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vtpeters

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Join date
20-Apr-2003
Last activity
22-Dec-2006
Posts
45

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Post
#191232
Topic
Hayden Christensen wins Razzie for ROTS
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/191232/action/topic#191232
Time
Not to defend the actors on the PT, but GL does several takes of a scene and decides afterwards what is going to be used in the movie. In fact, he admits to this being his favorite part of movie making. He likes to play around in post with what the actors have done during principal photography. In this manner he has tried to 'fix' some of Jake's acting in Episode 1 (I remember him saying something along that line in the Making Of Episode 1 documentary).
If an acting performance is 90% spot on and GL dicides to use the other 10% (takes that you as an actor weren't happy about), how much are you to blame? Remember, the actors aren't present during post and may not even see their perfomance until the trails or the premier.
Besides, let's not forget that on Episode 2 and 3 there are no real sets. Just blue or green screens where sets are going to be added digitaly afterwards (and they somehow these digital sets 'feel' fake). Not much 'help' for the actors there to get into character. Just dots on a screen or wall to get their eye lines right and GL 'famous' direction: "Faster, more intense".
No wonder that, in my opinion, all actors look bad in the prequels. Without any exception, no matter what their track record is.
Post
#161617
Topic
The Star Wars Saga - From a newcomer's point of view
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/161617/action/topic#161617
Time
That is one of the biggest failing of the PT is it was never funny. Whenever it tried it just came off as bad lines read by the actor. Remember in AOTC, when ObiWan is chasing Zam Weisel in Coruscant and Anakin goes to find a speeder, and when they finally catch up with each other, ObiWan asks him where he has been? Anakin says, "Oh, yo know, I was........." I don't remember the exact words Anakin said, but it just wasn't funny! Every attempt at humor in the PT was just forced and wasn't funny. The OT was very funny, mostly between Han, Leia, and Luke, it wasn't forced, and it was the first scifi movie that was serious yet hysterical too. That combo is the reason I love those three movies.


Anakin couldn't find one that he liked, or something along those lines. And you're right. Most lines that are spoken sound as if they were read from a sheet of paper (which is actually true, during ADR).

To get back to the original posting about the 'enjoyment' of the viewing experience when watching the PT and OT in the same orde as the Star Wars timeline...
Although I do not doubt it could be a different experience, I wonder if it would have been affected in any way if the Original Trilogy for Episodes IV to VI was used instead of the Prequels?
I think none of the alterations to the OT add much (if anything) to the story or the characters. Some additions gave us a little more information on the back story, but most of them are 'window dressing' and re-work of special effects.
Post
#159465
Topic
It's official, George is really losing it (claims more changes to the OT to come...)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159465/action/topic#159465
Time
On the exra's of Episode III (the same documentary I got the screen shot at the beginning of this thread) he admits to the fact that in Epsiode IV Darth Vader was nothing more than "just a villain". In Episode V he hinted on a possibility of a father-son relationship between Luke and Vader, but at the beginning of writing for Episode VI he still had serious doubts if he would continue along that direction. Words along these lines are spoken by George Lucas in an Epsiode VI 'making of' documentary I have on VHS.

With all this in mind I believe there may have been a rough outline to the story which spans more than just the movie that was made first, but never in the sense that would make Vader's (or Anakin's) role more prominent or central to the Star Wars 'mythology'. In Epsiode IV Vader is nothing more than a henchman to Tarkin (which places him lower in the Emperial hierarchy) than Tarkin, but in Episode III he's the second in command to the Emperor.

Are these (amongst many others) the kind of plot holes and continuity errors that need to be addressed while re-working the OT en PT for the 30th Anniversary release in 2007?

The Original Trilogy stories are OK just as they were when they were released to the public. But George Lucas messed up while writing the Prequels, neglecting important character releationships, timelines, etcetera that had been established in the Original Trilogy for years.
Ever since the Original Trilogy the Star Wars 'universe' has been expanded by the publication of Star Wars games and books. For all of these additions to the Star Wars storyline (I assume) George Lucas has kept a watchfull eye. After all, any license the the Star Wars franchise has to go through George (or his company). However voluminous the Star Wars universe may have become over the years, he should have taken all of these additions into account while creating another part of the story or filming Episode I to III. Apologies NOT accepted, captain Needa.

As far is comparing Lucas' writing to Tolkien's work ...
Tolkien wrote The Hobbit first and The Lord Of The Rings after that. The chronology of the story line is simular to the publication order of the books. Hobbit first, The Fellowship Of The Ring second, The Two Towers third and finally The Return Of The King.
Tolkien's The Silmarillion however was published much later. Tolkien died before he could finish it, his son Christopher completed it based on his father's notes and existing material written earlier. The Silmarillion documents all the back story to the events in The Hobbit and The Lord Of The Rings (and other stories). A sort of Middel-Earth 'bible'.
In that respect the Prequels are a sort of 'mini' The Silmarillion, just focussing on a very small part of the Star Wars backstory.
Post
#159173
Topic
It's official, George is really losing it (claims more changes to the OT to come...)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/159173/action/topic#159173
Time
If there are plot holes or continuity problems in the OT, the PT and between both trilogies, there is only one person to blame for this. The original creator of the Star Wars universe and writer of these stories.

He claims to have had the whole story in place before punching out the details for his first Star Wars movie (now known as Episode IV) because there was not enough money to do the whole story. But something went wrong while punching out the details for Episodes I to III, creating several plot holes as he went along. For some he created in Episodes I and II he promised he would resolve them in Epsiode III, but didn't deliver. I doubt he'll be able to connect the dots story wise through both trologies when he produces is new 'final' version (you know, the one he envisioned in the first place, but wasn't able to make due to <excuse1>, <lame excuse2>, etc.). Only time will tell...
Post
#158750
Topic
It's official, George is really losing it (claims more changes to the OT to come...)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/158750/action/topic#158750
Time

I’m not sure if anyone has posted a topic on this matter before, but …

For those of you who don’t have Episode III on DVD or haven’t noticed this peace of information on the extra’s DVD. There’s going to be yet another edit of the Original Trilogy. I heard George Lucas say it on a short ‘Darth Vader’ documentary on the 2nd disc of the Episode III DVD. He clearly states that new things will be added to Episodes IV, V and IV, things that we haven’t seen before.
You don’t have to take my word for it. Here’s a screen shot of the documentary (with English subtitles turned on so you can read what he’s saying):

http://members.chello.nl/~v.peters2/images/ROTS_to_come.jpg

So, his ‘final’ version of the Original Trilogy (the one that was released on DVD almost a year ago), the movies as he originally envisioned them to be but couldn’t make back then due to money, time and technology constrains, were actually … well … NOT what he claimed them to be when they were released. He told us the same lie with the 1997 Special Editions and now it seems there will be another ‘final’ version.

To George I’d have to say: “Stop it right there, mister Lucas!”
Give the loyal fans what they’ve been asking for: an un-edited version of the Original Trilogy.
After that you can mess up the movies as much as you like and no one will blame you for it (and just few fans will buy them, and that’s what it’s all about, isn’t it).

Post
#44980
Topic
Plot holes in the SW saga
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/44980/action/topic#44980
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Bossk

I agree to a degree. He wrote ANH and saw what a success it was and then wrote ESB and ROTJ together. How could he have risked writing ESB with the ending that it had and, if it wasn't successful, he winds up with a story line that is dangling at the end. ESB and ROTJ were written together. I'm sure he had the idea of making this a series from the get go. But I doubt he had the story dreamed up. Just a rough outline, at best.


Okay, once more.

GL wrote Episode VI after he had finished Episode V. He may have written some of the back story earlier, but while writing Episode VI he was seriously wondering if he would follow up on the father-son relationship he hinted on in Episode V. He admits to this in an interview on the documentary VHS tape "Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga". He made sure not to leave any blank spots (story wise) by having Uncle Owen and Obi-wan tell Luke in Episode IV that his father was murdered by Darth Vader. In Episode VI he decided to turn the story around and establish the father-son relationship between these two characters.

So ... NO. He didn't write both stories at the same time. A rough outline might have been writen earlier, the actual screenplay/story of Episode VI was written when Episode V has released in theater.
The open ending or cliffhanger at the end of Episode V was to make people curious about the next Episode, to lure them into the theater for the next movie. I'm sure that, if Episode V would not have made enough money at the box office, Episode VI and all prequals would never have been made.
Post
#44277
Topic
Plot holes in the SW saga
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/44277/action/topic#44277
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Darth Chaltab
Yeah. I think Lucas planned to have Vader be Luke's father all along, otherwise they would'nt have put so much emphasis on him in A New Hope. Lines like "the Force is strong with this one" make more sense in the context of Vader being Lukes father, since Vader is the second strongest in the Force ever. Also, Luke has met Ben Kenobi before A New Hope. Watch the scene again. Luke doesn't introduce himself.


As hard as it seems to swallow by some here on the forum, GL wasn't sure if he wanted to go through with the father-son relationship between Vader and Luke, which was part of the cliffhanger at the end of Episode V. He decided that he would go ahead with this idea while writing Episode VI. I got this from his own mouth in the documentary "Star Wars to Jedi, the making of a Saga", which I have on VHS.

As far as 'signs' of their relationship already shining through in Episode IV...
Luke's father might have been a Jedi knight and murdered by Darth Vader, just as Obi-Wan told Luke. On basis of the information given in Episode IV and the first part of Episode V (before the "I am your father" thing at the end), Luke's father and Darth Vader could just as well be two intirely different persons all together. Luke being strong with the force (as noted by Darth Vader during the Trench scene) could be due to Luke being the son of a former Jedi knight (who is dead for all we know at the time) and not necessarely because he is Darth Vader's son.

Obi-Wan and Luke have never met before (in person) prior to their meating in A New Hope.
When they meet, Obi-Wan knows who Luke is and calles him by his name. Luke however looks at the old man and asks: "Ben? Ben Kenobi?" Not a question you'd ask if you've met someone before.
During a dining scene at uncle Owens farm, leading up to the discovery that the little R2 unit has gone, Luke says the R2 unit might have been stolen and that it claims to belong to someone named Obi-Wan Kenobi. "Maybe he means old Ben Kenobi? Do you know what he's talking about?" Luke appearently doens't know that Obi-Wan and Ben are one and the same person.
This are examples of how well Luke knows Ben (NOT!). More likely Luke knows off Ben instead of knowing him. Obi-Wan however is more likely to know more about Luke. He might have been interested in Luke's walk of life for sentimental reasons, being the son of his former apprentice, or with the purpose to train him as a Jedi.
Post
#44107
Topic
Plot holes in the SW saga
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/44107/action/topic#44107
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: HotRod
Quote
Originally posted by: vtpeters
Hang on a sec.....

Where are these changes you speak of????


All the changes he made to the OT for the 1997 SE. None of them added (much) to the story and were only meant to be eye candy, correct some minor 'defects' in the effect shots or better represent his 'vision' (up-scaling Mos Eisley, etc.).
Post
#43966
Topic
Plot holes in the SW saga
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/43966/action/topic#43966
Time
>But, I can't seem to find any in Star wars...

Episodes I and II introduced more plot holes to the Star Wars saga than any other Episode. I can't tell you exactly which holes, but they're there (and a lot of them too). Unfortunately story incosistencies have been removed from the Internet Movie Database until Episode III has been released.

In Episode V on the ice planet Hoth, shortly before Luke is rescued by Han Solo, Obi-Wan Kenobi appears before Luke instructing hime to go to Dagobah to be trained by the same Jedi master who instructed him. Later in the movie Luke receives his training from Yoda. In Episode I however we learn that Qui-Gon Jinn is the instructor of young Obi-Wan Kenobi.
This plot hole had to be corrected by GL and he did. In Episode II we see Obi-Wan entering a class at some sort of Jedi training centre and we see Yoda teach very young children the ways of The Force. We're meant to assume that this is where Obi-Wan received his first training as a small child too, prior to being appointed the Qui-Gon Jinn as a Padawan Learner.

During his second visit to Dagobah in Episode VI, Luke is told by Obi-Wan that he (Obi-Wan) "took it upon himself to train him as a Jedi" (refering to Anakin Skywalker), thinking he could do this just as good as Yoda. In Episode I we see Qui-Gon Jinn being the one who does just that. Obi-Wan Kenobi only takes over this 'job' reluctantly after Qui-Gon Jinn has been killed at the end of Episode I. Not exactly the way Obi-Wan told Luke (and us) the way it all happened. Maybe the conversation in Episode VI will be changed in the upcoming DVD to match the events in Episode I.

This is one of the reasons I disslike the updated and altered versions of the Original Trilogy. They are fine the way they are. All changes made to these movies are either cosmetic and as such are only meant as eye candy, not adding anything to the story, or they are meant to cover-up plot holes that were introduced in Episodes I and II. If he had watched his Original Trilogy more carefully before writing the stories for the prequels, he wouln't have to correct these unnecessary plot holes afterwards.
Post
#43646
Topic
MORE CHANGES!!! (for the 2004 OT DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/43646/action/topic#43646
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: Han's Girlfriend
... i also think that the prequels would be better liked too, since many of the changes in the SE have been made to adapt it better to the prequels. there's a certain resentment for them as well.


If this were the only reason, he would have to resolve a lot (and I mean: A LOT, too numerous to mention) of plot holes in the original trilogy AND in the prequels. Unfortunately all "goofs" for the Episode I and II on the <a href="http://www.imdb.com">Internet Movie DataBase</a> that are related to (story) inconsistencies are removed untill Episode III has been released. I doubt GL, being the perfectionist that he is, will be able to resolve all plot holes adequately. Time will tell...
Post
#43634
Topic
MORE CHANGES!!! (for the 2004 OT DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/43634/action/topic#43634
Time
Those of you who feel he has every right to change his movies however and whenever he wants to: You are right!

But that doesn't mean we all have to agree on his new and improved version every time he makes another change to the original trilogy (the 1997 SE, the 2004 DVD release and maybe the 30th Aniversary Edition).

All these changes to the original movies would've never provoked such strong reactions if the original cuts were available on DVD. The fans would be able to make up their own mind whether to buy the new(er) version or just stick with the originals.
If this were the case, I'm almost certain GL would never see a Return Of Investment from his improved versions. Now, by preventing the original versions of Episodes IV-VI from being releaed on DVD (for the time being), he can have it both ways: change the movies to match his 'vision' and make money while he does. The ONLY way a fan can obtain a LEGAL copy is by buying the altered versions on DVD in september 2004. It's either this version on DVD or no DVD at all. Not much of a choice is there?
Post
#43222
Topic
MORE CHANGES!!! (for the 2004 OT DVD release)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/43222/action/topic#43222
Time
Quote
Originally posted by: jimbo
The Ultimate Editions will rock. They are finally going to look advanced and will make it look like all six movies were made in order.


Yeah, right!

And in 10-20 years time, when computer technology has progressed even further, he will feel a strong desire to change all 6 episodes yet once again.
GL (in 20 years time): "I feel I could have done a better job with them, but the technology to make the movies I envisioned wasn't available at that time."

Come on!

This way, there will NEVER be a "final" or "definitive" version of the Star Wars movies. Ever.
And even when GL decides to change the movies every 10-20 years, all the costumes and designs (sets, props, spaceships, etc.) - even the actor's haircuts - will ALWAYS make the movies look outdated (or at least show the period in which the movies were made), no matter how hard he tries it not to.

Give it a rest, George! We all love your original trilogy, just as they were when they were released.
Post
#42606
Topic
Changes in 2004 DVDs
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/42606/action/topic#42606
Time
Your joking about AOTC being the best movie ever, right?
There's more to a "best movie" then just the integration of action and story. Acting performance, cinematography and direction are just three of the many factors that come in to play for making a great movie. Episode II didn't score well in any of these catagories and the Academy of Motion Picture, Science and Arts didn't think that well of them either.

As far as I know, the version released on DVD next september will be the '97 Special Edition with some additions and alterations.
According to The Digital Bits the shot with the Emperor in TESB will be altered and finally match the Emperor in ROTJ (why didn't Lucas do this for the Special Edition in the first place?). The Jabba creature in the Mos Eisley hangar scene was never up to standards and I've always wondered how this scene made it into the Special Edition, considering Lucas being such a perfectionist and 'quality freak'. He'd better left it out again (it doens't add much to the story anyway), but instead he'll 'improve' the scene using a better CGI model (and off course 6-7 years worth of software improvements). If these were all the changes he's making to the Special Edition, I could live with that (except for the Greedo shoots first thing). But I'm afraid he won't leave it with that...

While work on the '79 Special Editions progressed, the official Star Wars website was very informative on the changes and 'improvements' made to the original version. For the DVD release there has been NO official word (yet) on the changes that no doubt will b made to the movies. We'll just have to wait and see...
Post
#41383
Topic
Lucasfilm DVD announcement: they are NOT the original cuts, they're the Special Editions.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/41383/action/topic#41383
Time
I used the "Buy it now" option to make sure I got my copy of the original trilogy. I paid $ 71,- (incl. shipping), which is about € 60,- for three movies sent to my mailing address. Not a bad deal, considered these versions most likely will never see a release on DVD.

You can buy these DVD's for less if you're willing to go for the bidding part. But you could be outbid and rist the change to not 'win' the item you were bidding on and thus not obtaining the movies. But then again, these DVD's are on offer by more sellers (and even offered more than once by the same seller).
Post
#41216
Topic
Lucasfilm DVD announcement: they are NOT the original cuts, they're the Special Editions.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/41216/action/topic#41216
Time
The DVD's are actually DVD-recordable (4.7 GB of data). Picture and sound quality is good, thanks to the good source material which was a LaserDisc set of the movie. The movies are presented in letterboxed format, preserving the original aspect ratio of 1 : 2.35. The movies don't have subtitles, except for the parts when the conversation is not in English (e.g. between Gredo and Han Solo in the Cantina Bar). There is no chapter selection, but you can skip through the movie by pressing the next chapter button on the remote control.

I bought the movies at Ebay.com. All you have to do is search at Ebay using "Star Wars Trilogy DVD" as search string and you'll get a list of DVD's (and VCD's) on offer.

Buying the DVD's at Ebay saves me the trouble of capturing the original widescreen VHS tapes I own and burning the movies to SVCD's (I'm still waiting for the first dual-layer DVD-burner). I also own the Special Edition widescreen version on VHS and and the official Special Edition version on VideoCD and I propably will buy the official DVD's when they are released in september.
Buying the Original Trilogy on DVD is a bit of a grey area really. Officially it's not allowed, but as GL himself has stated once and again, these orginal versions do not exist anymore. So in fact he is not missing out on any sales to be made with them (also read a older column on this matter at The Digital Bits).
Post
#39981
Topic
Lucasfilm DVD announcement: they are NOT the original cuts, they're the Special Editions.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/39981/action/topic#39981
Time
GL can screw around with HIS trilogy as much as he wants to.

I made sure I got the original trilogy on DVD from Ebay, as a timesaver instead of making a copy of my own 'widescreen' VHS tapes. Whatever version he decides to release next september, I'm home safe. I might even consider boycotting the official release to send a message. But this all depends on what the version (and further additions) will be when the DVD finally arrives...

Victor