ZigZig

Hi Vladimon,

I really don’t get what you see.
Here is a comparison of the same frame : http://www.framecompare.com/image-compare/screenshotcomparison/7KG7GNNX
1 - Althor’s preservation (your copy)
2 - My preservation
3 - the HDTV broadcast (reduced to 480p)
(Please note that I had to slightly stretch Althor’s preservation to fit the right ratio.)

IMHO, there is the same level of details and nuances in the shadows of Qui-Gon’s robe between my preservation and the HDTV broadcast (taking into account that the HDTV broadcast has a huge issue with colors and contrasts), and there is less details and nuances in Althor’s preservation, but more noise. Maybe there is an issue with your monitor.

Since I used a HLD-XO player and an ADV-7842 comb filter (while Althor used a CLD-HF9G [CLD-99] and the comb filter of the Diamond Theater750HD PCI-E capture card), it is just not possible that there are more nuances in his preservation.

Also, IIRC, the Diamond Theater750HD that Althor used has an auto-level issue (which perhaps explains why you see more contrast in its version, when it is in fact less faithful), and its comb filter is less accurate than the ADV-7842.

That said, blessed be Althor for the incredible preservation work he did on all of SW’s laserdiscs, and which today sets the gold standard. It’s just that for TPM, there was a way to do a little better with newer hardware.

Broom Kid said:

I think it might be the settings on whatever you’re viewing the rips with? I’m doing an A-B and the first cap isn’t just noisier, it’s blurrier and darker, too. Granted, it’s Laserdisc - there’s only so much detail to be found, but I don’t think the dynamic range of the image is lacking. The Phantom Menace is a pretty contrasty disc, and I’ve seen it on some monitors/TVs where the shadow detail DOES get lost and crushed. But in this case, if that’s happening, it looks like it’d be more likely to happen in Cap A than in Cap B.

For example, take a look at the difference between the shadows playing across Qui-Gon’s eyes and brow. In Cap A, they’re not only darker, but there are wrinkles under the eyes and at the corner of his mouth that get lost completely in the shadows being cast. In Cap B, you can see, even in the shadows, those wrinkles.

This

Hi Vladimon,

Could you please point exactly where you notice a loss of the shadow detail in the jedi robes ?
I just see more noise in your copy (which seems to be Althor’s one), but no loss of details. But maybe I don’t look at the right place of your screenshot.
Thanks!

Hi ChewieLewis,

It looks very nice, thank you!
Two questions:

1. Will the final rendering be in 4K?
2. In your previous samples, there was more sources (Puggo, 16mm…). That was very funny and I’d love to see them in this new version. Do you plan to use them ?

Depheros said:

Mike’s live on YouTube talking about Legacy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G3W_O-tp0_g

Thank you !

The colors are definitely more accurate than the DVD/HDTV, since they were not yet regraded by Lucasfilm. And the HLD-X0 player that I used is famous to render the colors without any artefact. But it remains a NTSC Laserdisc, so colors are never 100% accurate : Never Twice the Same Colors…

IMHO, they are a little bit too greenish. The SD captures (ORF1 and Scandinavian C+) seem to be more accurate than the Laserdisc: for the few scenes that were not regraded on the DVD, colors are 100% similar to the ORF1 SD capture.

Anyway, IIRC, the master used for the LD was taken from an interpositive, so the colors are close to a theatrical experience, but not 100% the same.

Yes

DrDre said:

Colek said:

Well, then I would want to thank you once more for your work, this tool is really something great 😃

I was wondering if you do have plans on adding batch support to it and multiple threads? Like you could just make list of tests images and references to it and make them export it to LUT automatically. Could leave it overnight to do the work. I can run 8 calculations at once to hit 100% of CPU usage, but setting them up manually takes some time, so threads could be very nice thing too.

I really appriciate your hard work on this, your tool is just fantastic.

Thanks for the compliments! There may be a version with automated processing in the near future. Multithreading is not possible at this point.

Hi DrDre,

Thank you (again) for this amazing software.
Did you eventually make a version with batch support (automated processing)?

Hi yotsuya,

I managed to get a real HD quality for the three missing scenes (arrival on Coruscant, Senate, Night on Theed) and it will be - very soon - available in the “Despecialized” TPM I’m currently finishing.
BTW, there is a little more than those three scenes (ea : the night on Tatooine, digitally shot, was totally regraded for the DVD, with additional and missing frames).

I’m really tempted to do the 97 SE LD (PAL + NTSC, so that a PaNup could achieve a nearly-HD quality). The DC and the Faces are already available in very good quality, is there an interest in recapturing them?

Chase Adams said:

The Eopie sequence is yet another reason why the prequels are secretly brilliant. George employs the use of fundamental filmmaking techniques to immerse viewers into the storytelling experience and most importantly, entertain them. Let me explain, the great filmmaker Alfred Hitchcock defined the difference between mystery in a film and suspense in a film as:

“Mystery is when the spectator knows less than the characters in the movie. Suspense is when the spectator knows more than the characters in the movie."

In the case of the Eopie, there is a distinct sense of mystery surrounding the theatrical cut of the fart. We are calmly watching Jar Jar toiling away at the pod when suddenly, he is bombarded by an overpowering odour. We are surprised by this as we had never suspected such a thing to occur beforehand.

In the extended cut of the fart, we see the Eopie from the very beginning, we watch with suspense as he snorts in agony, waiting for something to happen, we know more than Jar Jar at this point and are the only ones aware of this approaching storm.

I ask you, which is more effective?

THAT is why I love this forum 😃

Hayden Christensen made a truly credible force ghost.

@freetheworld: Plldwn refers to reversing the telecine process.

Hi Plldwn,

Althor1138 preserved almost every LaserDisc related to Star Wars: https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Star-Wars-Laserdisc-Preservations-See-1st-Post-for-Updates/id/15283

IIRC, all his preservations were done by applying an inverse telecine filter (IVTC).

Enjoy.

Don’t hesitate to read the many topics already dedicated to this question, and especially the incredible work done by DrDre.

Hi legacyfilm,

Good luck with your project!

I don’t want to discourage you, but be aware that you’ll face a lot of issues, such as :

• you’ll have to previously define what is “its original state” (there is a lot of topics about this single question on this forum, and there is no easy answer)
• a single LUT probably won’t work, since the 4K was regraded on a scene by scene basis (so you’ll need several LUTs)
• furthermore, it seems that the new 4K version was retouched with Power Windows: some parts of an image have been regraded differently than other parts of the same image (see ChewieLewis’ message about this question)

The best way to watch the original film in their near-to-original colors stands probably in the 4Kxx, the TN1 or the Despecialized Editions.

Danfun128 said:

So… does anybody know where I can find English forced subs and synced Theatrical DTS audio for this, if they exist?

English forced subs will be provided soon (here), thanks to Schorman who captured the original Closed Caption.

I don’t think that the Theatrical DTS audio is synced to the LD (there are some minor timing issues on the LD, such as missing frames, probably due to the original telecine process, so the Theatrical DTS won’t be perfectly synced).

The aim of this preservation was only to provide complete capture of the laserdisc, not to make it syncable with other sources by modifying it, adding frames or audio tracks that didn’t exist on the original discs.

Bobson Dugnutt said:

How does this compare to your PaNup SDTV copy of the Theatrical Cut? I tried comparing them in VLC but I didn’t see anything too different.

It’s difficult to compare, I personnaly should say that this LD preservation is better than the PaNup thing :
Pros : sharpness, colors, sound and average quality are, by far, better in this LD preservation than in the PaNup SDTV copy (which was a merge of 2 poors sources with lot of artefacts compression)
Cons : the usual LD issues are present (ghost artefact in some scenes), the lack of vertical details is visible in some scenes (ex: the horizontal lines on the screen of the Neimoidians in the first scene are not visible here)

Regardless of the differences to it though, seems like this is the definitive version of the Laserdisc. Did you rip this from a sealed copy? Your post implies so.

Actually, I did rip 2 sealed copy and 1 not-sealed copy.
But both sealed copy had major crosstalk issues (mainly in the blue sky around 00:50:00), that the already-opened one didn’t show. So it was difficult to apply a TooT filter.

Hi DavidMDaut,

Sorry to read about this issue.

I tried to play the minute between 00:27:00 and 00:28:00 on VLC, MPC-HC x264 and Microsoft Films: everything seems to be fine.
Could it be an issue with the download? Could you try to download it again? So far, noone else reported similar issue.

It is available (and seeded) on MySpleen right now.

Hi Broom Kid,

Thank you for your interest in this preservation!

Broom Kid said:

very curious to have a look at this!

The screenshots as posted seem stretched to 16x9, however. I’m guessing that’s inaccurate to what the rip itself looks like?

The rip was stretched to 177:160, according to the SMPTE RP 187 which was applied on this LD. With the proper DAR (display aspect ratio) set to 4:3, the picture has exactly the same proportions as the HDTV.

But the screenshots were not made with the proper 4:3 DAR (even if the mkv file is correctly set to this ratio).
So yes, the screenshots are inaccurate to what the rip itself looks like.

Broom Kid said:

IIRC, this laserdisc was also mastered to a lower IRE level, leading to the blacks looking crushed unless brightness/contrast were adjusted on the display itself - something to do with the difference between the Japanese and North American markets? I’m not completely sure on this, and could be wrong (someone please correct me if I am), but I know from personal experience with the disc that it definitely looks a lot more contrasty and crushed than other late-era laserdiscs.

Indeed, this LD uses a Japanese IRE (black to 0 instead of 7.5). Since the capture was made with a Japanese player (HLD-X0) which is conformed to the Japanese IRE, the colors and contrasts are 100% accurate.

Broom Kid said:

Thanks so much for doing this, and posting it. The amount of work is tremendous!

Yes, it took me a couple of months… But I love to do this 😃

Some people, who have just created their account and have 0 public message, contacted me to have the link.

To prevent these files from being sold on eBay, only “real” OT members (who have a real activity on this forum) will, of course, receive the link.

If you don’t have a MySpleen account, the files are available on simple request: please send me a PM.

Presentation

Here is a new preservation of The Phantom Menace Laserdisc. I made it for my own purpose (so that I can use some scenes in my almost finished theatrical HD restoration), but I think it has sufficient quality, sharpness and resolution to let you enjoy it as such!

IMHO, it offers the most comfortable experience of watching a Laserdisc capture, according to current standards (choice of subtitles and audio tracks, average quality of the image, encoding in x264), while being as consistent as possible with the original Laserdisc (original chapters, original subtitles, original soundtracks, original colors…): no source other than the LD was used, nothing was changed, added or removed.
This preservation was achieved with the best hardware (Pioneer HLD-X0, Comb Filter EVAL-ADV7842…) and the best softwares, at the best possible resolution.

Method

• Average of 4 captures of two different copies of the (new) discs with a Pioneer HLD-X0 player
• Composite to 3D Comb Filter EVAL-ADV7842
• Capture Card Magewell HDMI Pro
• 4 x Uncompressed 8bit RGB captures (MagicYUV)
• Manual IVTC, except for the beginning chapters (disclaimer and “logos”) which were not interlaced and/or not telecined
• Denoising with Neat Video 5.0 (cleaning on a profile built solely on the basis of the digital noise, no cleaning of the grain): the residual noise was kept for future reintegration
• format warped to the correct ratio (177/160 according to SMPTE RP 187)
• Improved sharpness: average of several upscales via Topaz Video Enhance 1.2 with different settings (HQ and CG), then downscale to the original size of 720x480 (DAR 4:3).
• Overlay with the noise previously removed
• Isolation of the original Japanese subtitles, deinterlacing, scanning and then inlaying in VOBSUB format (with SubLog filter + BDSup2Sub512)
• Chapters fully compliant with the original LD (original titles translated from Japanese inlay)
• Original sound captured in bitperfect mode (Dolby Digital EX 6.1, PCM 2.0) and mono analog track, without any retouching, fade in/out or gain change.
• Dolby Surround Track 4.0 (L, C, R, S) recreated from decoding PCM 2.0.
• HD scan of the cover (outside and inside), insert, OBI, bonus cards and discs

Result

• Matroska container (mkv)
• Video 720x480 (4:3) encoded in x264 High 3.1 at 17,5 Mbps, 23.976 progressive fps
• Original Japanese subtitles (bitmaps embedded in a IDX/SUB file)
• Audio tracks:
  o Dolby Digital EX 6.1
  o PCM 2.0
  o Analog Audio (mono)
  o Dolby Surround 4.0
• Bonus pictures (cover, inserts, OBI, bonus cards…) embedded into the mkv file as attachments

Disclaimer

Downloading this version requires to own an official version of the film.
This file can be shared or used in third-party projects, under the following conditions:

• In the case of a share, its quality cannot be altered (no recompression please), and it must always be accompanied by this presentation
• In the case of use in third-party projects (fan-edits, reconstructions, regrading, etc.), please always mention this original source.

Requests

• If you detect errors (missing frames, bad disinterlacing…), don’t hesitate to contact me
• If you own the original VHS in other languages (French, German, Spanish, Italian, etc.), and if you can record the audio track (raw, without cleaning or retouching), I would be happy to be able to integrate it into a future v2.

Screenshots

Original artwork

Sleeve, insert and obi:

Discs:

Bonus cards:

Download link (WeTransfer) available on simple request (please PM me)

Thanks !

Interesting!
Could you please specify at what timing this scene appears in episode 2 of “Disney Gallery: The Mandalorian”?
Thank you very much!

Actually, the Cantina band is (shortly) visible in the theatrical cut of the pod race:

Suprisingly, the same shot was used twice, at 7’23 and 12’04 (according to the timing of the Digital Collection bonus).

Thanks a lot for this useful topic!