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22-Apr-2013
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27-Feb-2022
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Post
#707744
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

Not so much how the actual plate would be made, but moreso how it would be aligned with the motion of the rest of the shot. Sure they had motion control but the plume would obviously not have been to scale with the rest of the elements, as such the previously used camera moves wouldn't have worked. I imagine it would have taken a lot of time to integrate them properly, and it would have also introduced yet another generation in to an already composite heavy scene.

These sort of things were usually animated by hand or they were very simple shots. Jedi has impact explosions that match motion during a shot but the motion is slow and simple.

To clarify the above applied to the first plume (which has a good amount of motion). The following plumes are on a stable shot.

Few more observations:

-After the collision the right TIE makes several rotations before colliding with the wall. Given the inertia of the ships before the collision, this motion doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. But I'm only commenting on this because I used to animate; it's a very minor point in a well executed shot.

-After the TIEs collide, the camera slows or stops for the last few frames of that shot.

Post
#707728
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

I understand the difference. From what I've seen thus far (though I do not follow the progress on this edit religiously), most of what has been added looks as though it could plausibly have been done using the effects methods of the day. Are not most of the offending elements of the SE despised because they look so out of place due to an overtly CG nature?

In regards to vertical vs. horizontal, it's more about the scale and variation of the details vs. the orientation.

Post
#707702
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

Couple observations:

How would the dust stirred up from the laser bolts be done in the early 80s? Seeing those takes me out of the experience a bit as they would've been very difficult to create back then.

In the original clip, when the TIEs enter the canyon they do a little positioning maneuver which adds some visual interest in to what is going on. In the revisited clip, they enter via a straight line which not only has less visual interest, it also doesn't make sense that they'd collide flying so evenly spaced.

The original canyon had some texture to the miniature and walls which gave it a good sense of scale. The revisited canyon looks to only have one size of texture on it, and it's so big relative to the ships it no longer looks convincing.

Post
#702705
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

adywan said:

yeh, there is a little more noise in the Revisited version. But i'm not too bothered about it. I'd take a little noise like that over how bad the blu-rays look any day.

 Ah that's much better. I guess the facebook compression took the film grain and created those artifacts. I can just barley see some h.264 compression artifacts in the dark areas due to the brightness increase, but that being I'm sure it will look fine in motion.

Post
#702661
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

adywan said:

I haven't tried to reverse the crushed blacks because i don't like the artefacts it creates. What part did you notice this on? If you can post a screenshot from the video i can post an uncompressed image.

 http://s14.postimg.org/n6ci4txhd/Star_Wars_comparison.png

I'm not looking at the image on my grading display at the moment so it might just be due to the calibration this monitor has, but to my eye the macro-blocking on your grade seems to be a little more visible than the blu-ray.

Post
#702588
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

It's hard to tell due to the compressed nature of the upload, but in your trying to reverse some of the black crushing/gain lowering of the blu-rays, are you inadvertently making visible some of the compression artifacts that existed in the black parts of the image? As mentioned I can't tell if it's due to the upload or if it's because of the blu-ray compression.

Post
#702389
Topic
Star Wars 1977 releases on 35mm
Time

poita said: 

That would be great as a client monitor, but I am in Australia, so it probably won't work :(

Yet, it will be graded in resolve after repairing the damage on the defect matte.

Plasmas are problematic to use for grading, the ABL screws everything up. The floating white point on plasmas is difficult to deal with, but they do work well on 80% of scenes, and make a great client 'wow!' monitor, and a preview monitor for motion.

For anyone contemplating setting up a grading suite, something like this for example, http://youtu.be/QMcjRZbujYg , with white backgrounds would be impossible to grade on a plasma.

There are definitely some scenes in SW that could cause problems, but it would be fine for the majority of the movie.

 

I have read they are problematic due to ABL (Steve Shaw on LGG is the priest of this opinion), however if one is mindful of the displays limits, and it's calibrated for use in a dim room (so that the power draw for 100% white doesn't trigger aggressive ABL), then I imagine it shouldn't be too much of a problem to one who knows what they're doing. 

Couple a good LCD with a good plasma and you'd have all the bases covered I'd say ; D.

I actually just bought a Kuro monitor for use in grading my Star Trek TMP project as I'd been spoiled by using a Trinitron for so long and its superior motion resolution and on-off contrast, though I do have favor for LCDs given their stability and potential gamut flexibility assuming a wide gamut backlight.

Post
#701158
Topic
Star Wars 1977 releases on 35mm
Time

Is this going to be regraded in Resolve? Also I'm super jealous that you have an FSI! 

You mentioned wanting an OLED panel. Would you be interested in the next best thing? There is a Pioneer Kuro plasma 50 inch in my area going for about 700. These screens can be calibrated to cover Rec709 almost perfectly, and provide motion resolution that exceeds any current oled, as well as blacks that are almost as good (0.001 nits). You'd be limited to HDMI but good SDI cards like the deck link have HDMI ports as well.

If it'd help with the grading (as LCDs are somewhat deficient when it comes to contrast and motion resolution) let me know and I can work out purchasing and shipping it on your behalf.

 

Post
#700286
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

AuggieBenDoggie said:

Most modern monitors will allow you to change the color settings including gamma. Or if you have a calibrator you can give it a target like rec 709: However, if Ady has two monitors, he can change one of them and view on one. Also The chromaticity for sRGB and rec 709 are pretty much the same I believe. rec 709 is closer to film gamma.

Edit:  Windows 7 and 8 have 10 Bit output support via nVidia Quadro cards.

 

True points, however that still doesn't solve the problem of the OS mucking with the color output of the program's output, then it has to go to the video card LUTs, then to the display. I doubt Ady has a Quadro, simply because they are prohibitively expensive.

The best solution is to get a Decklink card and run HDMI out of that to the grading display. That way you know that what you're seeing (assuming the display is calibrated correctly) is exactly what the program is displaying.

Post
#699684
Topic
STAR WARS: EP V &quot;REVISITED EDITION&quot;<strong>ADYWAN</strong> - <strong>12GB 1080p MP4 VERSION AVAILABLE NOW</strong>
Time

ITU specified the rec 709 format used in HDTV systems, whereas SMPTE covers other standards like SDI interfaces or CRT phosphors.

The problem with using a PC monitor for grading is that they usually can't guarantee 100% of rec709, not to mention what windows outputs to the video card is 8 bit video that has been messed with by window's internal color system.

Might want to think about getting a 125 dollar decklink monitor lite for monitoring the video feed, as you'll be able to bypass window's color system and get straight YUV 4:2:2 from AE via HDMI (though your monitor needs to be able to support 10 bit YUV for this to work the best). 

Post
#699523
Topic
Info &amp; Help Wanted: 'Star Trek - The Motion Picture'; Laserdisc Color Timing and Audio
Time

The deleted scenes are hard to judge given they're non-anamorphic NTSC. I don't have time to check all my sources at the moment, but from memory they have their own timing, different from the DE.

I agree, I'd kill to have all those character scenes in HD, as I'm not looking forward to upscaling NTSC.

Does anyone have professional experience in color grading? Using Davinci Resolve or some similar software?

Post
#699339
Topic
Info &amp; Help Wanted: 'Star Trek - The Motion Picture'; Laserdisc Color Timing and Audio
Time

When creating the DE they did have access to the reels I believe, and could therefore scan whatever they wanted to use (there are several cases of alternate shots being used). However a lot of the FX footage for the model work was lost or destroyed so no re-compositing was done.

I suspect that the 2009 DVD & Blu-Ray is a new scan, as the frame geometry is different vs the 2002 DVD and HD broadcast (I'd guess the HD broadcast was the transfer they used for the 2002 DE). Based on the trailer transfers included on the blu-ray (footage least likely to be messed with), and some of the LD captures I've seen, I'd conjecture that none of the post LD transfers reflect the theatrical presentation:

-The 2002 DVD and HDTV copies were re-color-timed according to the people who worked on it. Compared to the trailers and some LD captures it has a heavy red push and has a low gamma value for some reason, however the highlights are well preserved resulting in high contrast in several scenes with no blown highlights. The print, unfortunately, either wasn't properly cleaned or has a lot of dirt embedded in it, as it's a very dirty transfer.

-The 2009 DVD and Blu have different color timing that in some cases matches the trailers and LD captures, however in place of the red push for the prior transfer there is a heavy blu push, and the color saturation has also been increased. The gamma issue seems to be fixed in most scenes, however it seems to have completely washed out certain shots, while in others the highlights and black levels are blown out to clipping (some one wasn't watching their scopes it seems)*. And of course there are a lot of issues with unnecessary levels of grain removal, transfer errors, frozen grain fields, etc.

To make matters even more complicated, in one of the TMP documentaries there is spliced in footage of the transfer made for the blu-ray release, before it was DNRed, color timed, and went through digital dirt removal, with yet still different color timing! All of these reasons are why I'm looking for a basic digital copy of the LD that retains color fidelity, as I'm wagering it's probably the transfer that was least tampered with going from film to DI.

*The black levels can be explained because the many levels of optical compositing raised the black level of the film print, which resulted in many shots having a dark gray background for space. The colorist must have tried to "fix that" by lowering the black level of the space field so it's actually black, but this also crushed a lot of detail in several of those scenes.

Post
#698700
Topic
Info &amp; Help Wanted: 'Star Trek - The Motion Picture'; Laserdisc Color Timing and Audio
Time

Aside from a lot of dirt being cleaned up in the picture, the biggest reason for primarily working with the blu is that the HD Broadcast has a LOT of compression artifacts and doesn't stand up to close scrutiny. It also seems to be framed differently as well as having some squashing or stretching here or there compared to the blu. And while contrast boosting was done (at the expense of shadow detail and highlights in too many scenes), the DVD and HD broadcasts were very dim in places... I'm not sure why this is the case, but when I look at the HD transfers of the trailers they do not show this dimness, nor do some of the LD screencaps that I've seen.

Post
#698696
Topic
Info &amp; Help Wanted: 'Star Trek - The Motion Picture'; Laserdisc Color Timing and Audio
Time

FF's inbox has been full for a while now : \

For my fanedit I'm using primarily the blu (color corrected of course), HDTV broadcast for some shots, director's DVD for a few other shots, and the SLV scenes from the blu extras.

The main reason I'm looking for a laserdisc transfer is to have a reference for the color grading and the original PCM soundmix to build off of, as I really do not like surround upmixes like the 7.1 track for the blu, nor do I wish to work from lossy sources like the AC3 mixes.