vranir said:
Feedback for the first 45 minutes:
- I don’t love the new text introducing the second age. It seems too on-the-nose, especially if the films are viewed chronologically.
This I did for the people like my girlfriend, who find all the different Ages and time periods a tad confusing. I think it very simply sets the time period, should there be any confusion, and is short and sweet enough to be ignored by educated fans.
- The transition from the paper boat to Finrod is abrupt. Is that the best line to enter on? Could music smooth the transition more?
I’ve found no issue with this, but did prolong the music a tad longer for a longer fade out and fade in.
- I still don’t love Finrod’s advice and would like to see the whisper removed so that we instead get his follow-up response of “You must learn to discern for yourself.”
It’s retarded, yes, but it does at least establish some sort of lesson and interaction with her brother, and removing it felt too short (which I did try some weeks ago). It’s retarded, but it… is kinda necessary. And some people, like my girlfriend, found no issue - or at least never commented on it. I think it’s a line that bugs you if you start thinking about it, but still - with so much sillyness removed overall - it’s a tiny bit of sillyness in a film mostly restricted to the better parts of the story.
- Why is Finrod expecting to not always be there? I don’t understand why that line exists and think it undermines the whole no-death paradise vibe of Valinor.
I agree, but I feel as he delivers the line he simply suspects something evil or dark is brooding, and he is perhaps preparing for a war. It’s a subtle way to tell his sister “the times are changing”.
- Could we trim the line about the symbol being one that “even our wisest couldn’t discern?” Just cut it after she says that Sauron marked his flesh.
Yes! Good idea! Especially since i remove the importance of this mark to anything but “a mark of evil”.
- I had a lot of mixed feelings about the frozen fortress sequence, but I suspect that the important parts will be revisited eventually in season 2. I think your cut and transition is perfect. It keeps ends the prologue with a similar tone to Fellowship and tells us everything we need to know.
Agreed. Cheers.
- The Elrond and Galadriel scene is much better without the ice scenes. It now introduces the characters fully and gives us new information about what Galadriel has been doing.
Agreed, again.
- The transition to the Southlands feels like an abrupt cutoff of the Lindon sequence. I’d like more time there before moving on. This was a major issue for me with the series too, especially early on, too many skips between plot threads in close proximity. And then this sequence too is over almost as soon as it starts and we’re back to Lindon. It leaves me almost dizzy and not feeling invested in either story.
I did prolong the Lindon Sequence. It now cuts after the coronation scene.
- To show the passage of time between the ceremony and the night, would it be better to move up part of Gil Galad and Elrond’s conversation about Galadriel? I realize that this might also require scrapping the initial intro of Celebrimor or using part of this scene later (or as a voiceover?).
The Introduction of The Southlands, that now happen in-between, work as this now. I like the original structure, although it needed some more time passage (which I now think it has).
- The jumping back and forth continues to bug me. There seems to be no good point at which to introduce the Southlands story.
Should be better, now that Lindon and Southlands scenes are both prolonged with about 1-2 minutes each between them, to make less intense pacing and more room for breathing and getting to know the characters better.
- The reduction of Arondir and Bronwyn at her house works well. It doesn’t remove their relationship, but it implies that he is officially there on business.
Agreed.
- More jumping back and forth, sort of implying the passage of time and sort of not.
Already adressed this.
- I wish that the leaf falling and Gil Galad picking it up was earlier, like at the night of the farewell party. That way we’d get it clearly as part of his thinking that he explains to Elrond.
Could work, but I like the structure. I don’t want too much evil foreshadowing before Galadriel has left, as to not make Elrond seem foolish for preventing her from leaving (when he just promised to fight for her in her place, if the evil was at large). It works for Gil-Galad to only have this revelation, and not keep it a secret, AFTER Elrond has left with Celebrimbor.
- Musically the arrival of the Stranger is linked to Galadriel jumping off the boat, but I’m not sure that it really serves her story to break away like that. In keeping with my prior point, what if we had the ceremony, Gil Galad taking w Elrond, the fireworks, Elrond talking w Galadriel, then Gil Galad and the leaf, followed by the meteor that same night? We could then break away to the Harfoot story while we allow the boat time to cross the sea.
I like the structure as is, but I think this could work.
- The introduction of the Harfoots with Nori seeing the meteor and then she and Poppy approaching the Stranger works surprisingly well. It doesn’t feel like much background is missing.
Good to hear! Cheers. I feel it flows very organically.
- Why is there a location map shot in the transition from Nori to Nori and Poppy wheeling the Stranger away? It breaks the momentum and makes me think that we’re changing story threads again.
It was to keep consistent with the establishing shots prior, but I suspected it to be potentially jarring to some. I removed it.
- Consider the number of day night transitions in the Southlands story. Arondir and Bronwyn leave in the day, arrive late in the day at the destroyed village, watch the meteor, scout the village at night, and then she runs back to town in day, while Theo tends a fire indoors (in day?), she arrives at the tavern in day, fights the Orc in day, tells the people at the tavern about it at night, and then packs to leave the next morning? The time passage here is a problem in the original, but it’d be worth trying to smooth out where possible.
I don’t find any of this an issue, tbh, as it’s much worse in the original show and now much of the problems with the shifts is at least tidied up. Also, not every scene should SHOW that night/day has changed. I think it’s fairly easy to assume that between some scenes a day has passed, and others perhaps two or three. This happens in almost every adventure movie ever, Lord of the Rings included. Sometimes, like in The Two Towers, every Rohan scene is almost daylight. But we’d be foolish to assume it’s only been one or two days. I think the same goes for the edit, at least for the most part.
The reason it was a huge problem in the show’s original structure, imo, was because they changed between night and day on same-events. So, Character A could be talking about Problem, and then Character a could continue to talk about problem in the scene right after as if no time has passed, but there was just a scene at nighttime in-between the two scenes. Then it becomes rather confusing. That, and the intense jump-to-location that suffer the two first episodes, like right from Lindon to Elf-Smith Town to Khazad-Dum.
- I’m not sure it works to shorten Arondir’s trip through the tunnels, especially skipping the part where he enters the water.
Cut 8 more seconds. Already cut like 1 minute here. But I agree, it still went a tad too long after the water.
- The abbreviated raft sequence works well, though without the racism and disinterest in working with Galadriel, it makes her abandonment of the other people seem pretty cold.
Cheers. I think she’s just thinking about herself here, realizing a giant sea worm isn’t going to go gentle on her if she returns.
- I understand the desire to tighten the Orc in house fight, but it seems like parts are clearly missing. People change position too quickly multiple times. It’s very noticeable.
I find only the last 10 seconds jarring, on a 100th view. But you’re right. I realize it’s a tad bit too jump-y. I’ve fixed this up now, I believe. Still removed a lot of the silly antics, like the rope.
- The onset of the storm is too sudden. Even though the original had an overly quick transition, this comes out of nowhere and feels like something is missing. I’d say cut the whole storm sequence except that it’s used to very good effect in the finale with her sinking and Halbrand not saving her. Im guessing that there would be issues doing this cohesively, but would it be possible to skip the sea monster and imply that Galadriel is sinking on her own, then is rescued by Halbrand and his raft?
Here I disagree. A random storm at sea is not unusual, especially in storytelling, and it builds on the suspense momentum from the very previous scene (Orc Reveal/Attack).
- Again, I see that you’re trying to cut the fat, but there are too many questions in this edit about why Theo has that sword hilt. You need the earlier scene, maybe even in place of this one, to introduce it.
The implication here is that the Orc that attacked them had that Blade, and Theo kept it. My girlfriend, who doesn’t know the original structure, assumed this as well. I think therefore it really works. Knowing the original structure, we don’t imply due to facts, and therefore this can be an issue. I think it works, and would rather not have that awful, silly tavern scene.
- The scene where the Numenorean ship finds Galadriel and Halbrand is very short and seems disconnected from the scenes around it.
How so? There was just a storm, a ship finds them, momentum and suspense keep building, and then we end the First Act’s suspense thread in the very next scene with Theo’s hilt/blade. I’ve found no issue and had no complaints, but I’m open to a suggestion here definitely. I just think it works.
Summary of Thoughts So Far
- Taking this roughly 9 hour season and turning it into a 3 hour movie is an ambitious project. You’ve done a good job weeding through the content to pull out the most important parts. Your decision to skip the ice fortress worked very well, but not every omission was that clean. You’ve lost some of the connective tissue that is needed in order for some moments to make sense.
Thank you for that. Yes, it’s an immense task, and I think I’ve adressed - due to your terrific feedback - many of the First Act issues that were, at least for me and upon realization. I now think it’s much stronger.
- You set out to make Galadriel less antagonistic and more dignified. I think you’ve succeeded this far.
Cheers.
- One of the biggest challenges in any adaption of this content is the juggling of so many plot threads. Here, as in the series, I find that the story often jumps too frequently snd dramatically for me to follow or fully invest in the characters and events. At the same time, I understand that separating the threads out can lead to awkwardly long amounts of time away. Some of that could be managed if the cutaways were to happen during travel, like while Galadriel is en route to Valinor or while the Numenoreans are sailing to Middle Earth.
Should be improved a lot. The time passage for Act II and III work very well, I believe, and think you will too (when you get there).
- Bottom line, this is a rough cut of a very complex project. I’m very glad that you are working on this. I’ll finish watching this version and continue to watch the thread to see where this one-film edit ends up. Thank you for sharing your work and for being the first to take up this epic task.
Cheers, friend. ❤️
