DominicCobb

Yes, since the new dialogue refers to a general feeling and choice that Leia made over time (rather than a specific moment of premonition and decision), a more general statement of timeframe is more fitting that setting the scene to a specific night (but yes perhaps there is the potential for confusion).

I’m liking this new line. And that AI voice is an incredible match.

DZ-330 said:

Here is another stab at it:

Luke: “I started to train her. Leia was quick to learn, but she knew she could better serve the galaxy with diplomacy, as our mother once did. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, it would be picked up again by someone who would finish her journey. A thousand generations live in you now. We’ll always be with you, but this is your fight.”

I’d REALLY like leaving the Padme reference if we can. It would be the only time she is referenced in the ST and it would be nice to include as this is the finale to the whole Skywalker Saga.

I tend to agree re: Padme. I think your new line is a good way to get across her skill while making the amount of training even more vague. I’d probably reword the first sentence to “I had begun to train her.”

Burbin said:

DominicCobb said:

Burbin said:

I mean, yeah, the dialogue doesn’t present it as a failure, but it doesn’t take much to come to that conclusion, why did she pick politics when she would’ve been much more helpful as a Jedi?

Well the idea that a Jedi is much more helpful is not really a point of fact. Seems more like Leia sought out Luke when she realized the Resistance wouldn’t be enough to stop the First Order alone. And even if the Jedi were around, they alone wouldn’t be enough either, they needed the Resistance too, and that came from Leia.

In TFA both the Resistance and First Order believe that Luke’s return alone would change the tide of the battle, even though TLJ does bring this into question, the fact is Leia could’ve done more against the Fist Order as a Jedi than as a senator. The New Republic failed to take action and the Resistance was a last ditch effort to combat this emerging threat.

It’s not like Leia being a Jedi would have nipped the First Order completely in the bud. Like you say, Luke was supposed to turn the tide of the battle. A battle being fought by the Resistance. Leia created the Resistance through the New Republic. If you’re suggesting the only thing the Resistance accomplished in the end was bringing the Jedi back, I don’t think the films support that. There wouldn’t be a victory at Exegol if not for the Resistance.

Even if you think that the choice Leia made was all for naught, in the end, it was the choice she made, and that’s not really something that we can change about the film. I don’t see how getting a premonition would fix anything. At least in this version she retains the agency in the choice we already assumed.

What good did her diplomacy do to the New Republic that was obliterated two movies ago?

Again this is a decision we already know that Leia has made going on two movies at this point. Unless the issue is with the specific phrasing of “best serve the galaxy,” I don’t see how this line changes anything.

Before this movie we aren’t given any indication Leia was ever anything close to a Jedi, she seemed to be in the same place we left her in RotJ, naturally in tune with the Force without any formal training, her space walk in TLJ is closer to Luke pulling the lightsaber on the Wampa cave, which he did before any real Jedi training. It would’ve been fine if they stuck to that but in TROS she suddenly had all this Jedi training that she chose to never use, so there needs to be a reason for that. The film decided the reason was that if she picked up a lightsaber her son would die, which is ridiculous, so I think there needs to be something equivalent to replace that.

Well, first of all, the new line suggested is saying that she started training, but never finished. To me that would answer your question a lot better. Why didn’t she help with all this training? Well, she actually didn’t have a whole lot.

It almost just seems like you’re going in circles poking holes in everything. It’s a flawed script we’re working with here. Nothing is going to be perfect. If you don’t think her son dying is a good explanation either I’m curious then what you think should be the line, if anything.

I didn’t really take “diplomacy” to mean that Luke’s Jedi weren’t diplomatic, just that she wanted to remain a diplomat/politician. If there’s another word to use sure, but I don’t know what.

Burbin said:

DominicCobb said:

Burbin said:

This is mostly just an issue with TROS since there was never any indication in the previous films that Leia had been trained as a Jedi, other than the space walk in TLJ and even that’s a stretch.

It would be an interesting angle if Leia’s decision was portrayed as a failure, but this is supposed to be a hopeful scene, “Leia failed the galaxy and doomed us all by choosing a career in politics” doesn’t fit a scene that is supposed to restore Rey’s spirit. To be fair neither does a premonition of death but that’s why we removed that bit.

I don’t think this dialogue really invites you to think of it as a failure, it’s not really saying anything we don’t already know/suspect about her (since TFA really, because we know she must have made that choice after Luke revealed her potential). Which I think is kind of the goal, it’s maybe a bit much to add some Leia lore (with premonitions or something) when there’s not really any time to explore its implications.

I mean, yeah, the dialogue doesn’t present it as a failure, but it doesn’t take much to come to that conclusion, why did she pick politics when she would’ve been much more helpful as a Jedi?

Well the idea that a Jedi is much more helpful is not really a point of fact. Seems more like Leia sought out Luke when she realized the Resistance wouldn’t be enough to stop the First Order alone. And even if the Jedi were around, they alone wouldn’t be enough either, they needed the Resistance too, and that came from Leia.

What good did her diplomacy do to the New Republic that was obliterated two movies ago?

Again this is a decision we already know that Leia has made going on two movies at this point. Unless the issue is with the specific phrasing of “best serve the galaxy,” I don’t see how this line changes anything.

This movie already added Leia lore by having her training with Luke and teaching Rey, I’m just looking for a way this can be nudged so it aligns with what we saw of her before.

I don’t really see a functional difference between Leia testing out being a Jedi and not even wanting to try to be a Jedi when the result is the same, that for decades she has not been a Jedi.

Leia being Rey’s master doesn’t seem that big a deal. More like she is helping out with her training with what little she knows. Rey calling her master is more out of respect than anything.

PsyGemini said:

Burbin said:

I think the big issue with Leia choosing politics over being a Jedi is that it comes off as a terribly foolish decision. In the end, diplomacy failed; by the time we meet her in TFA she’s leading an underground militia, and her sole hope lies on Luke’s return to help in the fight.

I don’t think anyone likes the direction they took with the story

You must not get out a lot

Burbin said:

This is mostly just an issue with TROS since there was never any indication in the previous films that Leia had been trained as a Jedi, other than the space walk in TLJ and even that’s a stretch.

It would be an interesting angle if Leia’s decision was portrayed as a failure, but this is supposed to be a hopeful scene, “Leia failed the galaxy and doomed us all by choosing a career in politics” doesn’t fit a scene that is supposed to restore Rey’s spirit. To be fair neither does a premonition of death but that’s why we removed that bit.

I don’t think this dialogue really invites you to think of it as a failure, it’s not really saying anything we don’t already know/suspect about her (since TFA really, because we know she must have made that choice after Luke revealed her potential). Which I think is kind of the goal, it’s maybe a bit much to add some Leia lore (with premonitions or something) when there’s not really any time to explore its implications.

DZ-330 said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

If we were to go for the politics explanation route, then I at the very least agree that it being “the last night of her training” needs to be replaced with something else. Make it clear that she didn’t train for that long with him.

This is why I had suggested this instead:

Luke: “I started to train her, but Leia was reluctant to follow the Jedi Path. She knew she could better serve the galaxy and its people through diplomacy, like our mother once did. She surrendered her saber to me and said that one day, it would be picked up again by someone who would finish her journey. A thousand generations live in you now. We’ll always be with you, but this is your fight.”

Yeah I like that. Leaving Ben out of it might be for the best, because it’s kind of weird for her whether it’s his death or birth she’s sensing.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

Hmm, I guess Rey’s lines to Finn and Luke imply it was one vision. I think you’re right, probably a better phrase for him to say that captures her struggle.

I like your line “Leia understood the weight of the darkness that pressed upon you,” in the abstract, but wonder if it’s a bit too long/wordy. Maybe something “Leia knew of the darkness you struggled with.”

You’re right. Simplicity usually wins:
https://youtu.be/54n0B4FN6qE?si=iCjzVn3gT2UTtLH0

EDIT: Link has been corrected. For real this time.

Yeaah that’s good.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

Yes, but the problem is that the film gives the impression that she only had 1 dark vision. And by the time she has the one, Leia has already been training her for a year. It’s much more compelling if she’s known for that entire year that she grapples with the dark side but still chose to train her because of her spirit and heart.

Hmm, I guess Rey’s lines to Finn and Luke imply it was one vision. I think you’re right, probably a better phrase for him to say that captures her struggle.

I like your line “Leia understood the weight of the darkness that pressed upon you,” in the abstract, but wonder if it’s a bit too long/wordy. Maybe something “Leia knew of the darkness you struggled with.”

RogueLeader said:

Speaking of the Luke stuff, I think there is a way to get these ideas across without straying very far from what he already says and making feel new dialogue feel out of place.

Luke: Because you’re a Palpatine [cut for Rey Nobody, but honestly you could cut it for both versions and focus on the dark vision if you wanted]

Luke: Leia knew it, too. [or] Leia saw it, too. (for the Rey Nobody version but could work for both)

Luke: Because she saw your spirit, your heart. She knew, because some things are stronger than blood.

(This is just my opinion but I feel like Luke’s following guidance would work better to me more about Rey’s personal journey rather than focusing on her physical one. It can work both ways, but this feels more like personal guidance from a father figure and less like orders from a general)

Luke: Confronting fear is the destiny of a Jedi. Your destiny. If you don’t face it, it will mean the end of the Jedi. And you will be lost.
(I also feel like you could replace “your destiny” with “always” or “a constant struggle” to tie better into the theme of “bringing back the balance” and balance not being permanent, but something that must be maintained)

I think at one point someone pitched Luke saying “Leia saw your dark vision(s) too.” Slightly awkward wording maybe, but straight to the point and would work for Rey Palpatine or Rey Nobody.

“You’ll take both sabers to Exegol” also feels like a very forced statement from a script standpoint. Even though we are often adding dialogue to clarify plot details for other scenes, I feel like in this case Luke’s dialogue would feel more natural if most of what he was saying was more general, which in effect feels more personal. But I have to admit I do like DZ’s version that mentions their mother! A nice callback that would help make this final film feel full circle. The wording of that version is very nice as well.

I think it was suggested at one point to remove the “you’ll take both sabers line,” don’t remember if Hal did that, but I think it’s a good change, regardless if you replace it with anything. He’s kind of stating the obvious in a way, but also it allows for a little “oh I forgot about that” surprise when Rey lights it up later.

Dom, I may need to be PM you, but my ideas regarding tying up Finn’s arc are very similar to yours. I also have some ideas to expand on that theme of cycles repeating, which I may share on the Sequel Trilogy thread.

DM away, please!

Jar Jar Bricks said:

I’m going to echo DZ’s concerns on that last one. I think a lot of people are using Rekindled because they can’t stand that Rose scene at the end.

That’s a much more suitable replacement, DZ.

I honestly wasn’t sure what he meant by mentioning Rekindled so thanks for clarifying. Personally I don’t have an issue with that scene (besides the kiss that went nowhere) and have never watched Rekindled so I’d prefer my version obviously, although I get why some might want something different (does Legendary have that scene?).

“Belong” is a good callback, although might confuse anyone who hasn’t seen that scene or doesn’t remember it, it doesn’t seem as intuitive a phrase for him to say in the moment.

RogueLeader said:

DominicCobb said:
Do you have a Finn by any chance? I’m dying for a Finn.

I have not made one yet but I’ve already planned to. Lmk if you have something particular in mind, because the type of sample you make depends on what you want him to say.

Basically 3 ideas, all trying to tie in better with TFA/TLJ, and also trying to boost Rose a bit.

• “Where’s Rose when you need her.” when they’re working on the busted Falcon before crash landing on Kef Bir. Either on that first shot of smoking panel or a couple secs later off screen under his breath when Rey is staring into the distance before she says “He killed my mother…”
• “We need to fight them. All of us.” or something like that. A final line to cap off her conversation with Jannah on the Falcon, try to bring his arc full circle from TFA (“there is no fight against the First Order”) through his growth in TLJ and try to show some sense of inspiring these stormtroopers for later. Could be difficult to place, would need to manufacture a new reaction shot of Jannah.
• “Rose, let me save you this time.” instead of the vaguely patronizing “Rose, please” during the final battle when he wants them to leave without him

And then I actually have an ambitious idea that probably wouldn’t work, which is to, at the end of the Exegol battle, as it transitions into the planet montage, continue Finn’s dialogue. In the film he says “people are rising up all over the galaxy,” and then while we see the planets we’d hear him say “We’ve sent everyone a message. Whenever evil rises, there will always be good people to face it.” Which would hopefully bring some resolution to the dropped thread from the first two films of the repeating cycles of good vs. evil and such.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Luke sounds absolutely AMAZING. Here is a way we can reintegrate Leia having known about Rey’s struggle with the dark side:
https://youtu.be/70vGJBB7YMQ?si=cK7ZOptoAtGYwtbD

And here is a line to give Leia some closure with the Jedi that makes sense in canon:
https://youtu.be/QM-xl2GirK8?si=QiRJpNAiBfeDP8-R

I’m using default TROS for both of these examples just for ease of use. v4 is shaping up to be pretty epic though.

This is sounding really good. Not sold on the lines specifically, but I’ll have a think.

RogueLeader said:

I’ve been wanting to experiment with some techniques for voice cloning, so I played around with some new versions of the lines under discussion. I haven’t watched V3 so I can’t recall how they compare to the current ones, but I tried to get it to match as close as possible to the surrounding dialogue.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/15GjpiX28aV-o9IX9cEWnyjWi008w7dFQ

That “family’s saber” line is excellent. I believe that’s the sentence I’ve wanted her to say since what like, Dec 2019? Hopefully it fits well.

Do you have a Finn by any chance? I’m dying for a Finn.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

The original AI Kylo line which mentions a clone sounds like 90% there now:

https://youtu.be/_jqCt9AEKIc?si=wNtouPpATk2eFLEx

Since it sounds so close to his other lines we could also replace “What could you… give me?”

I wasn’t sold on this before but now I’m really digging it. I think you’re right that replacing the whole thing is probably best, it’s so close that that’s probably going to be easier than fiddling with EQ levels to get a match.

StarkillerAG said:

I really like the idea behind the “clone” line (I think we need an explicit confirmation of how Palps survived for the movie to make sense), and the AI voice is literally seamless. But still, I get why a few people are put off by the specific phrasing. In my opinion, it isn’t the presence of the word “clone” that makes it feel awkward, but how it’s used. Putting it at the end of the sentence just feels awkward somehow, like it doesn’t really flow poetically.

So, as an alternate suggestion, how about this:
“You’re a clone, in a rotting body.”

It’s just as terse and Kylo-esque as the original, and gets the clone info across just as well, but somehow just “feels” better to my ears. Your mileage may vary, though.

The issue is that that means a different thing. The implication should be that this is the Palpatine we know, transferred into a new body. Change the wording too much and it just seems like he’s a straight up copy (and maybe that’s what you want, but personally I like the other way).

I’m a fan of the “Rey killed her parents” idea for sure, but I figured to start off at least I would continue down the dark vision route. It still seems the path of least resistance. But I’d be very interested to see what someone might come up with, and if not I might eventually take a crack at it if no one else does.

PMs have been sent, let me know if I missed anyone.

I’ve been really off of editing for awhile now, very busy. But I did some pretty significant AI dialogue work in force bond duel scene, changing maybe 80% of the dialogue. My adobe subscription isn’t active at the moment to share a clip, but I’ve been thinking about returning to the edit soon.

Jar Jar Bricks said:

DominicCobb said:

Maybe there will be a way to do a 2 in 1 edit with this and TROS to make a better Episode IX, or replace IX completely.

I had a similar thought. A 16 year time gap from TLJ to this wouldn’t be completely unprecedented. Episodes 1 to 2 have 10 years, for example. If you removed TROS, you’d just need the crawl for the new movie to do the heavy lifting. Something about the First Order getting toppled thanks to Luke’s final stand.

The biggest problem for a 2 in 1 would be giving a satisfying finish to Kylo Ren. And obviously the First Order wouldn’t exist in this new film. Maybe you could cut all of Palps out of IX, and use some AI dialogue to have the characters be after something else. Let the film play out all the way to Rey and Kylo’s duel on Exegol and his redemption. Then we could have Rey go to Ahch-To, but instead of having her go to Exegol to defeat Palpatine (who wouldn’t exist in this edit), we would use footage from this new movie intercut with the TROS finale. Idk, I’m just spitballing.

Yeah a lot will depend on what actually happens in the movie. The long gap might not be so obvious/explicit. The real issue will be Kylo/the First Order, you could argue TLJ provides decent wrap ups for Poe and Finn.

Ultimately the simplest solution might just be using a scene to swap in for a new ending.

Maybe there will be a way to do a 2 in 1 edit with this and TROS to make a better Episode IX, or replace IX completely.

That’s a pretty good line, although would we care that Kylo hasn’t necessarily seen her saber yet? I guess she has it on her belt.

RogueLeader said:

I feel like he wouldn’t comment on it until he actually saw it, like when they first clash sabers in his chambers. Unless he is just gonna talk about the physical modifications she made to it. I think Kylo actually says something in that moment while they’re holding their sabers against each other, so it could be a good spot.

Since the voice AI tool is allowing us to not having to trim as much and make the edit more seamless, I think the voice AI stuff would have a significant benefit during the chamber duel in regards to a Rey Nobody edit. You could keep the entire scene, just replace Kylo talking about her parents to Kylo talking about the fate of her friends, and you could replace the “flashbacks” with “flashforwards” of the battle.

For my own Nobody edit, I’m off down the same path I was on before (they’re still talking about how Rey’s parents were killed by Palpatine). But I’m just doing that to start out, because I know it can be done. But the possibilities are so much wider now. Definitely interested in thinking about ways to execute your deadly premonitions version, or the Rey killed her parents concept. You could probably make anything work at this point.

I think the argument against the shuttle is that it’s so big it looks almost comical in that shot, and unless you’re a hardcore nerd you won’t really know or care that it’s the most plausible vehicle for him to have used (and even then some won’t).

I think you followed Spence’s edit, which is similar to how mine was before, but also different, but not sure how. Basically what I’m saying is I don’t remember either. But we’ll see what I come up with and how it looks and we can compare and contrast then I guess hahah

The mix of both is pretty impressive. What’s the methodology there, are you literally playing both the original center track and the enhanced track at the same time? Or is something else going on, a slider on the effect or what?

Octorox said:

All this AI dialogue stuff sounds really promising. I definitely think we could generate some stuff specifically for the Rey Nobody version as well.

I’ve been hard at work. I’m much busier these days than at the start of the pandemic when the movie just came out on blu-ray, but hopefully I’ll have something to share within the next few weeks, and Hal can take a look and see what he may or may not want to use for his version.

Hal 9000 said:

This one hasn’t been fully tucked in, but has most of Poe’s lines replaced with the AI. The only snippet original to TROS is, “The Emperor and his followers have been–.” And even that line could be replaced. The one available from JJB was too wordy to fit into the footage available. (I could use the longer line if the line, “His followers have been ____ something for years” could be tailored to closely fit his mouth movements, because in these tests I had to use a cutaway shot of Rey when he says this. If I could dub this shot of Poe, I could use that shot for the removed ‘16 hours’ line.)

https://drive.google.com/file/d/149clMZ5a9FsFFGqS1mfCq5IO6sSY_NsM/view?usp=share_link

Not bad, though maybe feels a bit obviously edited to have so much of his monologue be off camera before we finally see him?