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Yotsuya's Saga Preservation and Restoration

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I’m working on a massive project. Only as I’ve started to have some success has the shape of it solidified so that I can describe what I intend.

What I imagine for my library (and those I know personally that I can burn discs for) is a set of 6 50 GB Blu-rays. Each film contained on a single disc. The main feature on each is a restored and color corrected version of the Blu-ray. The additional features that fill the other half of the blu-ray will vary, but will include the theatrical version(s) of the film.

Star Wars is the challenge. While it is the shortest of the 6 films, it features the most variety in versions. It will probably dictate the bitrate of the rest of the set. I want to include the original theatrical version, the 1981 rerelease, and the 1997 SE. If I was leaving those in SD, it would be simple, but I’ve been able to enhance them and in doing so they really are best seen at 720p (downscaling them to DVD widescreen sd diminishes the quality. So that will be a total of 4 version of the video of the film, the mono soundtrack, and stereo and surround versions of each of the audio edits. The main feature will technically be a hybrid of the DVD and Blu-ray version (Blu-ray audio and run time with a reversion of the edits to the DVD version while keeping many of the fixes) while restoring the color and as many of the issue that I have the ability to address.

Disc 1
A New Hope
Restored with 2011 audio track (5.1 mix and 2 channel Dolby Surround matrix downmix)
1977 Premier version - Dolby Stereo and 4.1 surround mix
1981 rerelease version - mono mix, 1977 Dolby Stereo and 4.1 Surround mix, 1985 Dolby Stereo and X.1 Surround mix, 1993 Stereo and 5.1 Surround mix
(edit: now leaning toward including all 4 visual edits using angles, the 77 premier, the 77 general, the 80’s home video, and the 81/93 rerelease version)
1997 SE - Dolby Stereo, 5.1 Surround mix

Disc 2
The Empire Strikes Back
Restored with 2011 audio track (5.1 mix and 2 channel Dolby Surround matrix downmix)
1980 theatrical version - 1980 Mono, Dolby Stereo and 4.1 surround mix, 1993 Dolby Stereo and 5.1 surround mix
1997 SE - Dolby Stereo, 5.1 Surround mix
The Making of Star Wars
The Star Wars Holiday Special
FX of The Empire Strikes Back

Disc 3
Return of the Jedi
Restored with 2011 audio track (5.1 mix and 2 channel Dolby Surround matrix downmix)
1983 theatrical version - 1983 Dolby Stereo and 4.1 surround mix, 1993 Dolby Stereo and 5.1 surround mix
1997 SE - Dolby Stereo, 5.1 Surround mix
Classic Creatures: Making Return of the Jedi
From Star Wars to Jedi, the Making of a Saga
Empire of Dreams

Disc 4
The Phantom Menace
Restored with 2011 audio track (5.1 mix and 2 channel Dolby Surround matrix downmix)
1999 theatrical version - Dolby Stereo and 5.1 surround mix
unknown extras

Disc 5
Attack of the Clones
Restored with 2011 audio track (5.1 mix and 2 channel Dolby Surround matrix downmix)
2002 theatrical version - Dolby Stereo and 5.1 surround mix
unknown extras

Disc 6
Revenge of the Sith
Restored with 2011 audio track (5.1 mix and 2 channel Dolby Surround matrix downmix)
2005 Theatrical version - Dolby Stereo and 5.1 surround mix (likely restored to match the leaked version with the leaked version as an additional bonus)
unknown extras

Disc 7? - maybe

Sources:
2006 UK GOUT (not missing frames like the US GOUT is)
recreation of the 77 end credits based on Moth3r’s bootleg and Puggo Grand
recreation/remaster of the 1981 opening crawl sequence
Audio from LD and GOUT with 4.1 and 5.1 extracted from Dolby matrix encoding
SE from Gkar and TB with audio from DTS
TPM theatrical from TB and ORF with audio from DTS
AOTC Camera print (for speeder elements and Anakin’s hand) with audio from DTS
ROTS leaked theatrical version at 640x288 (no end credits) with audio from DTS
HD broadcast of DVD versions
Blu-ray discs
DVDs of 2011 blu-ray version (for 5.1 mix)
other sources as needed

For my own viewing I detest dubs so outside of one unique language version, there will be subtitles, no dubs (Also no room). I might include isolated scores if there is room.

Update: GOUT color corrected. Working on some fixes to some bad DNR scenes in ANH (1st draft done, working on improving the end result). TESB and ROTJ SE are color corrected. ANH is full of issues but is nearing completion. DTS audio for SE and PT complete along with a Dolby Stereo mixdown. 93 OT audio from faces set complete. Still working on original theatrical and ANH 85 mixes (finding lots of cuts in the audio that need to be patched so using a Dolby ProLogic decoder could result in some momentary dual surround channels, but shouldn’t be noticable). DTS audio is 5.0, as are the surround extracts of the Dolby Stereo tracks. LFE channel calculated from surround channels per Dolby theatrical decoding standards. Some people have expressed concerned on the quality of the 2011 mixes so I might patch/restore those if I think it is necessary. If so, I will have to figure out which audio sources to use (obviously I prefer the 2011 mix due to the issues in the 2004 mix so the 2004 mix wouldn’t even be considered, but there are multiple versions of the 2011 mix and I would source any replacements from the 97 SE DTS audio).

This post has been edited.

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One thing I would like to include that I need help with is the proper THX intro for the SE. I remember that it was Tex, but I can’t remember if it was Tex working on the logo or Tex with the moo can. Anyone have some concrete info on this?

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For star wars 2011/2004 audio I would honestly just use the 97 mix and just splice in the few content changes because the 2011 mix is basically just a horribly butchered 97 mix where they pulled every line of dialogue from a different source with very few content changes.

^ Needs to pull the stick out.

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I’d love to see the “original original” versions of the 1977 credits! Will you include also the cloudless composite during the “leaving Yavin 4” sequence for this version?
I’d love to see all the existing versions in “as good as possible” quality, so your plan sounds exciting.

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pittrek said:

I’d love to see the “original original” versions of the 1977 credits! Will you include also the cloudless composite during the “leaving Yavin 4” sequence for this version?
I’d love to see all the existing versions in “as good as possible” quality, so your plan sounds exciting.

I’m going for as complete as possible. Until someone gets their hands on some of the film elements to scan them, portions of the SE, TPM, and AOTC will never be better than enhanced SD. That is why I’m using the GOUT. Number one it is complete and number two it is essentially the same quality as the SE and TPM.

And I don’t have any element to make the cloudless composite. I’ve heard of it, but there really isn’t anything different in the versions I have in my library. I have several LD archived versions, but Puggo and Moth3r’s are the only ones so far that I’ve found with the different credits and the quality is such that I can’t see anything different.

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Possessed said:

For star wars 2011/2004 audio I would honestly just use the 97 mix and just splice in the few content changes because the 2011 mix is basically just a horribly butchered 97 mix where they pulled every line of dialogue from a different source with very few content changes.

According to Ben Burtt, he went back to the original sources. And that much splicing of 5.1 audio is more work than it is worth. Except for Beru remaining unchanged, ANH is closer to the mono mix than any previous mix so it is closer to what I consider the definitive mix than the 97 SE.

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yotsuya said:

pittrek said:

I’d love to see the “original original” versions of the 1977 credits! Will you include also the cloudless composite during the “leaving Yavin 4” sequence for this version?
I’d love to see all the existing versions in “as good as possible” quality, so your plan sounds exciting.

I’m going for as complete as possible. Until someone gets their hands on some of the film elements to scan them, portions of the SE, TPM, and AOTC will never be better than enhanced SD. That is why I’m using the GOUT. Number one it is complete and number two it is essentially the same quality as the SE and TPM.

And I don’t have any element to make the cloudless composite. I’ve heard of it, but there really isn’t anything different in the versions I have in my library. I have several LD archived versions, but Puggo and Moth3r’s are the only ones so far that I’ve found with the different credits and the quality is such that I can’t see anything different.

Taken from here :
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Credits-and-Leaders-Thread/id/12960

‘Draft’ - 1977 opening day prints
pre-ANH widescreen bootleg (mthr)
pre-ANH bootleg ‘PS77-78?’ (AntcuFaalb)
16mm English (PuggoGrande)
16mm English (Catnap)

And this thread : http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Print-variations-in-77-Star-Wars/id/14705
claims that

The “cloudy composite” version can be seen in:
35mm Widescreen bootleg (Moth3r)
35mm Widescreen bootleg (AntcuFaalb)
16mm (PuggoGrande)
16mm (Catnap)
Super 8 Derann
NTSC home video versions '82 - '92
PAL home video versions '82 - '91
UK ITV Broadcast version (1982)

This post has been edited.

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yotsuya said:

Possessed said:

For star wars 2011/2004 audio I would honestly just use the 97 mix and just splice in the few content changes because the 2011 mix is basically just a horribly butchered 97 mix where they pulled every line of dialogue from a different source with very few content changes.

According to Ben Burtt, he went back to the original sources. And that much splicing of 5.1 audio is more work than it is worth. Except for Beru remaining unchanged, ANH is closer to the mono mix than any previous mix so it is closer to what I consider the definitive mix than the 97 SE.

Yeah but it sounds like garbage. Even the 93 mix sounds better. The dialogue is the biggest problem but there’s an overall harshness and shrill sound. There’s several scenes where every line of dialogue was pulled from a different source and SOME lines will sound fine then the very next line will sound terrible. Example: trash compactor scene. “Absolutely your worship look I had everything under control until you led us down here!” Sounds like it was from a battered cassette tape that’s been sitting in the heat since 1977, while the very next line (which occurs less than a second latero and by the same person) “you know it’s not gonna take them long…” sounds crystal clear. It’s extremely jarring. Perhaps it would be easier to just cut in the center channel from the 97 for scenes with those issues.

^ Needs to pull the stick out.

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I concur that the '97 mix sounds better than the '11 mix. There’s even Cinema DTS soundtracks for them out there that you can utilize.

If Funimation responded to critics of the Orange Bricks…

“We are always impressed with how closely fans watch the many different versions we have made for the Dragon Ball series over the years. It is flattering to know that, indeed, the audience is watching. Consequently, each version comes out differently and any changes that you see on the all-new 1080p high-definition transfer of the original Japanese masters on the Dragon Ball Z Season Set One DVD are deliberate creative decisions. We can confirm that there are no technical glitches as has been reported.”

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Well, I will certainly consider it, but the 97 SE mix requires a lot of editing. I personally have not found the 2011 mix to have any issues and all I have to do to use that is just extract it. The 2011 mix is the closest of all the the ANH mixes to the 77 mono mix (ignoring for the moment that it has all the SE modifications). As my dream mix is a 5.1 surround version of the mono mix, that is as close as I can get without doing it myself. The 2004 mix of the SE OT has some surround issues and other problems that make it the most inferior and ignorable set of audio mixes.

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clutchins said:

There’s even Cinema DTS soundtracks for them out there that you can utilize.

I just got hit up for the set. I am the only seeder for them on myspleen at this point too.

“Collective fear stimulates herd instinct, and tends to produce ferocity toward those who are not regarded as members of the herd.”
― Bertrand Russell, Unpopular Essays

“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.”

― Socrates

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Jetrell Fo said:

clutchins said:

There’s even Cinema DTS soundtracks for them out there that you can utilize.

I just got hit up for the set. I am the only seeder for them on myspleen at this point too.

You shouldn’t be, I have the 97 dts mix seeding too. I’m using the torrent called 97se-dts-v4? I’m not sure how torrents work so it might not be showing me as a seeder because I only downloaded ANH and ROTJ. (ESB 2011 mix is fine by me other than a few content changes that I just splice in the 93 mix for personal viewing) But nevertheless I am seeding the ANH and ROTJ on that torrent.

As for the 2011 mix not having issues, it’s mainly dialogue. Check the trash compactor scene for the easiest indicator. “Absolutely your worship…” and “You know it’s not gonna take 'em long to figure out…” have DRASTICALLY different audio quality from each other despite coming in back to back and to me it’s always been extremely jarring. No other mix has that. “It’s not gonna take them long” sounds really good while “Absolutely your worship” sounds worse than a vhs tape. Way worse. This is a problem that occurs throughout the movie but this is the easiest to illustrate. The 97 mix does not have this problem at all. In fact no other mix has this problem. It also has a better balance of music and sound effects.

^ Needs to pull the stick out.

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The one Jetrell Fo so kindly reseeded is the raw wav extract of the DTS discs. Exactly what I was looking for.

As for the quality of the mixes, the 97 mix is just the good old OOT 93 mix with additions (but the added benefit of being in the original separate channels for full 5 channel surround sound). The 2001 version is remixed from the original elements. That particular edit sounds deliberate to me with the first line being lower than in previous mixes. I will have to check out the quality part when I can listen to it with headphones.

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pittrek said:

yotsuya said:

pittrek said:

I’d love to see the “original original” versions of the 1977 credits! Will you include also the cloudless composite during the “leaving Yavin 4” sequence for this version?
I’d love to see all the existing versions in “as good as possible” quality, so your plan sounds exciting.

I’m going for as complete as possible. Until someone gets their hands on some of the film elements to scan them, portions of the SE, TPM, and AOTC will never be better than enhanced SD. That is why I’m using the GOUT. Number one it is complete and number two it is essentially the same quality as the SE and TPM.

And I don’t have any element to make the cloudless composite. I’ve heard of it, but there really isn’t anything different in the versions I have in my library. I have several LD archived versions, but Puggo and Moth3r’s are the only ones so far that I’ve found with the different credits and the quality is such that I can’t see anything different.

Taken from here :
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Credits-and-Leaders-Thread/id/12960

‘Draft’ - 1977 opening day prints
pre-ANH widescreen bootleg (mthr)
pre-ANH bootleg ‘PS77-78?’ (AntcuFaalb)
16mm English (PuggoGrande)
16mm English (Catnap)

And this thread : http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Print-variations-in-77-Star-Wars/id/14705
claims that

The “cloudy composite” version can be seen in:
35mm Widescreen bootleg (Moth3r)
35mm Widescreen bootleg (AntcuFaalb)
16mm (PuggoGrande)
16mm (Catnap)
Super 8 Derann
NTSC home video versions '82 - '92
PAL home video versions '82 - '91
UK ITV Broadcast version (1982)

Well, you have sent me on an editing spree. I found three shots (all effects shots) that are different - in each in reels 3, 5, and 6. I am still looking for others. But those are the same three the other thread discussed. As they all have imperfections and are archived in PuggoGrand, I think it is safe to say they would have been there on opening day. I will have to incorporate them into my edit. I think I’ll also use the 35 mm crawl. I think the fade out in reel one is also longer. I still have to check other versions before I confirm that. Right now I’m using JSC for the elements and confirming them with SWE and Puggo.

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yotsuya said:

The one Jetrell Fo so kindly reseeded is the raw wav extract of the DTS discs. Exactly what I was looking for.

As for the quality of the mixes, the 97 mix is just the good old OOT 93 mix with additions (but the added benefit of being in the original separate channels for full 5 channel surround sound). The 2001 version is remixed from the original elements. That particular edit sounds deliberate to me with the first line being lower than in previous mixes. I will have to check out the quality part when I can listen to it with headphones.

Well it’s not just that it’s lower it’s also equalised completely different and sounds like an old battered cassette tape or something. Very muffled and muddy sounding. Not so in other mixes. You are right about the 97 being mostly just a more discrete 93 mix though, but to me it just sounds better. The 2011 mixes for esb and rotj sound great though.

Some of tarkins lines sound off too. Vader sounds better than ever though.

This post has been edited.

^ Needs to pull the stick out.

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Well, if it is just ANH, and mostly isolated lines, I might have to add it to the list of things to restore. If I do that, I don’t think I can resist restoring Beru’s lines to the mono mix version. As much as you are complaining about the mixing of the 2011 mix, her lines have always sounded horribly mixed to me.

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yotsuya said:

Well, if it is just ANH, and mostly isolated lines, I might have to add it to the list of things to restore. If I do that, I don’t think I can resist restoring Beru’s lines to the mono mix version. As much as you are complaining about the mixing of the 2011 mix, her lines have always sounded horribly mixed to me.

Yeah, to me it’s just ANH. ESB and ROTJ sound fine.

Here’s some mp3’s for comparison. Both are completely untouched other than downmixing to stereo (didn’t bother doing a “proper” dolby stereo downmix since we’re just listening for dialogue)

2011: http://tindeck.com/listen/jpxig

1997: http://tindeck.com/listen/dfvgx

Note the distortion in the dialogue and the flat overall acoustics in the 2011 version. Not to mention inconsistent quality, and a lack of high end. These are both equally compressed so while neither are fully representative, they still show which is superior. In my opinion anyway, the 1997 blows the 2011 out of the water in every respect.

The sound effects and music aren’t noticeably terrible in 2011, but they still sounds better in the 1997 mix. The 2011 mix is very dull and shrill sounding and doesn’t have enough treble, while the 97’mix sounds full and vibrant.

This post has been edited.

^ Needs to pull the stick out.

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yotsuya said:

pittrek said:

yotsuya said:

pittrek said:

I’d love to see the “original original” versions of the 1977 credits! Will you include also the cloudless composite during the “leaving Yavin 4” sequence for this version?
I’d love to see all the existing versions in “as good as possible” quality, so your plan sounds exciting.

I’m going for as complete as possible. Until someone gets their hands on some of the film elements to scan them, portions of the SE, TPM, and AOTC will never be better than enhanced SD. That is why I’m using the GOUT. Number one it is complete and number two it is essentially the same quality as the SE and TPM.

And I don’t have any element to make the cloudless composite. I’ve heard of it, but there really isn’t anything different in the versions I have in my library. I have several LD archived versions, but Puggo and Moth3r’s are the only ones so far that I’ve found with the different credits and the quality is such that I can’t see anything different.

Taken from here :
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Credits-and-Leaders-Thread/id/12960

‘Draft’ - 1977 opening day prints
pre-ANH widescreen bootleg (mthr)
pre-ANH bootleg ‘PS77-78?’ (AntcuFaalb)
16mm English (PuggoGrande)
16mm English (Catnap)

And this thread : http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Print-variations-in-77-Star-Wars/id/14705
claims that

The “cloudy composite” version can be seen in:
35mm Widescreen bootleg (Moth3r)
35mm Widescreen bootleg (AntcuFaalb)
16mm (PuggoGrande)
16mm (Catnap)
Super 8 Derann
NTSC home video versions '82 - '92
PAL home video versions '82 - '91
UK ITV Broadcast version (1982)

Well, you have sent me on an editing spree. I found three shots (all effects shots) that are different - in each in reels 3, 5, and 6. I am still looking for others. But those are the same three the other thread discussed. As they all have imperfections and are archived in PuggoGrand, I think it is safe to say they would have been there on opening day. I will have to incorporate them into my edit. I think I’ll also use the 35 mm crawl. I think the fade out in reel one is also longer. I still have to check other versions before I confirm that. Right now I’m using JSC for the elements and confirming them with SWE and Puggo.

Not sure if you meant it as a good thing or a bad thing, but I’m personally glad you will include the changes 😃

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pittrek said:

yotsuya said:

pittrek said:

yotsuya said:

pittrek said:

I’d love to see the “original original” versions of the 1977 credits! Will you include also the cloudless composite during the “leaving Yavin 4” sequence for this version?
I’d love to see all the existing versions in “as good as possible” quality, so your plan sounds exciting.

I’m going for as complete as possible. Until someone gets their hands on some of the film elements to scan them, portions of the SE, TPM, and AOTC will never be better than enhanced SD. That is why I’m using the GOUT. Number one it is complete and number two it is essentially the same quality as the SE and TPM.

And I don’t have any element to make the cloudless composite. I’ve heard of it, but there really isn’t anything different in the versions I have in my library. I have several LD archived versions, but Puggo and Moth3r’s are the only ones so far that I’ve found with the different credits and the quality is such that I can’t see anything different.

Taken from here :
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Credits-and-Leaders-Thread/id/12960

‘Draft’ - 1977 opening day prints
pre-ANH widescreen bootleg (mthr)
pre-ANH bootleg ‘PS77-78?’ (AntcuFaalb)
16mm English (PuggoGrande)
16mm English (Catnap)

And this thread : http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Print-variations-in-77-Star-Wars/id/14705
claims that

The “cloudy composite” version can be seen in:
35mm Widescreen bootleg (Moth3r)
35mm Widescreen bootleg (AntcuFaalb)
16mm (PuggoGrande)
16mm (Catnap)
Super 8 Derann
NTSC home video versions '82 - '92
PAL home video versions '82 - '91
UK ITV Broadcast version (1982)

Well, you have sent me on an editing spree. I found three shots (all effects shots) that are different - in each in reels 3, 5, and 6. I am still looking for others. But those are the same three the other thread discussed. As they all have imperfections and are archived in PuggoGrand, I think it is safe to say they would have been there on opening day. I will have to incorporate them into my edit. I think I’ll also use the 35 mm crawl. I think the fade out in reel one is also longer. I still have to check other versions before I confirm that. Right now I’m using JSC for the elements and confirming them with SWE and Puggo.

Not sure if you meant it as a good thing or a bad thing, but I’m personally glad you will include the changes 😃

Well, I was aware of the cloud shot, but I did not realize the fighter specs had completely different timing. I also had no clue about the other two shots. But now that I know they are different, I need to make a comparison video so I can watch it and see the differences and see if I can find any more. So the end result will be good, but in the short term it means reopening a project I thought I had finished.

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My god, I never realized just how awful the 2011 mix sounded. Has anyone ever attempted to sync the '97 DTS files for ANH to the Blu-rays? I’d imagine it would only be missing a few frames here and there, but would be doable.

This post has been edited.

“That said, there is nothing wrong with mocking prequel lovers and belittling their bad taste.” - Alderaan, 2017

MGGA (Make GOUT Great Again):
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Return-of-the-GOUT-Preservation-and-Restoration

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There were some attempts:

  1. Our member, nightstalkerpoet, uploaded on the 'spleen a DTS file of the Cinema DTS '97 theatrical sound mix of ANH sync’d to the Blu Ray. But, at this time, there are no seeders.

  2. There was this STAR WARS (AHN)- RESPECIALIZED EDITION '97 which is a presentation of ANH: Special Edition '97 that features, among the audio options, the 1997 theatrical sound mix from the CinemaDTS CD-ROMs

This post has been edited.

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I did it for my own personal viewing as well, but I also cut in the entire mos eisley sequence from despecialized ( color matched and upscaled to match the surrounding footage from the blu rays) and I no longer have the synced-but-not-edited file. However once you get past the initial syncing at the beginning there are only two places where it goes out of sync that I remember. (Which is to say there might be more that I’ve forgotten since I did it).

When it fades to black on tatooine I think you have to add some extra frames of silence to keep sync, and you also will have to resync after the han/greedo shootout because they changed the timing on that as well.

Also anybody that wants the version I’ve thrown together I’d be happy to share as well. 2011 video but with telecine7s re rotoscoped lasers, the 97 sound mix, audio patched in from adywans to fix the audio cut on the sand people scene, and entire mos eisley original. (Including greedo never shooting and no jabba scene) I doubt I’ll ever share it publicly though as I doubt the demand is very high for something like this. Also its mpeg2 because it works better on my system. (But it’s bd-25 sized at an average of about 22 mbps and it still looks great even on a huge screen. Mpeg4 is much better for smaller bitrates but once you get up to around 20 mbps I think they are pretty close and mpg2 loads quicker on my system. Also sound is unfortunately 448 kbps 5.1 ac3 but it’s sourced from the dts track so it’s still better than the dolby track that’s on the laserdisc as it’s less compressed and it’s much better than even the dts 2011 mix)

^ Needs to pull the stick out.

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I’ll have to look into it. I’ve never hosted a torrent before. Downloaded many and always seed but never made my own. Should I upload the full mpg file or make a smaller mp4? Probably both.

We should probably continue this discussion somewhere else though don’t want to derail this thread anymore.

This post has been edited.

^ Needs to pull the stick out.

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