TM2YC

Hello one and all,

Been looking around for inspiration for a standard  single volume Blu-Ray case cover for my 'Star Wars: Reborn' edits of the PT (I'll have them up on the spleen soon).  None of the paintings, posters or custom covers I've seen really capture what I'm after.

In my cuts Vader is not featured so he can't feature in my box art. Also I'd rather not feature Anakin or Obi as they look different in all 3 films (Not wedded to that though, ROTS Hayden looks very cool with his scar).

I could go with a simple plain cover featuring just the SW logo but I want something more.  A design/image that captures the whole PT story.  I also want my cover to evoke the kind of poster art that the PT would've had back in the 80s.

Can anyone help please?!?!

Ryan

(P.S. news on 'Star Wars: Reborn' in the fanedit forum very soon)

"The AOTC speeder is a real prop on fire"

WHAT!?!??!?!

It can't be!! It's the worst CGI in the film!  Where is the evidence you've seen that this was a real shot? (The evidence of my own eyes says different) I can't remember seeing it in any behind-the-scenes featurettes. I know a physical prop was used for most of the sequence but not the actual crash!

If you are right, I would eat my hat (If I owned a hat)! Then get my eyes tested and have a CT scan on my brain!

Plus that is not fire, mankind has had the invention of fire for quite a while and it has never looked like that!

That Yoda comic is v funny. Thanks for that

Hey, it's me. said:

How do you know Vader didnt send troops to investigate? He obviously sensed Luke was still alive. Maybe the TIEs that intercept the Falcon were there to search for Luke and stumbled upon it rescuing him. That's the way I see it. 

Oh I totally agree, I was just making a point about things not being explained in all 6 of the SW films.  But as I said I don't care that things aren't explained on screen.  Exposition is can be a curse on cinema if over used.

Bingowings said:

 

The destruction of the Executor in ROTJ is awful beyond words and the shot of the skiff escaping the sailbarge explosion looks like it belongs in an episode of Blakes 7. 

Yes, executor crash in ROTJ is just terrible. I've had paper aeroplanes crash into the dirt that looked better than that.

But Skiff explosion is astounding work.

For example, which looks more convincing?.....

Bingowings said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

Bingowings said:

Sorry I should have said relies on rather than trusting.

His 'improvisation' hinges on Artoo being up on that barge balcony and is made more convenient by all the other characters being where they are.

If that didn't happen The Empire would have won the war.

See bonkers insane luck all round.

You might as well said invisible wizards did it.

 

You don't think luck plays any part in...

- ANH - garbage masher sequence.

- ESB - Luke just happening to fall out the bottom of Bespin so Leia could rescue him?

There is luck in Threepio turning his phone on in time (well within the realms of plausible luck and excusable dramatic license) but the rest is Artoo's skill and the Bespin thing is down to Luke communicating via the Force to someome we later learn is Force sensitive herself.

So the layers of luck are much less than in that sequence.

Agreed, I've no problem with a bit of luck and winging it, which is what goes on in ROTJ.

Yes Leia uses the force to rescue luke from that pylon. But the force had nothing to do with getting him to that pylon. If he had somehow surved that massive fall and landed ANYWHERE else in Bespin. Leia would've had to abandon Luke because her, Lando and Chewie caouldn't have fought backinto Bespin against the whole Empire.

Plus how come Vader just leaves Bespin anyway?!? Why doesn't he at least attempt to get some of his troopers to go find where Luke landed and arrest him?!?

SOOOO many plot holes in all 6 SW films.  But in the OT I'm having SOOOO much fun I don't care for a second!

I agree SilverWook,

Hopefully the era of unbridled needless use of inferior CGI is slowly ending.  With Directors like Peter Jackson and Chris Nolan restricting the use of CGI to the best way to seemlessly integrate live-action-actors, live-action-footage and old-skool model effects. Plus of course employing CGI when you can't accomplish the shot any-other way (And you've tried to!).

Also you've got young directors like Duncan Jones using practical models to achieve stunning scenes on a micro-budget in 'Moon'.  And new box office mega-smah 'Evil Dead' using te minimum CGI also in favour of eye-wincing makeup effects and chucking buckets of good old corn syrup at the camera.

Best special effects ever achieved would have to be nearly a quarter century ago in 'Blade Runner' just before the advent of CGI.  Sadly ILM try to reference BR in the AOTC chase with disastrous results!

Bingowings said:

Sorry I should have said relies on rather than trusting.

His 'improvisation' hinges on Artoo being up on that barge balcony and is made more convenient by all the other characters being where they are.

If that didn't happen The Empire would have won the war.

See bonkers insane luck all round.

You might as well said invisible wizards did it.

 

You don't think luck plays any part in...

- ANH - garbage masher sequence.

- ESB - Luke just happening to fall out the bottom of Bespin so Leia could rescue him?

Okay, here's a challenge guys n gals!

Can you think of a better plan than the one from ROTJ (That I elaborated on above) to rescue Han.  Without using the words "Let's just go in there and kill everyone in the palace with blasters, thermal detonators and my swish new green Lightsaber"?

Would love to see them!

Bingowings said:

So Luke is trusting on Lando being on the skiff, Leia being chained next to Jabba, and Artoo being on the sail barge with Threepio.

None of these decisions he has any say in.

If we saw Lando paying Fett to turn a blind eye now and then and maybe Artoo reprogram 9D9 to get her to put him on the barge it might make some sense but then what about the Rancor?

The only reason they are out in the open is because Luke killed Jabba's other pit monster so was he pretending to be in peril back then?

Was it like American Wrestling (genuinely dangerous but mostly staged)? Did Leia allow herself to get captured on orally interfered with deliberately? How did they know for sure that Jabba wouldn't kill them all on the spot?

He doesn't seem as influenced by the Force as Bib Fortuna.

In ANH they Luke has a clear plan, which Han has doubts about but they do wig it with a mixture of skill and plausible good fortune.

There is no plan here it's all insane luck.

Re-read my post. I'm not suggesting Luke DID KNOW they would be on the skiff etc he improvised!

Hey, it's me. said:

I admit I have tried to defend the whole Han rescue making sense before but truthfully, it just doesn't. It's a contrived mess just thought up in 5 mins so as to get all the main protagonists back on screen. As if Lucas was thinking that's what the audience would want to see. One thing that hasn't been pointed out (I assume) is how comes Fett didnt recognise Lando? Now I know he had his guards uniform on but the majority of his face was still discernable? Hadn't he clocked him at various points and thought, 'hang on, he looks kinda familiar? ESB Fett was portrayed as a cunning, intelligent bounty hunter. If I was Fett, when it all kicked off I would've just said see ya. I got paid for Solo and this ain't my beef. Pretty sure there are other gangsters out there to work for. It's like if you work in a bank and it gets robbed, what do you do? Try to be a hero? No, if your smart you do f*** all and try to get out of there if the opportunity presents itself. No rather than that we're led to believe that instead of just being out for himself, through some kind of blind loyalty to his gangster sub contractor that's never been established, he gets involved. And so we get the premature, comical death of one of the best parts of ESB. 

You don't think Boba Fett would see any benefit in saving the life of the HUGELY WEALTHY AND POWERFULL Jabba?????

Bingowings said:

"In ROTJ the plan to rescue Han from Jabba's palace, if it exists at all doesn't make sense"

To address some of the supposed weaknesses of the rescue plot (In a side note, compared to some our recent geek mega blockbusters TDKR, Star Trek, and any Marvel film that feature truely insane scripts, the plotting in ROTJ is like a meticulously reasoned logic puzzle) I offer the following:

The team plan is... Lando goes in to scope out the joint (He may have been there for weeks, who knows, it isn't important). He gives Leia and Luke the low down and they hit on the clever idea of Leia going in disguised as a bounty hunter with Chewie as irresistable bait for Jabba. She'll free han, Lando in his guard disguise will free Chewie and with the droids in tow they'll all make a quiet exit in the dead of night.  They all agree but Luke plans to wait as backup incase anything in this deadly situation and VERY risky plan goes wrong.

Which indeed it does!

Luke guesses that he might be searched for arms on his way in to the palace before getting anywhere near Jabba so he has already hidden his Saber inside R2 (Assuming wrongly, that he'll be able to get it if talking to Jabba doesn't work). Unfortunately R2 has been assigned to the sail barge so Luke realises he needs to improvise and tries to grab a blaster before falling into the Rancor pit.  Then when they are taken to the Sarlacc pit R2 and Luke improvise again, R2 sees his chance to get Luke the saber. Luke gives him the nod. He gives Lando the nod that he's gonna try a rescue. Lando nods back... the gang all pull together and the rest is history.

Or putting it simply (To quote Bingowings comment about the merits of ANH), they...

"Somehow wriggle themselves out of the situation with a mixture of plausible luck and decision making that makes sense"

I rest my case your honor.

Or even...

Decided to have a bit of fun mocking up what it might look like if Luke had stayed behind in Yoda's hut to build his lightsaber after Yoda had died. So Yoda would've just said "You must confront Vader, then and only then a Jedi will you be".  So Luke thinks well I better build something to confront him with!

Nice that it looks like he's wearing a mourning cloak.

A still image is one thing. god knows how to do this as a video lol

Re "Emperor as cackling sorcerer". I agree this is why I love him as a character. Star Wars was never meant to be subtle, Lucas set out to play with our ingrained cultural tropes (Deviating from this is partly why the PT struggled).  For example...

Han's look isn't inspired by the cowboy look, it is the cowboy look! You could wear Hans costume in an authentic western and you wouldn't bat an eye.

Leia is dressed as a medieval princess. Same costume as an english princess from a forties swashbuckler.

Stormtroopers are wearing medieval Knight armour sprayed white. Spray it silver and helmetless stormtroopers would make fine extras in any arthurian movie.

Obi-Wan is dressed as a scruffy Ronin. That costume would be fine in any Jidaigeki film that Toho studios made.

Vader is the black knight of legend in armour and cloak with the addition of a helmet based on German WWII stormtroopers.

The Empire look and act like Nazis.

The dogfighting is straight out of WWII films like 663 squadron and of course the trench run is the dambusters.

These are all genres and styles that evoke instant reactions and instant understanding from us all. So like I say Star Wars works BECAUSE it's totally unsubtle!

Maybe why the Podracing was the only bit of TPM that absolutely nailed the fun of starwars.  It's flying race cars simple and easy to understand.

Thx for the link msycamore:

Deja vu... similar thread here: http://originaltrilogy.com/forum/topic.cfm/Since-when-did-ROTJ-become-less-highly-regarded-than-even-Episodes-II-or-III/topic/14909/

Will check it out.

I guess by "technicaly a better film" I mean that ESB runs smooth from start to finish, flawless at every point. Where as ROTJ has highs and some lows. But the highs are so very, very high. i.e.

Sarlac pit / Speeder chase / Greatest space battle ever commited to celuloid / Throne room sequence

ESB has no momments to touch the exhileration of the first 3 of these sequences. Vader and Luke in cloud city is on a par with the end of ROTJ though.

Plus ROTJ introduces us to great characters like Jabba and The Emperor who are easily as good as ESB new characters (Lando and Boba).

It would need some CGI work thats beyong my skill.

- Change lukes ESB clothes to Black ROTJ ones. Think that would be enough to sell it without aging him down.

- Maybe change that unexplained metal bar to the familiar floating rock we see in ESB.

- The landing shot from ROTS needs a slowmo to stretch it out before the cut away. I couldn't cut any later as Yoda's pod comes into view.

- There is also footage of Luke doing Lightsaber training on Endor on the Blu-Ray deleted scenes. But this would need sound and CGI. + it would also mean you'd need to move the saber construction scene to inside Yodas hut with a different matte somehow???

Looking forward to more of this edit in the future!!!!

imperialscum said:

Bingowings said:

Jedi is really an indication of the SE and PT that followed it.

That is a silly statement...

Just how does ROTJ indicate to the SE? There is more miniature model based SFX in ROTJ than in any Star Wars film. Not to mention, ROTJ suffered the most from latest SEs (Hayden, NOOO, Dug)

And the prequels are fundamentally a complete opposite of ROTJ. ROTJ is essentially a pure adventure/fantasy film (I would say even more so than SW and ESB). While the prequels are essentially a soap opera about an annoying troubled kid growing up.

I can totally see what Bingowings means. For example...Gungans/Naboo/JedivSith Theed battle is a similar structure to Ewoks/Rebels/LukevVader Endor battle.

Hi Dan,

Here's a very rough idea of how the intro onto Endor could go:

https://vimeo.com/65140549

Password is: daneditor

The pan down is too quick and jumpy, the audio is rough, the colours are rough, the music needs to be more fluid but you should get the general idea (Could also use some Yoda dialogue dubbed on when you can't see his lips "beware the darkside" etc).

Ryan

I used clips from:

ESB / ESB deleted scene / ROTS deleted scene

You all make very fine well reasoned arguments against ROTJ.  In fact so much so that I've changed my opinion.  ESB is the bes....

...wait WOW just watched luke flipping in the air above the sarlac pit, catching a lightsaber outta the air then kickin ass Errol Flynn 1930's style!

Return Of The Jedi IS the best Star Wars Film!

lol

Hi Dan,

As han says in ROTJ "I got an idea".

Just waiting for Vimeo to upload and post a link for you.

Ryan

Can I be the first to say WOW! This is totally stunning work.  God only knows how much thought must have gone into the reordering and how much searching around for alternate footage you must have done nevermind the brilliant work putting it all together.  I can't wait to see how you've rescued the sandstorm footage.  A jigsaw like masterpiece where the joins between the pieces are almost invisible.

I read a comment somewhere that the opening pan down onto endor looked a bit odd without a ship passing by.  You've got me thinking how this could be solved.

My favourite bit is how you've switched up the meaning of the line "I've got a promise to keep to an old friend" by moving it to a different place in the narrative.

More! More!

Ryan

For me Ian McDiarmid's performance in the PT is the best thing in those films.  He was clearly at great pains to slowly become the emperor. His voice subtely changes and the makeup changes too.  It's clear from interviews and commentaries that he always thought Lucas was on the same page as him so was a bit miffed (He wouldn't put it so strongly cause hes an RSC pro) when all the subtelty was thrown out the window in favour of having Mace burn his face.

I grew up naturally assuming that the emperor looked mumified like he does in ROTJ because his soul was so rotten and corrupted by the darkside that it had even began to eat away at his body. Like the ring did to gollum.

But apparently no. The PT trilogy makes it clear that the only thing worshiping the darkside does is give you yellow contact lenses. sigh

actually you know what, chewie doing a tarzan impression is one of the worst things in the whole 6 film saga. That needs changing deffo

daneditor said:

Ryan McAvoy said:

Sorry but...

"Took out Lando 'Yeehaaa' or whatever cheesy line it is, when they escape the Death Star"

That scene is one of the greatest achievements in human history! Including landing on the moon!

If I could wave a magic wand and do one thing from Star Wars it would probably be, blasting out of an exploding death star in the Falcon reathed in fire shouting Yeehaaa in Billy Dee's voice (Whilst wearing a flowing grey cape and suave moustache preferably)

I've watched that hundreds of times and I swear down I almost reckon hes not gonna make it everytime.  Goosebumps, chills down the spine and huge open mouthed smiling ensues every time.

But that just my personnal preference lol

Taking out the Lando yeehaaa was about the first thing I cut. I always hated it, and honestly if I couldn't have seamlessly cut it I may have abandoned the edit before going any further.

lmao! Just shows its horses for courses!  Amazing that Lucas' OT can provoke such diverse reactions from fans, yet 100% of fans think his PT sucks lol.

Probably the thing that irritates me most about ROTJ is at 1.34.39 when the Tie fighters are magicaly appearing out of nowhere. Really lazy of the FX team given all the eye meltingly brilliant FX they turned in during the rest of the space battle.