CWBorne

Forget anything you saw in the prequels, now these are fight scenes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t95zWq5gQe8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGRox5sYQQw

Finally starting getting some real work done on a treatment for the first film (Episode I: Son of the Suns). Initial draft will probably be around 20-25 pages as I'm 5 pages in and the first act still hasn't finished. Still gonna be some time before I start getting to an actual screenplay and work on (Episode II: Galaxy in Flames and Episode III: Broken Forces). Still debating on whether to post the work I've done so far. 

DuracellEnergizer said:

Well, it seems I'm not going to get very far with this thread. I'm not blaming you guys, though; I realize you guys aren't that knowledgeable on this aspect of SW. I suppose I'll just take this thread on over to TFN once they've finished revamping their forums - if anyone knows their EU, it's them. I'm not exactly keen on doing so, though. :grimace:

The issue is simply wading through so much EU material to find what is and isn't referenced. Zahn, Stackpole, Anderson, the Marvel Comics, the games, the graphic novels, Rogue Squadron, and the Star Wars RPG books by West End Games. Its what made me wish the OT community was almost a bit more hardcore nerdy to create a pre-Phantom Menace wiki, full of every character and backstory created prior to 1999. 

You can claim otherwise Lucas, but we'll get the musical comedy trilogy of the Adventures of Waywa Fybot and Jaxxon the Rabbit soon enough.

Generally playing with the color palette would do wonders with the prequels. I always envisioned the first film in the series being very technicolor-esque with the colors just popping, then in the second with the Clone Wars going badly for the Republic, you start seeing more muted hue variations, with overt color starting to disappear (especially in scenes with the antagonists) and then in the third film, its very de-saturated until the ending scenes with Luke and Leia. 

http://lostepisodes.fateback.com/index.html

This is a great little site for some bits and pieces of pre-99 lore. Worth a look. 

No joke, Obi-Wan Kenobi as he looked decades prior according to Marvel Comics:

Pre-99 Pre-ANH EU is tricky because they play so many elements ambiguously because that was directed by Lucas. Tales of Jedi will certainly give some details about older Jedi and Dark Jedi, and I know the Thrawn Trilogy gives some hints here and there (Spaarti cloning chambers anyone?). Also some interesting stuff would be in the Marvel Comics and early Han Solo novels which I haven't had the chance to get my hands on yet. 

Real holy grail would be getting copies of the West End Games sourcebooks used for the Star Wars RPG. Much of that essentially was a canon encyclopedia back in the day. 

Since Palpatine's not really a chessmaster with the villains (only manipulating things with the Republic, nothing more) both my central antagonists represent that aspects of the Mandalorian Coalition.

The lead big bad is the female general of the Mandalorians. Deadly, and remarkably experienced, but there's also hints of something deep with her with suggestions that the invasion of the Republic is really a last effort to head off the Mandalorian's complete entropy and extinction, because from their standpoint its either defeat the Jedi and re-solidy their place in the galaxy, or go down fighting in defeat.

The other big antagonist is a former major crime lord who commands the clones of the raw infantry. In a character sense, he's a much darker version of Han Solo: a rogue and charming in his own way, but also completely and utterly ruthless about his goals. While the Mandalorians and the Criminals/Pirates are technically in an alliance, both don't really like each other, but need one another in order to take out the Republic and the Jedi. 

Mandalorians bring the cloning technology and experience against the Jedi with the criminal powers providing the manpower for cloning and knowledge of the Republic's weaknesses. Its an enemy that can differ enough from the Empire to provide a contrasting villain while still being a large enough threat to provide tension. 

Its risky no doubt, and its not something I've definitively decided on, but I do think there's potential there. At the very least Anakin has to be protagonist of the first movie, for exposition's sake. The latter two films, well maybe there's some leeway there. 

The difference between my concept and Lucas is that his POV characters seemingly served no purpose. Indeed Episode One didn't seem to have a real protagonist at all, and if Jin was, it was a terrible decision because he couldn't be utilized by the audience as an introduction to the universe like Luke was. 

And I'm not clear at all as to who the main character was in either AOTC or ROTS. Again, its a matter of being clear as opposed to just throwing it out there. 

I think you could do something interesting from a narrative standpoint of initially making Skywalker the central protagonist with the first film told from his POV, as he is the one (to quote Kenobi) "making his first step into a larger world". Thus you can have someone to ask the questions the audience would and have the exposition in somewhat natural fashion. 

Then in the second you have both Ben and Anakin serving as dual protagonists, fitting their status as brothers in arms in the Clone Wars, and providing perhaps a fascinating contrast in their tones and points of view for when they are split apart for a portion of the movie. 

Then in the third, its Kenobi who takes over as the lead. This not only subtly foreshadows that Skywalker will act as the antagonist in the conclusion and in a sense creating narrative distance between the teacher/student but also really emotionally connecting with the audience as Ben sees the transformation of his best friend, the destruction of his fellow Jedi, and the final decay of the beloved Republic. 

If done well it would make for a proper introduction to the universe, allow an audience to sense the difference/division between the two most important characters, and creates for a genuinely sad finale with a character who has lost so much. Hence, in the grand scheme, the true tragedy of Star Wars is really one of Ben and Anakin, with the triumph of Luke is that he redeems the sins of the two and avoids the unfortunate fate of either. 

I really think what would help more than a reboot is just a hibernation period for Star Wars. One of things that prevented the franchise from getting too over-saturated to an audience was that it more or less went quiet from 84-91. As it is we've had an explosion of material for 20 years now from a multitude of comics, endless books, a cavalcade of games, 3 of the original films re-released in theaters, 4 new movies over 9 years, with 6 movies to be re-released in 3D, and two television shows, with another on its way. 

Now its never going to happen because there's way too much of a cottage industry to pretty much everything Star Wars related now, but in an ideal world there would be a period where the franchise could effectively step away for a bit, recharge its batteries, and maybe when it comes back, a new creative force could oversee it. 

Thinking about it more, Lucas had to have been right. Obviously Greedo was meant to shoot first, its why the novelization, the shooting script, and the comic adaptation feature Han shooting first, to make it such a delightful surprise for everyone when Greedo shoots first in the actual film. Sure, it certainly seems like Han did, but filmgoers are so often wrong.

Its these kind of audience mistakes that led to Orson Welles complaining years later about people assuming Rosebud in Citizen Kane was the sled and not the nickname of Kane's mustache as he intended and why Ralph Bakshi had to endlessly explain that his animated Lord of the Rings ended in the middle of the story to symbolically represent the danger of trusting midgets with important tasks.

Its just a shame Lucas forgot to correct this mistake/misinterpretation in the initial edit, or in the re-released versions shown in the theaters in the 80s, or its initial release on home video, or later release on home video. But thank goodness we had the Special Edition to correct this gross misinterpretation.

What's amazing to me is that a guy so wealthy and powerful could so easily do a restoration of the original films that would not only be a drop in the bucket cost for him, but would probably earn a good amount of money from fans... yet he just doesn't do out of some misplaced sense of pride or dogma. 

Its incredible because truthfully even after all the prequels, the second clone wars series, the extreme depths of merchandising, I would still look at Lucas at worst neutrally, and in some ways as a smart businessman if nothing else.

At this point to be honest I wouldn't care if GL released a pornographic musical comedy movie in the Star Wars universe based around the adventures of Jaxxon the Rabbit and Waywa Fybot; I just want to be able to see the original films in good quality without having to rely on fan rips.

Seems like a bit of slight oversimplification of Occupy Wall Street, but I do admit that their are issues on both sides of Lucas and Star Wars fans. 

Featuring other Jedi is a tricky game because you need to build audience interest and care regarding all the other knights and masters, but you don't want to diminish the nature of Kenobi or Skywalker by having a bunch of other people do what they do. My compromise is to have various others appear and play their parts, but many of them are not as involved directly with the armed forces like Ben and Anakin.

You have Jedi medics, pilots, builders, engineers, the works. Prior to the war starting there's references to Jedi creating music, art, writing, all kinds of things. Make it clear that being in touch with the Force went beyond just defensive and offensive moves in combat, and that something genuinely beautiful was lost when they were wiped out. Put Luke's journey in the original films as just beginning to regain the extent of what being a Jedi with the Force really meant. 

I've also been debating whether or not to hint at their mythology and lore, with Ben telling Anakin of the legend about Darth Vader, the earliest known Jedi to have turned to the dark side (which he did in order to supposedly save his fellow knights from extinction), with Skywalker later taking the name in the third prequel as a personal act of defiance against Kenobi. 

McFlabbergasty, you're a braver person than I, focusing the prequels on a relatively unknown character to the audience. Heck I deliberately chose to have Bail and Darelda as a major focus, as theoretically the audience would have some level of emotional investment in them given their eventual relationship with Leia. Thus even if you didn't care about them in the context of the story of the film, you could still be interested in seeing what kind of people they were, and thus in a way where Leia got much of herself from. 

Wholly original character HX-81 I included somewhat out of the sheer novelty of having a droid (particularly a battle one) with a very distinct personality to 3PO and R2.  

danaan said:

 

CWBorne said:

My current treatment actually as Mother Skywalker as a bit of a quirky wrench wench engineer type who actually worked with and knew Anakin before he ever met Kenobi. Character wise, you can actually see a bit of their kids personalities in them: Anakin with his daughter's iron determination and son's passion towards being a Jedi, Mother Skywalker with Leia's warmth and Luke's wide eyed farm boy impression of the galaxy (and a shared knack for mechanical work). 

That sounds really interesting, actually! Could turn out really well, depending on how it's done, of course ;P

 

Beyond hopefully having an interesting dynamic with Anakin, I'm honestly hoping to have Mother Skywalker acting as a symbol of an element of the Republic itself, specifically of the average, hardworking, common people. In fact all the main characters surrounding Skywalker would ideally do this.

-Prince Bail Organa as the hotheaded embodiment of the Republic military.

-Senator Darelda (future Queen Organa) as the slightly haughty representative of the Senate.

-The laid back Ben (Obi-Wan) Kenobi acting as the voice of the Jedi. 

-Cynical droid HX-81 eventually evoking the feelings and actions of both the more pessimistic and disgruntled citizens seeing the Mandalorian Coalition as preferable to Republic rule.

If it could be pulled off, having both the viewer see aspects of the Republic through these characters, and how they all affect Anakin's eventual journey, could really be something.  

McFlabbergasty, in terms of comparing all the various variations I've read of Episodes I-III I think it all comes down to the context and tone one is going for in their particular interpretation of the prequels. For yours, you're creating a larger war narrative, almost suggesting a cold war like tension between the Empire and Republic that falls apart once the external threat is gone. Indeed you get right to the punch as far as really shattering the old Republic and demonstrating both sides A bit like telling of how the Nationalists and Communists in China reluctantly aligned against the Japanese in the late 30s and early 40s only to eventually war with each other. Certain a fascinating concept and likely one worth telling. 

For me though, the whole series must be played as a grander tragedy. Not of Anakin Skywalker overtly (though he is symbolic of many elements), but of the Republic itself. I can't rush to civil war (or have a civil war at all) because mine is designed to demonstrate the Republic's legitimate strengths and virtues. The audience has to see and care about how good it was and be disheartened by it's slow degradation via war. Specifically a largely external war against an invading foe, a conflict that would seemingly distract so many from the growing problems in the Republic, yet ironically serve to exacerbate them. 

In my telling Palpatine can not and should not be a Machiavellian planner who manipulated the whole galaxy in order to rule it. It pushes him over the top and renders him a cartoonoish supervillain rather than a brilliant antagonist (yeah I know I'm basically talking about a despotic evil wizard here, but stay with me). The Empire and the Emperor's terror can better resonate with audiences if there's a degree of acknowledgement and fear that things like them can and have existed to us. 

The version of Star Wars I see in my stories suggests that Palpatine drafting a complex scheme to become Emperor, involving creating an entire intergalactic conflict and gaining greatly expanded powers seemingly overnight leaves him unreal and the forces of good as either ignorant or impotent.

Yet one who was simply cunning, seeing a contemporary conflict, and utilizing it to his advantage? One who rather than being intelligently proactive, is brilliantly reactive; turning so many incidents out of his initial control into advantages for himself whether its attacks on Coruscant or subtly influencing one troubled Jedi he had met? Terrifying, if for no other reason that it makes one realize that men like that, either in the Star Wars or in the real world don't need complicated plans; all that's necessary for them to flourish is things to go wrong, and that's a terror that resonates with anyone. 

Finally that whole matter points back to what I said about the the importance of tragedy as a major theme. Those in the Republic, whether citizens, many in the Senate, and the Jedi all did what they thought was right, saving the Republic from a dangerous invasion, only to realize too late that the worst danger came from within. All the decisions and acts done in order to defeat the enemy, to end the war as soon as possible, to bring peace the galaxy, yet so many of those would bring about doom for so much. That which served to save the Republic from conquest, would ultimately serve to damn it to tyranny, and that's something I just don't think a civil war story can as well as an external attack.

(Sorry about the length, I'm not always this long winded)  

I definitely think showing an outright turn from Republic to Empire is excessive. Its why my current treatment just has Palpatine declaring himself Chancellor for life, and nothing else. The implication of what he's going to do, and how the institution was perverted and corrupted into despotism, works much better in the audience's imagination. then anything shown on screen. In ANH the size of the star destroyer, the stormtrooper's assault, the appearance of Vader; all of that completely tells you what's happened to the galaxy in the 20 years since, all without literally saying anything. Ideally the reaction of going from the third prequel to A New Hope should be one of shock and horror at how bad things have gotten, particularly when we see what happens to Beru and Owen. 

Trying to work the specifics out, but Palpatine and his rise in power are much more referred to and some hinted at at than making up a large portion of screen time. Its through some casual conversation, allusions, and often his scenes with Anakin that we get a real idea for what happened. 

Palpatine was a wealthy trade businessman/philanthropist who more or less was an initial non-entity in the Senate because he had no real allies or enemies. He got elected primarily because he had no contact with any of the squabbling factions in the Senate, and thus promised to be a Chancellor (President) free of the usual politics and bureaucracy, which had become a major problem with various former holders of the office resigning or serving only one term due to scandal or not being powerful enough against the factions.  

When the war is going badly, he nationalizes a select few of his former businesses (which include ships, weapons, and mercenaries, which earns some grumbling in the senate about conflicting interests and supposed corruption, but the citizens in the Republic are so desperate for some ground they fully agree to it. The nationalized businesses end up being crucial in the second film as part of a distraction of the Mandalorian coalition forces, while a select group of Jedi and Republic forces destroy their biggest clone facility. 

By the third film, Palpatine is openly beloved by many citizens for helping to save the Republic from invasion, with the cynical members of the senate figuring that he'll likely re-privatize his old companies with interest money from the war, and retire from public office even richer. Except pretty much no one realized the full scope of Palpatine's plans. It turns out that he had much more ownership of the nationalized companies than realized, and his continuing monetary influence spread so far wide across the armed forces during the war, that the vast majority are loyal largely to him and his agents rather than to the Senate.  

Palpatine makes a public address to the Republic that due to the fragility of the peace, the tragic loss of the Jedi due a Mandalorian (actually Palpatine aligned forces) sneak attack, and to avoid any potentially dangerous governmental lethargy during another possible invasion, he will remain Chancellor (President) for life. Across the Republic, this news plays to cheering crowds. In the crowded Senate hall, there is only dead silence as the full weight of his words sets in.  

In the second to last scene of the film (with Lars/Kenobi with Luke on Tatooine and Bail/Darelda on Alderaan with Leia following) Palpatine makes his formal address to the Senate, announcing that while he will remain in his position for life, he makes assurances that Republic will still thrive, the Senate will continue, and that the remaining criminals of the war (seemingly Mandalorians) will not go unpunished. While this speech goes on the audience sees various scenes: the creation of vast amounts of stormtrooper uniforms, various Jedi on scattered planets being hunted down, Anakin's placement in a suit, and a green laser being tested on a small asteroid with great success. Palpatine ends his speech with:

The rewards we have earned at this moment can not and will not be forgotten. Members of the senate, citizens across the galaxy, and soldiers of this great Republic, it is the ingenuity and sacrifice of so many that allows us to stand in a glorious era. It is a period of new peace, of new prosperity, and of new order... for all time.

My current treatment actually as Mother Skywalker as a bit of a quirky wrench wench engineer type who actually worked with and knew Anakin before he ever met Kenobi. Character wise, you can actually see a bit of their kids personalities in them: Anakin with his daughter's iron determination and son's passion towards being a Jedi, Mother Skywalker with Leia's warmth and Luke's wide eyed farm boy impression of the galaxy (and a shared knack for mechanical work). 

Regarding Tatooine I think the Original Trilogy line that has people tending towards having Anakin on the planet is Kenobi stating to Luke that "He didn't hold with your father's ideals, thought he should have stayed here and not gotten involved. 

danaan said:

Edit: Oops, pressed the wrong button.

Diverging slightly from the current discussion, I find some common problems/mistakes among many prequel writers (myself included to some extent):

1) In ANH, Obi-Wan states that Anakin was "already an excellent pilot". Yet, I've seen prequel re-writers turn him into a farmer, or street urchin, or some such that does not click very well with Anakin being a pilot.

2) Making Anakin too special. We all know that Anakin has to be exceptionally talented, that's why Obi-Wan trains him. Yet, I've seen writers exaggerate his talents in ways that do not correspond very well with the tough requirements for becoming a Jedi established in the OT. Some have him already self-trained. I've even seen one writer have Anakin keep a spaceship from crashing, using the Force, as if he was already like Yoda. Less is more here, I think.

3) The Republic and the Jedi. The Jedi order are clearly officially sanctioned, from what Obi-Wan tells us. And yet, it doesn't seem like they would be the armed forces of the Republic, because the Republic is a democracy that probably wants to retain control over its own military, not hand it over to a strange sect. This relationship needs to be plausible in the storyline. I've seen too many writers who create something not very convincing.

1. My current idea involves Anakin being a navigator on a space frieghtor who in the rare  opportunities he does get to directly fly is quite remarkable, shown to Kenobi when he and Skywalker first leave Tatooine. In general its tricky because you have to establish why Anakin is such a great pilot and yet still is on a place like Tatooine.  

2. Agreed. I think Anakin's distinct quality should be one of emotion not abilities. Its the temptations he faces, and ultimately how worldview in compared to Kenobi and other Jedi led him down a darker path. It creates a more interesting picture if other than possibly Obi-Wan the other Jedi and Yoda didn't really see anything all that notable. In fact if Skywalker is largely under the radar of most other knights and masters it helps to explain why his fall was such a surprise since most would have assumed  Palpatine would seduce a more powerful Jedi.

3. That is an issue, plus it would seem to be a discrepancy that Obi-Wan and Anakin fought in the wars, while Yoda states that a Jedi uses the force for defense and not attack. However I think there is a way to make it work. If the Jedi were utilized in more of an advisory capacity in defense and dodging (utilizing precognitive abilities to alert about ships, planning strategy, very occasional use of the mind trick) they would be critical but not overtly powerful. In fact, my thinking has that fact as a growing point of conflict between Kenobi and Skywalker, as the latter grows discontented that the Jedi are not being more directly involved in offensive assaults in the war.

Only the main films have been heavily parodied and talked about. I don't see enough references to Jaxxon and Waywa Fybot in my life honestly.