PDB

DoomBot said:

Space Kaijuu said:

 I'll be posting it to a certain spleen in a while since it's still not up there.  If I can get the 2-disc cover before I post it, I can add that to the torrent.

Thank you Space Kaijuu  very cool of you.

Agreed, thanks Space Kaijuu, that would be awesome

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

UPDATE:

the final video is processing right now, and should be reviewed tomorrow by me and other selected members to find out if there are residual shots with artefacts; if - as I hope - everything will be OK, it will be released within one week or earlier.

Sweet

Got a lot of real life stuff going but I was finally able to finish the Raiders sync to the BD. I haven't tested it yet so if someone wants to give it a try just PM me.

Movie: (Indiana Jones And The) Raiders Of The Lost Ark

Format: Laserdisc LV 1376-WS

Input Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround 44.1 khz, 16-bit, Bit Perfect

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround 48 khz, 16-bit

Synced To: 2012 Blu-ray Release Region A 

Ripped/Synced by: PDB

Notes: Contains the original Dolby Stereo soundtrack.

I also added the Criterion Halloween Mono that Dark Jedi ripped and Doombot synced to the list:

Movie: Halloween

Format: Laserdisc CC1462L

Input Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Mono 44.1 khz, 16-bit

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Mono 48 khz, 16-bit

Synced To: 2013 Blu-ray Release Region A

Ripped/Synced by: Dark Jedi/Doombot

Notes: From the Criterion laserdisc. Contains the original theatrical mono.

msycamore said:

PDB said:

Wow, good call msycamore, never noticed that difference. The blu-ray is exactly the same. The "Oh Jesus" is almost non-existent on the BD 5.1, but mixed at normal levels on BD mono.  The 5.1 seems to be the same as the MGM DVD 5.1. Also I checked the BD's mono vs the LD's mono and they seem to be the same, so the BD's mono seems to be the original. (The LD also has the "Oh Jesus" mixed normal)

Thanks for going through the trouble and confirming that for me! And yes, the audible Tom Atkins line in the mono track is definitely one telltale sign it isn't a simple downmix, but unfortunately the muffled quality of that track is so bad it's not even an option for me. Might be seeking out one of the earlier LD issues with analog mono for a potential better sounding mono track. Is it the '95 Widescreen LD that you own?

Yep it is this one :

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/06566/ID2846SU/Fog-The:-Special-Edition-(1980)

msycamore said:

Great stuff you guys are doing! :) Hope to help out adding to this list when the time comes. Wish I had your expertise when it comes to syncing audio. So are everyone of these tracks only prepared in a synced state? It would be fantastic if the raw rips also gets preserved as to not being locked to a specific video transfer for future use.

Love to have you add some soundtracks, msycamore. I learned how to do by asking others (jonno, zeropc) here and just experimenting. I can only speak for myself but I keep a copy of the original unsynced track also. You never know when a new video format will be out (like 4K) and frankly my LD player is from the mid 90s so you never know when it will give up the ghost.

msycamore said:

Need to check which LD issue of Dirty Harry I own, I'm 99% sure mine got the original mono.

I went back to examine the audio on the old MGM's Reg1 The Fog DVD and the mono track available on it may actually be the real thing contrary to what I previously stated in the first post of this thread, but the quality of the track is so flat, muffled and bad in its quality it's hard to tell for sure what it really is, the original track on my old VHS is so much superior in comparison it's not even funny.

The 5.1 provided on that same disc is actually pretty damn good and a much closer representation of the original mix in its clarity, but being a modern re-mix it also have its issues such as missing or inaudible fx and dialogue, the inaudible "Oh, Jesus." line in the car from Tom Atkins character (Nick Castle) in close-up when they rescue the kid comes to mind as one of the most awkward errors.

Reports and reviews of the BD seems to indicate Shout Factory ported the audio from the MGM release but this time they're of course in DTS-HD Master Audio. PDB, if you ever find the time to examine this for me could you please check and confirm that this mixing-error is still present in the BD's 5.1 track?

Wow, good call msycamore, never noticed that difference. The blu-ray is exactly the same. The "Oh Jesus" is almost non-existent on the BD 5.1, but mixed at normal levels on BD mono.  The 5.1 seems to be the same as the MGM DVD 5.1. Also I checked the BD's mono vs the LD's mono and they seem to be the same, so the BD's mono seems to be the original. (The LD also has the "Oh Jesus" mixed normal)

Jonno said:

Here's an amendment for Ghostbusters, or possible an addition (the original sync might have its uses if the earlier BD and the 4K aren't frame-matched - I haven't taken the time to check).

Movie: Ghostbusters

Format: Laserdisc CC1182L

Input Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround 44.1 khz, 16-bit, Bit Perfect

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround 48 khz, 16-bit

Synced To: 2013 Blu-ray Release Region A (4K Remaster)

Ripped/Synced by: Jonno

Notes: From the Criterion laserdisc. Contains the original Dolby Stereo soundtrack.

Just added, thanks Jonno.

I'm working on Raiders (widescreen LD) right now.

captainsolo said:

BTW it is thought that the 1992 first WS LD of Jaws has a slightly different mix due to a few source cues being changed for rights issues.

Thanks PDB, that's what I thought about Criterion vs. MGM as I've noticed form other films I've compared of theirs. I still want to see the MGM NbyNW disc for the transfer as it's reputed to be completely different from all others.

There shouldn't be stereo for NbyNW as it only played in mono, even at the full VistaVision premiere. Plus the VV system used Perspecta directioned 3 track sound in the big venues anyway. The mono track obliterates the 5.1 which in comparison is too tamed and safe.

Vertigo's old LD is analog only so we've often thought a Beta or VHS issue may yield slightly better audio. I haven't got the chance to really take a close look at the new mono on the BD (in DTS) but I'm almost positive the 2005 Masterpiece Collection DVD mono is the same as the old analog LD source. Certainly sounds like it.

I know of some who have been working with the GBU audio and especially with the rumors of a reissue BD, that might be something to tackle later. Is that the 1998 deleted scenes Italian mono you're referring to or a different source?

Ok, here's my growing shelf:

http://www.lddb.com/collection.php?action=list&user=sdraper

 

Jonno, when the headroom is limited is that what contributes to having to massively increase the volume in order to reach normal sound levels? I had to do this last night with the ESB SWE disc.

Yeah, I heard about the Jaws music changes in the other thread. I assume the Signature Edition is ok?

I just like having the options. I can listen to the mono with all of its pluses and minuses or the 5.1. I just want to get as close to the theatrical sound as possible. I think studio believe that most people nowadays have an aversion to a mono soundtrack.

Sorry, I must of misread your earlier post, captainsolo. I read it as the Criterion NbyNW LD's audio was sourced from a stereo print not a mono print, which didn't make sense.

I agree that sourcing the Vertigo LD analog soundtrack might be a waste of time, since it will definitely lack fidelity but I have the LD so I thought why not? It might be nice to compare it to the regular dts on the Blu-ray. See if there is anything to be gained.

I was referencing the Italian mono on the Mondo (Italian) blu-ray. It is amazingly loud.

Great collection BTW. If you need anything synced let me know.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

PDB said:

That's great _,,,^..^,,,_, can't wait to hear them.

As Jonno have "Jaws", this means I am "forced" to do "Escape From New York"... (^^,)

What a shame :)

Jonno said:

PDB said:

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

Bigrob sent me his Jaws signature edition disc to work on. I've captured it but not synced it yet - happy to pass it on to someone else if they'll have the time to do it before I will. It's another rather quiet track, by the way, but very clean sounding (in dual mono).

I will work on it Jonno, if you send it my way. I'm working on The Good, The Bad and The Ugly and Raiders right now but I will add Jaws as next after that.

_,,,^..^,,,_ said:

PDB said:

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

I have both laserdiscs (Jaws Signature Collection box set, Escape from New York Special Edition) but still not captured them. But be sure I'll do for one of them, for one of my next projects...

That's great _,,,^..^,,,_, can't wait to hear them.

This is sad, how hard is it to put the original mono on there in loseless. I wish Shout factory had Halloween. They put the original mono soundtrack on their Fog release. They have become what Anchor Bay was in the early days of DVD.

Does anyone have the LD's PCM soundtracks (synced or not synced) for Jaws and Escape from New York? They were mentioned heavily in the remix thread and I wanted to see if anyone had already worked on them. I don't have either of the laserdiscs and would love to hear them.

captainsolo said:

How does the MGM North by Northwest audio compare? The Criterion is seemingly print sourced and has many many source defects, I've often wondered what MGM used on theirs. Criterion credits the source as stereo soundtrack masters transferred to 24 track digital for the LD master.  The missing effects come as no surprise. The 5.1 loses a great deal of the soundfield in favor of multichannel usage and plastering the score over everything, much as the Vertigo remixes. And it harms the mix in a irreparable way. Once you hear the mono track, you can never go back to 5.1. Everything is placed perfectly in the mix, and for all those that defend the multi-channel mix as being VistaVision accurate: N by NW was mono-only.

For GBU-DEFINITELY stay with Italian mono. That has original effects as designed by Leone with the original mixing and quite excellent Italian dubbing. The MGM mix loses a great deal of Leone's careful sound design by erasing and plastering everything with horrible out of place and obvious effects. Additionally the new voice recordings are very jarring in that they weren't done very well, weren't integrated at all, and you can painfully tell the actor's age difference. I've watched the Italian version many times, and it is actually less jarring to switch to Italian w/subs for scenes than the MGM nightmare--even downmixed (like their total failure of a mono downmix for DYS)

 

I've never done a side by side with Red October, just usually pop in the awesome LD Dolby Stereo. Great news on the Temple audio. That needs to be heard...wait, experienced by everyone. Same goes for the rest of the trilogy if only for the original sound design and panning.

 

Since this has become the dedicated thread, is it possible to put up some general how-to's on capturing digital audio properly and general guidelines on re-syncing to different sources? I've dabbled in this a bit before, and now that I have a brimming LD shelf I'd like to get some equipment to work with the audio.

The Criterion's NByNW sounds very nice. Basically it sounds like a older mono soundtrack with background hiss, a little more hollow and little less dynamic. That is not a slight against the soundtrack. It is just what it sounds like; a mono soundtrack. The 5.1 has obviously been run through serious noise reduction to make it sound "modern". However the mono sounds a lot better in some places. For example when the plane and truck collide the 5.1 mutes the sound of the explosion to add in a subwoofer effect. The original mono has a louder explosion sound. The MGM sounds slightly better with a little better dynamics. That could be because it came from a better master then Criterion had or the fact they did work on it (like the stereoized credits). The MGM still sounds like a mono soundtrack. All in all both the Criterion and MGM mono sound like a mono film from the late 50s, you either like that or hate it. At least the NbyNW 5.1 doesn't seem to add any effects like the Vertigo 5.1 does. Speaking of Vertigo I captured the analog from the old LD and plan to sync it also. Does the Criterion really come from a stereo print and not a mono? If you want a copy of either captainsolo, just PM me.

I started the GBU sync by filling the missing parts in from a fold down of the English extended 5.1 but I can also do it with filling in with the Italian mono. Incidentally that Italian mono is the loudest soundtrack I have ever heard. It is at least 10db louder then either the US 5.1 or the US LD mono. I will probably slow work on this since someone might be working on a project using the LD's PCM mono.

From what I heard, October's BD 5.1 soundtrack is pretty faithful to the Dolby Stereo of the LD. There might be the near field/far field differences but there is no major changes that I could hear.

Temple is awesome, that is why I wanted it to be my first soundtrack sync. Temple does have a few changes that thegriff noticed. When Indy leaves the spike trap the chanting/music builds up; unlike the DVD/BD that has the music jump right in. Also when Willie asks what's wrong with you to Indy, she stutters on the LD soundtrack but not in the DVD/BD. I thought that was an error on my part but I went back to original copy of the widescreen LD it was there. I then went to the the pan and scan LD and it is there also. Nothing special but still interesting. Anyway I have both Raiders and Crusade captured and will sync them in good time.

 A guide is a great idea. I have to see what I can write up. Any particular LD soundtrack you looking to sync? I'd love to know what LDs you have captainsolo.

TServo2049 said:

Speaking of crummy-sounding Dolby Stereo mixes, a suggestion: how about a rip of the 1993 Disney LD of The Muppet Movie to sync with the new Blu-ray?

Like Superman, TMM has a rather tinny, low-dynamic-range Dolby mix (the music-and-effects track heard on the foreign dubs actually had higher fidelity!), and it makes very little use of surrounds. There was one good use of them I know of - the movie starts in standard lo-fi center-channel mono, then when the movie within a movie starts, the sound field suddenly expands to full 4.0 as the music swells, and the rainbow and title appear. (I know I said the Dolby mix sounded lo-fi, but it's still definitely a wider dynamic range than Academy mono, evident as you first hear bells in the right channel as the rainbow sweeps into frame.)

The original mix was on the original DVD in 192kHz Dolby Digital, but I think it's still worth preserving lossless.

I'd being willing to sync it up if someone has the LD. Although it is a weak soundtrack its always nice to have the original.

Jonno said:

Hmmm... just received and captured Moonraker. Another disc mastered in 1990, another digital track with a -9dB ceiling. Why were these folks so reluctant to use the full range of the digital signal?

For now I'll resist the urge to normalise and edit it as-is - it's actually a very clear and clean track, and I guess folks' amps can fight it out with the limited volume.

That's also disappointing. Although in thinking about Moonraker it would be nice to do sync for all the James Bonds. Do the blu-rays have the original mono for the older ones.

dark_jedi said:

So where is this The Black Hole HD file? I have been wanting to do a BD of this forever! I friggin love watching this movie and have a real nice Intrada 24 track CD I just got, could make for a nice score.

I have the 1080p/24 copy that Jonno mentioned from itunes but it sounds like zeropc has a different (hopefully less compressed) copy. The itunes one is about 3.88 GB.

Tack said:

PDB said:

Tack said:

Alright, I gotta question. Could something like this be done for Bakshi's LOTR? To preserve the original narration.

I assume so. It has been a long time since I have seen the Bakshi LOTR, what was changed?

They changed the narration at the end. Originally, the narration played over the final shot, and was a very brief blurb that promised a sequel. The new narration cuts in right when Gandalf tosses up his sword in the end and makes it more standalone (since a Return of the King film was never produced). Also, the narrator of the new version is clearly different from the narrator of the rest of the film.

You have any of the materials needed for this fix?

Chewtobacca said:

For the extras scenes, I would rather have a mono downmix of the English DTS-HD MA than the Italian mono.  As far as I'm concerned, it's better to have the actors sound older than not sound like themselves.  If there is a remaster, however, I hope it's the US theatrical because that's my preferred cut of the film.

Yeah I think that is what I'm going to do

Tack said:

Alright, I gotta question. Could something like this be done for Bakshi's LOTR? To preserve the original narration.

I assume so. It has been a long time since I have seen the Bakshi LOTR, what was changed?

I just started work on syncing The Good, The Bad and The Ugly's widescreen mono PCM soundtrack to the Italian Mondo Blu-ray. I'm using Rigby Reardon's AVS script from this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1145562/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-comparison-pix/420

As the soundtrack to edit against since he did all the necessary editing. Does anyone have an opinion as to whether I should fill in the missing Italian scenes with the Italian mono or the English Dub (with old Clint and Eli)?

Also rumors of a re-master:

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=227798

ilovewaterslides said:

Movie: Back to the Future

Format: Laserdisc Widescreen NTSC

Input Soundtrack: Analog 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround, Not Bit Perfect

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround 48 khz, 16-bit

Synced To: HDTV 1080p Canal+ version

Ripped/Synced by: Ilovewaterslides

Notes: None

Movie: Back to the Future Part II

Format: Laserdisc Widescreen NTSC

Input Soundtrack: Analog 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround, Not Bit Perfect

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround 48 khz, 16-bit

Synced To: DXVA HDTV 1080p HDnet version

Ripped/Synced by: Ilovewaterslides

Notes: None

Movie: Back to the Future Part III

Format: Laserdisc Widescreen NTSC

Input Soundtrack: Analog 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround, Not Bit Perfect

Output Soundtrack: PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo Surround 48 khz, 16-bit

Synced To: DXVA HDTV 1080p HDnet version

Ripped/Synced by: Ilovewaterslides

Notes: None

Added to the list, thanks!

Jonno said:

Oh, and in other disappointment news it appears that there's no release of The Black Hole post 1985, so no digital PCM available. A pity - it seems there's a 720p version on US iTunes now, so that would have made for a good combo.

Ha like minds think alike. I looked at that old analog disc on ebay a few times but never pulled the trigger as it was analog. I wanted to hear that awesome John Barry score in Dolby Stereo. 

Jonno said:

I just did a rip of Superman the Movie using this disc. The current Blu has a lossy presentation of the Dolby Stereo mix, which sounds rather feeble - I thought laserdisc PCM would improve on it. I was wrong...

That's the bitperfect rip of side A in Audition - not only is it extremely quiet (peaking at around -9dB) but the fidelity is really very poor. I'm not inclined to take the time to sync this, but I won't delete the files just yet in case they're of use to someone.

More Superman mix info here, btw: http://andyfilm.com/mboard/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4192

That is disappointing. I was excited for a better copy of the original Dolby Stereo. Are you still going through with this, Jonno? Still would be nice to have a lossless copy.

Jonno said:

The preferred source for this mix is an earlier generation laserdisc (since aside from lossy compression the track has also had some 'improvements' made since 1999). I favour the 1992 collector's edition but there are others.

And I think I can help with that. I have this LD:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/10590/1090-80/Alien-(1979)

which I believe is the first laserdisc to have the soundtrack in digital PCM

and Dolby Stereo. So it would be closest to the original source.

So I completed my initial work on North By Northwest. I have synced the Criterion (CC1226L) mono which took 73 edits and the MGM (ML102228), which is stereo for the opening titles and then mono for the rest of the movie; it took 102 edits. Both are synced to the region A blu-ray.

I am going to watch the Criterion this weekend but I was wondering if there were any volunteers out there that would be willing to test out, this weekend, my sync for both of these soundtracks. With so many edits, I want to make sure everything turns out ok before I add it to the list. PM me. Thanks.