ZkinandBonez

I think we just have to get used to the fact that movie-franchises are made differently now. They are part of larger continuities, and SW in particular now has a commitment to a larger expanded universe. Lucas may not have cared (though even the PT had EU connections), now however, the EU and the movies are strongly connected. RO tried a milder version of it with Saw, and now Solo has fully committed to it. I think Lucasfilm knows that they can’t do exactly what the MCU does (e.g. making three or so movies a year), so they’ve committed to EU connections instead.

And if this whole Maul thing bugs too many people they can always “fix” it by making him a larger part of a future anthology films. Yes there’s no official plans for it right now, but they’ve opened that door now. I don’t see this becoming a huge problem, especially with younger audiences (it’s easy to forget that the post PT generation(s) actually likes Maul), but if it does they can still “salvage” it in many different ways. Like Silverwook said; Thanos wasn’t know by everyone watching the Avengers (or GOTG, etc.), yet it eventually paid off and those who hadn’t read the comics accepted it. Lucasfilm can still do a similar thing.

I just came across this Star Wars Weekly B&W pin-up by Tony DeZuniga and just had to share it here.

It reminds me a lot of the cover of SW #2, only here Han & Chewie is involved in the fight. Plus, all the aliens are completely original creations. (Source)

(I know this is quite a stretch, but some of these aliens, especially the guy with the knife at the bottom right corner, reminds me a lot of the wacky Hungarian poster for ANH.)

I’m a big fan of the original Marvel Star Wars comics, specifically the first few years when they were written by Archie Goodwin and drawn by Carmine Infantino. (Very specifically #11-37)

One of the many things that I like about Goodwin’s writing, and 70’s comics in general really, is that they had such a Saturday-Morning-esque cartoon feel to them. And Infantino’s art-style would have lent itself really well to animation as well.

So, just for fun I decided to imagine what would have happened if these comics actually had been a cartoon back in the day, and decided to make a set of VHS covers for them.

I took the 90’s VHS cover for the movie version of several Droids episodes, copied the style, and made three VHS covers. I also took inspiration from how the Scandinavian version of the Marvel comics often combined 5-6 issue story-lines into albums, so I made one VHS for “waterworld” (#11-15), “The Wheel” (#18-23) and a combination of “Siege at Yavin” (#25-26) and the “Omega Frost” (#31-34). I copied as much of the Droid VHS blurbs as possible and tried to fill in the blanks with a somewhat over-the-top 90’s style of marketing.

(I got a little lazy with the front art, but it’s the kind of thing that might have been done for a real VHS set. Plus, finding cover art from this period with a clean background isn’t easy.)

screams in the void said:

yeah , that would be cool to have a proper cartoon , I think a motion comic of the best arcs would be doable though , there are a lot of ongoing projects on youtube that use even the current comics such as here…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W65-4VTOcl0 as long as it is stated clearly as an adaptation and fan project not for profit , I think it would fly . It has always been a little dream of mine to have these stories come to life in some capacity . Any one else watching this thread have the time or inclination to take this on ?

True. And if anyone would actually bother to make motion-comics out of it, that would be pretty neat. I might even make an exception and give it a look.

I still think a cartoon is a more fun idea, but, as you suggested, it’s unfortunately too crazy to be practical.

SilverWook said:

Cool VHS cover! And the Nelvana personnel in the credits is a nice touch.

Truth be told, I found it difficult to photoshop the names so I just kept the old ones. But it did end up working out really nicely. I managed to copy/paste several letters from the other names to add Archie Goodwin to the list though.

SilverWook said:

With Warner cranking out all those direct to video DC movies, you’d think Disney would get an idea to do some animated Star Wars films.

Yeah, hopefully Lucasfilm will one day, when the hype over the new movies and canon has died down a bit, make some proper animated films about books and comics like Shadows of the Empire or the Thrawn trilogy similarly to how, as you mention, Warner keeps adaption DC stories like Batman: Year One into direct to video animated features. Unfortunately, I don’t think the old Marvel stories is likely to happen. Might be a bit too “obscure” to warrant that kind of financial commitment.

screams in the void said:

Very cool ! I have seen those Droids vhs tapes that you mentioned and I recognize the style . I think it would be an awesome project to get a group of people together , record voices and make an animated motion comic of the original series from beginning to end .Also , have you shared these covers in the fan art section of this forum ? if not , I think you definitely should.

Even as a motion-comic that would be quite an ambitious project. (Not really my kind of thing either.) Plus, making all the comics into free videos might might not sit too well with Marvel.

However, very hypothetically speaking, if I had a million dollars I’d love make a proper cartoon out the series. Well, as an aspiring live-action filmmaker I’d probably make a proper film if I had that kind of money, but if I had two I’d definitely do both.

And no, I haven’t shared them on the fan art section. I guess I should. EDIT: I now have.

screams in the void said:

And , ZkinandBones , that Doomorld dvd cover is pure awesome sauce ! I want to see it in animated form or at least a motion comic now !

Thanks.
Like I mentioned, I think the Infantino style really lends itself to animation, and Goodwin’s stories does have a TV-series feel to it.

I figured, if they had been a cartoon, what would a VHS look of them look like? So I took the 90’s VHS cover for the movie version of several Droids episodes, copied the style, and made a couple of Marvel SW VHS covers just for fun.

I also took inspiration from how the Scandinavian comics combined 5-6 issue story-lines into albums, so I made one for “waterworld”, “The Wheel” and a combination of “Siege at Yavin” and the “Omega Frost”.

“Doomworld”

“Deathgame”

“Omega Frost”

(I got a little lazy with the front art, but it’s the kind of thing that might have been done for a real VHS set.)

screams in the void said:

ZkinandBonez said:

A while back I found these six pages from an old article about the “Goodwin-years” of Marvel Star Wars. I don’t know what magazine this is from, but I made them into a PDF and figured I’d share it here.

‘Star Wars Under Archie Goodwin’ by Kurt Busiek

Cool article , thank you for sharing . I saw Archie Goodwin signing and talking to fans about this series at the Chicago Comic Con back in early 1995 and he was one hell of a nice guy. I think he had a great handle on the characters , I have to disagree with part of this article though as I thought his first story arc on the water world felt like it could have been an awesome Star Wars movie and it had the sense of grand scale and pacing that are a Star Wars hallmark.

I agree. “Waterworld” is a pretty fun story, and I think it would have made a fun animated movie (a what-if idea I’ve already played with for fun), though back in back in 1978 it was definitely a, for the lack of a better word, oddity. I think nowadays it’s more common to gravitate towards SW stories without the Empire, but back then it probably felt kinda weird. In one of the letters columns someone complained about the lack of Imperials prior to the Siege at Yavin story-line. I guess back then when there was just one movie (or two by the time of the article) fans really just wanted simple Rebellion vs Empire stories like in the movie(s). Nowadays that idea can to some fans border on the mundane. I personally think “The Wheel” story-line is the most interesting and well-balance story. It’s a perfect blend of the new ideas from “waterworld” and the more movie-like ideas of fighting the Empire.

screams in the void said:

And while I like that Infantino had a quirky style that got the essence of the characters in interpretation , I am partial to Walter Simonson or Ron Frenz with Tom Palmer . Goodwin did write some of the best stories though and David Michellinie wrote the penultimate arc between issues 55 and 63 with the Shira Brie /Pariah story arc.

Though I’ve enjoyed pretty much all of the original Marvel SW stories, both plot and art, I’ve personally always gravitated towards the more “cartoonish” art style of Infantino. It just works for me. The Goodwin/Infantino stories almost feel like watching a SW cartoon in comic form. I’m a big fan of Simonson’s work (Thor and Ragnarök especially), but I unfortunately think Tom Palmer’s inking kind of watered down Simonson’s unique style beyond recognition. It’s still good, but it’s not pure-Simonson. It almost looks Al Williamson-esque. If Simonson had been able to ink his own work, like he did on some of the covers, I probably would have loved these stories a lot more. The post-Goodwin stories were great as well, but I always felt that Goodwin was a bit more adventurous and straight-forward. The post-ESB story-lines could get a little complicated at times (for me at least). It really just boils down to preference.

screams in the void said:

One of the things I like most about Goodwin though , and he mentioned this himself in the letters column of one of the issues he wrote, was that he realized Darth Vader was too good a villian to be over used and was more effective when used sparingly so he had more of an impact .This is one thing Current Marvel does not get . While some of it has been ok in my opinion , having a Darth Vader series misses the point.

Depends on which of the two Vader series you’re talking about. The new one has been great in my opinion, but that really hinges on what Darth Vader has become in the post-PT era. Back in the original Marvel years he was through-and-through a villain. And a villain like Vader had to be used sparingly so as to not make him into a goofy Skeletor-type that was constantly out-witted by the good guys.

The new Vader however, is more of a tragic and sympathetic character. Sure, that was present in the 80’s as well, but it’s much more in focus now. And although I’m hardly a great admirer of ROTS, I’ve really enjoyed the new Vader series because it picks up immediately after ep. III. I think it’s fascinating to read a series where you’re rooting for the gradually corruption of a previously good(-ish) person.

But that’s what’s so fascinating to me about comparing the old and the new Marvel series, they have such vastly different starting points. The source material is completely different, despite sharing a few of the same films.

In the end though, the originals, both film and comics, have a simplicity to them that in my opinion just can’t be beat.

screams in the void said:

And back to the article , yeah ,Michellinie’s Tarkin/Death Star story was a bit of a rehash , but it did anticipate the events of ROTJ and the same could be said of TFA. I also enjoyed a lot of the stories written by Jo Duffy with both Ron Frenz and Cynthia Martin prior to them getting their hands tied and the series getting a little wonky the last few issues .

The Tarkin-weapon story was one of the Marvel SW stories I actually owned and read as a kid (buying old comics was both cheaper and more fun than the new ones), and I never had a problem with it. It was a creative solution, and a fair bit more inventive than just building another DS. My only complaint is that they could have spent more time with it. They blow it up a tad too quick and easy. However the “kill Darth Vader” conspiracy was a pretty interesting sub-plot.

I think Duffy’s work should be commended regardless of what one might think about the stories themselves. That she managed to keep SW alive for several years after ROTJ was no small responsibility. (And I guess it was as good a time as any to experiment.) As a side note, I really like her “Silent Drifting” story. Any PT-era story made before the actual prequels, will always be greatly fascinating to me.

It actually took me a few seconds too see what was different about that poster.

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

They could’ve had Looook Skywalker for all I care.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luuuke_Skywalker

A while back I found these six pages from an old article about the “Goodwin-years” of Marvel Star Wars. I don’t know what magazine this is from, but I made them into a PDF and figured I’d share it here.

‘Star Wars Under Archie Goodwin’ by Kurt Busiek

LexX said:

DuracellEnergizer said:

I hate the name “Qi’ra”.

They should’ve spelled it Kira. Wasn’t Kira supposed to be Luke’s original sister or something at some point. Anyways, I think Kira is a pretty name. Qi’ra is just unnecessary.

I think Kira was Lucas’ name for the character that eventually turned into Rey.

DominicCobb said:

ZkinandBonez said:

DominicCobb said:

The story group doesn’t really force things in, there’ve been no examples of that that I can think of. They’re there for consultation and brainstorming.

I just meant that they might suggest places and characters during the writing process. It’s not uncommon for screenwriters to temporarily creste a place or character without a name or any specific details. With the story group I’d imagine they help fill these gaps. Plus, I’m sure the Kasdan’s simply asked them for help several times.

My guess would be that Saw Gerrera in RO was originally just an unnamed “terrorist” and that at some point someone at the story group figured he resembled Saw From Clone Wars and suggested they use that name.

They don’t force anything, but they probably have a pretty large(-ish) influence on the stories.

Yeah definitely, that all sounds right. I just remember I think I saw someone here say that they forced Maul into this, which seems quite off base.

Yeah I’ve heard that claim tossed around as well, and it was definetely Jon Kasdan’s decision.

I’m just speculating on how much the story group might have influenced that, and many other, ideas.

DominicCobb said:

The story group doesn’t really force things in, there’ve been no examples of that that I can think of. They’re there for consultation and brainstorming.

I just meant that they might suggest places and characters during the writing process. It’s not uncommon for screenwriters to temporarily creste a place or character without a name or any specific details. With the story group I’d imagine they help fill these gaps. Plus, I’m sure the Kasdan’s simply asked them for help several times.

My guess would be that Saw Gerrera in RO was originally just an unnamed “terrorist” and that at some point someone at the story group figured he resembled Saw From Clone Wars and suggested they use that name.

They don’t force anything, but they probably have a pretty large(-ish) influence on the stories.

This hardly proves anything, but it’s interesting, and seems like something Abrams might want to do for IX;

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/05/billy-dee-williams-is-getting-into-shape-with-a-workout-and-new-diet.html

Tobar said:

ZkinandBonez said:

(Did anyone else get the impression that the EU stuff might be Jon Kasdan’s work?)

And yeah, I think all the EU stuff was Jon mixed with some consultation with the Story Group.

Well, apparently the Darh Maul cameo was in fact Jon Kasdan’s idea;

https://www.starwarsnewsnet.com/2018/05/lawrence-and-jon-kasdan-reveal-how-they-came-up-with-the-surprising-cameo-in-solo-a-star-wars-story.html

No direct mention of the story-group getting involved though, but that hardly proves that they weren’t involved in one way or another. And Jon Kasdan is described as “a particular champion of Darth Maul”, implying that maybe someone else, most likely the story-group, had tossed around various ideas and suggestions prior to on settling for Maul.

I get the impression that L3 is going to be a mini-TLJ of sorts, where most people either love her or hate her.

Just for the record, I thought she was ok, though she did borderline on annoying. I liked her droid-revolution, and her introduction was fun, but in the in-between Falcon scene(s) she just got too weird and nagging for my taste. I guess they wanted to make good use of the character before she got killed off, whereas K2 got to be spread out over the whole movie so his odd personality didn’t feel as over-the-top.

On a side note, I’m glad she was done as a mostly practical effect. K2 look good, but L3 had more of a “physical presence” in my opinion.

Tobar said:

ZkinandBonez said:

And since Han and Fett have knew each other prior to ANH, they might bring back Alden Ehrenreich as well.

I keep hearing fans say this and state it as a matter of fact. That there’s some great rivalry between the two or whatever. But there’s no evidence of that at all in either ESB or ROTJ. Just going off the films alone it would seem Boba Fett was just doing the job he was hired to. Heck, and while it’s canonicity is questionable, his very first appearance clearly depicts Han as having no idea who Boba Fett is.

Well, the OT never specifically states how Han got the Falcon either, other than that he “won it” from Lando. Yet certain details of the game has become part of a general consensus of sort. Same goes for the Kessel Run, or how Han saved Chewie from slavery. The OT never gave any details, yet since the 90’s SW fans have just known how these things happened. And from what I’ve gathered the movie didn’t stray too far away from the Legends versions either. Likewise, I don’t thin that the new EU will stray away from the idea that they both knew each other prior to ANH.

(Plus, as much as I love *The Faithful Wookiee" cartoon, it’s canonicity was vague back in the day, and just plain irrelevant nowadays.)

Tobar said:

ZkinandBonez said:

I find it amusing that they mentioned Teräs Käsi, considering how generally negative opinions are about that game(though I guess that might be part of the joke). (Did anyone else get the impression that the EU stuff might be Jon Kasdan’s work?)

Teräs Käsi as a martial art has spread out quite a bit into other projects since its initial introduction. Though it did get a laugh out of me in the theater. And yeah, I think all the EU stuff was Jon mixed with some consultation with the Story Group.

Yeah, I know. I’ve already come across Teräs Käsi is several Legends books I’ve read, I just find it amusing to think that someone unfamiliar with Legends might now google it and end up learning about, maybe even playing, that weird game.

Over-all I enjoyed every obscure EU and Legends easter-egg in this movie.

It would work out really well canonically to have Maul in the Boba Fett film. In the Clone Wars series he built a small criminal empire, ruled Mandalore briefly, then lost it all. The in Rebels, 15-ish years later, he has pretty much nothing and eventually dies a few years prior to ANH. With all of this in mind, there’s a 15 year period where we up until now had no clue what Maul was up to. Now we know he’s the leader of Crimson Dawn, but roughly five years after Solo he’s lost it all again. The Boba Fett films could show us how Maul lost Crimson Dawn. And as for more casual viewers, there could be a brief mention of his survival (skipping the details; Madalore, his brother, Dathomir, etc.) and he could have a “conclusion” of sorts. A defeat which implies that there’s more for him to do (e.g. plot of Rebels), but enough to satisfy people who doesn’t bother with the EU.

Either that, or Lucasfilm simply doesn’t care and just wants everyone to watch everything. I dunno.

lovelikewinter said:

I wonder if Maul will play into the Kenobi spinoff in that Obi-Wan leaves to confront Maul and ends up taking down Crimson Dawn and leaving Maul stranded on Malachor with a live action replay of their final duel for a coda.

If they don’t make a Solo sequel, I think it would make more sense to put Maul, Qi-Ra and Crimson Dawn into the upcoming Boba Fett film. Even Ehrenreich might be in it. I hardly doubt that they have any specific plans for the plot of the Boba Fett film, but they could easily put Crimson Dawn into that movie. That could also give the more casual fans a “proper” explanation as to how Maul is still alive. (It’s also not impossible that the Qi-Ra/Solo sub-plot might be resolved there.)

Does anyone else get the feeling that this film will serve as an introduction/segue to the upcoming Boba Fett / Bounty Hunters movie? Even though I knew Maul was going to show up in advance, I was still surprised at how much of him they revealed. I figured they’d only show him wit his hood on, and that’s it. Fan will recognize him, casual viewers won’t. But no, he pulled out his lightsaber and everything. I find it weird that Lucasfilm will just drop that scene ad just expect peope to google how Maul is alive. Plus, the whole Qi-Ra subplot wasn’t resolved, so I have a feeling that Crimson Dawn might be a big part of the upcoming Boba Fett movie. And since Han and Fett have knew each other prior to ANH, they might bring back Alden Ehrenreich as well.

As for my opinion of the movie itself; I don’t really have much more to add than what’s already been said here. It was quite fun. A few oddities here and there, but it worked just fine. L3 got a bit too close to Jar Jar territory for me, but she never crossed the line and she ended up being a somewhat small character. Ehenreich worked fine for me. I saw more of Ford in him towards the end of the film, which makes sense as he’s more cynical towards the end (e.g more like ANH Han). If she returns I think he’ll be more Ford-like then. And I’m overall impressed by how much depth they added to his characters. I was surprised by just how sympathetic and engaging (to me at least) the Han/Qi-Ra subplot was.

I do think it’s funny how they made L3 the reason for Threepio’s comment in ESB about the Falcon’s computer having a weird personality. And I don’t think I’ve ever seen some many EU references in a movie before. Even the Pykes showed up, and I find it amusing that they mentioned Teräs Käsi, considering how generally negative opinions are about that game(though I guess that might be part of the joke). (Did anyone else get the impression that the EU stuff might be Jon Kasdan’s work?)

SilverWook said:

ZkinandBonez said:

SilverWook said:

Fantastic Films magazine? They did a lot of wild speculating back in the day between sequels. I need to find those and see if anything was on the money.

I can’t say anything about Fantastic Films, but I did find some speculations in the letters page of some of the Marvel SW comics I recently got. Those readers did sometimes have quite on-the-nose ideas about the upcoming movies.

I think it’s especially funny to read the fan reactions to the Han-Leia-Luke love triangle prior to ROTJ. This one fan in 1980 even speculated that Yoda’s reference to “another” was a nod to a possible child of Luke and Leia. On the other hand, one fan unintentionally suggested that they were siblings while complaining about a lack of romantic tension between the two in the comic series.

I lament that those letter columns don’t make it into reprints. Maybe they’d have to track these people down to get permission?

Could be. After all they included the full names and adresses of the people who wrote the letters. Might be iffy to reprint something like that.

It really is a loss though. Too bad they never just blurred/crossed-out the personal info, or something like that, and just included them in the reprints anyway. One of my main motivations for tracking down original copies is so that I can read the letter columns.

I’m just glad that Josh Trank isn’t making the film.

I haven’t seen Logan yet, but judging from what I’ve heard of it, I’m at least somewhat optimistic about the idea of a Boba Fett film now.

Also shouldn’t the title of this thread be changed?

SilverWook said:

Fantastic Films magazine? They did a lot of wild speculating back in the day between sequels. I need to find those and see if anything was on the money.

I can’t say anything about Fantastic Films, but I did find some speculations in the letters page of some of the Marvel SW comics I recently got. Those readers did sometimes have quite on-the-nose ideas about the upcoming movies.

I think it’s especially funny to read the fan reactions to the Han-Leia-Luke love triangle prior to ROTJ. This one fan in 1980 even speculated that Yoda’s reference to “another” was a nod to a possible child of Luke and Leia. On the other hand, one fan unintentionally suggested that they were siblings while complaining about a lack of romantic tension between the two in the comic series.

SilverWook said:

That does bring up a question, aside from the head butting in the prequels getting cut in the UK, have the movies ever had censorship issues elsewhere in the world? I think Luke’s hand getting cut off in ESB was snipped in Norway or something.

I’m Norwegian and I’ve never seen any version of ESB without that shot. Then again, I wasn’t even born in 1980, but I’ve never heard anything about that either.

Apart from The Life of Brian, Norway never banned or censored anything during that period. At least not to my knowledge.

SilverWook said:

I get she’s that bummed out about Anakin, but how about finding the will to live if only for your kids?

Oh, I agree it’s a weird scene and that she should have lived. I’m just saying it’s not technically impossible to die the way she did.

suspiciouscoffee said:

Is she really okay in TPM? I mean, she flirts with an 8 year old. Idk what the age of consent is on Tattooine, but I’ve always thought it was icky.

Does she technically “flirt” with Anakin in TPM? I wouldn’t even consider Anakin’s behaviour as being flirty, just really oddly expressed infatuation. Which makes sense for an eight years old kid.