Darth-Adroit

User Group: Members
Join date: 8-Jun-2006
Last activity: 10-Sep-2006
Posts: 99

Post History

Post: #218474
Topic: Remember when everyone hated Return of the Jedi?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218474/action/topic#218474
Time: 14-Jun-2006 7:03 AM

Originally posted by: CO In a sense the smartest thing Lucas did was using the number system, cause it is psychological mechanism that many feel they are not watching all the story. I know one friend who thinks TPM is awful, but feels he has to watch it because it is part of the story now.

I would say I use your friend’s logic for ROTJ and the PT. I can ignore most ridiculous EU (say the Droids Cartoons or SOTME) because they are not part of the filmology of the GFFA.

I always gave Jedi equal treatment (meaning 350 + viewings about the same as ESB and ANH) even though I thought it merited fewer viewings.

In the same manor I keep watching the PT. Part of it is masochism, part of it is wanting to give the Star Wars of my issues generation equal treatment and part of it is me trying to convince myself that they aren’t that bad. For what they are I guess they aren’t. Compared with other typical popcorn movies (ID4, Godzilla aka GINO, the Matrix Sequels, et al) the Prequel Trilogy isn’t all that bad. It only starts to pale when you compare it to other classic tales that were brought to the silver screen at the same time. I know LOTR purists have issues with the Two Towers, but all in all the LOTR movies do a better job of conveying the spirit of the book than the PT does conveying the spirit of the OT. The Spiderman and X-Men movies also conveyed the message of the originals in a fashion that didn’t insult long-time fans.

Just a little effort by George could’ve helped the PT and ROTJ quite a bit. Perhaps if George had watched ANH and ESB just once before writing Jedi and the PT we would have decent continuity in the entire saga.

Post: #218410
Topic: I would prefer a special special edition :O)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218410/action/topic#218410
Time: 14-Jun-2006 12:01 AM

Originally posted by: jack Spencer Jr

Originally posted by: chrisdo

Oh i am a typical German, some People may be scared
by our love to perfection

Is it wrong that this makes me giggle?

i am scared by my love to mockery

As someone that’s been to Buchenwald and Dachau I don’t find it humorous. I find it disturbing and not in keeping with the ideals of the Germans I have known. Still if I hadn’t gone to those places I would definitely laugh.

I really think it is a miscommunication on Chrisdo’s part and I don’t think he will realize why you think that’s funny until he reads my post.

Hallo Chrisdo. Mein deutsch ist Hundescheiße. Ich liebe Deutschland. Ich leben in Wiesbaden fur drei jahre und viele von mine Vorfahren warst Bayerischer.

Post: #218392
Topic: End of SE ROTJ...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218392/action/topic#218392
Time: 13-Jun-2006 10:57 PM

Originally posted by: wmgan Even if the "ghosts" were actually visible, Luke should still have sensed their presence, just as he would if he saw them in the flesh. Vader certainly had no trouble recognizing Obi Wan as an old man . . .

Did Luke shower, shit and shave with Anakin for a decade? No; in fact Luke had NO CLUE what his father looked like until the big reveal at the end of Jedi.

In contrast Anakin did shower, shit and shave with Obi-Wan for many years. It seems reasonable that Anakin would recognize Obi-Wan. Oh yeah then there’s the fact that when Vader stuck down Obi-Wan he was an old man. Does, “Your skills are weak old man” sound familiar?

Post: #218390
Topic: Why all the negative coments about george lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218390/action/topic#218390
Time: 13-Jun-2006 10:46 PM

Originally posted by: Scruffy I think any attempt to find political or moral messages in the PT is doomed to failure. Any indicator of such a message is so muddled that it could be interpreted as

a) poorly handled nuance, or

b) poorly handled superficial exposition.

I agree and it’s sad because that was not always the case with Star Wars. I know many people try to read political messages into everything coming out of Hollywood, but that isn’t my style. The Anakin/Obi-Wan exchange just reeked of political motives to me. It’s as if George was trying to tell the rest of the industry, “Look I know I haven’t always agreed with all of you and I’m considered a maverick, but I still hate Republicans so please love me and let me win some awards for my CG.”

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape Yeah, in a lot of ways, the prequels, if you look hard enough, don't really represent the Jedi in a very good light at all, to the point where you feel it's good that they were wiped out. But having lowered myself to watching them in George's order (I feel I can't complain if I haven't tried it), it actually makes me a little bit sick that the Jedi return in the "last" movie if they return as the same egotistical assholes they were in the prequels.

Another valid point. Based on the OT I saw the Jedi as above politics, above dogma and above many of the other trappings that keep us mere mortals occupied. There was the force, the force was truth and to use it for personal gain was like stealing money from the offering plate at church. Then George ignores the entire EU (you know the one he approved) and forbids marriage for the Jedi. I can’t decide if that was George taking a hit at the RCC, shitty writing or an excuse to allow an EU author to write another book to explain the discrepancies between the Old Jedi Order (say prior to 1000BBY) and the PT Jedi Order. Unfortunately I think the later two options are closer to the truth.

Post: #218362
Topic: What scene in the (O-)OT do you hate/dislike the most?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218362/action/topic#218362
Time: 13-Jun-2006 9:15 PM

Originally posted by: Scruffy Darth-Adroit ... Can I print that out and use it for my next board? "Sir, this guy says that I have a firm grasp of small unit leadership and the role of an NCO. It was on a message board, sir. A Star Wars message board. We were discussing the cordon and search of Mos Eisley, and I was defending the position that Luke and the droids ... yessir, mountain climbers, how many?"

I'm only a Reserve SPC, btw. Never been anywhere, never done anything. But if I can pass for a BTDT NCO, then something in the training must be sticking. Hooah!

While we're on the subject, what do you think about approaching Star Wars as a legitimate fictional military history? I've found that those who approach the Trilogy as such, like Saxtonor Wong tend to have the most interesting discussions.

You are more than welcome to print it and put it on your resume. Shit send me a counseling form and I’ll do it up for you. Of course it would carry no weight because I’ve been out since 2000.

The training does work and some of it always stays with you. My friends and co-workers think I’m crazy because I use a dozen different routes to and from work, but I really can’t help it. My MI training means I can’t avoid using counter-intelligence. I’m willing to bet that you can’t take a shot without remembering BRM and the four fundamentals. I use BRM with my son’s Nerf guns.

Let me take a look at the links you provided and do some thinking before I consider Star Wars as fictional Military History. I can tell you right away the PT in general and ROTS in particular is out of the question. Now let me stop before I go on another “buzz droids” rant.

Post: #218351
Topic: We have to buy this set atleast to preserve it for the next generation of fans
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218351/action/topic#218351
Time: 13-Jun-2006 8:45 PM

Originally posted by: Scruffy

Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format.

Someone probably said that about the Bible, but good philosophy has a pretty long shelf life.

And there are only a handful of scholars reading smeary, falling-apart Aramaic and Koine copies of the Bible.

Touché’

Still I think my point is valid. Catholics can claim that the Protestants removed the Apocrypha from the Bible and George can say that the SE OT is the original. So long as people are interested in seeking the truth they will find it. If 1.2 Billion Roman Catholics can’t hide the Council of Trent (1546) then I don’t think ILM can hide the OOT.

Post: #218333
Topic: The Things We Hate And Love Thread .
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218333/action/topic#218333
Time: 13-Jun-2006 7:43 PM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape Well, I'm sure there's something to be said for all the hormones pumped into food in industrialized nations while third-world countries only eat organic.

I concur. I’ve got a niece that’s has worn DD cup bras since she was 12. Is that natural? No it’s hormone injections into the food supply.

Post: #218181
Topic: Certificate from Bush
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218181/action/topic#218181
Time: 13-Jun-2006 7:33 AM

Originally posted by: PSYCHO_DAYV

I AGREE. EVERY PERSON DESERVES TO HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS AS EVERYBODY ELSE.

Just to play Devil’s Advocate for a moment everyone does have the same rights. I’m a heterosexual male and I can marry a female, but not a male. Were I a homosexual male I could also marry a female, but not a male.

Originally posted by: Yoda Is Your Father

And for those who oppose gay marriage (or homosexuality in general) on religion grounds, I thought the church and the state were supposed to remain seperate (a very wise decision IMO).

I agree wholeheartedly, which raises the question; why is the government involved in a religious ceremony (marriage) to begin with?

I believe that every American has the right (meaning ability not entitlement) to pursue life, liberty and happiness so long as it does not infringe on another American’s life, liberty or happiness.

I really don’t care if you get off on hooking your nuts up to a car battery I just want you to keep it in an appropriate venue. That’s where the gay community messes things up; they draw attention to their orientation. I’m not talking about the marriage thing I’m talking about “Gay Night” at the Ball Park. I just think it’s inappropriate to have sexual orientation based events and discounts in a very public display. I like blow jobs and I know many other men that do as well (straight and gay for that matter), so should we have a “Guys that like blow-jobs night” at the ball park? The answer is no. In a public venue, frequented by families, it is inappropriate to make any sexual references. Why should you have to tell your three year old what a blow-job is just because me and my buddies are happy we’re getting them?

I also agree about the marriage amendment. There should be no amendments that RESTRICT rights. We’ve tried that before (Volstead Act) and all it did was cause an increase in organized crime and help the Canadian liquor industry. Same Sex Marriage only an issue because the mid-term elections are coming and the Republicans want to stir up their base. Still we should remember that both parties pull this shit all the time. The Democrats said there would be a draft by summer 2005 if Bush was reelected so where’s the draft?

As for the “sanctity” of marriage, heterosexuals screwed that up in America years ago. How can one talk about gays ruining the sanctity of marriage when the heterosexual divorce rate sits at 50%?

Back on topic:

50 years is great and the certificate is nice, but I’m sure IS’s grandparents have connections that are much deeper and more meaningful than any piece of paper.

Post: #218176
Topic: Nintendo Wii
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218176/action/topic#218176
Time: 13-Jun-2006 6:29 AM

Originally posted by: Skipper The difference is that the kids will damn you until you get them a wii.

The wife will keep damning you forever. "Honey remember that time 30 years ago when I told you not to get that new Wii? That just goes to show how irresponsible you are."

Tread veerrrrrrryyyy carefully... Make absolute sure you get it with 4 controllers and wii sports or something. So that you can say "see its something for all of us to use, I got it so we can all have fun on riany days." Get elebits and mario. Get wii orchestra (if its not included with sports) so you can say. "Im helping to foster their musical talent."

Little things like that y'know. Goodness knows it works on mothers

Indeed. Being an early adopter is a lose/lose proposition. Most of the good games take a generation or two to pop up and you invariably pay a higher price for the privilege of owning a system out of the gate. I was foolish and bought a Sega Saturn as soon as it was released in May 1995. The Saturn was essentially obsolete by new years 1996 and I carried that $399 purchase on my credit card for years. My wife is still riding my ass about that one, which is why I don’t have a 360 right now.

Post: #218174
Topic: The Things We Hate And Love Thread .
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218174/action/topic#218174
Time: 13-Jun-2006 6:16 AM

Originally posted by: Nanner Split

2. The way extremists highjack good things and twist them for nefarious purposes (the KKK with Crosses and the Confederate Flag, Religious terrorists with the Bible, the Qur’an, the Torah, Lucas with the OT, et al)

Sort of like Hitler's twisting of the Buddhist peace symbol into the swastika?

Exactly like that.

Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab....Darth-Adroit, insinuating that someone is a glutton because they are fat is a bit disengenuous. A lot of people are fat because of their metabolism or genetics, not because they constantly pig out and over-eat.

I have some relatives and friends that make this claim. Can you tell me why there are no people with these “big bones” and hormone problems in famine prone regions? Where are all the big boned people in Ethiopia? How come people in Rwanda don’t have hormone problems? I’m sure there are people with legitimate reasons and they get a pass, but it just seems odd that these hormonal deficiencies and bone mutations only occur in industrialized nations with an agricultural surplus.

Post: #218168
Topic: Why all the negative coments about george lucas?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218168/action/topic#218168
Time: 13-Jun-2006 5:36 AM

As I’ve said numerous times I don’t hate George because I don’t hate anyone. Still fans have a right (some would say an obligation) to be critical of the artists they adore. I do see George as hypocritical, egotistical and intellectually dishonest.

I’m willing to bet that virtually NO ONE would have had any issues with the release of the OT on DVD if it had been handled correctly. Put the OOT on one side of the disk and then put the SE OT on the other side. This has worked for home video releases for decades. The original film is presented on one disk or tape and the directors cut is provided on a second side/disk/tape. That way fans have the original film they fell I love with, but know that the other film is what the director originally had in mind. In fact if George really wanted the majority of his fans to adopt the SEs that was the only way to do it.

By the same token George has allowed his political views and social mores to alter the feel and indeed believability of his films. There is the much lamented Han/Greedo scene that was only altered to appeal to George’s new ideas about what a “good guy” should do. That would be just great if we were discussing the clean-cut, goodie-two-shoes hero, Luke Skywalker. Unfortunately we are talking about the sell my mother up the river, cut throat, anti-hero, Han Solo. Now it’s no surprise that Han shows up to rescue Luke at the end; that’s what heroes do.

Then there is the jab at the President that George threw into ROTS. I don’t have a problem with George taking a jab at George, but I do have a problem with the fact that it was obvious, poorly executed and lied about:

“Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.” – George W. Bush

"If you're not with me, then you're my enemy." – Darth Vader

“Only Sith deal in absolutes.” – Obi-Wan

Really Obi-Wan? Let us look at what the grand masters of these two orders have to say:

“No! Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try.” – Yoda

“Anakin, if one is to understand the great mystery, one must study all its aspects, not just the dogmatic, narrow view of the Jedi. If you wish to become a complete and wise leader, you must embrace a larger view of the Force.” – Darth Sideous

It looks to me like the Jedi are the conservative order. They believe in black and white and they believe that anyone that embraces anything other than white is evil. Meanwhile the Sith draw on black, white, gray or any other shade that will bring them power. Of course according to Lucas I’m imagining this jab at Bush41 because he wrote all of this during the Nixon administration. Really? Lucas had all of the dialog for ROTS written prior to August 9, 1974? I’m calling bull shit on that one.

I’m a Moderate/Independent so I have no horse in the Liberal/Conservative Republican/Democrat race, but I’d be offended if I did. If I was a Bush supporter I would be mad at the obvious jibe at the president. If I was a Bush hater I would be upset that my position was being represented by such a flawed and contradictory argument. If I had been able to maintain my suspension of disbelief up until that point in ROTS that one sequence of dialog would’ve jerked me back and it only happened because George has his priorities mixed up.

Post: #218154
Topic: The Chronology of How My love for Lucas has fallen
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218154/action/topic#218154
Time: 13-Jun-2006 4:24 AM

ANother great post from CO.

My timeline is essentially the same with the following additions/alterations:

1983-1999- Rumors abound that although George will never make sequels to the OT he will make Prequels. My friends and I discuss ideas at length, unknowingly setting ourselves up for a big let-down in the years 1999-2005. I’ll take responsibility for having some unrealistic expectations, but how could I know that a few 12-year-olds could come up with a better back-story than the master of modern story-telling?

1992- Heir to the Empire is released and I’m drawn headlong back into the GFFA. Say what you will about Zahn and his additions to the Star Wars Universe, the Thrawn Trilogy when taken in conjunction with Han/Greedo in SE SW show that Zahn has a much better grasp of Han Solo than Lucas does.

1999- TPM comes out; I take leave from Peace-Keeping Operations/War in Serbia to reunite with my family. I purposely choose late May/Early June so I can see TPM with my young family. I’m disappointed, but tell myself that it’s my fault for building up too much anticipation. Some of my anger is mitigated by my children; I have serious issues with Jar Jar, but my 3-year-old daughter loves him so early on (the first three viewings) he gets a pass. Also my son is five, the exact same age I was when I saw the original in 1977 and his excitement about Maul seems to parallel my excitement about Vader.

2002- AOTC comes and I actually breathe a sigh of relief. AOTC is the best of the PT movies in my opinion. I’m the exception I know. Still there were elements of mystery (Sifo-Diyas) and I’m happy that Anakin is finally the age I hoped he would be in TPM. I initially overlook the still ridiculous levels of CG because Jar Jar is absent from most of the film. I can overlook the horrible (especially compared to ESB) romance sequences. I don’t bitch about Anakin being whiney because I remember that Luke was whiney until the end of ESB.

2003-2005- I play the crap out of KOTOR and it raises questions that are hard to answer:

1. How can a Canadian RPG developer have a better feeling for the nature of the force than its inventor?

2. How can this same developer convey a deeper, more engrossing and epic story than George can? I know that a Video Game is a broader canvas than a movie, but that should be negated by the fact that George has a significantly larger budget and virtually unlimited resources.

2004- DVD released and like CO I was hoping it would include both versions (OOT & SE) of the films. The replacement of SS by HC in the force ghost scene reminds me that George doesn’t have a fucking clue what his own story is. If the OT is supposed to be about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker shouldn’t the ghost that appears be the old Anakin? I mean if the ghost is HC was Anakin ever truly redeemed? Was I wrong in thinking that the Jedi in ROTJ was plural? Why do evil people get greater rewards (young, virile 23-year-old Anakin spirit) than loyal Jedi (old, broken down Yoda/Ben spirits) from the living force?

2005 - ROTS comes out. OK, this is the story, Lucas is going to hit a homerun. I also left the theatre stunned. Stunned that George chose to use a slow-motion sound clip of Austin Powers screaming NOOOO to relay the tragedy that Vader feels for the death of Padme. Stunned that the film is called Revenge of the Sith and there is not much of an explanation of why they want revenge. Stunned that George just threw away the Sifo-Diyas plot line after saying several times (including his commentary on the AOTC DVD) that it would be specifically addressed in Episode III. Most of all I was stunned at myself; I let myself get excited over another Lucas film in 2005 when I should’ve been able to read the tea leaves in 1983.

2006- The O-OT is released, and I am ecstatic! I would be much happier if the films were given the same love and attention that has been heaped on the SE. Still I’m almost happy that no clean up will be attempted because I know George would fuck that up too. I’m also happy to have the films because my last VHS copy of Star Wars is about to die.

I don’t hate George because I don’t really hate anyone. At the same time I do fundamentally believe the statement I put in my signature:

“I also thought George could be turned back to the good side. It couldn't be done. He is more CGI now than story. Twisted and evil.”

Post: #218146
Topic: Will the OOT *even* be DVD9?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218146/action/topic#218146
Time: 13-Jun-2006 2:58 AM

Originally posted by: darkhelmet

Originally posted by: eros
Old

Okay.

Anybody else with anything WORTH saying?

Old or not I appreciated the link darkhelmet. I hadn’t seen it before and I can use George’s BS quotes to pressure my wife into getting me the OOT DVDs. Not that she needs any added motivation (I’ve been crying for years now), but extra ammunition is always appreciated.

Post: #218144
Topic: What scene in the (O-)OT do you hate/dislike the most?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218144/action/topic#218144
Time: 13-Jun-2006 2:39 AM

Originally posted by: Gaffer Tape Wow, Scruffy, this is a lot of insight into something I admit I've never really given a lot of thought to. Cool stuff.

I’m guessing based on the use of the term REMF (Rear Echelon Mother Fuckers; essentially combat support/combat service support personnel i.e S1/G1 admin types, Cooks, Mechanics, et al) that Scruffy is either a Veteran or a Military Brat.

Based on his familiarity with tactics and SOP I’d guess it’s most probable that Scruffy is a Veteran. The following statement is especially telling:

“Docking Bay 94 was a case of an officer or NCO getting time-sensitive intelligence and rushing a unit into a mission it wasn't trained for.”

Here Scruffy illustrates that a leader (Officer/NCO) has a good grasp of what his theoretical responsibilities are (to “seek responsibility and take responsibility for my actions”), but does not have full grasp of his unit’s capabilities. The leader Scruffy described was following the NCO Creed to, “exercise initiative by taking appropriate action in the absence of orders.” That being the case I’ll lay odds that Scruffy was an NCO in the US Army.

If my train of logic is correct then I extend a heartfelt “Huah” and “Air Assault” to Scruffy from a former 98J202T.

Post: #218109
Topic: Should Lucus make 4,5 and 6 over?
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218109/action/topic#218109
Time: 13-Jun-2006 12:31 AM

Originally posted by: darkhelmet Yeah, YIYF, I'm with you on this! I don't think Lucas really cared about the art of filmmaking while doing the prequels.

Seemed more like a bid for more acclaim from pioneering film technology and an extended demo reel to show the industry what ILM could do for other Hollywood filmmakers.

Exactly. That’s where George went wrong with the PT and where he has gone wrong with the SE. He has added elements to showcase ILM CG prowess with little regard for necessity or plausibility. Why was Jabba added to the SE version of Star Wars when the data he related was repetitive? Was there any essential element conveyed by Vader’s shuttle scene in the SE version of ESB? Is Jar Jar really essential to the story of the PT in general and TPM in particular? What is the purpose of the “buzz droids” in ROTS? The sad truth is that all of these issues could have been avoided all together, but George needed to show the film industry that ILM was still #1 in CG. Weta Digital and Sony Pictures Imageworks maintained pressure on George throughout the PT so excessive CG was a given for those films.

I think it is better to ask should the PT have been written with an eye towards the OT.

I always thought Ben was going to be a rebel in the PT. You know a real bad ass, borderline anti-hero, someone that was reckless (as he claimed to be in ESB) and rebellious. I did get such a character in TPM, but his name was Qui-Gon.

I also though Ben “took it upon himself” to train Anakin. As far as I can see he considered Anakin a “pathetic life form” and a “dangerous” distraction. I left TPM thinking that Obi-Wan had been guilted into training Anakin by Qui-Gon’s dying wish.

These are just two minor issues that the PT raised. There are much deeper elements (midi’s, the turn, Anakin/Padme) that could be discussed.

In the end I think the OOT is fine just the way it is.

Post: #218088
Topic: We have to buy this set atleast to preserve it for the next generation of fans
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218088/action/topic#218088
Time: 12-Jun-2006 10:24 PM

Originally posted by: Scruffy Twenty years from now, no one will be willing to watch some smeary 4:3 laserdisc master dumped onto the obsolete DVD format. Especially if they have no pre-existing love for the material. It'll be a novelty item, perhaps suitable for play on portable media devices, but not on home theater systems. Of course, that's what it is today.

Someone probably said that about the Bible, but good philosophy has a pretty long shelf life. Standing up for what is right, serving a cause larger than oneself; these are timeless themes. Star Wars is a cultural icon and as such will outlive everyone posting on these forums.

I remember watching “The Sound of Music” in school on an old reel-to-reel projector because it was important to my 1st grade music teacher. If the passion is there it will always be there. The secret is to make sure the new generation is aware of where George went wrong. My 12-year-old son is just as critical of the films as I am and my 9-year-old daughter isn’t too far behind.

I’m not talking about brain-washing your children, just develop critical thought. I pointed out the Han/Greedo thing to my kids and they immediately saw how the changes DESTORYED Han’s character development. Most of the other debates about questionable material in Star Wars have been provoked by my son. I was beaming with pride when I went to see ROTS with the family; in the opening scene (during the “buzz droids” sequence) my son turned to me and said, “dad if they can get droids there can’t they get explosives there?” At age 10 my son already knew that George was placing scenes in the movie as an excuse for CG.

Teach your issue an appreciation for good story-telling and the OT will be on your family’s shelf long after you’ve shuffled off your mortal coil.

Shit the old Godzilla movies have neither a good story nor good SE and I still enjoy them.

Post: #218066
Topic: Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218066/action/topic#218066
Time: 12-Jun-2006 9:10 PM

Originally posted by: Tachikoma-Kun
So that was how liberty really died... To a deafening silence. I can't help but think that they are shooing themselves in the leg. Once you drive out all the critisism and alternative points of views, you are left with nothing.

That is a very astute observation, but it isn’t the only way they are shooting themselves in the foot.

Note that the majority of posters on the “Bashers Sanctuary” were over the age of thirty.

Note that people age 30-55 are in the prime of their bread-winning years while teens and twenty-somethings struggle to make it. The former group has much more discretionary income than the later and they are also much more likely to have children of their own.

Note that TFN makes mad cash based on people following their links to purchase items.

In my case this means that TFN lost four possible sources of income (DA, DA’s wife, DA’s two kids) just because they don’t respect differing points of view. It’s obvious just from looking around here that I am far from the only person that left and that’s just the people that left the “Basher’s Sanctuary.” Now imagine all of the posters that took the moral high ground and refused to even post in the Sanctuary because it implied that they were bashers. All of these people have found other sites and those sites are now reaping the rewards for TFN’s (or more accurately TFN mod’s) foolishness.

Post: #218049
Topic: Moving in from the Basher's Sanctuary (TF.n)
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/218049/action/topic#218049
Time: 12-Jun-2006 8:36 PM

Originally posted by: CO
LSHB
Ree Yees
Invader Jenny
Sanctuary Moon
DOTF
Patrick Russell
Wampa Joe
Harlock 415
Skye Solo
Mandalorian
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Such familiar names, I was cjedi72, and didn't know the sanctuary existed, and started arguing with fans who thought TPM was better than the original SW, so I got banned. When I was released from jail, I moderated myself around the PT gushers, and hung out in the sanctuary, cause that was the only place you could post an opinion without getting warned of baiting.

Wow we do have quite the gathering of “bashers” here. I can remember being on the same side as CJedi72 and Sanctuary Moon in many debates.

I also was a longtime TFN poster, initially as fistofsouth and later as Darth-Adroit and of course my sock Dark Lord of the Socks. My primary screen name (DA) was banned for being critical of the films. It kills me; I NEVER stoop to the level of insulting a poster or personal attacks and I was banned for saying that many fans had become Lucas apologists. I tried to fight the good fight; to point out that apologist is not an insult unless one takes it as such, to point out that my comments were directed at no poster in particular and I pointed out the fact that I has been PERSONALLY attacked by no less than a dozen gushers for the three pages that preceded my “offensive” comment. Did the mods warn the other users? I don’t know they may have via PM, but they specifically pointed me out within the discussion as the source of the problem.

TFN is not a place for constructive discussion of any kind. I posted on those boards for seven years and watched it slide downhill the whole time. There was a time when I really hated seeing posts from Darth Howell the third and all the others that came up with crazy theories (R2 camera, Yoda is the Sith lord, et al) while the PT was being made. After those posters left I missed them because I realized that their crazy theories were the only thing keeping the mods out of constructive debates. After ROTS came out all the crazy theory threads disappeared and the real crack down on “bashers” began.

Glad to see so many other “bashers” made their way over here. I consider us the Bens and Yodas of TFN. TFN is now a dark, evil empire where critical thought is extinguished before it can germinate. It’s comforting to know that the OT forum (Rebel Alliance) exists to nurture those of us that don’t love every piece of tripe George serves up.

Post: #217436
Topic: The Things We Hate And Love Thread .
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217436/action/topic#217436
Time: 9-Jun-2006 7:12 AM

Originally posted by: Bossk

Originally posted by: jimbo
When people put up Christmas decorations before Halloween

AMEN!

It is annoying, but I’m ok with it for two reasons:

1. Christ’s birthday was actually around Labor Day so celebrating it in October is closer to historical accuracy than December.
2. Paul said in Galatians 4:10-11 "10You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! 11I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you." This is a common theme in the New Testament in general and the Pauline letters in particular. The idea is that everyday with Christ is a celebration and there is thus no reason to set aside any particular day of observance. My point is that I think all Christmas lights piss off God so they’ll hear about their October lights from the big man someday.

Back on topic. I don’t really hate anything or anyone, but there are some things I dislike, which include, but are not limited to:
1. Extremists of any type.
2. The way extremists highjack good things and twist them for nefarious purposes (the KKK with Crosses and the Confederate Flag, Religious terrorists with the Bible, the Qur’an, the Torah, Lucas with the OT, et al)
3. Hypocrites. Say fat Christians that bag on Gays; gluttony is one of the “seven deadly sins” and homosexuality is not. Atheists that criticize people of faith for their faith while they have total faith (and thus no empirical data) that there is no God.
4. Revisionism of any kind. Everything from the Texas Revolution to Han and Greedo can be found in this category.
5. Politicians in general and their inclination to talk up hot-button issues (same sex marriage, abortion, gun control, the environment, et al), which they never intend to pass legislation on. Normally they do this to make sure their base votes and it works, but it really fucks over moderate/independents like me.
6. The self centered, self important nature that humans and indeed humanity gravitates towards. Say the guy that cuts you off in traffic because he thinks his time is more important than your life. Global warming is another humanity centered issue. If we have such a profound impact on the Earth how did the little ice age end if there were no factories or SUVs? If we cause issues for the planet it will shake humanity off like a bad cold.
7. People that think they are subject matter experts on every topic because they have a broadband connection.

Post: #217385
Topic: Something I don't get....
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217385/action/topic#217385
Time: 9-Jun-2006 1:40 AM

Originally posted by: JeremyM Okay, so like a lot of people I've heard about the new releases of the original trilogy, and that they're taken from the laserdisc versions. I have mixed feelings about it

I feel the same way. At this point I am basically going to be forced to buy the DVDs this fall despite my misgivings. I’m on my third set of OOT VHS tapes and my kids have been wearing those out lately.

Post: #217382
Topic: The Official Lucasfilm Response
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217382/action/topic#217382
Time: 9-Jun-2006 1:23 AM

Originally posted by: MeBeJedi
Just thought I'd point out this little discrepenecy:

Threat: Greedo said he'd take Han's ship

Now I KNOW whoever made this card didn't watch the movie. WTF? Greedo was going to KILL HIM !!! in order to take the Falcon.

I concur wholeheartedly. It is preposterous that George ever tried to say that what Han did was killing “in cold blood.” I’m a veteran I’ve seen killing in cold blood and I can tell you that what Han did was not cold blooded. It is not cold blooded to fire upon someone when they point a gun in your face and threaten to kill you, it’s just prudent. There may be some civil courts that would view Han’s preemptive strike as excessive, but I can assure you most courts here in Texas would declare him innocent on the grounds of self defense.

I think George has been too heavily influenced by the pacifist, revisionist nature of his pal Steven Spielberg. Look at what Steve did to E.T. Most of the Federal Agent’s firearms were removed and replaced with walkie-talkies. Does that sound like Mulder and Scully to you? No. All it really does is butcher a classic film by inserting something that detracts from the believability of the story. All because the creator had a shift in values and wanted their most notable story to reflect their new mores. It’s bull shit. I wonder how people would feel if da Vinci came back from the dead and repainted the Mona Lisa to look like Pamela Anderson because his tastes changed?

EDIT: Grammar

Post: #217340
Topic: Dont give up being a fan
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217340/action/topic#217340
Time: 8-Jun-2006 10:35 PM

I will never stop being a Star Wars fan. I can directly trace some of the most profound decisions in my life to the influence of Star Wars. I was five in 1977 and Star Wars had strong themes about honor and standing up for what is right, which influenced my thinking. I began to see that there were real people in this world (Fire Fighters, Police, Soldiers, Missionaries, et al) that put their life on the line for a higher cause. I began watching the old documentary series “The World at War” on PBS and seeing the professionalism and sacrifices of the Veterans of World War II made me decide that I wanted to pursue a Military Career. I left the US Army in 2000 after a six-year career as a Military Intelligence (please no oxymoron jokes) Interceptor/Analyst/Supervisor. I don’t know if I would have ever had that career without the influence of Star Wars.

George owns the intellectual rights to Star Wars and he’s free to change the story as much as he likes. Now that I will be able to get a legitimate copy of the OOT on DVD I don’t care what he changes because I can always see the films as I first remember them.

I am quite cognizant of the fact that George lost something along the way. Once he was known as a great story-teller and now he’s known as a special effects guru. His recent efforts, be they changes to the OT or the presentation of the PT, confirm that George is now more interested in SE than story-telling. It is sad and it’s something that has been coming for a long time.

It sucks that George is now more focused on SE than writing a great story, but just because he’s lost it doesn’t mean everyone has. There is still good Star Wars product to be found. Some of the Novels are good and the Knights of the Old Republic (KOTOR) games are probably the best RPGs I’ve ever played. It is my personal opinion that the story of the first KOTOR game is better than the story of the entire PT. I will grant that a Video Game is a much broader canvas than a trilogy films. But it should be pointed out that George had a much larger budget for the PT than Bioware had for KOTOR.

The point to my entire rant is this; yes it sucks big green donkey dicks that George has lost some of his magic, but he’s not the only magician in the Galaxy Far Far Away.

Post: #217329
Topic: The Other side of the 30th Anniversary
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217329/action/topic#217329
Time: 8-Jun-2006 9:51 PM

Originally posted by: SilverWook
We are talking some sort of new 3D process in any case. No red/blue glasses of the 50's or the polarized lenses that gave people headaches in the 80's. I just wish Lucas had been passionate enough about 3-D to have Viewmaster reels shot when the OT were being filmed.

That’s also what I’ve heard regarding the new 3D films. Still I fear what additional changes will be made by George while converting the films to 3D.

Post: #217136
Topic: End of SE ROTJ...
Link: https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/217136/action/topic#217136
Time: 8-Jun-2006 7:09 AM

First let me say howdy. I was a long term poster on the JCC at TFN, but I was banned for being critical of the films. I signed the OOT DVD petition last year and after I saw that the OOT was finally being released on DVD I decided to check out the petition again, which brought me to the forums.

The insertion of HC in the 2004 DVD’s totally invalidates the entire Saga. Since 1983 George has been saying that the OT was about the redemption of Anakin Skywalker. So was Anakin redeemed by Luke or not? If he was redeemed by his son it is only logical that he should appear in the form he last had when he was alive. That would be the old, redeemed Anakin not the young, yet to be redeemed Anakin.

I know some will say that Anakin had to appear as HC because that was the last time he was in one piece. This ignores the fact that the other Force Ghosts we see in the OT are idealized versions of a Jedi’s last physical form. That’s why Ben’s ghost doesn’t have a Lightsaber hole in it. That’s’ why Yoda’s ghost can sit comfortably and doesn’t appear to have trouble breathing, both of which his physical body was incapable of just before he died.

We need to also look at the implications that the HC ghost creates for the GFFA afterlife. Apparently if you serve the light side of the force and remain true to the Jedi ideals you are rewarded in the afterlife by living eternally in your old ass decrepit body. However, if you serve the dark side and murder those you love you get to live as a young, virile ghost for all eternity. Does that make any sense?