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The Hobbit (2014) - Resource and idea thread — Page 2

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doubleofive said:

Peter Jackson on the two-film edit:

The split was going to occur where Bard [Luke Evans] appears on the river bank as a silhouetted figure with a bow. So the whole barrel sequence was going to be the climax.



Just in case someone wants to re-create the alternate universe two-movie edit.

 I find that a really weird place to split the story, it's way unbalanced in terms of story to cover between two films.  If that's the case, I'd prefer the trilogy just for the more even pace, even if bloated.

But yeah, Smaug is pretty freaking awesome.  Best CGI since Gollumn.

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Even before the first of this three-film disaster was released, I knew that the only way to undo the damage would be to massively re-edit them all down into one film, cutting out everything that isn't actually in the book and restoring a proper pace and momentum to the story.

As it stands, the whole thing is just an exercise in how to pad something out for length far beyond the point where it even makes sense anymore, as well as a blatant money-making grab by the studio.  I consider it a shameful mistreatment of Tolkien's story.

Since there is some good stuff in there, nearly buried under the weight of Jackson's foolishness but nonetheless apparent, pruning it down to the essentials would certainly result in one film's worth of watchable material.  I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who had this idea, and once all the movies have been released I'd love to see a project like this happen.

I do have to admit that Benedict Cumberbatch as the dragon's voice is an inspired choice.  ;)

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hairy_hen said:

Even before the first of this three-film disaster was released, I knew that the only way to undo the damage would be to massively re-edit them all down into one film, cutting out everything that isn't actually in the book and restoring a proper pace and momentum to the story.

As it stands, the whole thing is just an exercise in how to pad something out for length far beyond the point where it even makes sense anymore, as well as a blatant money-making grab by the studio.  I consider it a shameful mistreatment of Tolkien's story.

Since there is some good stuff in there, nearly buried under the weight of Jackson's foolishness but nonetheless apparent, pruning it down to the essentials would certainly result in one film's worth of watchable material.  I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who had this idea, and once all the movies have been released I'd love to see a project like this happen.

I do have to admit that Benedict Cumberbatch as the dragon's voice is an inspired choice.  ;)

 ^ This!  We should all be thankful Jackson did in fact make three films.  All the more material to pull from for a Hobbit book version.

If anyone else had made the movie and it wasn't up to par, we would just be stuck with that.  This gives me great hope.

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I don't think it was a bad idea trying to tell the story in the appendices of the LOTR amongst the Hobbit story.

I think what it all boils down to is how it has been executed. To say it's a mess and to chop it down to a single film  or 2 films would certainly be an interesting watch of how that would alter our perception of the story on film.

There is certainly some huge chunks I'd chop from the first one.. Perhaps it's worth starting this project now and as the films are released by the time the last one comes out there would be less work to do.

I'd be interested to say the least, of seeing this fall into some shape at the hands of some talented editors here.

And whoever does this please cut down on Jackson's miraculous sequencing of utter nonsence they really pull you out the film. Especially that treetop sequence with the orcs. It's like a carry on film.

This pretty much sums it up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lco9Ki-5qfQ

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One film w/ intermission might be best. It's hard to tell, having seen each of the first two exactly once now just how much is removable without making things confusing.

Also, a fun game to play is to watch the films and try to guess how things were different at some point of production. Things like the whole Bolg/Azog actor changes. Given that Bolg and Azog are both CG, and knowing what they did with Sauron-->Troll in ROTK, I suspect that Legolas's fight at the end of DoS was originally against the earlier version of Azog.

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timdiggerm said:


Also, a fun game to play is to watch the films and try to guess how things were different at some point of production. Things like the whole Bolg/Azog actor changes. Given that Bolg and Azog are both CG, and knowing what they did with Sauron-->Troll in ROTK, I suspect that Legolas's fight at the end of DoS was originally against the earlier version of Azog.
One of the Production Dairies shows some Legolas fighting a guy in a mocap suit, so it was never against the man-in-suit Azog.

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doubleofive said:

timdiggerm said:


Also, a fun game to play is to watch the films and try to guess how things were different at some point of production. Things like the whole Bolg/Azog actor changes. Given that Bolg and Azog are both CG, and knowing what they did with Sauron-->Troll in ROTK, I suspect that Legolas's fight at the end of DoS was originally against the earlier version of Azog.

One of the Production Dairies shows some Legolas fighting a guy in a mocap suit, so it was never against the man-in-suit Azog.

 Oh, good to know. Never mind!

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Hello everyone, this is my first post on these boards but I have been following this site for a while now.

I have begun working on a "purist" version of Peter Jackson's Hobbit trilogy, with the goal of creating a new version that is as faithful to the original book as possible. I have read about a number of other editors making their own versions and I'm sure my edit will be one of several floating around by the time the 3rd film is on video. However, many of the versions being worked on now still plan to include scenes/characters/elements that were not in the book. I'm going to be a bit more judicious with what stays in!

Right now I am planning to compress the trilogy into ONE MOVIE. I am sure that this will make for a long film, but let's not forget that Return of the King Extended Edition was 240 minutes long! My target running time is 200 minutes for JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit (that's the new version title I'm going with).

Anyways, I'm already 90% finished with An Unexpected Journey. Working off a nice Bluray rip with 5.1 audio. The original 170-minute long film has been cut down to about 95 minutes, and that number could change depending on how the other two films cut with this one. After seeing Desolation of Smaug in theaters, I am confident that I can get that film down to an hour. Here are a few things I have changed from An Unexpected Journey:

-No Dale/Erebor prologue

-Bilbo's opening lines remain, but Frodo is removed

-Some dwarf silliness is gone from the Bag End sequence (just a few shots)

-No Radagast or Dol Guldur scenes

-Azanulbizar flashback remains for now, it gives Thorin much-needed depth

-Azog for the most part is gone

-Troll scene is cut down, some silliness is removed

-Daylight Orc chase is gone

-No White Council/Galadriel/Saruman

-Stone Giants stays for now, I may remove it for time later

-All scenes with Gollum are untouched!

-Goblintown escape is cut down drastically, removed CGI silliness

-I have chosen to remove the tree fight/eagle rescue because the scene is too drawn out and Jackson obviously beefed it up late in production in order to have some sort of action climax.

-Film ends with Bilbo meeting back up with the dwarves outside Goblintown, and he still gives his nice little speech. Orcs suddenly show up and the party begins to run...however the beginning of the chase will hopefully segue into the beginning of Desolation of Smaug where they are chased into Beorn's house.

-PLANNED EDITS for Desolation of Smaug:

-No prologue at the Prancing Pony

-No Dol Guldur/Necromancer subplot

-No Radagast

-I will TRY to cut Legolas/Tauriel down but they are fairly integrated into the plot now. Same goes for the Kili romance subplot.

-Barrel chase is too cartoonish, I'll try cutting that down

-Laketown scenes will be shortened

-Smaug playing hide and seek with the dwarves is a bit long

-The whole furnace stoking/molten gold statue is silly, that will go away

-Many more cuts to come, I am sure!

If any of you have ideas/comments/questions, I will happily field them!

JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit

http://www.maple-films.com/the-hobbit-fanedit

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Sounds great!  I have a couple of comments.

I wouldn't necessarily limit yourself to 200 minutes, it just seems arbitrary.  Better to have great scene flow and nice clean edits and let the time fall where it may.  In other words, don't cut something purely for time reasons, cut it because it doesn't belong, or because is doesn't fit properly.

My one suggestion for DoS is to try and get rid of the fact that they basically reveal exactly how the dragon is going to be killed very early on.  My recollection from the book was that there was much more tension about this point and it doesn't all come together until Smaug is attacking Laketown.  I could be remembering wrong though... it's been a while.  Basically, when I was watching the movie, I felt that Smaug didn't really pose a threat since we knew who was going to kill him, where and with exactly what weapon.

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I wouldn't mind keeping the Eagle Rescue, and it seems to be one of those things that people remember most from the book. I think that scene it could be cut down pretty well to just wargs, fire and eagles.

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I've been having a go at this over the last couple of days. My rough cut of the first film comes in at 103 minutes (without credits). That's mostly been chopping whole scenes, although a number of times I've had to make fiddlier snips. That's just a first pass, though; I've been as generous as I can, with a view to cutting more later. I'll watch it through to see how the pacing goes, and try to shave off another half hour or so if I can.

Changes so far (that I can remember):

  • Prologue completely gone (might use prologue from part 2 as a prologue; we need something to precede "good morning")
  • Unexpected Party trimmed
  • Troll scene trimmed for childishness
  • Radagast severely trimmed (He shows up, quick flashback to Dol Guldur, then he dashes off; the extended chase scene is cut)
  • No flashbacks to battle with Azog
  • Rivendell trimmed; no White Council
  • Stone giants completely gone and not missed
  • Stupid CGI in Goblin-town gone; Great Goblin trimmed.
  • Gollum introduction edited because as it stands it assumes the audience knows him; I want to introduce him more gradually and make him creepier for the audience who hasn't seen LOTR. This will need more work for continuity and pacing.
  • Goblin chase almost completely gone — they start to run, it cuts back to Bilbo, next we see is the escape from the mountain. No stupid CGI.
  • Azog completely cut until the pine-tree battle, and then cut down to be just another Orc. Thorin gets left behind or thrown out of his tree — we don't see — and they only realise when not!Azog's warg attacks him.

I may cut down Thorin's mistrusting-Bilbo arc, which was quite exaggerated from the book, in which case I can cut down the last battle even more, eliminate Azog, and lose a minute or two elsewhere.

I haven't actually seen the second film yet, so I'm not sure what I'll be able to do with it, but at the very least I'll try to eliminate Legolas and Tauriel and Smaug's golden shower.

The Hobbit: Roadshow Edition

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Going into The Desolation of Smaug, I thought for sure that the Legolas/Tauriel bits were going to get the axe in my imaginary one movie edit. But I actually liked Tauriel, they actually invented some good material for her. Her speech about starlight was actually rather enchanting, so that at least should stay in. It goes a long way towards painting the elves as more sympathetic.

Most of the Smaug bits after Bilbo's dialogue with him should get the axe though, that gave me Episode 2 flashbacks. It should be pretty easy to do, after all nothing happens to advance character or plot in that section.

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The trouble I'm noticing with removing Azog completely is that he may be too integrated into the Battle of Five Armies by the 3rd movie. It's obvious that he was a late addition to the production, so I'm hoping it won't be too hard to remove him. The Bolg character in the 2nd movie may have to stay because his character introduction is made THROUGH Azog. So we're kind of screwed there.

The whole tree chase/eagle rescue sequence, I feel, is an all-or-nothing kind of thing because you have to show Thorin get hurt, and then when the eagles drop the company off on that mountain the film is clearly building to a conclusion when we really want it to be a continuation into the next scene. With the way I have it set up at the moment, the orcs & wargs begin chasing the dwarves and it will then merge with them running to Beorn's house. No eagles, no pointless anti-climatic showdown between Thorin and Azog. I know the eagles were a part of the book but let's face it, they are a deus ex machina that I think we can all agree get kind of annoying.

JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit

http://www.maple-films.com/the-hobbit-fanedit

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I'm not wedded to keeping the eagles, especially if we can segue from the mountain escape to the beginning of the second film, but my first cut needed to be a real book-purist one. I don't mind if my final cut omits things from the book, so long as it isn't any worse in that respect than the LOTR movies. (I still haven't forgiven Jackson for leaving out THE ENTIRE FUCKING ENDING.)

The Hobbit: Roadshow Edition

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... not to mention Tom Bombadil and Goldberry :-(

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*Cough* Sharky ;)

Obviously they are building towards something with Azog but hopefully he can at the very least be reduced to just another orc.

I'd rather cut the Azog attack and lead straight to the area near Beorn's house - rather than relying on eagles again. iirc they are similar environments.

The opening scene of Smaug is fun but it may feel like an odd fit - and clearly some time passes between it and the meeting ant Bilbo's house. - it might be possible to keep some of Ian's opening narration [depending on the music, i guess]  - just stop short at him telling Frodo things he already knows.

I'd like to lose the 'Good morning' scene but I feel it sets things in motion.

re: Tauriel - I feel the same way, at first I thought she'd be a distracting addition but I quite like her, I'd go so far as to axe other scenes in order to keep her around. Not too sure on the whole romance angle though, wait and see how things play out, I guess.

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The "good morning" scene is very close to how it was written in the book, plus it's necessary to get things rolling!

Yes, Tauriel and Legolas may be difficult to edit around until we see the 3rd movie. However I do think many of the elf scenes can be trimmed regardless. Peter Jackson is trying very hard to make these films into LOTR-level epics but the core story is just not on that level. Focusing on Bilbo and the dwarf company should be the priority.

JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit

http://www.maple-films.com/the-hobbit-fanedit

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If only we could get those four dwarves out of laketown.

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Yeah, that is another challenge but there are pros and cons to the Laketown situation. Having a few dwarves remain in Laketown will make Smaug's attack in the 3rd movie more involving, since we have already invested time into the characters as opposed to Bard and the others who are still relatively new. I actually like that Jackson decided to split the company up in this regard. It will also be nice to still have something to cut back and forth between Laketown and Bilbo.

Still, we need to establish the reason why the four dwarves remain in Laketown, which is because Kili is shot and wounded. Therefore, at least part of the barrel chase must remain. I can easily remove the ridiculous CGI acrobatics of Legolas though. The way he is portrayed in the Hobbit makes you wonder why he couldn't have defeated the army of Mordor singlehandedly. 

JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit

http://www.maple-films.com/the-hobbit-fanedit

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Actually, Kili doesn't have to get shot by the arrow. Those barrels are moving pretty violently. It's safe to assume he might have just been injured from knocking about. As long as you cut all the stuff mentioning a 'Morgul shaft', which was just an unnecessary and clumsy parallel with Frodo in Fellowship (has Jackson become George Lucas?!), then you can still have him recuperating in Lake town but without the stupidly long 'barrel battle'.

Likewise, there's then no need for Tauriel to follow as it's not a life threatening injury that requires Elvish magic to heal, so we can put a stop to this interspecies romance before it goes any further. Then there's no need for the Orc attack on Laketown or seeing any more of fucking LEGOLAS, which I find the most objectionable fan service in this whole mess. 

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I think we can still show Kili being hit with an arrow without mentioning that it is a Morgul shaft. To be honest, I missed that reference completely when I first saw the film, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to remove. That way he can still recover in Laketown, but yes I agree we can cut the whole Tauriel/Legolas in Laketown fighting orcs and healing dwarves with kingsfoil. Silly.

JRR Tolkien's The Hobbit

http://www.maple-films.com/the-hobbit-fanedit

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