zee944

g-force said:

What does everyone think?

-G

I think the subs should be placed in the picture where it originally was and in its original colour. Then the work is done, everything is faithful to the original and one can make his own corrections if he wants something different. Perhaps you can build in a variable in the script to turn it on and off, or place it in the black bars, if you want to make everybody happy. For me it's fine whatever you choose, as it is easy to change in the script.

And I'd prefer to wait for the PAL script, since that would be better quality. Am I right that you plan to write a "dual" script for ROTJ with a NTSC/PAL switch in the script?

CompMovieGuy said:

I think I would rather IVTC in AVS then use DGIndex's Force Film since its very hit n miss. Although I have never tried it on the GOUT so it could work well in that instance.

You're completely right. It totally depends on source if DGIndex's Force Film works well or not. I've found it so unreliable that I gave up on it and since then I use manual IVTC (Decomb) which works damn fine.

I disagree with Doctor M, I don't know why you let yourself talk round so easily when you was so certain about it.

Pericles77 said:

I'm curious as to why the ANH script contains the following:

episode==5 ? last.Trim(0,92103)++orig.Trim(92104,93601)++last.Trim(93602,0) : last

 

Also, why does it have the ROTJ subs? If I (obviously) don't want that in ANH, would I delete the following from the script?

 

No need to delete the ROTJ subs. They won't appear on ANH, that's what 'episode' variable controls. But if you're still worried, get VirtualDub, and open up the .avs script with that and you'll see.

Also, try to avoid DVDRebuilder's own resizing, and use g-force's as it is. Encode it as a 16:9 movie, no LB to 16:9 conversion.

irn-bru said:

g-force ive recently watched your script version od Star Wars and wow its beautiful. Cant wait to see Empire and Jedi , are they available yet ?

Empire is available. Jedi isn't. But as you can see, he'll post it when it is finished, be patient.

dark_jedi said:

zee944 said:

By the way, CCE isn't a good encoder at all. You should knock that too.

Then what is in your opinion?

Canopus Procoder 1.5. There are a few other encoders which are better than CCE, but who cares about them when you've Canopus?

dark_jedi said:

In closing, I guess I should NOT release them because I don't want him to think I am stealing HIS work again and not giving credit, so hopefully his versions will appear for you guys soon, we will see.

Well what actual intellectual property you have in this project? Because testing, encoding, capturing and such things doesn't qualify as essential work. Sure these operations takes time too, but they're not too complicated and a lots of others could have done that.

The essence of this project is probably the script itself which puts the quality of the GOUT onto a new level. The NFO file suggests you was the one who did the hard work, and others helped you, but it's probably isn't true. G-force should be taking the main credit* and writing a "thanks to" list mentioning you, not the other way around.

(*Others should take large credits too who edited and improved the audio tracks.)

Correct me if I'm wrong and you actually put heavy mindwork into improving the video or audio quality. Really it isn't meant to be an offensive post towards to you, I just couldn't resist commenting the situation.

By the way, CCE isn't a good encoder at all. You should knock that too.

msycamore said:

I understand what you mean, but the footage we all have of the Original films in the form of the GOUT isn't even DVD resolution. Of course we want a HD version but you can never make the HD footage blend with the GOUT footage even with g-force's superb script to look any good. We don't even have the trilogy in laserdisc quality without flaws.

You understand, but you still don't get my point. If you would have to watch Star Wars in 2012 on your plazma, what would you choose? The 2004 Special Edition with all the altered scenes and colors, or the same HD footage color corrected and with 10% of the scenes inserted in from the upscaled GOUT? My choice would be the latter. That's my point. Purists will tell you they'd choose the "third" option (watching the fixed GOUT on DVD) every day of the week, but most of us would watch in HD at least once.

I've never said the GOUT will look like the HD material. It won't. But we probably won't get a better source in the next five years.

msycamore said:

What I meant was I think you can blend "color corrected" footage from the Japanese Special Collection LD with the GOUT better than the SE because of the difference in resolution between the GOUT & SE, the JSC doesn't have DVNR applied to it.

Oh, I see, it makes sense now. But why on earth would you do that, when you already have the fixed GOUT? OK, not totally free of smearing, true. But making a HD version is more useful nowadays.

Chewtobacca said:

I don't think there will ever be a print with the colors of the original films. Even the original negatives will have faded by now, so even work on them involves conjecture. Adywan's colors, whether conjectural or not, are good enough for most people, I would imagine. If somebody can do that kind of color correction and scene restoration now, I don't see the need to wait for G-force to make his final version to make a theatrical restoration.

 

Isn't the GOUT faithful to the original? Or at least the most consistent? Is there any better version (official or non-official) than that? I haven't seen Adywan's work, but even if looks good, it may not be accurate.

At the present state, I think the fixed GOUT should be used as a reference and guide, unless someone can name a better source, which can be presumed "original" as far as colours goes.

msycamore said:

I think the best way would be to use footage from the Japanese Special Collection LD where the DVNR is worst because of the resolution differences.

Huh? :o What would be the Japanese SC LD good for, then?

I know it took Adywan a great deal of work to remove the ronto for his ANH:R, but if this can be done it must be possible to restore the theatrical version somehow.

First we need a full, stand-alone, consistent print with the right colours of the original movies; this is what g-force will finish sometime. After that somebody should start working on the HD version, using as much scenes from the HD version of the Special Edition as possible color corrected to g-force's work, and taking the altered scenes from that, too.

zee944 said:

g-force said:I've also found out how to repair a TON of detail by collecting pixels from the same object in different frames. The results are a little preliminary (like as of before work this morning) but the results so far are breathtaking (I literally couldn't believe my eyes!).

What did you find out? Please share :)

You haven't replied. Is it intentional?

g-force said:

Levels, if used incorrectly to increase brightness, will cause clipping of the whites. I am not using levels in this way.

You're right. Doesn't it affect the chroma though? You're using it in YUV colorspace.

g-force said:

One of Didee's poorest products IMHO. I'd be interested in looking at some specific examples if you want to actually try them on the GOUT and post what configuration works for you.

No need! I trust your observations, it was just a tip. YAHR() worked very well for me on a few blurry videos, never tried with good quality sources like this. I couldn't try it out as I didn't have the DVDs at hand.

g-force said:

Could you be more specific about what chroma problems you see?

Forget it. After a closer look, it was probably only a sign of the edge ehancement.

Oh well. I thought my post will be useful, but not at all. You've passed my ideas long time ago.

And I'd like to ask something:

g-force said:I've also found out how to repair a TON of detail by collecting pixels from the same object in different frames. The results are a little preliminary (like as of before work this morning) but the results so far are breathtaking (I literally couldn't believe my eyes!).

What did you find out? Please share :)

Hey Everyone,

In the last one day, I've read through this topic - all the 29 pages, yes. First of all, it's very nice to see someone who knows what he does, and can go near the limits. Thank you g-force for your commitment and hard work - and everyone else's work you based your script on.

Some suggestions for the script:

1. Levels() causes clipping in the video, burning out some details in the brights spots (perhaps even in the not-so-bright spots). It'd be better to draw an arbitrary curve and apply that to the video. It takes a while to draw the perfect curve, but you'll bring back some of the details you've lost before with the brightening. For instance, it'll very likely make that light grey smoke better.

You can draw the curve with BugsBunny's Gradation curves filter in "RGB weighted" mode, save it to an .AMP file, then feed it in AviSynth with GiCoCu like the following:

MergeChroma(GiCoCU("GOUT_levels_curve.amp",photoshop=true)

It's highly recommended to save the curve in .ACV format too to make further editing possible. Be careful with the curve though, make sure you don't brighten up anything more than it is neccessary. With a little rougher curve than the optimum you'll loose a lot of fine details. Check (and compare) the result on people's face in particular.

2. There's some halos around the edges; try YAHR() to reduce them. If you find YAHR's strength a bit too high (losing details), try increase sharpening first and stop right before the halos appear again. If you don't like to result, you may want to use supersampling. Anyway, you'll see what YAHR() does and if it improves your video or not. Probably yes.

3. From the screencaps I have seen there seem to be a very slight chroma problem. Try MergeChroma(aWarpSharp(depth=32, blurlevel=1, thresh=0.5, cm=1)). (Values are not set for this video.) Merge() instead of MergeChroma() can help too (perhaps combining too would be the best), although that causes small deformations. Still worth a try.

4. I don't have the GOUT discs at hand now, so I can't check the smearing. If it's a smearing similar to color bleeding, YAHR() and other aWarpSharp tricks above may help. If it's like fieldblending (that means the trails are coming from the neighbour frames - the smearing led to four-eyed startroopers) then there are a few filters to remove this. But I don't know how to use these, so it's really just a guess. I'm just hoping you'll find some solution for that. It'd be too bad if the smearing would hold back this being the best source for having the untampered trilogy.

PaulisDead2221 said:

zee944 said:

Wait... you mean ALL the work you've done with this project so far is GONE? Painting light sabres, layering stars in and out, color correcting, removing yitter, and a lot of other things in the past 2 or 3 years I can't even remember, all for nothing?

 

Well I didn't paint any lightsabers. I tried to bring back the stars for the opening shot. Color correcting was all about trying to tweak it from the histogram functions in avisynth. I don't know what yitter is. All I was doing (and had to do about ten times over and over again) was edit in the non-CGI shots, mix HD/GOUT elements when possible, try to get the avisynth automatic color correction function working, collecting audio, making my own mix, and of course try and export the project so I could see how I was doing (this I never could get to not fail during the encoding process). It was lame, but yes all that is gone. Any one attempt never took any more than a few weeks before I hit an insurmountable wall.

Again, an edit like this only takes a few weeks. It was running into territory where I didn't know what i was doing that was the problem (ie manual color correction, trying to correct a couple lightsaber shots). I will try again when new source material presents itself.

I've meant jitter, sorry. Judging from the opinions in this thread you were still doing better then the earlier versions. Quite sad all this has been lost. On mixing HD/GOUT elements you mean taking a part of a frame from the first source, notching it with the other part of the same frame from the other source? And this way covering a new creature George put in the background, for instance?

Anyway, I hope you'll try again doing a HD version of Star Wars. Count with me with the color correction issue, I really think it is worth a try. It may not be good enough for this source, but there's a chance it'll turn out very well.

Wait... you mean ALL the work you've done with this project so far is GONE? Painting light sabres, layering stars in and out, color correcting, removing yitter, and a lot of other things in the past 2 or 3 years I can't even remember, all for nothing?

PaulisDead2221 said:

Anyway, so don't worry about it. The good news is that I got the '77 theatrical surround "preservation" done. I just need to reinstall Premiere to go get it.

Hey PaulisDead,


1. Am I right to think you use the HD broadcast (being the best source) for the 90% of the movie, and replace the few "enhanced" scenes from a touched-up version of GLOT? Then what is the 2004 SE version good for?

2. Will the 6 channels audio sound as good as the the 2004 SE 5.1? This may sound heretical, but I liked listening the trilogy in 5.1.

3. It might be too late, but do you still have issues with the color correction and the right luma levels throughout the frames? If yes, perhaps I could help you a little bit. Could you send me a few pair of screencaps? A "before" screencap - the one you want to tweak; and an "after" screencap - the look you want to achieve by tweaking the source screencap. The more pairs you can send the better. My method in AviSynth doesn't involve pixel-for-pixel geometry matching. It'll match both the luma levels (by doing an arbitrary luma curve) and the colors non-linearry without bleeding. I don't know how will it work on your source, but it's worth a try.