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DominicCobb

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16-Aug-2011
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20-Jan-2018
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Post
#1159743
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

darthrush said:

TV’s Frink said:

darthrush said:

SilverWook said:

So you’d torch the sacred texts without hesitation?

That’s the whole point of the scene. The books don’t matter, “Time to look past a pile of old books” Yoda says. He reminds Luke that the inert desire for every person to do good and use their powers to save others and to learn from failure is all that truly matters. Not the old dogmatic teachings of the jedi. And that is precisely the first thing I’ll be cutting out of the film is the books at the end on the falcon.

And no offense, but this is one of the reasons I probably won’t be watching any TLJ edits. Everyone wants to cut out things I thought were great.

Alongside that, I think the idea of having Luke burn down the tree is terrible.

I guess we can agree to strongly disagree here 😃

I really feel like that was the point of the scene. I do agree with you technically on one thing and that’s that Luke definitely should have not burned the tree in that moment. Mainly because it would be out of anger and him simply feeling that this will help him “kill the past”. Yoda does burn the tree, but it’s not because he wants to kill the past. He knows what actually matters and wants Luke to look past just a pile of old books and instead look to learn from his past and to cherish his failures and how they have helped him. This is a contrast to Kylo killing the past. And that is ultimately why I feel the books at the end on the Falcon are just another pointless cheap fake out that aren’t worth putting in the film.

But I have discussed this before and definitely see where your coming from! I just interpreted the same content a bit differently I suppose.

Even though I said I wouldn’t say more about this…

I don’t think it’s a fake out. That scene doesn’t change in retrospect, Yoda’s lesson remains. But the shot of Rey saving the books is important, but to Rey’s story. It shows that she will learn for herself, and that she won’t completely kill the past like Kylo.

Post
#1159486
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Collipso said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Collipso, I wanted to talk about the point you raised concerning the “quick, and easy path” in comparison to how the sequel trilogy handled such a topic when it came to light and dark sides of the force.

It really does present a big thematic issue for the ST, which is that Kylo Ren seems to be taking the most grueling and challenging path possible to where he gets. On the contrary it seems Rey has some pretty smooth riding. And this definitely is an issue for me. It doesn’t seem that Rey struggles much with the Dark Side unlike Luke in the OT.

But I did want to point out something I really did like about what Johnson did with the force in episode 8 and it’s how he redefined it to be more about opposing philosophizes between the light and dark rather than just a power that tempts you. Kylo simply wants to rule the galaxy as he sees fit just like Vader in ESB, and Rey feels that is not the right way to use her powers. This feels like a more realistic depiction of what the actual light and dark side would be.

I think you’re misinterpreting that Yoda quote and those characters’ journeys.

Care to elaborate more? I’m interested in all the takes on this.

First of all it must be said that we don’t know the full story behind Snoke turning Ben to the dark. But we see the power he possesses as Kylo Ren, which is far more than anything Rey does (freeze blaster bolts, people, reads their minds, etc.). If he wanted a quick and easy way besides Luke’s training regimen to unlock some crazy powers, the dark side gave him that way. Important to note too that the dark side uses pain as a fuel.

The thing is though that when Yoda said that he was referring to Luke’s situation, and though people compare Rey to Luke their journeys are actually completely different. Luke wanted to learn the force and become a Jedi like his father. To do that he had to face Vader. The quick and easy way to defeat Vader is by using anger and hate. Like almost does this, but resists. That’s the moment he truly becomes a Jedi, when he’s able to move beyond the temptation to the dark that consumed his father and cast his weapon aside.

Rey’s story is simply not analogous. The temptation to the dark for her is just not the same. She never says that she wants to become a Jedi and learn the force. The force has always been there for her (we see it in her reflexes even before she touches the saber, just like Anakin). What she desires is connection, and for someone to show her her place . It’s not about learning how to use the force, it’s about learning in what way to use it, to what end. When Luke goes into the cave, he sees his ultimate challenge, just like Rey. But for Rey, it’s not a literal physical challenge, it’s an emotional one. The quicker and easier path for her isn’t about achieving power in the force, it’s about finding someone to guide her. When Kylo offers his hand, that’s the quick and easy path. He’s saying “come with me, I can show you your place in this.” It’s right there for her, a teacher, but it’s also companionship. But instead she chooses the hard way - to say no and to forge her own path, scary as that may be.

I hope that makes sense.

It does make sense. Do you think it was clear (if intended) or well executed?

90% yes. TLJ (and TFA) make this all pretty clear in terms of what her motivations and insecurities are.

The 10% is for when she lifts the rocks at the end, but only because of the way it is portrayed (not the fact that she does it). I have ideas for how that could have been done better but a lot depends on how they frame where Rey is in IX.

Post
#1159484
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Collipso, I wanted to talk about the point you raised concerning the “quick, and easy path” in comparison to how the sequel trilogy handled such a topic when it came to light and dark sides of the force.

It really does present a big thematic issue for the ST, which is that Kylo Ren seems to be taking the most grueling and challenging path possible to where he gets. On the contrary it seems Rey has some pretty smooth riding. And this definitely is an issue for me. It doesn’t seem that Rey struggles much with the Dark Side unlike Luke in the OT.

But I did want to point out something I really did like about what Johnson did with the force in episode 8 and it’s how he redefined it to be more about opposing philosophizes between the light and dark rather than just a power that tempts you. Kylo simply wants to rule the galaxy as he sees fit just like Vader in ESB, and Rey feels that is not the right way to use her powers. This feels like a more realistic depiction of what the actual light and dark side would be.

I think you’re misinterpreting that Yoda quote and those characters’ journeys.

Care to elaborate more? I’m interested in all the takes on this.

First of all it must be said that we don’t know the full story behind Snoke turning Ben to the dark. But we see the power he possesses as Kylo Ren, which is far more than anything Rey does (freeze blaster bolts, people, reads their minds, etc.). If he wanted a quick and easy way besides Luke’s training regimen to unlock some crazy powers, the dark side gave him that way. Important to note too that the dark side uses pain as a fuel.

The thing is though that when Yoda said that he was referring to Luke’s situation, and though people compare Rey to Luke their journeys are actually completely different. Luke wanted to learn the force and become a Jedi like his father. To do that he had to face Vader. The quick and easy way to defeat Vader is by using anger and hate. Like almost does this, but resists. That’s the moment he truly becomes a Jedi, when he’s able to move beyond the temptation to the dark that consumed his father and cast his weapon aside.

Rey’s story is simply not analogous. The temptation to the dark for her is just not the same. She never says that she wants to become a Jedi and learn the force. The force has always been there for her (we see it in her reflexes even before she touches the saber, just like Anakin). What she desires is connection, and for someone to show her her place . It’s not about learning how to use the force, it’s about learning in what way to use it, to what end. When Luke goes into the cave, he sees his ultimate challenge, just like Rey. But for Rey, it’s not a literal physical challenge, it’s an emotional one. The quicker and easier path for her isn’t about achieving power in the force, it’s about finding someone to guide her. When Kylo offers his hand, that’s the quick and easy path. He’s saying “come with me, I can show you your place in this.” It’s right there for her, a teacher, but it’s also companionship. But instead she chooses the hard way - to say no and to forge her own path, scary as that may be.

I hope that makes sense.

Never mind to what I said about not liking Rey in my last post cause this is an outstanding explanation for her character struggles.

Thank you for the analysis! I never looked at her journey in that way and how her challenge in the cave contrasts with Luke.

I honestly think a lot of issues people have with Rey stem from trying to align her story with Luke’s. And the do align in a broad sense, but you have to pay attention to the differences in the similar beats to see how her motivations and conflicts are actually quite different.

For instance, when she goes to see Ben to save him, one might think it’s a parallel to Luke going to Vader in ROTJ. But it’s closer to Luke going to Vader in ESB in terms of where the characters are at. Luke goes to Dagobah to become a Jedi hero. When he goes to face Vader and save his friends, he thinks he’s being a hero (and fails). Rey goes to Ahch-to to find someone to guide her and to save the Resitance. When she goes to Ben, that’s exactly what she thinks she’s going to get (but like Luke she fails).

Post
#1159470
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

darthrush said:

Collipso, I wanted to talk about the point you raised concerning the “quick, and easy path” in comparison to how the sequel trilogy handled such a topic when it came to light and dark sides of the force.

It really does present a big thematic issue for the ST, which is that Kylo Ren seems to be taking the most grueling and challenging path possible to where he gets. On the contrary it seems Rey has some pretty smooth riding. And this definitely is an issue for me. It doesn’t seem that Rey struggles much with the Dark Side unlike Luke in the OT.

But I did want to point out something I really did like about what Johnson did with the force in episode 8 and it’s how he redefined it to be more about opposing philosophizes between the light and dark rather than just a power that tempts you. Kylo simply wants to rule the galaxy as he sees fit just like Vader in ESB, and Rey feels that is not the right way to use her powers. This feels like a more realistic depiction of what the actual light and dark side would be.

I think you’re misinterpreting that Yoda quote and those characters’ journeys.

Care to elaborate more? I’m interested in all the takes on this.

First of all it must be said that we don’t know the full story behind Snoke turning Ben to the dark. But we see the power he possesses as Kylo Ren, which is far more than anything Rey does (freeze blaster bolts, people, reads their minds, etc.). If he wanted a quick and easy way besides Luke’s training regimen to unlock some crazy powers, the dark side gave him that way. Important to note too that the dark side uses pain as a fuel.

The thing is though that when Yoda said that he was referring to Luke’s situation, and though people compare Rey to Luke their journeys are actually completely different. Luke wanted to learn the force and become a Jedi like his father. To do that he had to face Vader. The quick and easy way to defeat Vader is by using anger and hate. Like almost does this, but resists. That’s the moment he truly becomes a Jedi, when he’s able to move beyond the temptation to the dark that consumed his father and cast his weapon aside.

Rey’s story is simply not analogous. The temptation to the dark for her is just not the same. She never says that she wants to become a Jedi and learn the force. The force has always been there for her (we see it in her reflexes even before she touches the saber, just like Anakin). What she desires is connection, and for someone to show her her place . It’s not about learning how to use the force, it’s about learning in what way to use it, to what end. When Luke goes into the cave, he sees his ultimate challenge, just like Rey. But for Rey, it’s not a literal physical challenge, it’s an emotional one. The quicker and easier path for her isn’t about achieving power in the force, it’s about finding someone to guide her. When Kylo offers his hand, that’s the quick and easy path. He’s saying “come with me, I can show you your place in this.” It’s right there for her, a teacher, but it’s also companionship. But instead she chooses the hard way - to say no and to forge her own path, scary as that may be.

I hope that makes sense.

Post
#1159455
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

darthrush said:

Collipso, I wanted to talk about the point you raised concerning the “quick, and easy path” in comparison to how the sequel trilogy handled such a topic when it came to light and dark sides of the force.

It really does present a big thematic issue for the ST, which is that Kylo Ren seems to be taking the most grueling and challenging path possible to where he gets. On the contrary it seems Rey has some pretty smooth riding. And this definitely is an issue for me. It doesn’t seem that Rey struggles much with the Dark Side unlike Luke in the OT.

But I did want to point out something I really did like about what Johnson did with the force in episode 8 and it’s how he redefined it to be more about opposing philosophizes between the light and dark rather than just a power that tempts you. Kylo simply wants to rule the galaxy as he sees fit just like Vader in ESB, and Rey feels that is not the right way to use her powers. This feels like a more realistic depiction of what the actual light and dark side would be.

I think you’re misinterpreting that Yoda quote and those characters’ journeys.

Post
#1159004
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Collipso said:

EDIT: so after reading through the thread since my last post, I guess it comes down to your interpretation. One can interpret what Obi-Wan said in a way, and others naturally in others. I too, like Warb, thought Yoda had created the lighting out of thin air. It’s not something I really have a problem with anyway, just a huge 6 page discussion over a minor nitpick. Then again, this is the Star Wars fan base.

I don’t know how you can say he conjured it out of thin air when the movie makes it a point to show it coming from storm clouds. You can’t just ignore something that’s right there in the movie.

As for how this has blown into a huge discussion, well let’s not forget about Luke force choking, at least this debate is on topic!

Post
#1158998
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Valheru_84 said:

TV’s Frink said:

Val if you truly feel people are still harassing and attacking you, you should probably just report it. I don’t think it will get you far, since I don’t see it in the slightest, but that’s probably more likely to do something than just complaining about it here.

I did not say anyone was attacking me, but the fact that you and Dominic have to chime in with off topic jabs after each time I post something new in discussing what I don’t like about the movie is starting to wear a bit thin and I do feel harassed so please stop it.

This is not the first time you’ve called me out for something I haven’t done. Instead of stooping to your level, this time I’ve just decided to report you.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1158921
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

On my second 70mm IMAX viewing I realized we finally saw an older FO officer, the captain of the dreadnought. He could have been an imperial officer in the OT era. Also noticed some female FO officers. Were there any in TFA?

Another FO chap also looked a lot like the late Admiral Piett.

There are at least a couple female officers in TFA (and at least one middle aged officer). There are also some female stormtroopers in there, don’t know if that’s true for TLJ also because none of them speak (another ESB rehash).

Post
#1158860
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

The problem, warb (and others), is there’s some ambiguity and you’re taking that ambiguity and assuming automatically that it must be an inconsistency, whereas you could just as easily explore all the other possible explanations for it. Just because it’s not explained doesn’t mean it’s unexplainable. Movies, and Star Wars especially, are all about the possible, not the impossible. So to go right to the latter is essentially watching it wrong.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1158821
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

Notice that Yoda didn’t conjure the lightning out of thin air. Plus it’s possible that Force Ghosts have more power in places that are powerful in the force.

Not to mention that Obi-wan doesn’t make it clear that he is physically unable to help. It can be easily interpreted to mean “this is a challenge you must face as an individual,” much like when Yoda had Luke go in the cave by himself.

Post
#1158504
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

suspiciouscoffee said:

joefavs said:

CHEWBAKAspelledwrong said:

Last Jedi retailer exclusive packaging for BD (and 4k!) leaks. Hopefully the standard release just has theatrical release art as with TFA and RO.

http://www.thedigitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/011218-1500

Here’s the standard art:

Wtf is a “multi screen edition” and is there a normal edition without the lame border? Also, the last two SW movies included a DVD with the Blu-Ray, so why stop now? Is it just no longer worth it for them to print more DVDs?

I’m skeptical that that cover is legit. The official Target and Best Buy images seem to include DVDs.

Post
#1158176
Topic
Han's Death Rescored
Time

darthrush said:

DominicCobb said:

I’m personally not a huge fan of reusing old music unless I have to (especially in this case where the pieces are somewhat similar), though it does work well.

Have you put any thought to rescoring the next bit with John Williams’s alternate piece for that scene?

I have no qualms reusing prequel music since I don’t consider them in my own head canon. So this probably mainly applies to people like myself who don’t really watch the PT in marathons.

I’ll be using prequel music in the Last Jedi too. My idea is basically to utilize the best music of the PT in moments where the ST just has better scenes and deserve better music. So I already have around 3 TLJ scenes that will be rescored with prequel music.

Fair enough. I think the ST music is just fine, but I can imagine some benefits to an approach like this.

darthrush said:

Cobb, Im also curious where I can find this alternate piece and what the track name is?

No track name as it hasn’t been officially released, just ripped from the TFA blu-ray special features.

You can hear it here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rgkFKt-6rcE

This post has been edited.

Post
#1157722
Topic
The Last Jedi: Official Review and Opinions Thread ** SPOILERS **
Time

adywan said:

At all 4 showings i went to so far for TLJ, every joke got a laugh. Not just by one or two, but by most attending. At the midnight showing, the laughs were louder because the cinema was packed, same with the second showing. When the cinema is less packed the laughter can be quieter or when there are not many in there, people can be a little self conscious and tend not to laugh as much or as loudly, if at all. Happens with every film. The jokes in TLJ worked perfectly fine.

Yep, my first two screenings had a lot of laughter (almost too much). My second two had barely any, but that’s because there was barely anyone there (I was purposefully going to less busy showtimes).

Ultimately if someone else laughs or not doesn’t change whether I think a joke is funny, which I thought most of the jokes in TLJ were.

One thing i have to say since seeing the 2D presentation though is, i take back everything i said about Yoda. What the hell did they do in the 3D conversion? Did they overscrub the grain or something? Yoda, in the 3D presentations looked very smooth and almost waxy. Yet the 2D showing he looked amazing. Just like ESB Yoda. The only thing i noticed was the the puppeteer closed the mouth too tight and caused the face to squash, giving it a strange puffy look a couple of times. But that was the only thing that looked off in the 2D showing. In fact , effects wise, the whole film looked better in 2D

That’s interesting. I haven’t seen it in 3D, maybe I will if I go again, just out of curiosity.

Also, potentially fun fact, I believe I read that Frank Oz was doing the puppeteering.

This post has been edited.

Post
#1157200
Topic
Episode VIII : The Last Jedi - Discussion * <strong><em>SPOILER THREAD</em></strong> *
Time

SilverWook said:

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

DominicCobb said:

joefavs said:

Closest IMAX laser system is the better part of two hours away from me. I’ve been thinking about making the pilgrimage for the last couple weeks but I haven’t found the time yet. I really hope I make it out there while it’s still playing.

There’s one in Reading, don’t know how far your are from there. I’ve never been but I’ve heard it’s a good one, though you have to walk through a Jordan’s Furniture to get to it.

That’s the one I’m talking about. I’m out in Fitchburg, so it’s a ways to go for a movie. Boston’s got one coming in, but I doubt it will be open while TLJ is still playing. Maybe for Solo.

Ideally one day every IMAX screen will be laser (hell, every standard screen too).

Can we keep the few still rocking with 70mm film? I’m not stuck on a really late train into San Jose right now for the fun of it! 😉

Of course, but who knows how long those will stay around, unfortunately.

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