logo Sign In

The Unofficial Complete REVISITED SAGA Ideas and Random Discussion Thread — Page 56

Author
Time

There is so much not just stylistically but narratively wrong with Return of the Jedi that I would prefer it to be treated like the PT:R. No sacred tickcows.
The Han rescue currently doesn’t make narrative sense. Yoda’s death scene doesn’t make character arc sense (he waits around for two decades to train a guy for a day or so and then dies mid sentence???)
It’s highly regarded but there are people who regard the prequels in exactly the same way. I’ve met them. The PT was their entry point into the universe and they love it regardless of it’s flaws. I think it’s almost as bad that they don’t have theatrical versions of the films they love to see.
But Revisited isn’t just a better special editions. It’s a series of special editions which attempts to make sense of that which currently doesn’t.
The effort that Ady and his pals put into correcting obvious continuity errors isn’t just for aesthetics, it’s so we are not taken out of the moment by something clearly revealing the art of the film making progress rather than immersing you in a fictional universe.
So I’m all for major changes on ROTJ:R knowing that the special edition of the hour and Harmy will be there to protect the films as they were either originally seen or officially sanctioned.
Nostalgia is served by preservation and reconstruction. This is a different kind of project as far as I understand it.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

^ I’m 100% with Bingowings, here. ROTJ could benefit immensely from a drastic recut. And it’s on that thought, that I offer the following structural suggestions. I had posted this on the “ESB and ROTJ Wish List” thread – but it’s relevant here, too.

STRUCTURAL IDEAS #1 – SPACE BATTLE OPENING

ROTJ’s opening always struck me as the weakest of the original trilogy. It’s incredibly static, and very much like TPM’s opening – a ship docks inside a station, after laborious communications between the pilot and station crew, and then further dialogue goes back and forth (the saving grace being that Vader’s dialogue serves to build anticipation for the Emperor’s reveal). Ultimately, though, it’s nothing we haven’t seen before – it’s terrifically uncinematic, and we learn nothing that we haven’t already gleaned from the opening crawl (except, of course, that the Emperor will be paying a visit). The start of ROTJ just doesn’t move – as opposed to those opening sequences in which a Star Destroyer attacks the Tantive IV, or dispatches numerous probe droids across the galaxy.

So what I propose is this. We overhaul the crawl – which reads like a TV guide synopsis – to propel the narrative from the get-go. I’ve read numerous fan rewrites of ROTJ’s crawl, but I think the draft found on doubleohfive’s blog (https://doubleofive.wordpress.com/rotj-fanedit-wishlist/) is the most appropriate – and very in keeping with the previous crawls. I’ve edited it somewhat, to make the text more economical – I think it reads better:

The Alliance is doomed. Hunted by the Imperial Star Fleet, the rebels have retreated to the rim world of SULLUST to mount a final strike against the tyrannical EMPIRE.

Sensing victory, LORD VADER and his cruel EMPEROR oversee construction of a new battle station – even more powerful than the first dreaded DEATH STAR.

Meanwhile, Luke Skywalker has journeyed to NAL HUTTA to rescue Han Solo from the vile gangster JABBA THE HUTT…

And as an aside, I include “Nal Hutta” only because it’s my greatest wish that Tatooine not feature in this film – ROTJ marks the start of the franchise’s lazy reliance on this planet, and similarly sandy worlds. Along with a more exotically rendered Endor, I think it’d be great if Tatooine could be reimagined as a unique world – a wholly different planet, home to Jabba the Hutt. And while I’m ignorant of the technicalities of achieving such, I imagine that it wouldn’t be impossible – given that this part of the movie largely takes place inside Jabba’s Palace, cutting to the one establishing shot. Redoing the environmental backgrounds for C3PO and R2D2’s trek to the palace gate, along with the barge sequence, would be far more difficult I’d assume. If it were achievable, and with a rewritten crawl, the only other reference to Tatooine that would have to be cut would be “I used to live here, you know…”. The prior line, “There’s nothing to see”, could be kept – and straight after that, you could cut away to a desolate shot of Nal Hutta (or whatever the new planet is), so that the joke plays out.

And final digression…I’m also totally in favour of cutting Boba Fett, for the justifications given by many before me: he’s underutilised in ROTJ, his death is wildly lame, and it makes no sense for his character to remain at Jabba’s after delivering Han. Let Boba remain a unique element of ESB; his final appearance ought to be flying off into the sunset – the conqueror! Now, if Boba were to be removed, I would actually suggest that a reedit of ESB’s conclusion would be merited. Specifically, the dialogue at the end of ESB should be edited along the lines of the 1980 70mm theatrical cut – where Lando promises Leia just that he’ll find Han, and makes no mention of “that bounty hunter” (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmbl8tLOfFE). This way, at the end of ESB, not even the slightest expectation would be raised of our heroes facing off with Boba again.

OKAY! Back to my revised opening for ROTJ.

After the crawl, we pan down – and fall upon the final space battle, with the rebels attacking the Death Star II. Specifically, a sequence should be cut together which disproportionately showcases the rebels’ losses – pilots dying, scenes of their ships crashing and of the Death Star II firing on the rebel cruisers, etc. We then cut to the rear shot of the Falcon being engulfed by flames. Finally, we cut to the scene where Leia is injured on Endor – tight on her, so we can’t make out the backdrop or discern the situation fully; a flash fills the frame, and we see Leia hurt. Played over this opening, we hear the Emperor’s words – reverbed, and partially edited: “Your fleet is lost, and your friends…will not survive”. The editing should be frenetic – very much akin to Rey’s vision in TFA, upon touching the lightsaber. Although initially, the sequence should play out conventionally – after the pan down from the crawl – so that the audience believes the opening to be occurring in real time.

After Leia’s “death”, we then cut to…Luke, from the deleted lightsaber construction scene. The opening space battle was a Force premonition, received by Luke. So after the final scene in the opening “montage” – for want of a better word; because it should play as one long, terrible vision – we then cut to (or utilise the premonition effect from ROTS, when Anakin dreams of Padme dying, to dissolve to) Luke’s face, tight; with Vader’s “Luke…Luke…” overlaid. We don’t, however, see Luke ignite his lightsaber – which happens shortly after the close-up on Luke’s face, here. Rather, we hold on Luke – with him presumably mulling over the vision – and then cut straight to Luke reaching out to R2D2, with C3PO in the background. We then cut to C3PO looking out over the ridge, before R2D2 joins him. All of C3PO’s dialogue should be cut, here. After the establishing shot of Luke’s X-Wing and the Falcon in the clearing, we then wipe to C3PO and R2D2 trekking to Jabba’s Palace – and the opening continues from there.

The advantages of this recut are thusly:

1.) The film starts with a much needed bang. We get a taste of the impressive space battle finale – and the surprise twist of this sequence actually being a Force premonition.
2.) The stakes are raised from the get-go. Is this the future? Will the Falcon really be destroyed? Does Leia die? The audience is primed for tragedy – which makes the film’s true denouement a relief. One common complaint is that the film’s ending is too convenient; a bittersweet conclusion is often said to have been preferred, in which a hero or two dies. But by teasing the deaths of our heroes at the start, the ending then becomes subversive – “difficult to see; always in motion is the future”.
3.) A definite gravity is given to certain moments in the film. Han’s inkling that he won’t see the Falcon again; the Emperor’s remarks aboard the Death Star II that he has already “foreseen” the Empire’s victory – is what the audience saw at the start of the film precisely what the Emperor has anticipated, and what Han suspects?

There’s also no real casualty to the reedited opening, either – the scene where Vader visits the Death Star II could easily be moved to some other point in the film, as a break from the happenings in Jabba’s Palace (which can feel very drawn out). The most logical insertion point, to my mind, would be after the reveal of Han in carbonite. Instead of wiping to the droids being assigned their positions of servitude, we would wipe to Vader’s shuttle approach – and at the conclusion of that scene, we then wipe to C3PO (“What could possibly have come over Master Luke? Was it something I did?”). As well as my suspicion that this arrangement of scenes would flow nicely, there’s also a narrative connection which now underlies the scene transition – Han suffered his carbon freeze at the hands of Vader; and so by cutting straight to Vader after the reveal of Jabba’s “favourite decoration”, the looming threat of the Empire is reinforced.

STRUCTURAL IDEAS #2 - LUKE RETURNS TO BEN’S HUT

Another bothersome scene in ROTJ is when Luke confabs with Obi-Wan’s ghost. It’s a visually bland, shot-reverse-shot affair – with Obi-Wan squatting down on a log no less! Very un-ghost like! So one idea to improve this segment – which doubleohfive records on his blog – is to have Luke and Obi-Wan confer in Obi-Wan’s hut, back on Tatooine.

This would immediately lend the exchange gravitas, as it becomes a direct parallel of the conversation between Luke and Obi-Wan in ANH; when Obi-Wan first told Luke about his father. Visually quoting this scene in ROTJ, by having Luke and Obi-Wan’s discussion occur in Obi-Wan’s hut, is particularly fitting. For the conversation once again turns to Luke’s father – the truth about Luke’s father; that initial question, “How did my father die?”, is finally answered in full. “The circle is now complete”.

And with Luke sitting to screen right, and Obi-Wan to screen left, their positions are reversed from ANH. This would communicate that Luke is the wiser, here – and Obi-Wan the novice. Because there truly is light in Vader – even if Obi-Wan can’t see it. Far from banal exposition, then, by switching Dagobah for Obi-Wan’s hut the exchange takes on a whole new subtext. Also, the troubling notion that Obi-Wan’s ghost can interact with material objects (why couldn’t he spectrally manifest to assist Luke in fighting Vader, then?) can be explained away with Obi-Wan having an intimate connection to this dwelling – and so he has limited powers of interaction here; i.e. he can sit down.

I’ve given some thought about where and how this scene should occur in the runtime. After Luke and company escape Nal Hutta (or whatever Tatooine’s replacement becomes, for the opening), Luke informs the Falcon that he’ll meet them back at the fleet; Han tells Luke that he “owes [him] one”. We then cut to an exterior shot of R2 in the X-Wing, bleeping; and we see the translation appear on Luke’s cockpit screen. After that, we should cut to Luke putting on his glove – and responding that “I have a promise to keep; to an old friend”. We see the X-Wing soar leftwards and then, rather than cutting to the Emperor’s arrival, we wipe to the establishing shot of Luke’s X-Wing outside Yoda’s hovel.

Luke and Yoda’s interaction then plays as originally. But when Yoda dies, after his body vanishes, we now cut to the exterior shot of Yoda’s hovel (with the light fading) and hold on this scene until the music concludes. We now wipe to the Emperor’s arrival. After that scene, we wipe to an establishing shot of Luke’s X-Wing outside of Obi-Wan’s hut on Tatooine. But crucially – there is a sandstorm raging! Perhaps assets could be seized from the ROTJ deleted scene for such a phenomenon? Having a sandstorm occurring:

1.) Gives further reason for Luke taking R2 into Obi-Wan’s hut, as opposed to leaving him in the X-Wing. Recall that Luke’s dialogue with R2 is what Obi-Wan’s ghost first seizes on, and so R2 has to be present in the scene.
2.) Symbolises the turmoil raging in Luke, at this point.
3.) Lends environmental variety. If we are to return to Tatooine again in this film – and despite my misgivings about this, we really ought to return to Tatooine if it’s for the sake of this hut scene (and providing we’ve changed the opening locale to Nal Hutta or its variant) – then at least have Tatooine be somehow different. And a sandstorm would be dramatically different!

Technologically achieving this Hut scene would doubtless be difficult. So the easiest way of going about it, to my mind, would be to edit the sequence as follows. After the establishing shot, we cut to Luke kneeling in front of R2 – “I can’t do it, R2. I can’t go on alone”. We hear Obi-Wan’s voice, “Yoda will always be with you”, as Luke stands and looks towards camera – “Obi-Wan!”. We then remove the shot of Obi-Wan walking towards camera – and cut instead to the shot of Obi-Wan standing still and gazing towards Luke (at the 46 minute mark). Obi-Wan’s ghost should, in fact, be made to fade in here – as ghosts are wont to do!

We hold on this image of Obi-Wan for longer than before – so that we can have Luke’s “Why didn’t you tell me?” play over it, along with “You told me Vader betrayed and murdered my father”. The initial question was originally asked by Luke as he walked through the Dagobah foliage – which obviously cannot happen here. This footage couldn’t be transplanted into Obi-Wan’s hut, and so its audio must instead play over the image of Obi-Wan’s ghost. Then, the scene could unfold as before; there aren’t any more long walks or bending to miss tree branches – the movements of Luke and Obi-Wan, edited to their bare minimum (Luke kneeling before R2 and then rising; Obi-Wan fading in to a standstill; then both moving back slightly to sit down), could all be feasibly mapped to the interior of Obi-Wan’s hut.

After Luke and Obi-Wan’s conversation in the hut, we wipe to the Rebel fleet as before. And it strikes me that, by having Luke hop from Dagobah to Tatooine, he’s been gone for longer; Luke returning to Tatooine and telling R2 that he “can’t go on alone” also implies, strongly, that he was considering not re-joining the Alliance – and perhaps, Luke was instead thinking of “staying here and not getting involved”. This makes the reunion which Luke enjoys with Leia and Han at the Rebel briefing all the more poignant. Luke’s finally back – the Jedi has returned!


So there you have it. I think that all of the above, combined with an enhanced bunker raid sequence (which utilises the deleted scenes) and an updated space battle finale, would go a long way towards structurally improving the film – and giving ROTJ some much needed heft.

…how feel you?

Author
Time
 (Edited)

topdawg193 said:

Finally, we cut to the scene where Leia is injured on Endor – tight on her, so we can’t make out the backdrop or discern the situation fully; a flash fills the frame, and we see Leia hurt.

After Leia’s “death”, we then cut to…Luke, from the deleted lightsaber construction scene.

^ On reflection, it might be inappropriate to include any scene of Leia here - and perhaps best to keep the opening space bound, like the other episodes, for uniformity’s sake. Besides, it may be more powerful to have the sequence conclude with the Falcon apparently burning up. So of course, if this was to be the case, we would segue to Luke’s close-up after the shot of the Falcon - which would become the final image in the opening vision.

Author
Time

My problem with renaming the desert planet in Return of the Jedi is we already know from watching The Empire Strikes Back that Luke and Lando are planning to meet on Tatooine. Indeed if you are going to use Ben’s haunted house it too is on Tatooine. I know it’s a bugbear for some forum members but I don’t have a problem with Tatooine actually being the centre of the Star Wars universe.
In the first film Luke is a teenager. In the 20’s and 30’s citizens of nations that had developed industrial cities with such wonders as horseless carriages and giant sky scraping towers fantasised about Tarzan, The Sheik, The Arabian Knights, Merry old England etc. If you have been to Medieval England you would know it was a rough horrid nasty place full of death and the people who lived there all had fantasies of going to the Holy Land which was another horrid hell hole.
Luke thinks Tatooine is boring because he hasn’t seen it from our eyes where giant lizards and duel sunsets are exotic and interesting. I would rename Geonosis Tatooine too (still haven’t seen the TFA but Jakku seems to make more sense as Tatooine than another random world). It would take a colour shift but it would make sense.
In the first film we have a planet where the Jawas make money out of salvage, The locals hate droids, some them keeping non-robotic slaves in preference and natives are terrified of Jedi. If you were to have Tatooine occupied by the droid armies of the Republic and liberated in episode 2 it makes sense as to why twenty years later the Jawas still can make a living out of clearing the sands. I mentioned this on the Prequel Redux thread many many moons ago and then along came the trailer for TFA and it made me smile to think someone had come up with a similar idea.
Flitting from one identical planet to another is not universe building. Most of Frank Herbert’s books are set on the same planet and are much more detailed and epic than the current Star Wars universe.

Author
Time

Bingowings said:

My problem with renaming the desert planet in Return of the Jedi is we already know from watching The Empire Strikes Back that Luke and Lando are planning to meet on Tatooine.

Quite right. We know that the rendezvous point is Tatooine; and so I always took the end of ESB to imply that Lando and Chewie would conduct reconnaissance, determine where Han is being held, and then report back to Luke on Tatooine; or else, report back to Luke and then meet on Tatooine to formulate or action their plan. But this doesn’t come to the same thing as Han, himself, actually being on that planet. Upon watching ESB, there’s really no expectation raised of this; and quite the opposite, I’d argue. Because what are the odds that the rendezvous point - which seems somewhat arbitrarily chosen (“I’ll meet you at the rendezvous point on…[pauses to consider] Tatooine”) - would also just happen to be where Han is located. “It’s always the last place you look, right Chewie?”.

And if the rendezvous point was to be Tatooine because they already knew that Han was there, then why did it take three years or so to precisely locate him? Okay, sure - so Tatooine is a planet; and that’s a large surface to cover. But they have access to spaceships and presumably scanning equipment; and they know that Jabba’s the one to whom Han is being delivered. Given how “illustrious” Jabba the Hutt is - and how ostentatious; the dude’s rockin’ his own palace! - it really wouldn’t take too long to find out where Jabba’s holing up on that desert world.

The only way that the ending of ESB makes any sense, in fact - with Lando and Chewie setting off on their search, and ROTJ then taking place years later - is if Han is not on Tatooine; if Han is actually on some unknown planet, which Lando and Chewie must find.

Bingowings said:

Indeed if you are going to use Ben’s haunted house it too is on Tatooine.

Oh, I definitely wouldn’t mind returning to Tatooine if it’s narratively or symbolically earned - as it would be in the case of having the conversation between Obi-Wan and Luke play out back in Obi-Wan’s hut. Tatooine as the centre of the Star Wars galaxy is all well and fine, providing that by centre of the Star Wars galaxy you mean that the planet hosts pivotal moments or turning points in the overarching story. If Tatooine is the planet from which each trilogy’s protagonist emerges, then so be it - there’s a somewhat fairy tale quality to that notion. But when Tatooine is also the planet of choice for tertiary events which aren’t integral to the development of the main character or the central thrust of the narrative, then universe shrinkage threatens.

Author
Time

For me real universe shrinkage isn’t constantly visiting and finding out more about the same place. It’s hopping around places with different names that look the same and not finding out much about them or their cultures or customs. If you were to merge all that sand into one pile you would have one interesting and well explored place. Instead of three almost identikit places where only one is really explored.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Bingowings said:

For me real universe shrinkage isn’t constantly visiting and finding out more about the same place. It’s hopping around places with different names that look the same and not finding out much about them or their cultures or customs. If you were to merge all that sand into one pile you would have one interesting and well explored place. Instead of three almost identikit places where only one is really explored.

To be clear - I definitely wasn’t advocating a Jakku type situation, where the planet’s aesthetic remains the same and only the name is changed. I’m really very ignorant about the technicality of such, but what I was proposing was a radical redesign of Tatooine in ROTJ - such that the exterior shots are unrecognisable, and the planet then becomes wholly new. That portion of the film is largely contained in Jabba’s Palace - save for the droids’ trek to the gate, one establishing shot of the palace, and the barge sequence. So what I would hope for, is a thorough re-imagining of those exteriors. Of course, the barge sequence occurs on “the Dune Sea” - so it will get sandy at some point. But the desert climate in this portion would just add to the ecological variety of whatever the new planet is to be. And I imagine a colour shift for the barge segment, along with new backgrounds, to clearly differentiate this area from Tatooine.

I take your point about depth of exploration, as opposed to breadth. Less can be more - and limiting the planetary lineup might be beneficial if it means that we can better develop the one planet. But I suppose I just don’t buy Jabba’s Palace being on Tatooine; it doesn’t make sense to me in light of ESB’s conclusion. And far from deepening our understanding of Tatooine, I think it actively contradicts the planet as established in ANH. If Jabba is such a powerful figure, who desperately wants Han Solo (and is able to offer an inordinate bounty to guarantee his acquisition), then surely Han wouldn’t dream of trying to drive up business in Jabba’s backyard. Jabba should thoroughly own the muscle on whatever planet he bases himself - so Han should’ve been dead meat as soon as he touched down on the surface in ANH; or at least, as soon as he wandered into Mos Eisley. But nope; only Greedo puts in an effort. And this is because, in ANH, I never imagined Tatooine as the fixed abode of an intergalactic crime lord - rather, I imagined the planet as more of a terminal; thoroughly removed from any power player.

Surely best, then, to situate Jabba’s Palace on a new planet - which would derive its character from the Rancor, the Sarlaac, and all the rest. We don’t spend an incredible amount of time on Bespin or Dagobah - and we only visit the former once, in the whole saga. Yet those locales are undoubtedly rich; so there’s no reason to think that transforming Tatooine into a new planet for ROTJ would necessarily result in a more frivolous setting than either Bespin or Dagobah. It falls to the design elements; and so we’re off on the right track from the get-go, in virtue of the ingenuity on display in this portion of ROTJ. Effort would have to be spent to ensure that the new exteriors are equally as inventive.

And it shouldn’t be overlooked that film is a chiefly visual medium. Each Star Wars film aspires to an epic sweep - from the sandy dunes of Tatooine to the metallic corridors of the Death Star and the lush greenery of Yavin IV; from the snow drifts of Hoth to the swamps of Dagobah and the cloud fields of Bespin. ROTJ appears undeniably bland in comparison. Augmenting Tatooine in ROTJ goes beyond universe expanding, then - it also broadens the film’s palette.

Author
Time

Hey everyone I’m way too new to the discussion and I posted this in the ESB:R thread. Anyone seen this in regard to the storyline through the PT:

Hey thank you so much for everything! It’s been a blast catching up with all the news, and am so excited for everything. I was wondering if you all have seen “The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?” I enjoyed it so much and don’t wanna assume everyone has. It could be some solid inspiration for your prequel ideas…
Hope y’all enjoy!

“The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BNdF_NCVQ

Author
Time
 (Edited)

DuracellEnergizer said:

It’s a Dark Jedi, actually, not a Sith Lord. And yes, I realize I’m being pedantic. ;-P

No you’re not. Sith have rules, a creed, a recorded history, etc. The term “Dark Jedi”, while possibly synonymous with any dark force user, doesn’t necessarily refer to someone who belongs to the Order of the Sith.

It’s not pedantic. It’s geeky. But geeky is cool now.

TV’s Frink said:

chyron just put a big Ric pic in your sig and be done with it.

Author
Time

Some quick mock ups on x-wing detail and some final thoughts.

I put a display section on the x-wing cockpit to see what it would look like… So yeah I actually like this but I think it would be pretty difficult to do. But it looks like that particular section of the cockpit has exposed rivets and a sort of horizontal rack or screw mount where the display module is meant to fit.

“All the scopes are dead”. My thoughts on this are that there are not any scopes because the display panel is actually missing! But if the display module was included in the cockpit the main display should perhaps be showing some kind of static interference.

So In conclusion on this it’s something that is not easy as it is a travelling overlay and it would also require blurring when the rest of the cockpit would Blur also so many reasons against doing this but I wanted to talk about this and how I feel about it plainly.

This mock up put’s the top detail in which R2-D2 resides so that it matches the model shots of the x-wing as this version of the x-wing just does not have that top detail present. This is actually a fairly simple thing but it does cut in to the steam rising from the near side engine so a downside yet again for doing something like this is that it means an extra steam effect would be required to be added to cover the overlay that has been added.

So you can clearly see the motivation that I desire the x-wing to be more familiar to our first exposure to seeing it but even I will admit it is not without some fairly sizeable hurdles which put it perhaps at not worth the effort but I wanted to show these 2 mock ups just because I think it aligns the x-wing in ESB more with the x-wing in ANH & ROTJ.

Now there is one last thing I care to get off my chest about this particular sequence and It’s not anything related to special effects. But it is more of a very simple thought about Luke and R2-D2 in their predicament and something I have pondered.

Should Luke ask R2-D2 if he is ok?

That might sound a bit silly but it’s something that is a small thing but I think would have added quite a lot.

a simple “how you doing back there?”

or a “You ok?”

Basically they both stop talking to one another and it’s a shame their was no interaction between Luke and R2 after they crash. There is nothing in the script so there never was any interaction planned for that bit as far as I am aware.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Since Jaba is a big slug anyway… what about changing Tatooine into a marshland? Since Dagobah is already a swamp, you don’t want to go THAT far, but it would probably be easier to turn the desert-scape into a marsh than anything else.

Author
Time

NAlbert0 said:

Hey everyone I’m way too new to the discussion and I posted this in the ESB:R thread. Anyone seen this in regard to the storyline through the PT:

Hey thank you so much for everything! It’s been a blast catching up with all the news, and am so excited for everything. I was wondering if you all have seen “The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?” I enjoyed it so much and don’t wanna assume everyone has. It could be some solid inspiration for your prequel ideas…
Hope y’all enjoy!

“The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BNdF_NCVQ

Yes, though I disagree with the fact that the prequels are brillant in any way, it is a good idea to be implemented. The moral issues that derive from the Jedi’s overly rigidal code.

Aalenfae and I are of the idea that it would be more believable and consistent with the Vader we know and love in the OT if Anakin fell because he realised Windu was breaking the code instead of the current version where he falls because he is the one breaking it.

To achieve this, it is key that Anakin lets Shmi die by staying in Naboo in EPII because he only follows orders. Then he has premonitions about Padme’s death as well, and he is conflicted because again because his moral forces him to keep following the Jedi way of “letting things pass”. Palpatine tempts him, but he can’t do it. He does what is right, which is turning him over to the council. He cries in the council chamber because he’s letting his loved one die for “the greater good”. He then senses Windu is about to kill Palpatine. “how could it be? I was willing to let her die for this and you proved no better than the Sith”.

I was the perfect soldier. I’m the chosen one. I’m perfect. The rest are just lesser beings.

Vader. Crazy Full Metal Jacket style.

The continuation of this story with Luke’s position in the OT (and hopefully how he designs the new Jedi order in the ST) also would be a nice paralel of the generational conflict between the view of life and duty the Totalitarian WWII era youths had and how their sons in the 60’s post war generation saw it.

Author
Time

ray_afraid said:

I’m with topdawg193 all the way. I’ve always thought it would be interesting if Jabbas palace was on a tropical jungle kinda planet.

WheresBlackhawk said:

Since Jaba is a big slug anyway… what about changing Tatooine into a marshland? Since Dagobah is already a swamp, you don’t want to go THAT far, but it would probably be easier to turn the desert-scape into a marsh than anything else.

I started a thread over at FanEdit Forums, to discuss this new structure for ROTJ in more detail; a member of that forum, DigModiFicaTion, made a great point about Jabba’s hideout on Tatooine - along the same lines as you, Blackhawk:

I think Jabba’s base of operations should be on a planet that is more uniform with his physical make up. It doesn’t make sense that a slimy slug creature that, I assume, needs to stay wet and mucousy resides on a planet that is so inhospitably dry and devoid of moisture.

Before now, I hadn’t thought about how Jabba’s physiology doesn’t even fit with his surroundings on Tatooine! Slugs need moisture, so it absolutely makes sense that Jabba’s preferred habitat would be somewhere dank and soggy - hardly a desert world!

I’m imagining a marsh planet, too. And in fact, I stumbled on some Nal Hutta concept art which, as it so happens, really captures what I’d envision for Jabba’s bog. I wonder if the artists thought along similar lines, matching Jabba’s physical constitution to the environment which would best support that? And ray_afraid - the art definitely conveys a colourful, tropical aesthetic; so although fundamentally a marshland, the colours would lend a nice variety to the film.

You can check it out in my post here:
http://www.fanedit.org/forums/showthread.php?15380-Return-of-the-Jedi-New-Structure-Space-Battle-Opening/page2.

After fielding suggestions on that forum, I was able to put forward a new crawl draft:

The Alliance is doomed. Retreating to the outer rim, the Rebels prepare for a final strike against the tyrannical Empire.

Sensing victory, Lord Vader has overseen the construction of a new Death Star – this ultimate weapon, once completed, will secure the Emperor’s spiteful reign.

With hope fading, Luke Skywalker journeys to Nal Varr in an attempt to rescue Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt…

I swapped out “Nal Hutta” for “Nal Varr”, which I thought sounded suitably Star Warsy! Although I like the Nal Hutta concept art, and would imagine Jabba’s planet in ROTJ to look like that, I wouldn’t want Jabba’s locale to actually be the Hutt home world. Because again - if our heroes know, by the end of ESB, that Han is to be delivered to Jabba the Hutt, then the first place they’d check out would presumably be Jabba’s home planet of Nal Hutta. And if that’s where Han was indeed taken, then the passage of time between ESB and ROTJ wouldn’t make sense. Or at least, it would make our heroes look dense, if it took them so long to check out Jabba’s place of origin - the most logical place to look, in the first instance.

Author
Time

What about Nar Shaddaa? It’s supposedly the moon of Nal Hutta. I don’t have issue with Nal Varr (I presume you’re mimicking “Rhen Varr”), but just thought it wouldn’t hurt to use a planet from Legends that has history. I agree not to use Nal Hutta. For one, always found the name kinda stupid, and second, due to the reasons you already brought up, topdawg.

The Rise of Failures

Author
Time

Mithrandir said:

NAlbert0 said:

Hey everyone I’m way too new to the discussion and I posted this in the ESB:R thread. Anyone seen this in regard to the storyline through the PT:

Hey thank you so much for everything! It’s been a blast catching up with all the news, and am so excited for everything. I was wondering if you all have seen “The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?” I enjoyed it so much and don’t wanna assume everyone has. It could be some solid inspiration for your prequel ideas…
Hope y’all enjoy!

“The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BNdF_NCVQ

Yes, though I disagree with the fact that the prequels are brillant in any way, it is a good idea to be implemented. The moral issues that derive from the Jedi’s overly rigidal code.

Aalenfae and I are of the idea that it would be more believable and consistent with the Vader we know and love in the OT if Anakin fell because he realised Windu was breaking the code instead of the current version where he falls because he is the one breaking it.

To achieve this, it is key that Anakin lets Shmi die by staying in Naboo in EPII because he only follows orders. Then he has premonitions about Padme’s death as well, and he is conflicted because again because his moral forces him to keep following the Jedi way of “letting things pass”. Palpatine tempts him, but he can’t do it. He does what is right, which is turning him over to the council. He cries in the council chamber because he’s letting his loved one die for “the greater good”. He then senses Windu is about to kill Palpatine. “how could it be? I was willing to let her die for this and you proved no better than the Sith”.

I was the perfect soldier. I’m the chosen one. I’m perfect. The rest are just lesser beings.

Vader. Crazy Full Metal Jacket style.

The continuation of this story with Luke’s position in the OT (and hopefully how he designs the new Jedi order in the ST) also would be a nice paralel of the generational conflict between the view of life and duty the Totalitarian WWII era youths had and how their sons in the 60’s post war generation saw it.

Those are some cools thoughts! In all honesty the whole dynamic of Windu and Anakin’s struggle could be angled in such a way that would be brilliant! I like your thoughts on the whole removal of the sand people slaughter. I actually don’t mind the scene, because it show how ‘everyone breaks the code and can use their anger’, but the way that you suggest actually causes more tension and makes it a lot clearer and more coherent when Anakin says “the Jedi look like the Sith”.

Do you have any ideas how those scenes could be edited in a way that would reflect those ideas?

Author
Time

Jabba’s palace looks a bit like a plant pot so maybe someone could take photos of a garden and oversize everything so the slug is to scale, like James and the Giant Peach.

Author
Time

NAlbert0 said:

Mithrandir said:

NAlbert0 said:

Hey everyone I’m way too new to the discussion and I posted this in the ESB:R thread. Anyone seen this in regard to the storyline through the PT:

Hey thank you so much for everything! It’s been a blast catching up with all the news, and am so excited for everything. I was wondering if you all have seen “The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?” I enjoyed it so much and don’t wanna assume everyone has. It could be some solid inspiration for your prequel ideas…
Hope y’all enjoy!

“The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BNdF_NCVQ

Yes, though I disagree with the fact that the prequels are brillant in any way, it is a good idea to be implemented. The moral issues that derive from the Jedi’s overly rigidal code.

Aalenfae and I are of the idea that it would be more believable and consistent with the Vader we know and love in the OT if Anakin fell because he realised Windu was breaking the code instead of the current version where he falls because he is the one breaking it.

To achieve this, it is key that Anakin lets Shmi die by staying in Naboo in EPII because he only follows orders. Then he has premonitions about Padme’s death as well, and he is conflicted because again because his moral forces him to keep following the Jedi way of “letting things pass”. Palpatine tempts him, but he can’t do it. He does what is right, which is turning him over to the council. He cries in the council chamber because he’s letting his loved one die for “the greater good”. He then senses Windu is about to kill Palpatine. “how could it be? I was willing to let her die for this and you proved no better than the Sith”.

I was the perfect soldier. I’m the chosen one. I’m perfect. The rest are just lesser beings.

Vader. Crazy Full Metal Jacket style.

The continuation of this story with Luke’s position in the OT (and hopefully how he designs the new Jedi order in the ST) also would be a nice paralel of the generational conflict between the view of life and duty the Totalitarian WWII era youths had and how their sons in the 60’s post war generation saw it.

Those are some cools thoughts! In all honesty the whole dynamic of Windu and Anakin’s struggle could be angled in such a way that would be brilliant! I like your thoughts on the whole removal of the sand people slaughter. I actually don’t mind the scene, because it show how ‘everyone breaks the code and can use their anger’, but the way that you suggest actually causes more tension and makes it a lot clearer and more coherent when Anakin says “the Jedi look like the Sith”.

Do you have any ideas how those scenes could be edited in a way that would reflect those ideas?

I have made some WIP edits of the scenes in AOTC. Check them out here https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Kx80VdTyyocGtCSFh5MFVZcmM . The cuts I’ve talked about would be the videos named “she’s in pain” and “Tattoine rough cut” (which would be at the very end of the movie).

Regarding ROTS, I think that with some re arrangement it could work. There are lines that could have a new or different meaning and could collaborate with the idea, such as “something is happening, I’m not the jedi I should be” (because he realises he shouldn’t feel tempted).

Author
Time

Mithrandir said:

NAlbert0 said:

Mithrandir said:

NAlbert0 said:

Hey everyone I’m way too new to the discussion and I posted this in the ESB:R thread. Anyone seen this in regard to the storyline through the PT:

Hey thank you so much for everything! It’s been a blast catching up with all the news, and am so excited for everything. I was wondering if you all have seen “The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?” I enjoyed it so much and don’t wanna assume everyone has. It could be some solid inspiration for your prequel ideas…
Hope y’all enjoy!

“The Star Wars Prequels are Secretly Brilliant?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2BNdF_NCVQ

Yes, though I disagree with the fact that the prequels are brillant in any way, it is a good idea to be implemented. The moral issues that derive from the Jedi’s overly rigidal code.

Aalenfae and I are of the idea that it would be more believable and consistent with the Vader we know and love in the OT if Anakin fell because he realised Windu was breaking the code instead of the current version where he falls because he is the one breaking it.

To achieve this, it is key that Anakin lets Shmi die by staying in Naboo in EPII because he only follows orders. Then he has premonitions about Padme’s death as well, and he is conflicted because again because his moral forces him to keep following the Jedi way of “letting things pass”. Palpatine tempts him, but he can’t do it. He does what is right, which is turning him over to the council. He cries in the council chamber because he’s letting his loved one die for “the greater good”. He then senses Windu is about to kill Palpatine. “how could it be? I was willing to let her die for this and you proved no better than the Sith”.

I was the perfect soldier. I’m the chosen one. I’m perfect. The rest are just lesser beings.

Vader. Crazy Full Metal Jacket style.

The continuation of this story with Luke’s position in the OT (and hopefully how he designs the new Jedi order in the ST) also would be a nice paralel of the generational conflict between the view of life and duty the Totalitarian WWII era youths had and how their sons in the 60’s post war generation saw it.

Those are some cools thoughts! In all honesty the whole dynamic of Windu and Anakin’s struggle could be angled in such a way that would be brilliant! I like your thoughts on the whole removal of the sand people slaughter. I actually don’t mind the scene, because it show how ‘everyone breaks the code and can use their anger’, but the way that you suggest actually causes more tension and makes it a lot clearer and more coherent when Anakin says “the Jedi look like the Sith”.

Do you have any ideas how those scenes could be edited in a way that would reflect those ideas?

I have made some WIP edits of the scenes in AOTC. Check them out here https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Kx80VdTyyocGtCSFh5MFVZcmM . The cuts I’ve talked about would be the videos named “she’s in pain” and “Tattoine rough cut” (which would be at the very end of the movie).

Regarding ROTS, I think that with some re arrangement it could work. There are lines that could have a new or different meaning and could collaborate with the idea, such as “something is happening, I’m not the jedi I should be” (because he realises he shouldn’t feel tempted).

Hey! I saw the two clips that you had pointed out. I enjoy the premise quite a lot. The “shes in pain” does seem a bit jarring at times, but of course it is a WIP. I’m wondering how Padme could seem less dismissive of the whole thing since she seemed so caring about his nightmare.

With the “ending” I enjoyed the new dynamic! It did seem like he found her rather quickly, so once again I’m wondering how that timing could be adjusted/filled. it seems like it would take some serious rearranging and creativity to fill that spot and make it flow…

Author
Time

Mithrandir said:

I have made some WIP edits of the scenes in AOTC. Check them out here https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5Kx80VdTyyocGtCSFh5MFVZcmM . The cuts I’ve talked about would be the videos named “she’s in pain” and “Tattoine rough cut” (which would be at the very end of the movie).

Regarding ROTS, I think that with some re arrangement it could work. There are lines that could have a new or different meaning and could collaborate with the idea, such as “something is happening, I’m not the jedi I should be” (because he realises he shouldn’t feel tempted).

You, sir, got a legitimate chuckle out of me with your ‘friend helping a friend’ scene! Nicely done!

I’m just here because I’m driving tonight.

Author
Time
  • Replace Palpatine’s advisors with his two advisors from AOTC and ROTS.

  • Use the 1997 ending with Luke’s wink from 1983.

Author
Time
 (Edited)

Hello OT Community!

I’ve been lurking around for quite some time here and I wanted to drop by and give my ideas as to what I would like to see in Return of the Jedi: Revisited.

  1. Include the green lightsaber deleted scene. This could very well be implemented between the transitions from the Star Destroyer to Tatooine. This scene could be avoided with Vader’s exposition during Luke’s capture about him making a new lightsaber… So no harm there. Although it would be nice to see this scene, makes Luke looks badass 😛

  2. Use the SE song that it’s used during the celebration after the Emperor’s Death.
    The original Yub-Nub just feels… odd, feels out of place. The new song sounds much more fulfilling and like a proper closure to the amazing ride that is the entire Star Wars franchise.

  3. Add the new scenes featuring Oola in the 1997 re-release of the film… But not Jedi Rocks of course. xD
    Including the Boba Fett’s new scenes too.

  4. No-eyebrows Vader.

  5. Leave Hayden Christensen as Anakin/Vader’s ghost.

(Nah I’m just kidding with the last one, don’t murder me yet)

And that’s it.
Those are my ideas for RotJ: Revisited.

Nothing fancy, just retouching and moving some scenes around.
Mostly just what I’d like to see still in the movie rather than removed for the sake of having as much from the original as possible.

I know Adywan will work his magic to make some scenes stand out more and keep some of the new added scenes in pair with the original movie.

I also wanted to give my idea about removing Luke and Leia’s kiss in ESB.
Having them kiss in the movie and then have Yoda some mins afterwards imply that they’re brothers is just not right. But oh well, that ship has sailed. 😛