STAR WARS: EP VI -RETURN OF THE JEDI "REVISITED EDITION"ADYWAN - ** PRODUCTION HAS NOW RESTARTED ** — Page 25

Regardless of where the Endor scenes are placed, couldn’t something be added to the crawl stating that Luke has been afraid to ask Yoda about the truth?

Luke has returned to the planet Dagobah to complete his training under the tutelage of the aging Master Yoda. In the ensuing months, he has yet to face the tormenting question of his parentage.

Not sure if this is any good, but it’s an idea. People often avoid uncomfortable topics. Once he knows Yoda is dying and that he’s only got one last shot to ask, he then asks.

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

ray_afraid said:

Jani-wan said:

YodaFan67 said:

I only have one suggestion for this, but I think it improves the film greatly:
Start the film with Luke on Dagobah
It just makes so much more sense

Do you have friends?
How long would you let them hangin on a wall? Weeks? Month? If they survive that long at all.

Luke’s waiting to hear from Lando before he does anything. This is set up at the end of ESB.
In the meantime, nothing’s stopping him from going back to Yoda and it makes more sense that he would.
You can click the link in my sig for my ideal opining to ROTJ.

Oh, come on.
How long does it take to find Jabba?
How long does it take to sell him some spice at an unreasonably low price, and offer him more, where this came from?
How long does it take to see that Han is hanging on the wall?
How long does it take to make a “phone call”?
Actually I don’t think Luke has even time to recover properly.

The movie disagrees with you. But that’s ok.

No it does not.
But that’s ok.

nhoj3 said:

Jani-wan said:

Then it must be changed.
It was 2 weeks.
Easy.
BTW I do not accept canon, if it makes no sense. It’s like accepting the geocentric model, when we know it is wrong. Disney must do a better job.

Let me start by saying that clearly no single approach is going to satisfy everyone.

Is there anything that satisfies everyone?

nhoj3 said:

Having said that, I feel that you’re being overly confident in an argument that doesn’t stand up to its own measures. You talk of “sense” but how does it make any “sense” if only 2 weeks have passed in the story when the actors (particularly Mark Hamill) have clearly aged years? In this regard a longer passage of time makes more “sense”.

Maybe some people would believe that it makes more sense that:

• It might take some time to find a single object in a rather large galaxy.
• That perhaps Jabba may have more than a single stronghold to infiltrate
• That it takes time to build a credible backstory to infiltrate an organization as Lando has
• That this whole cycle may have to be repeated if Han isn’t found in that location

As a kid that actually had to wait 3 years between ESB and ROTJ I had no issues following the continuing adventures of Marvel Star Wars (minus Han Solo) while Luke and company searched the galaxy foe their frozen friend.

You’ve asked several times “how long would you leave your friend on a wall?” I don’t think it’s a relevant question. “Scoundrel” Lando is infiltrating in a way that Luke cannot. Everyone is playing their role on the team.

Luke returning to Yoda to continue his training and admitting that he was wrong to run off half-cocked shows maturity and character growth. That makes “sense” from a storytelling perspective.

Oh, my.
It does not have to be 2 weeks.
It can be 3 weeks, 4 weeks. can be anything that is reasonable.
It can not be 6 month. That is not reasonable.

Can not sacrifice common sense for actors aging, that is barely recognizable, and the character’s aging could be easily chalked up to effects of resent events.

As a kid a had to wait 3 years too. Still, whatever you read in those Marvel comics, is just irrelevant, if not logical.

Jabba is probably on Tatooine. That is his headquarters, at least in the movies.
But for the sake of this argument let’s assume that he can be anywhere.
You do not go to every single place Jabba owns, and infiltrate and etc…
I lay it out for you, how would I find Luke the easy way if Im Lando.
I hire someone to negotiate my deal with Jabba, probably an old acquaintance, who can be trusted with this for the right amount of money, and merely provide escort as a ‘mercenary bodyguard’.
Contact Jabba’s nearest ‘representative’ and present an offer with one condition, that I only make deals with Jabba himself. Make the offer irrefusable, success is guaranteed. You can always count on greed.
Now I have Jabba’s location, and free pass, and don’t have to travel around the galaxy planet to planet and infiltrate and etc…
When deal is completed, ask Jabba for a job. With good credentials Im in.
Call Luke.
How long does this takes?
Couple of days, a week maybe, depending on travel distance, since we only know where Tatooine is but we don’t know where the fleet is.
Searching the galaxy for months is just stupid.

DZ-330 said:

Jani-wan said:

DZ-330 said:

Reworking the first paragraph of the original crawl can fix the reordering of the Tatooine and Dagobah scenes.

STAR
WARS

EPISODE VI
RETURN OF THE JEDI

Luke Skywalker has returned to
the planet of Dagobah to continue
his training as a Jedi Knight.
Meanwhile, his friends have located
Han Solo at the lair of the vile
gangster Jabba the Hutt. But he
left his friend hanging on the
wall for six month…

Meanwhile Darth Vader went to
Tatooine to set a trap for Luke
knowing that he will show up
to save his friend. Vader
waited five month but Luke
never showed up leaving his
friend hanging on the wall

Vader finally left to report
to the Emperor, who sent him
to speed up to construction
of the new armored space station
more powerful, then the first
Death Star … when Luke
finally showed up.

Fixed it 😉

Let’s set ROTJ a month or so after ESB with the reordering, the crawl could still work. Lando and Chewie found Han within a week or two and Lando applies and gets a job at Jabba’s to have an inside-man. Luke got word of Lando’s plan and went back to Dagobah to confront Yoda and Ben about Vader being his father on his way to Tatooine, he needs to know for sure. Leia gets restless waiting for Luke to get there and decides to go in with Chewie and get Han out herself. Luke senses this and leaves for Tatooine right away. The movie then continues as originally scripted.

Makes sense.
Still Luke needs time to recover, and if Lando has Han’s location before he heals completely, he can’t go to Dagobah to ask Yoda. And not to train.
But we don’t know how long it takes to heal, so this could work I guess.

So the next problem, why they seperate when they leave Tatooine.

I think moving the lengthy and slow Yoda death scene / Ben force ghost scene to the start of the movie would be a horrible idea. It sits perfectly where it is, as down time between the two big set pieces.

If you’re looking for a plausible in-universe reason why it took Luke some time to rescue Han, then why not just presume that finding a Khyber crystal to power his newly built light saber took him on a quest around the galaxy. Them crystals don’t grow on trees you know!

NeverarGreat said:

It is a time of open war. As the Rebellion gathers its strength for a decisive strike, Luke Skywalker has returned to the hidden world of Dagobah to complete his Jedi training.

Unable to face the question of his true father, he awaits word from his friends as they prepare to rescue Han Solo from the clutches of the vile gangster Jabba the Hutt.

Little do they know that the GALACTIC EMPIRE has secretly been constructing a new armored space station even more powerful than the first dreaded Death Star…

I had really hope that Ady would be blown away and use my revised crawl for the opening of ROTJ-Revisited. However, I’m big enough to admit when a better crawl comes along and so far this is my choice!

Great work! 😃

Jani-wan said:

Oh, my.
It does not have to be 2 weeks.
It can be 3 weeks, 4 weeks. can be anything that is reasonable.
It can not be 6 month. That is not reasonable.

Can not sacrifice common sense for actors aging, that is barely recognizable, and the character’s aging could be easily chalked up to effects of resent events.

Jabba is probably on Tatooine. That is his headquarters, at least in the movies.
But for the sake of this argument let’s assume that he can be anywhere.
You do not go to every single place Jabba owns, and infiltrate and etc…
I lay it out for you, how would I find Luke the easy way if Im Lando.
I hire someone to negotiate my deal with Jabba, probably an old acquaintance, who can be trusted with this for the right amount of money, and merely provide escort as a ‘mercenary bodyguard’.
Contact Jabba’s nearest ‘representative’ and present an offer with one condition, that I only make deals with Jabba himself. Make the offer irrefusable, success is guaranteed. You can always count on greed.
Now I have Jabba’s location, and free pass, and don’t have to travel around the galaxy planet to planet and infiltrate and etc…
When deal is completed, ask Jabba for a job. With good credentials Im in.
Call Luke.
How long does this takes?
Couple of days, a week maybe, depending on travel distance, since we only know where Tatooine is but we don’t know where the fleet is.
Searching the galaxy for months is just stupid.

You’re pretty absolute with your opinions. I’m willing to at least entertain the idea of more flexibility in life (and interesting storytelling). For arguments sake I’m willing to throw out all other “what ifs” and go with your plan above.

1. Finding an old acquaintance- maybe one day, maybe weeks, maybe months. Perhaps your acquaintance is on a smuggling run. Perhaps he’s laying low from the Empire. Perhaps he’s imprisoned by the Empire and needs to be liberated to buy the goodwill to set up the Jabba deal. Who’s to say?
2. Arrange a meeting with Jabba - maybe one day, maybe weeks. A good negotiator doesn’t want to seem desperate. Who’s to say?
3. Travel time - pretty flexible on the Star Wars galaxy. Who’s to say?
4. Initial deal and infiltration- Jabba would have to be the most gullible slug in the galaxy to hire on your schedule. We’ve already seen from Boushh that he’s smarter than that. Donnie Brasco went undercover for 6 years. John Sherwood went undercover for 3 years. Do you honestly think Lando would be hired as a palace guard, holding a lethal weapon only feet from Jabba in a few days? Months (at a minimum) is more likely, and only after Lando had proven himself by doing some pretty awful things. Again, who’s to say?

I keep saying “who’s to say” to drive home the point that opinions aren’t absolutes. Life doesn’t always take the straight path from A to B. I think that it’s more than “reasonable” that “months” have expired. Much more so than “weeks”.

adywan said:

I haven’t had time to go through every comment yet, but here are a few things that WON’T be happening in ROTJ:R -

Revised Crawl - the crawl will be staying the same.

While I completely agree with all of his other choices, this is the only thing on Ady’s list that disappoints me. Maybe he’ll reconsider the idea when he reads NeverarGreat’s crawl… lol

Oh well! He’s doing all of the work, so he gets to make the decisions.

Thank god Boba is gonna die. Also great to hear that Lando is gonna die.

adywan said:

And why does Luke only react strangely towards Leia, that she senses, when he reappears at the briefing and not at all before that?

Very good point. I completely missed that.

TV’s Frink said:

Also great to hear that Lando is gonna die.

??
What did I miss?

ray_afraid said:

There are several things in the movie that let’s the audience know that some time has passed.

1. Luke’s demeanor is very different, showing a shift in his character and maturity since we last saw him.
2. He’ built a new lightsaber. That means hes tracked down the how-to guide and all the parts n pieces. Maybe you can do that in an evening, but I’m doubting it. He’s wearing Jedi robes/outfit indicating that he’s become more involved in the Jedi ways.
3. Lando has infiltrated Jabbas palace to the point that he can walk around there freely and seems to have some sort of guard job. Luke & Co. knew where Han was being taken, but it’s not a place you can just walk into and do as you please. It would take time to work your way in and be accepted as part of the gang. That don’t happen overnight either.
4. Yoda has gotten very weak and is about to die. No signs of that last time we saw him.

Just my thoughts. It’s cool if you disagree.

1. A traumatic event can do that to you. The fight with Vader and even hearing what Vader said, certainly qualifies as a very traumatic event in my opinion.

2. I don’t know what makes you think that Luke searched after ESB but not before. He had 3 years to try learn about Jedi and the Force. It’s hard to imagine, that he did not try.
   And we don’t know if Obi-wan did not help him at all, prior to that scene on Hoth. But I see no reason to think that he did not.
   I think he already had that chrystal, and skill to put a lightsabre together, but he had his lightsabre and didn’t need another.
   Actually I read a book, probably non new canon, that deals with Luke trying to learn to build a lightsabre, and it is set prior to ESB.

3. If well known criminal can vouch for Lando, and sure he has his ties to the underworld as a scoundrel, he can be hired on the spot. That is all it takes.

4. Yes Yoda is what I thought first is the most problematic with a short time theory. But I know, unfortunately, that a couple of weeks is a lot more then people would think.

Jani-wan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Also great to hear that Lando is gonna die.

??
What did I miss?

Don’t worry, it was all just a joke.

nhoj3 said:

Jani-wan said:

Oh, my.
It does not have to be 2 weeks.
It can be 3 weeks, 4 weeks. can be anything that is reasonable.
It can not be 6 month. That is not reasonable.

Can not sacrifice common sense for actors aging, that is barely recognizable, and the character’s aging could be easily chalked up to effects of resent events.

Jabba is probably on Tatooine. That is his headquarters, at least in the movies.
But for the sake of this argument let’s assume that he can be anywhere.
You do not go to every single place Jabba owns, and infiltrate and etc…
I lay it out for you, how would I find Luke the easy way if Im Lando.
I hire someone to negotiate my deal with Jabba, probably an old acquaintance, who can be trusted with this for the right amount of money, and merely provide escort as a ‘mercenary bodyguard’.
Contact Jabba’s nearest ‘representative’ and present an offer with one condition, that I only make deals with Jabba himself. Make the offer irrefusable, success is guaranteed. You can always count on greed.
Now I have Jabba’s location, and free pass, and don’t have to travel around the galaxy planet to planet and infiltrate and etc…
When deal is completed, ask Jabba for a job. With good credentials Im in.
Call Luke.
How long does this takes?
Couple of days, a week maybe, depending on travel distance, since we only know where Tatooine is but we don’t know where the fleet is.
Searching the galaxy for months is just stupid.

You’re pretty absolute with your opinions. I’m willing to at least entertain the idea of more flexibility in life (and interesting storytelling). For arguments sake I’m willing to throw out all other “what ifs” and go with your plan above.

1. Finding an old acquaintance- maybe one day, maybe weeks, maybe months. Perhaps your acquaintance is on a smuggling run. Perhaps he’s laying low from the Empire. Perhaps he’s imprisoned by the Empire and needs to be liberated to buy the goodwill to set up the Jabba deal. Who’s to say?
2. Arrange a meeting with Jabba - maybe one day, maybe weeks. A good negotiator doesn’t want to seem desperate. Who’s to say?
3. Travel time - pretty flexible on the Star Wars galaxy. Who’s to say?
4. Initial deal and infiltration- Jabba would have to be the most gullible slug in the galaxy to hire on your schedule. We’ve already seen from Boushh that he’s smarter than that. Donnie Brasco went undercover for 6 years. John Sherwood went undercover for 3 years. Do you honestly think Lando would be hired as a palace guard, holding a lethal weapon only feet from Jabba in a few days? Months (at a minimum) is more likely, and only after Lando had proven himself by doing some pretty awful things. Again, who’s to say?

I keep saying “who’s to say” to drive home the point that opinions aren’t absolutes. Life doesn’t always take the straight path from A to B. I think that it’s more than “reasonable” that “months” have expired. Much more so than “weeks”.

Not absolute, but close to it, yes. Most of the times.
It is because Im thinking every possible angle that I can come up with, argue myself, trying to find ways to prove that Im wrong, before I post anything.
Other people don’t. They try to bend everything to fit their desired outcome.
Still Im always open to change my mind, if the argument is convincing.

1. How many ‘friends’ you have on Facebook? Certainly not one. Probably hundreds.
   As most of the people. Just as Lando on ‘Star Wars Underworld Facebook’.

2. In this case the only goal is to get there, and not to negotiate the best price. Actually what you do is offer the deal of the century, so you get it done for sure, and as fast as you can. Did you ever try to sell something? Offer it at half price or less. It’ll be gone in a day on the internet. Or less.
   Lando only needs a negotiator, because he has to sell that he is a mercenary. If he goes himself to sell the goods, probably he won’t get the job.

3. Yeah, but I thought I made that clear.
   Im not sure about this, but I think you can fly from the outer edge of the mid-rim to the other edge in about a week or less.
   Surely not weeks, or a month.

4. Yes I would.
   If well known criminal can vouch for Lando, and sure he has his ties to the underworld as a scoundrel, he can be hired on the spot. That is all it takes.

Editroid said:

Jani-wan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Also great to hear that Lando is gonna die.

??
What did I miss?

Don’t worry, it was all just a joke.

Ok. 😃

Editroid said:

Jani-wan said:

TV’s Frink said:

Also great to hear that Lando is gonna die.

??
What did I miss?

Don’t worry, it was all just a joke.

No one will be laughing when Lando dies.

The canon firmly establishes that ROTJ takes place one year after the events of TESB.