star Wars fans only want one thing: Vader”
  • “I will not condone a course of pointless fan films that will lead us to more nostalgia madness !”

This just goes to show how diverse the Star Wars fandom is and how impossible it is to satisfy everybody.

I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

They’d be calling Luke a Mary Sue

No, because Luke is a dude, and we only make that complaint about chicks.

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Well the new movies are with the EU in mind so I’m pretty sure it was never intended to be an actual sub-plot.

(For all we know the story group may have added it all once it was decided to give Dr. Evazan a cameo.)

Star Wars is Surrealism, not Science Fiction (essay)
Original Trilogy Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Beyond the OT Documentaries/Making-Ofs (YouTube, Vimeo, etc. finds)
Amazon link to my novel; Dawn of the Karabu.

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ben_danger said:

I never realised that was a subplot! Maybe one ingredient too many if it were there.

I think it was probably fairly subtle but it would have been a theme of Technology vs Religion in a warzone on Jedha.

Or at least that is what it seems like.

Once you leave Jedha that theme would only carry over with Vader from that point I guess.

Saw would be the paranoid conflicted half cyborg. But other abominations on the streets who were in the wrong place at the wrong time but were saved with surgery.

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I don’t know about all of the Mary Sue talk, but it sure felt like Luke earned everything he achieved in Star Wars, whereas Rey got the old Harry Potter liquid luck treatment at every turn.

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SilverWook said:

Bobo Jameson said:

Mavimao said:

Alderaan said:

Oh don’t mind me Mavimao, I’m only here for a day or two venting my frustration at watching another Star Wars film that disappointed me. I don’t begrudge anyone else a different opinion. Pretty soon I will go back to occasionally popping in only to check up on restorations of the OOT.

I guess I don’t understand what you expected. For years this was built up as “how the rebels stole the death star plans” and you complain that it’s a film about…people stealing plans to the death star.

I don’t think it’s perfect, but it’s perfectly watchable.

I’m sure there were people disappointed when they went to see Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samourai. “Hey I thought there was going to be some major ass kicking, but it’s just shots of a guy driving at night and mending his garden!”

Alderaan is a dick and it got what it deserved a long, long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. 😉

Knock it off.

That was obviously a fun little jab at a guy who’s a bit of a jerk. God almighty you pansies can’t take a little ribbing can ya?

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Bobo Jameson said:
That was obviously a fun little jab at a guy who’s a bit of a jerk. God almighty you pansies can’t take a little ribbing can ya?

Consider yourself warned.

Forum Moderator
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ZkinandBonez said:

Well the new movies are with the EU in mind so I’m pretty sure it was never intended to be an actual sub-plot.

(For all we know the story group may have added it all once it was decided to give Dr. Evazan a cameo.)

There was a bounty hunter (triangle face) tracking Dr.Evanzan and Walrus what ever his name is. So I think although it feels like Fan service without any real reason it’s likely that Jyn bumps in to him just as triangle face is going to shoot them then the tank battle happens so they get away. as Triangle face is behind the tank as it rolls past and cut off from pursuing.

So it’s cut down quite a bit, and does not really flesh out Triangle Face tracking the 2 criminals which would come prior to Jyn bumping into him.

It’s a guess but it’s very likely more to that sequence.

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MalàStrana said:

Mavimao said:
I forget who said it, but if ANH was released today, it would be crucified by today’s culture.

Why ?

Were The Matrix, Avatar or Lord of the rings crucified by today’s culture ?

(and basically today’s culture has been partially defined by Star Wars so I don’t get your point)

(I don’t even understand the relevance here…)

You’re just repeating dumb statement which don’t mean anything trying to appear cool (you’ve failed by the way) or you really believe that ?

I’d certainly crucify Avatar. Either Avatar movie actually.

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I’ve seen it twice now so I’ve been able to fully embrace the film and make up my mind on what I’ve seen. Not sure if this is the right page to leave a review but I couldn’t find an official review post so here it goes:

The Actual Narrative:

After my first viewing, I left the theater quite disappointed, I actually fell asleep during the first act of the movie which was the first bad sign, I was extremely let down by Saw Gerrara’s character who I had low hopes for anyway but in the final cut of the film I could tell that he had been butchered by a poor performance, being heavily edited down, heavily re-written, and almost 100% re-shot. Saw Gerrara was easily the #1 weak point in the film yet the first hour almost completely revolved around him, his character was obviously supposed to play a major role in the film and most likely be in several flashback sequences where you get to know his relationship with Jynn and the role that he played in developing her as an independent and “rogue” individual. Jynn’s backstory with Saw should have been left in the movie just to develop both of the characters and show how many hardships Jynn went through growing up because of Saw’s extremist beliefs. It’s also worth noting that the most poorly shot parts of the film were the re-shot Saw Gerrara scenes which didn’t help at all. Having almost 100% of the dialogue during the first act revolve around Saw Gerrara was a bad move for a character that ended up being re-shot and chopped out, how do the filmmakers expect us to be involved in the story and the characters if they aren’t?

As for the second act, it also needs some work but was definitely better than the first but still needs some improvement, we see the protagonists all banded together and it really starts to feel exciting, we see the death of Saw which makes no sense, but more on that later. We also see the death of Jynn’s father which is kind of underwhelming but it works. But most importantly, we get some nice action scenes and cool special effects.

The third act was awesome, the space battles IMO were the best since ESB’s asteroid chase. The ground battles indoor fights were really well shot and intense! Killing every character was a nice ballsy move which I wasn’t expecting and the main story had a nice resolution. None of the climax felt fake or convenient, all of the action and emotional scenes were well executed save for a few confusing shots.

Fan Service:

I’m going to have to say I wish there wasn’t any of the ham-fisted fan-service in there even though some of it was pretty cool and/or well done, I don’t think that it was the director’s original vision.

Having Cornelius Evazan’s (who looked fucking awful) and Ponda Baba’s cameo in there hurt my soul, I don’t know who thought that was a good idea but I was very unpleased by their appearance and so was everyone in the theater both times.

C3PO’s and R2D2’s cameo was so jarring and unfunny, his line “they never tell me anything” felt like it was written by a child and was unfunny even for the PT’s standards. It was also a pathetically dumb decision to put their cameo right in the middle of a dramatic action scene, this got a few reactions from the audience but they weren’t necessarily good reactions, more of an “oh?” was echoed rather than an applause.

Bail Organa was a nice touch but was overall disappointing. He had absolutely no effect on the final film and his only dialogue was both a reference to Obi-Wan and Leia so he completely felt the same as in ROTS where he just says all the fan-servicey things at the end. I also felt that both times he had no presence in the room during the meetings, it felt like he might’ve been added in after reshoots maybe? In a few of the wide shots of the rebel base he was nowhere to be seen, he was only in the close-ups. I wish they had given him a scene to shine in, maybe give him a speech or a few inspiring lines like the final cutscene from the force unleashed.

CGI Tarkin and CGI Leia were meh. I think Tarkin should’ve looked better because they nailed his facial structure and texture but his mannerisms were off and his facial muscles moved more than Peter Cushing’s did, in ANH, he sits completely still and only moves his mouth very sternly but keeps the rest of his face locked in place, it makes Tarkin a very harsh and intimidating authority which I don’t think the actor who performed the character was able to capture. Leia, on the other hand looked spot on until she changed her facial expression and then she was distractingly off-putting as well. Both of the characters’ voices, however, were spot-on.

The other subtle easter eggs were a nice touch, I noticed the blue milk and other little things which didn’t bother me at all. The references to “hope” were pretty on-the-nose though.

Darth Vader was debatably not needed in the film at all. Both of his scenes were good, I liked hearing James Earl Jones’ voice again and I loved that they replicated the original suit with the red lenses and everything. I feel like Darth Vader was in there so little for one of two reasons: one is that Gareth Edwards really wanted a lot of Darth Vader but Disney and the Producers pushed to have him cut down or that Gareth Edwards wanted little to no Darth Vader but Disney and the Producers pushed to have him added into the film to please mass audiences. Either way, I was satisfied with what we got but I’d like to see if there’s any more footage of him for this movie out there.

Nitpicks:

Why didn’t Darth Vader get sucked into space when he was standing in the open airlock? He might’ve been protected by the suit but he would’ve at least been pulled or floated out. Also, why would K2SO be the one to say “I have a bad feeling about this”? I’m not even going to explain why that was dumb.

Ideas to improve the film:

  • Cut Cassian’s first scene as well as all parts where he’s being questionably evil. He has no ark yet somehow goes from good to bad, it would be better to keep him good from the start or flesh out his character development.

  • Add in all of Saw Gerrara’s lost footage, we needed that badly

  • Add more flashbacks of Jynn’s father so that we feel more involved in that relationship and refer to “stardust” more often than once at the very beginning

  • Push the reveal of the death star to later in the film. During the trailers we hear dialogue of a “weapon’s test” but that doesn’t show up in the film. It would be cool to refer to a big weapon being built but then reveal it fully built and have an emotional impact to the words “death star” halfway through. How I would do this is when Jynn goes to see Saw, they’re immediately ambushed by the empire because they accidentally led spies to Saw’s base so Saw is injured and is unable to give Jynn any information so he gives her the location of her father right before he dies. When Jynn eventually finds her dying father, he reveals everything to her before dying himself, this would add much more depth to the whole plot and explain Saw’s death way better than him deciding to stay in his base for no reason.

Other Points:

The score had me worried knowing that they fired their original composer a month before the film’s release but the final soundtrack was actually pretty damn good, it was very heavy-handed but dare I say it topped TFA’s and AOTC’s. Overall the movie was enjoyable but needed to be edited better and tampered with less, I’d love to see the original shooting script to see exactly what they changed but overall I think the movie was still pretty good.

This film gets a 7.5/10 from me

Prequel Fan-Edit thread: http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Yet-another-series-of-prequel-edits/id/17329

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I’d have like the R2/3PO caneo much more if it was at the end on the Tantive, and without a line from 3PO. It’d fit better.

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Hmm this one is tough for me… I always found the ground troops, pilots and soldiers more interesting then the jedi. I liked the balance in the originals but really looked forward to this one… Because of the promise of a gritty more routed war movie.

At the end I enjoyed the movie… But was also quite disappointed.

The first act gave me nothing it seemed pointless and to crowded with unimportant details that never paid off… I would really like to see the version before the reshoots because for me it seemed like a big patchwork that never fitted together as intended.

Same for the characters I liked jyn… But that pilot for example? It always seemed as if his story arc is missing.

And no I don’t need backstory for everything… But often it seemed as if there was backstory planned and filmed and than cut out.

I have hoped they would be more bold in their creative decisions… and I know it is nitpicking… But small stuff like that ugly titelcard that looked like the intro of an untalented star wars YouTube channel… Why not using something completely original?

Same for the soundtrack…

I really loved the space battle…
I really loved the more depressing gritty tone… But it seemed unstructured in most groundbattle scenes.

I totally disliked those small cameos, especially r2 and 3po. That’s one of the point red letter media got right in their review.

It was fun to watch, it was more my kind of star wars the most of the jedi focused stuff out there… But it was still played to save for my liking and it seemed to unstructured.

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Hmm maybe… I just wished they would have gone further away in a different direction.

I am more a graphics and visuals guy than a sound guy, but for me it seemed totally as if they borrowed quite a lot of him 😉

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To jump back a couple pages and respond to Haseo RE: Vader, to which I would have responded earlier had I not had an exam and subsequently gone out for drinks:

Yes, the PT was terrible, and yes, TFA doesn’t count as a Vader movie, but the fact remains that as far as canon material goes, Star Wars cinema has been insanely Vader-centric this entire time. Now, I’m certainly not one to cry foul about the heavy nostalgia in these Disney films; I adored TFA and I thought R1 was rad as hell. but at this point I’m pretty much sated as far as the obvious stuff goes. Vader wrecking shit at the end of R1 was all I needed for him. I honestly can’t conceive of a Jedi purge story that would be at all vital or necessary. Yeah, the fact that ROTS did a poor job with it was disappointing, but the reality is that Obi-Wan’s summary of it in ANH was plenty to get the point across. To give it a whole movie would be pure fan service, with no narrative value at all. I don’t want to waste an entire movie on a thing about the single most familiar character going through the motions of a story we’ve known the broad strokes of for decades. I’d much rather go back to the KOTOR era, or do an Indy-inspired Dr. Aphra flick where she unearths something that ties into Snoke’s deal, or story about young Lor San Tekka that fills gives some backstory to the Church of the Force and fills in the gaps about his relationship with Luke. Vader hunting down the Jedi just sounds like a dead end to me.