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SpenceEdit

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31-Jan-2011
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7-Dec-2023
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845

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Post
#1567798
Topic
Spence's ST Preferred Versions
Time

Octorox said:

I prefer the restructured format for TFA, but otherwise these look pretty close to what my preferred versions would be. Excited to check out TLJ especially.

My argument against the restructure, which I agree makes more logical sense and does work, is that there’s already a ton happening at the end of that movie. Han dies, Finn gets horribly injured (and in the moment looks to be dead) Rey uses the Force for the first time, Kylo injured, etc. Adding that big moment in with all those other big moments feels like one too many and lessens the impact of what’s already there.

I understand preferring it, but I just never have.

Post
#1567768
Topic
Spence's ST Preferred Versions
Time

Hi All!

I must confess, I’m a big fan of the first two films in the Sequel Trilogy, and quite like them the way they are. However, there are some great changes that have been made to them by various editors over the years, so I’m cobbling together what I consider to be my “preferred” versions of the films. These, for most people, will be totally unnecessary and I’m making them mainly for myself, but since opinions on the films are so varied, I thought I’d share them when I complete them.

Here’s what I intend:

Force Awakens:

  • Both films will open with the original 20th century Fox and Lucafilm logos from the 70’s and include the fanfare so all 9 of my versions of the movies are uniform.
  • Based mainly on Starlight, but not as drastic as that version. I want to keep a lot of the quality of life improvements and first act restructuring.
  • I want to have Jakku it’s original color timing.
  • Things like the etching in Rey’s home will stay, but I won’t include her getting “sith eyes” at the end.
  • The first Falcon sequence will use Adywan’s IMAX restoration so that aspect ratio will open up.
  • I also don’t want to use the “restructured” format, so the Hosnian system/New Republic will be destroyed in the middle of the film, like the theatrical version.
  • Definitely including the deleted scene of Kylo on the Falcon.
  • The third act of the film after Solo and Finn find Rey is more or less unchanged.

Last Jedi:

  • An even softer edit, this version will include a few quality of life improvements from HAL (adjusted timing at Snoke’s death, etc.) but mostly remain unchanged.
  • The “Leia remembers Han” and “Third lesson” deleted scenes will be included.

Again, these are mostly going to be pointless edits for most people, but I wanted these slightly extended, slightly reorganized versions for myself. So by the time I’m done, I’ll have my versions of the Prequels that are nearly completed, 4K77-4K80-4K83, these two edits, and The Final Order. The whole saga to fit my particular tastes. Everything should also fit nicely with Ascendent if you don’t want my more dramatically different version of TROS or you want something closer to canon.

I’m wrapping up work on the prequels, which will hopefully be done and released by the end of the year, then I’ll probably put these together. They shouldn’t take very long.

Post
#1567439
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

So unfortunately we are unable to remove the background noises of the lightsabers. And because of that those lines would have to be created by someone who can do a good Anakin impression. But as you said, you aren’t interested in disturbing Hayden’s performance. So our only option would be to find a better way to isolate his lines in those places.

However, as a proof of concept, here are his first two lines de-aged:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1arnygZfBjcmIBnS9OKvi1Wm-ftnx-PWX/view?usp=sharing

This is impressive, however, I’m not sure that the benefits of it is worth the extra work of getting a clean audio track. I want to see what the reactions to it on the workprint are first.

Honestly, if I could find a way to remove the saber glow from on their bodies, it would work infinitely better. But I haven’t figured out a good way to do that yet.

Post
#1567435
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Darthkovacss said:

I have watched the work print of AotC, overall I really enjoyed it. I think the only thing that threw me off was 1h16m24s, Anakin jumps up, slices the still active arm then instantly jumps to everything being deactivated and him captured, just felt a little jarring, the instant drop of padme felt slightly weird but I don’t know if her being trapped. Anakin getting captured then her being dropped and surrounded would work better. I’ve assumed you have tried some different things there. Apart from the ending of this part, everything else was really enjoyable ❤️

Hey! Thanks for that. That scene was nagging at me as well, I wasn’t sure if it was working as intended. I’ll play with it.

Post
#1567132
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Well I already found a few minor things I want to adjust so I wouldn’t consider these “final versions” but they’re pretty close. I plan on tweaking the color timing a little as it looks way more drastic on a tv than it did on my computer. A couple of minor nips and tucks I noticed as well, but nothing major. You can watch these workprints without any glaring issues.

Post
#1566595
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Here’s the ending of ROTS. I’m pretty happy with how this is turning out.

  • I decided that the last thing we would see of Vader would be the mask coming down. I find the scenes after that clunky and they lessen the impact of the helmet moment.
  • I also jettisoned Yoda giving Obi-Wan “training” and mentioning Qui-Gon. I always kind of hated that we stop the end of the movie dead so Yoda can fill in that plot hole. I’d rather just have the plot hole.
  • I am on the fence as to whether I want to include Yoda arriving on Dagobah. I like it, but it doesn’t feel necessary.
  • You’ll notice I changed that weird circle in transition on 3PO’s face to something different.
  • That’s me playing the medical droid, making my Star Wars acting debut (I’m also the protocol droid that isn’t 3PO in AOTC.) I wanted to remove the bit about her “losing the will to live” but my edits didn’t ever come out exactly how I wanted. So I figured I could just dub over him to get the dialogue I needed.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1tISqzDEXun1503ES6QOl29_tNIKA0gQJ/view?usp=drive_link

Post
#1566483
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

It isn’t something that AI would create 100% though. It’s more like applying a voice filter to the preexisting performance.

Yeah, I just doubt it’d be worth it anyway. The main stumbling block is the cinematography, and there’s nothing to really be done about that. Even if I stabilize the handheld camera, the choice of lenses and shots don’t match.

Post
#1566473
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

Hayden’s voice could probably be fixed - it would just take quite a bit of effort.

We’d need to rip the center channel of when he’s speaking from other parts of the film and isolate his voice with AI. Then we use that as source material for a voice clone. And then we input his lines from the Kenobi scene into the new ElevenLab’s feature. His lines would then sound like his younger self and be delivered exactly how they were originally.

But yeah that’s a lot of effort for only one piece to the puzzle. The camera work is always going to be out of place.

I also don’t love the idea of messing with his performance in that way. The face deepfake thing is pretty subtle but replacing his dialogue with something AI created doesn’t sit well with me.

Post
#1566313
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Jar Jar Bricks said:

SpenceEdit said:

timdiggerm said:

SpenceEdit said:

I’ve decided to release two versions of AOTC, exactly the same except one will include the flashback scene from Obi-Wan Kenobi and the other will not. I’ve thought a lot about this, and I personally feel like having the scene is like slotting in a missing piece of the script, something that always should’ve been there. However, I can’t ignore that no matter how much tinkering I do, it will never feel like it’s completely a part of this film, as it was filmed 20+ years later than the rest of it. Some may be more bothered by it’s inclusion than others, and I’ve made a lot of changes beyond that that people may be interested in. So it’s going to be available with the scene (my preferred version, and the one I’ll personally watch) and without it.

Have you done much in making it look worse, so it fits the rest of the film better?

The problem is mostly that the cinematography styles don’t match and the actors are visibly two decades older.

Aren’t you using the deep fake version?

I am, but just like deepfakes in general, it only goes so far. Hayden is built completely differently now, and his voice sounds different.

On top of that, you have the more kinetic directing/editing style, which I’ve worked on but still doesn’t match the film. The lightsaber glow on their faces/surroundings, etc. It just doesn’t quite fit. Nothing will make it fit completely.

But it’s a great, important scene. So I’ll do my very best with it and have available that way for those that want it.

Post
#1566196
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

timdiggerm said:

SpenceEdit said:

I’ve decided to release two versions of AOTC, exactly the same except one will include the flashback scene from Obi-Wan Kenobi and the other will not. I’ve thought a lot about this, and I personally feel like having the scene is like slotting in a missing piece of the script, something that always should’ve been there. However, I can’t ignore that no matter how much tinkering I do, it will never feel like it’s completely a part of this film, as it was filmed 20+ years later than the rest of it. Some may be more bothered by it’s inclusion than others, and I’ve made a lot of changes beyond that that people may be interested in. So it’s going to be available with the scene (my preferred version, and the one I’ll personally watch) and without it.

Have you done much in making it look worse, so it fits the rest of the film better?

The problem is mostly that the cinematography styles don’t match and the actors are visibly two decades older.

Post
#1566169
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Hi everyone, sorry I disappeared for a bit. Real life got in the way.

I’m back to working on this after satisfying my obligations to another project. AOTC is still getting fine tuned and is almooost there. There’s a lot more going on in this edit as opposed to TPM, with lots of effects shots and reordering, often requiring new music cues.

Currently, I’m trying to get the deleted scenes looking a little closer to the rest of the film, which is tricky since they’re only really available in DVD quality with some fan upscales out there. There’s a good 20 minute section of the movie that’s almost entirely made up of deleted scenes, so the quality drop is more noticeable than it would be in the other films. I’ve been toying with them in Topaz and they’re getting to the point where I’m pretty happy with them.

I’ve decided to release two versions of AOTC, exactly the same except one will include the flashback scene from Obi-Wan Kenobi and the other will not. I’ve thought a lot about this, and I personally feel like having the scene is like slotting in a missing piece of the script, something that always should’ve been there. However, I can’t ignore that no matter how much tinkering I do, it will never feel like it’s completely a part of this film, as it was filmed 20+ years later than the rest of it. Some may be more bothered by it’s inclusion than others, and I’ve made a lot of changes beyond that that people may be interested in. So it’s going to be available with the scene (my preferred version, and the one I’ll personally watch) and without it.

Post
#1559607
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Daiyus said:

There was an audio shadow we noticed from one of the deleted lines during the podracer build; you can just hear C-3PO’s line about Jar Jar being an odd creature. I think the only continuity error I noticed was during the podrace; Anakin does his barrel roll over Teemto Pagalies, but then a few shots later we see Anakin moving up the field to pass him again down the canyon.

I’m having trouble locating this audio shadow, you wouldn’t be able to pinpoint where it is, would you?

Post
#1559215
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Daiyus said:

Is there any way to use some of the battle shots in the throne room but mask the blaster fire to show the droids breaking down before launching into Padme’s “new treaty” line? It only needs a couple of seconds I think.

I have tried to make this happen so hard, but so far haven’t been able to make it work. It’s something I definitely want to include so I’m going to give it another attempt with fresh eyes. Thanks for the feedback! I’ll also look into that 3PO line bleeding over the surround channels.

Post
#1557778
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

timdiggerm said:

G&G-Fan said:

I find it kinda ironic that you cut the bongo sequence with the sea monsters because the cool creature stuff is the only reason I’d ever keep the journey to Otoh Gungah at all. Just my preference tho, obviously you can do what you want.

I feel like, without Otoh Gungah, Boss Nass & Co come out of nowhere in the 3rd act

This is the reason I kept it. Not only does it introduce the other Gungans, a very important part of the third act, but it lets us get to know Jar Jar.

Post
#1557777
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

Octorox said:

So I finally was able to put some time aside to finish watching. Overall, I liked it but I don’t think it’s the Phantom Menace edit for me. There were a few too many little things left in that still grated on me, and missed C-3PO’s presence in the movie more than I thought I would. That said, I do really appreciate some of the choices that were made, particularly the Otoh Gunga sequence and the podrace were really well done.

I did spot C-3PO in the background of one shot during the podrace, although without context he could easily just be another droid. Not sure if that was an oversight or not.

That’s an oversight, do you remember when it was?

Post
#1557281
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

EddieDean said:

I thought the wound tending was absolutely fine- basically all of Tattooine I thought flowed really nicely.

I never had a problem with C-3PO being made by Anakin (though Hal’s middle ground is good too), but didn’t miss it too much. How will your edit eventually have him join the plot? I hope in time for the Clone Wars?

He’s kind of just Padme’s droid in ROTS. No other backstory.

Post
#1557225
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

hinventon said:

I thought it was really great, the edits were smooth and I didn’t really notice anything missing. The train and coloring really help the cgi to blend better too. Here are some things I would maybe change:

  • I think a new crawl with the preserved title would be a good change, the current one is bogged down by taxes and trade routes for two paragraphs instead of establishing the Galaxy.

  • I’d maybe remove the big boss nass blubber, the little one he does before it seems like enough

  • The midichlorian scene could probably be removed completely, I was kind of confused on what qui gon was doing to Anakin. Did he get burnt or something?

  • Personally I’d like to see the whole chosen one prophecy removed, I think the three trilogies mesh better without it. Not sure how you’d do it with qui gon and Yoda at the end though.

  • This may just be my speakers, but I felt like I had to turn the volume up for dialogue and down for the action heavy stuff. Maybe take a look at the mixing?

That’s all I can think of right now, I’ll go back through it and see if anything else sticks out. Can’t wait for AOTC.

I’m definitely open to a new crawl, I just don’t want to change the titles of the movies.

I actually kept the Boss Nass thing due to it being difficult to remove with a good audio edit, but I will take another look at it.

So the scene with Qui-Gon tending to Anakin’s wound was a late addition, I needed a scene like that for pacing reasons as everything was moving a bit too quickly. I also like it because it gives a little bit of character to Anakin, talking about how he wants to be a pilot and see all the planets. What do you think I could do to make the scene fit better?

I actually really do like the chosen one thing, I think it’s more nuanced than people give it credit for, so I’ll be keeping that.

I definitely will do some more passes on the sound mix.

Thanks for the feedback!

Post
#1557210
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

EddieDean said:

The only thing I’d suggest for your consideration is a slight reordering during the final act:

We’re told that the Gungans showing up on the plains is nothing more than a distraction to draw out the droids so that Padme/Qui-Gon etc can infiltrate Theed. We see the Gungans come out, the droids come out to meet them, the opening salvo is fired, and then we cut away to the action in Theed.

But here’s the thing - from then onwards, the plot on the plains, the entire battle, is now completely redundant. It has no jeopardy, because it’s already served its purpose of drawing the droids out of Theed, and whether or not the Gungans win has no impact whatsoever on the battle for Theed palace or the droid control ship. Sure, some Gungans might die, but nobody has any emotional investment in Jar Jar, Boss Nass, or Tarpals, and other than them it’s just faceless CG Gungans versus faceless CG droids.

The only value this sequence has is in showing that the droids are theoretically a threat since they are a functional army that could reasonably threaten Theed, and eventually, the light additional ‘things are going badly’ sense from seeing the Gungans surrendered.

Shifting the Gungan sequence’s conclusion to far earlier during the narrative of the endings would resolve this, and also allow it to serve a further purpose - to emphasise the threat of the droid army and leave it hanging over our main characters, making Anakin’s destruction of the control ship worth a little more.

It’s very achievable too. The closing shot of the first Gungan scene (opening salvo) matches perfectly to the opening shot of the second Gungan scene (closing salvo), and there doesn’t need to be a gap of time here to imply that the salvo went on for a little while - just what we see is plenty, and actually shows that the Gungan shield tech is respectable. The rest of the scenes can be brought forward alongside this change. The only other actual change to this sequence I’d make is that there’s a nice clear shot of droidekas firing off-frame (originally paired with Gungans falling off their horses) with the shot of the shield generator’s exploding (originally with no preceding shot to explain why it explodes).

So from a logic standpoint, I agree with you. But from a pacing/structure standpoint, I don’t personally feel like this would be an improvement. Happy to play around with the idea though!

Post
#1557086
Topic
Spence's PT Edits Round 3 (In Progress) (TPM Released!)
Time

This is the closest thing I have to a cutlist, but there’s a lot of what I call “micro-edits” throughout that won’t be in this list.

Overall:
Did a color correction on the movie to make it look a little more like a 70’s film stock without overdoing it.
Added further film grain to make it feel more in line with 70’s movies/4K77.
Many instances of sound effects and music have been completely reworked, especially the podrace introduction, which had it’s entire soundscape rebuilt for parts of it.

Added disclaimer and “Spence Fanedits” title card
Opening crawl is unchanged.
Removed “as you know, our blockade is perfectly legal”
Removed “what?! What did you say?”
Cut a few seconds of Qui-Gon receiving his tea.
Cut from “kill them immediately” to the ambassador ship being destroyed.
Cut droid dialogue when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are cornered in the meeting room.
Cut “have you ever encountered a Jedi knight, sir?” “well, no”
Cut “this is impossible!”
Cut “they’re no match for droidekas”
Removed some awkward dialogue between Padme and Nute.
Cut from “can mean only one thing, invasion” straight to the army landing.
Cut Jar-Jar’s interaction to make it seem that Qui-Gon is deliberately tackling him to the ground to save him.
Cut “muy muy, I love you!”
Cut “exsqueeze me”
Cut “yousa follow me now, okey day”
Cut Tarpals’ “yousa in big doodoo this time”
Cut the majority of Nass’ ticks except for the last one.
Cut “symbiote circle” line.
Cut the dramatic delivery of “the planet cooooore”
Jar Jar now just says “A little help here would be hot”
Cut Jar Jar’s dialogue after being freed.
Removed the majority of the Bongo sequence, keeping a little bit of the traveling and Jar-Jar explaining he was banished because he’s clumsy,
Cut some Rick Ollie Captain Obvious-isms when they flee the planet.
Cut “now there are two of them” after Maul is introduced (generally most of these cowardly moments that end Trade Federation/Sidious scenes are removed.
Cut Jar Jar stepping in poop.
Cut most of Jar Jar’s antics in Watto’s shop, with the exception of turning off the pit droid.
Cut Jar Jar juggling a bunch of junk as Qui-Gon enters. This was tricky.
Cut Jar Jar being confused which direction to turn as they exit the shop
Cut Anakin’s “yippee”
Cut a few seconds of Jar-Jar getting up after being attacked by Sebulba.
Cut all scenes involving C-3PO from the film.
Kept the Jar-Jar tongue joke, but removed his reaction after Qui-Gon lets him go.
Removed any midichlorian discussion.
Removed Anakin’s crappy friends being crappy to him. Kittster is the only one still hanging out.
Removed the end of Qui-Gon and Watto’s bet, before Watto talks to Anakin. It goes straight from there to the podrace arena.
Lots of cuts throughout the podrace.
Lots of the pilot introductions are cut
The parade is cut
The piece Sebulba breaks off of Anakin’s podracer is no longer visible in the next scene.
Cut the other pod that stalls out.
Cut anything that makes the scene not feel fast and dangerous.
Lots of tiny cuts throughout to spike the pacing.
Cut Obi-Wan saying “pathetic lifeform” he now just says “another lifeform”
Added the deleted scene of Anakin fighting Greedo, but cut where Greedo was called by name.
Cut another Anakin “yippee” in his house.
Moved the scene of the probe droid searching Mos Espa to right after Anakin leaves home, and added the probe droid deleted scene right after it.
Cut Anakin saying he’s “tired”
Removed Jar Jar saying Padme is hot.
Trimmed the beginning of Padme and Palpatine’s meeting on Coruscant.
Trimmed some dialogue from the Jedi council scene for better pacing.
Anakin’s test now begins with Yoda asking him how he feels, removing the silly view screen guessing game at the beginning.
There’s no more dialogue after Padme says “prepare my ship!” For a stronger exit from the scene.
Mention of Maul joining Nute on Tattooine is removed and he is cut from all scenes until the duel. The idea is to let the audience forget about him until he makes a dramatic return.
The scene with Ollie showing Anakin the ship controls is moved to right after they leave Coruscant, and a lightspeed effect is added to the ship windows so it matches the rest of the sequence.
Some more Boss Nass ticks removed during the forest scene.
Removed the scout and Anakin seeing the soldiers coming.
Trimmed the dialogue in the planning scene to keep it moving faster and remove some questionable acting from Padme.
Some sequences in the third act are re-ordered to stay with certain events a bit longer. I also used the famous L8wrtr structure where Anakin saves the day by blowing up the ship, which allows Padme to capture the Viceroy.
Extended a piece of the fighter cockpit to cover Anakin’s face where I cut some dialogue.
Trims to Jar Jar to make him more heroic, in his own clumsy way. Both he and Anakin do not do anything by accident throughout. They are purposefully heroic.
A lot of Anakin’s reactions, like “uh oh” or “this is not good” are removed.
Sped up the grappling hook sequence and had them enter the hallway from the window a bit faster.
Jar Jar no longer accidentally frees all of the big bombs from the carriage, this is something he does on purpose. He just doesn’t think about the fact that they’re going to roll at him too.
Removed sequence where Jar Jar lands on top of a tank and juggles a bomb. He is now immediately captured after the mount he’s on is hit by a canon.
The movie after Maul’s death is more or less unchanged.