those are his exact words.
I said “eternal fire” and “torment” are his descriptions of hell. Exact words are different
I guess exact words was inappropriate phrasing on my part, but Jesus Christ does throw around words like that all the time. I’m sure those exact phrases are in certain popular translations, I’d bet my life on it. He obviously condemns people to eternal torment in the afterlife. The reason I’m such a huge fan of the Bible’s words on hell and judgement is because I think it exposes how dark and grim the mythology really is. It makes for a much better narrative within the Bible itself (and I really enjoy the stories and mythology of the Bible), but it makes for a more difficult-to-believe-in religion in the modern age.
I agree with you : the Bible contains maybe the most beautiful texts of antiquity, whatever we believe in it or not.
Showing respect to these texts is also not pretending that Jesus “exactly” said something that he didn’t.
Jesus did “exactly” say that hell was a place of torture, fire, sorrow, and it’s at the very least heavily implied to be eternal.
Again, citation needed.
My citation is the goddamned bible. Jesus Christ talked about Hell more than anyone. In fact, it’s one of the main focuses of the gospels.
Matthew 13:49-50 - So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just, and shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 25:41 - Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
Matthew 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Mark 9:43 - And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
John 3:36 - He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
John 5:29 - And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
Mark 9:48 - Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.
Also, here’s a verse for those that say Christ didn’t damn the religions that don’t revolve around him:
John 14:6 - Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Matthew 13:49-50 - It is the explanation of a parable about the end of the world (and this parable existed before Christ). It doesn’t contain the words “Hell”, “Gehenna” or whatever, and it doesn’t imply that the wicked must suffer forever, just that they’ll be thrown into fire.
Matthew 25:41 : As I already said, Jesus talks about an “everlasting fire”, but never says that people will suffer forever into this fire (but will be punished by a simply immediate destruction). How and where did Jesus say that sinners will suffer forever in this fire ? And it is the end of a parable, so a symbolic story, not a “factual” text.
Matthew 25:46 : same as 25:41 : the fire is unextinguished, but the punishment is simply an immediate destruction. How and where did Jesus say that sinners will suffer forever in this fire ?
Mark 9:43 : same as Matthew 25:41 and 25:46 : the fire is unextinguished, but the punishment is simply an immediate destruction. How and where did Jesus say that sinners will suffer forever in this fire ?
Matthew 10:28 - “fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell”.
- “Hell” is an English translation for “Gehenna” (the word “Hell” is never used by Jesus).
- OK, so soul and body will be destroyed. Isn’t that the exact opposite of “everlasting suffering” ?
John 3:36 : Not a single word about Hell or suffering in this verse.
John 5:29 : Not a single word about Hell or suffering in this verse.
Mark 9:48 - same as Mark 9:43, Matthew 25:41 and 25:46 : the fire is unextinguished, but the punishment is simply an immediate destruction. How and where did Jesus say that sinners will suffer forever in this fire ?
John 14:6 : Not a single word about Hell or suffering in this verse.
On the opposite, there are also many quotations in the New Testament that suggest clearly that Hell does not exist :
John 3:36 - “[sinners] will not see [eternal] life.”. So no Eternal torment if no Eternal life…
Romans 6:7 - “he that is dead is freed from sin.” : idem.
Romans 6:23 - ‘the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.’ : idem.
2 Thessalonians 1:9 - “who shall suffer punishment, even eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might” : idem.
I won’t argue further, I explained my POV as clearly as I can.
I don’t want to debate about the existence of Hell, everyone believes what he wants, as long as he is sincere and respectful (as everybody is here).
I’m just saying that this belief is based on an interpretation of texts that allow several different understandings. It is an abuse, in my opinion, to present this belief as “facts” stated “exactly” or “literally” by Jesus.