Not to crap on this,
Kind of sounds like it…
Richard Stamper said:
but the scanning colors are waaaaayyyy offf It all looks milky. Not the way the film actually looks in 35mm.
I think it looks pretty accurate
All the info on my projects is on fanres.com at the moment (previous page has more info).
I’m planning to release a color grading tool based on this methodology. The development will take a little time, as I’m preoccupied with a number of other projects, but I will keep you posted…
Sounds great. Can’t wait for it
Very cool stuff Dr Dre
Here’s the full comparison of the last part of the 16mm (top) vs 35mm (bottom):
http://dai.ly/kAKBVmvdr9zHatnh5xm
Hey cool comparison. Mind if I ask you where you got the 35mm video? I’d love to know…
I concur. Batch processing would be icing on the cake; making your great program that much better.
Sorry Coligion not in the near future. I have too many projects going on and I rather wait for a better color source so I can regrade it.
Sorry Flexicon, most of my updates end up here:
https://forum.fanres.com/thread-43.html?highlight=aliens
The video is done but I’m still syncing tracks. I got put behind finishing some other projects. Def earlier this year and then I start/continue working on Alien 3.
Very cool!
A release would be fantastic
Thanks Turisu. Yeah it looks like that for a few shots but later is more blue.
I haven’t been updating this thread with as much information as the one over at fanres. I finished the regrade of the video for the TV cut. (For those that forgot it is regrading the BD to the 1995 THX laserdisc)
Making the theatrical cut from that should be trivial. For the TV cut all there is left to do is sync the soundtracks: the 5.1, the LD PCM 2.0 (SE LD) and the soundtrack from the TV broadcast. The Theatrical will have the 4.1 from the BD and a PCM 2.0 (non-SE LD).
Here are some examples:
Original BD/Regraded BD
https://i.imgur.com/MJRZRx4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/mAjRa1v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/iu8X4sK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/zq93JVA.jpg
(Edit: That Alien queen/powerloader arm one is backwards with the regard first in the last batch)
Did you look at the link I posted? All those scenes are there.
Now I remember, I had a conversation with you regarding this, many months ago in spleen forums when you were just mulling over the idea. You said you were working on the project, but never heard from you till now. I see that you’ve already finished this project. That’s just great, from the pics I saw. Can you PM me a link, is that ok?
Sorry that wasn’t me, I’m not on the the Spleen forums. The project is put together but still has to be rendered again but I’ll let you know more when I get back to it (its in line behind a few other projects)
Already have it in hand but a new source is always welcomed.
Oh nice, had no idea you’d already done it, fantastic work! Would love a PM to what you’ve done so far.
Now we need to get BVS done…
Did you look at the link I posted? All those scenes are there.
Already have it in hand but a new source is always welcomed.
Have you seen the IMAX version? Just asking to confirm that’s all. Don’t mind.
Yes, saw it 3 times in IMAX.
I’m working on overlaying the Blu-Ray onto the Starz HDTV cap to improve the overall quality. Not as easy as i first thought it as. For the standard version they not only crop the image but it also moves up and down thought a shot, so i have to manually match each shot’s movements. One thing i noticed is that the two BB-8 shots inside the Falcon during the IMAX section are zoomed and cropped from the standard version.
Here are some comparisons:
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/185704
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/185705
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/185706
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/185707
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/185708
http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/185709And you can see a short video of part of the re-framing that had to be done so that the Blu-Ray video lined up with the IMAX footage. I had to do this manually too 😦
That’s not unusual for an Imax to pan and tilt like that if they didn’t keep the information center focused.
Sounds like you have this well in hand, adywan so I’m going to stop the work I was doing. Can’t wait to see the end rsults
That’s the transport stream from the Starz broadcast. I recorded it to get just the Imax sequence. It might be a future project but sadly the broadcast is highly compressed, so hopefully someone has a better source.
Here is what the Imax scene looks like in 1.78 from a recent HDTV broadcast
BD/Imax HDTV
Also that first pic, I took that ages ago and it gets everywhere
Ah, so you’re the originator? It’s been referenced on here by other members, never knew who the creator was. Also used here: http://notonbluray.com/blog/orange-and-teal/ is that your blog btw?
JayArgonaut it’s hard to get into mind of James Cameron. At different times and on different formats he seems to prefer a different color scale. BD looks amazing but there is too much blue/orange complementary color there for my taste (but again that was a popular choice in the 80s even though he chose it in 00s). I have Aliens on pretty much all formats and DVD color is pretty much close to what I get used to the most. The best option would be to have “original” (whichever it is) color version and optional new color regrade as an option on blu-ray.
Yeah, likewise with Lucas (who I’m convinced has gone insane), Spielberg and many many others who’ve pulled similar stunts. I’m driven to distraction by the endless home video revisions and perplexing choices. From the uncut 1:66.1 version of Robocop only being available on an OOP non-anamorphic 1999 DVD, to The Matrix receiving a re-colour so it matches the sequels.
Yeah I found a hd version of the DVD master and compared them, here I think
Not my blog, it may be a coincidence but it’s the same frame I tookI saw a 70mm print this year, it did not look anything like the BD at all.
So what is the closest color from available formats that you’d compare to 70mm screening?
The THX laser, is damn close the print was amazing
One of the many reasons I’m using the 95 THX Laserdisc as the source for my regrade. Thanks dvdmike
Watched this last night and loved it. My only concern, not a complaint, is the audio. My system is far from the best, but still a damn decent setup. Some of the early scenes were so bass heavy that they seemed to be be recorded with way too much gain resulting in clipping. It honestly was overbearing and muddy sounding. Again, not that big of a deal, just wondering what some of yalls opinions are.
I assume you are talking about the first track? That is an one for one copy of the laserdisc soundtrack. The reason why it is interesting and so bass heavy is because it was the track that was going to be used for a Sensurround release before Fox switch Alien over to Dolby SVA/70mm.
The rumor (from Disclord-RIP) goes that when Fox was remastering Alien in '95, it was the first time the movie would come with a AC-3/5.1 soundtrack on home video. After looking through the archives they found this track. Unfortunately or fortunately the track was a early test for the Sensurround format. So not only was it an early track with many small dialogue and sound effect changes but it was also super bass heavy for the Sensurround (I’m simplify this a bit). The track was so bass heavy that when the '99 DVD rolled around many people and reviews were disappoint in the lack of bass (the 99 track is another story).
So it is meant to be very, very bass heavy. The other two tracks should have more normal levels of bass and are closer to what was heard in the theaters with all the final sound refinements.
Can anyone explain why the 70mm track has been downmixed to a 4.1 mix? Didn’t even know there was such thing as 4.1.
Alex is right. The 70mm configuration at the time would be 3 front channels, two subs (aka Baby Booms) and one surround channel (most likely coming off multiple speakers). This would be a 4.2 in modern parlance, so the closest you could do is a 4.1 in a home theater environment. Later they dumped one of the subs and stereo-ized the surrounds getting us the modern 5.1.
Your surround system should duplicate the mono surround into 2 mono surrounds for a 5.1 setup. I just took the rear channel and duplicated it to the left and right so it becomes a 5.1 but still with mono surround.
PDB said:
I’m kind of surprised that everyone favors the laserdisc regrade. Is it because of the skin tones?I hope I’m not too late to chime in on this. 😃
I’ve found that most any re-imagined coloring can be slipped in without protests if the skin color remains recognizable. As a quick proof-of-concept, I bumped up the Red color-wheel saturation of the original Blu-ray (and nudged up a bit the surrounding Yellow and Magneta for a smoother blend into the rest of the spectrum).
[TOP ROW shows the original BD compared to the BD-regraded-to-LD]
[BOTTOM ROW shows the original BD with extra Red saturation compared again to the BD-regraded-to-LD]
It’s interesting that both bottom row pictures now look perfectly good, and the extra-Red even gives the original Blu-ray a more “up to date”-tech feel.
(Maybe I should go work for Peter Jackson, Ridley Scott, George Lucas, et al ?)
Actually you are right on time. I have been back working on this for a few months after starting over from scratch. I was originally looking for more 35mm sources but ultimately decided to use the 1995 LD, like I did with Alien. The reason being there was enough evidence to suggest that like Alien, the 95 Aliens LD was color timed to be pretty close to a theatrical print. Many 35mm pics that I could find matched the disc. This wasfurther backed up by dvdmike who saw a 70mm print and compared it to the 95 LD that he had.
I did alter my orginal LD capture based on advice from SpoRv/Andrea, who reminded me that the LDs sometimes have the saturation boosted for the older CRTs. So I reduced the cap’s saturation 15% to get it around the same levels as the BD/DVD/etc.
I forget how to post pics now but here is that shot, color corrected in my new regrade:
http://imgur.com/a/f0PMn
and here are more pics from the regrade (BD-Top/Regrade-Bottom):
http://imgur.com/a/jGl3i
http://imgur.com/a/wKY6z
I’m starting with re-creating the TV cut in HD and regraded to the LD and then maybe the theatrical cut.
Maybe you should work for them. Stop them from changing the colors in every release.
Yeah but no time soon. Got another Alien project id rather work on first. Odd that error wasn’t in 1.5 when people tested it.
To answer your other questions. 4.1 has some compatability issues on older receivers and some software even though it’s in the Dolby spec.
That’s why older ac3 track on lds and DVDs that weren’t pure 5.1(or 2.0) were still wrapped in 5.1 container with dupped or dead silence channels.
Also since in theaters a 70mm mono surround track would come from multiple speakers it should be fine to do as long as there is no cancellation
As for the chapters that’s a pure copy over from the BD and it just defaults the names like that. I can change it in the future
You are right on that one that is a mistake. Sigh. It pulled the lut from the previous shot.
I just finished it, too. It looks pretty good, though I noticed something weird at 32:19 - 32:20. The purplish tone switches suddenly to tealish. Also, in the first dinner/kitchen scene, some skin tones look as if the crew suffered from liver failure. And finally, a couple shots seamed almost monochromatic or black and white, like Ash running to get warmer or the outside shot of the [i]Nostromo[/i] taking off. Maybe all that is supposed to be that way, it’s just some stuff I noticed while watching it.
I’ve watched it with the “new” rare 5.1 audio track. Sounds pretty cool. Some lines were missing when they investigate the alien ship. I noticed that because it was subtitled anyway. And the line “Kane’s son” is barely audible.
All in all, thanks. It was nice to see it that way.
The blues in the LD range from a light powder blue (Nostromo taking off) to a deep purplish blue (detonation of the ship) and it can vary between the two like the egg scene. So that is right or at least consistent to the LD. Particular to the Nostromo taking off, the BD oddly hides in darkness almost all the model shots whereas the LD looks, like you said monochromatic blue (oxymoron I know).
As for the skins tone they are warmer/yellower then the BD (see the first couple pages in this thread before I was set on the LD), that is also consistent with the LD and actually one of the reasons I was happy to grade to it since the BD skin tones are too pale.
It basically a choice between the paler/cooler BD vs this saturated/warmer regrade
There is also a bit of discussion here too:
Just finished watching it. The colors definitely stand out. The one part that was jarring color-wise was the very end when Ripley shoots the alien outta the shuttle. The shots of Ripley had blue and yellow flashing while the shots of the alien (both in the doorway and then out in space) were very gray. I don’t know the exact colors of the film print itself so I’m guessing that was intentional.
The '95 dolby audio was also a new way to hear the film, as there were sound effects I never heard before, as well as more than a few audio cuts where one ended and another began (usually when shots would change to other areas with other members of the crew). Though to be fair, I’ve always remembered the sound of this film being a little weird to say the least. Like how when Parker and Lambert encounter the alien, Parker is clearly screaming, but the only sound is music. And Lambert’s final screams echoing throughout the corridors sounds like Ms. Cartwright did 7 takes and the sound editor used them all and layered them all over each other lol.
Anyway, I appreciate your efforts and can’t wait for Aliens next!!
Yeah that color changing was on the LD. If you go back to page 4 of this thread you can read my post discussing the red/orange coloring on Ripley. The BD has it in some shots but missing it in others. The alien on the BD is green toned but on the LD more gray like you said. The BD being more muted makes it less jarring against the alien shots but its oddly inconstant. Also of intest that change of tone does appear on other masters.
The LD really pushes the colors anytime someone is illuminated by control panels, like on the bridge for example. I actually toned down one shot since I thought people would complain too much.
Blast from the past. If anyone still remembers this project, the Alien part is now complete and up on the spleen and bt/br. Some more pics.
BR-top/Regrade-bottom
https://imgur.com/dKiVAQl
https://imgur.com/Ruyl8Kd
Video:
2010 Blu-Ray (Theatrical Cut) video color regraded to match the 1995 THX laserdisc. The home video the closest matchs a vintage 1979 35mm print.
Audio:
1995 Laserdisc Dolby Digital 5.1. This soundtrack is a rare 70mm mix that was used to test Alien in the Sensurround format before it was abandoned for conventional Dolby Stereo 70mm (track 2). This soundtrack was accidentally put on the 1995 laserdisc when it was thought it was the standard Dolby 70mm mix. It contains different sound effects, musical cues and dialogue. For example, it is missing the line “Kane’s Son”.
2010 Blu-Ray (Theatrical Cut) Dolby Digital 4.1 remixed to Dolby Digital 5.1 with dual mono surrounds. This soundtrack represents the original Dolby Stereo mix as heard in theaters on a 70mm film presentation.
1992 Laserdisc PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo/Surround. This soundtrack should be the closest to the original Dolby Stereo mix as heard in theaters on 35mm film.
