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Did you think Lucas regret the way Palpatine died?

In comic books, nobody is ever “really” gone and its just kind of accepted, even expected that an important “dead” character isn’t really dead forever. Anything can happen. It was a clone/robot/twin… time travel. Deus Ex Machina. Some super power we didn’t know about lets him come alive. It was a hallucination. Or maybe there’s a multi-verse and the one you saw was just one of many variations of the character.

Or just flat out he’s back and no explanation is given, it just is.

But in movies that are supposedly part of the same story we demand a little more, and yet… lazy writing.

But yes, Boba Fett, Darth Maul, Palpatine, they all died in those movies and were meant to be dead. But other people wanted them to come back or the original creators changed their minds, and so boom, they are back, dead again, etc.

I highly doubt Lucas “regretted it.” He only would regret any money he might have lost, but that’s not even an issue to me. If people love a character and didn’t want him to die, then killing the character reveals that, and the “come back” can generate even more hype and make even more money, right? Killing off the character multiple times can “cheapen” the comeback however. The stakes are lowered if we just assume that any character is probably going to come back sooner or later, by some convenience or ridiculous re-write.

At least in the old matinee serials they would show “last time on…” footage showing how the good guy escaped or substituted the dummy or put on the bullet proof vest at the last second (even though this footage wasn’t show in the previous episode, we clearly saw the thing they were in blow up).

Yes, it’s harder to duplicate that within a movie itself (infamously done in Rise of Skywalker with Chewbacca or the various slo mo “death fake outs” used in the LOTR trilogy).

Disney Plus should release all of the theatrical versions of the Star Wars movies on their service

I will never support Disney+ with my money, however I would consider purchasing the unaltered OT set on high definition physical media (even if I had to track down a used copy, because I have a grudge against that company for many reasons). Probably a pipe dream at this point…

I’m not AS big a purist on the prequels to care about those, but I would certainly support the preservation of the theatrical presentation of them too for those who want them (which are many people). Despite our love of fan edits, I’m sure there are plenty of fans out there (with cash in pocket) who are just weary of all the tinkering. We just want a high quality visual and audio presentation of the films we saw (yes, I said films, because Episode I was shot on film and although Episode II and III were shot on digital video, they were shown in most theaters around the world on celluloid since most theaters didn’t yet have an affordable option for digital).

And yes, yes, I know there is more than one “theatrical” presentation of each film, technically, but those small changes (like altered soundtrack, or one screen transition) can easily be incorporated into a physical disc via branching or alternate soundtracks vs. having to be a whole separate release that costs millions of dollars in additional investment to create.

Return of the Jedi in theaters... until today?

I totally missed this. The total lack of fanfare for 2020’s theatrical re-release of Empire Strikes Back barely gave me enough time to see it in theaters (“see” through a mask, but it was still a good time and I could pretend it wasn’t the special edition).

I presume, for anyone who has seen it, that this is from the “Macklunky” trilogy set streamed on Disney Plus (Nov 2019) with the few minor changes since the 2011 blu-rays (the same cut that exists on the Disney 4k discs released in 2020). Can anyone confirm?

Since this has always been my favorite Star Wars movie, I was more offended by the excesses of the changes than the others (the one bright spot being the more lifelike looking Rancor blending with the scene) but that’s a personal thing and a bias that nobody can talk me out of, sorry.

So anyway if you get a chance, let me know what I missed! Like the other Special Editions we’ve discussed over the years, yes, those things can annoy and want one to turn to a fan edit instead (if not the original) but most of the film is still watchable and enjoyable despite the alterations.

Audio Description/Descriptive Audio Star Wars...

Yeah if memory serves there were four of them that I once had… I think one was British for the first movie and then there were more American sounding versions of the classic trilogy. I’d heard talk of some of the prequels having them but never got my hands on them. I tried in vain for years to find again what I thought was the Audio Described VHS that I once saw at a library. I guess they have disappeared from circulation permanently. Either they were discarded or snatched up by collectors? Hopefully someone got some use out of them.

I really enjoyed the Descriptive audio of the new dune movie, and I have appreciation that those things exist on Blu-Rays almost as a rule now, at least for big movies. But there’s something about hearing ones made in the past that really interests me even though I can see the movie picture just fine.

I guess fans could make their own descriptive audio tracks… that would be cool to see (I mean “hear”).

Audio Description/Descriptive Audio Star Wars...

That’s right, I can’t find the search function on the forums anymore… what has happened?

I am looking for the old preservations of the classic trilogy (“Faces”) descriptive audio for the visually impaired.

Can anyone help? I know that the Blu-Rays have their own DA tracks but it’s a totally different track and geared towards the 2011 special editions.

Thanks for any help! I’m logged in and can’t search the forums… weird.


The idea of Boba Fett surviving the battle of carkoon is another of those instances where I think George Lucas infamously changed his mind publicly and tried to pretend he “always intended” it to be otherwise. I just don’t believe him, that alongside Han Solo shooting after Greedo misses him at point blank range for no reason… and also the idea that Anakin’s body disappears off of the funeral pyre at the end of Return of the Jedi leaving the “hollow armor behind.” I’m with the Michael Kaminski general impression that while we can’t know what was in GL’s head all those years ago (only he can answer that question, if he remembers), but we can only go by what evidence shows and common sense dictates is most likely.

It’s interesting to imagine what the movies would have been like if Luke and Leia were married, or everyone was a little person or Chewbacca looked more like Greedo, but those weren’t the films that were released, that mesmerized the world and launched this fandom.

He changed his mind, which is fine, but the movie is already made, and pretending what we’re seeing with our own eyes all those years didn’t happen is just annoying. I’m not against remakes, just dishonest revisionism by filmmakers.

I also wouldn’t buy for a second the excuse of “they wouldn’t let me do it/the technology didn’t exist back then” either.

People still like Boba Fett after all this time, despite much disappointment with the usage of the character outside the movies that was obviously done in order to cash in on that curiosity. Good luck! (and welcome back to Adywan)

I’ve always been interested in the idea of someone doing a “better” Special Edition than we got with errors corrected and poor choices removed or smoothed over, and that’s why I’ve followed these projects even though I’ve long since joined that part of the fandom that prefers just a cleaned up, visually and audibly optimized accurate as possible presentation of the original theatrical presentations of the classic films.

Now if he decides that the movies need to blend better with changes introduced in The Mandalorian and its spinoffs (Book of Boba Fett, and the new Obi-Wan series), see my comments on using Rogue One to revise the movies. I dislike that, but it’s not my project, though if my vote counts I say “no.” Using footage to try to supplement something (a nice shot of an X-Wing that you needed as opposed to taking some new creation and shoe-horning it into the old movie) is another thing entirely, in my view. I freely admit my opinion is “out of touch” with a seemingly rising number of fans who prefer these tv shows to the movies, or see the classic films as antiquated or even embarrassing compared to later installments but I’m happy to disagree with them.

Now that Dave Prowse (R.I.P) has passed away, if that footage of him in his elder years having the Vader mask removed from his face on camera was ever released, it would be neat to see THAT inserted into the movie, but at the same time I’d still cling to the version I grew up watching, from 1983 without the change, just as it lacked the Hayden cameo in ghostly form after.


As long as he doesn’t appear as a force ghost at the end.
“I’m just a simple man trying to make my way in the afterlife”

(hey at least it explains Hayden’s smirk a little better)

I so wish we could snag that footage that was shot of the late Dave Prowse being de-masked for this.

The “boba fett alive” thing was cool but his armor is too clean and neat looking (should look terrible if he just escaped) and no dropping bombs from the slave I on there as he leaves? Remember this is Boba Fett, not “mando” or whatever his name was in that tv series. Plus they’re using prequel music.

I like to think Fett definitely died and the guy running around as him in the EU was some other dude using salvaged or spare armor (something they even touched on in the show).

Deepfake Tarkin &amp; Leia swap (Rogue One) (up on the Shamook youtube channel)

Sirius said:

VulgarisMagistralis said:

So, I’ve made an edition of the deepfake Tarkin & Leia on Rogue One, if anyone is interested. I used a Blu-ray source on 1080p (which is the max resolution of the fakes) and 5.1 sound. It looks great on my computer, but I didn’t test in on a telly yet, to be honest, and mine isn’t very large either.

I plan on adding the John Williams music as well, but… when I checked the sound channels I noticed a lot of the music spilled into the dialogue channel, and I am not very skilled with sound edition. Any help is appreciated.

I’m planning to publish my edit to fanedit.org, but I need to add credit where credit is due first, and they have a policy over there that one must be a member of their forums for 30 days and all that jazz.

Hi, can you please PM me a link?

I too am interested.

Can't be Bothered: justifying Rey's power vs Luke's

We don’t know because its never shown, but Luke flies a Skyhopper, some kind of stunt-ship and “bulls-eyes womprats… no bigger than two meters.” In the later lore its explained this is some kind of suborbital craft and his flying around beggar’s canyon is pretty impressive, much more than “pod-racing” that’s for sure. Blowing up targets that don’t shoot back is probably the extent of his training. He grabs a rifle pretty fast when going to look at Tusken raiders, but gets ambushed before he attempts to get a shot off.

Luke was interested in joining the academy. For all we know he might have used simulators or taken lessons with Biggs, but that’s speculative. Episode I dilutes that in our minds by saying “not such a bad pilot” could refer to anything, including flying a glorified hovercraft soap box derby on the surface (albeit a really dangerous one).

In the novels (released before the movies, and based upon early script drafts), Luke gets more training than we see onscreen, but not much more. Years pass between episodes, which is not the case with the sequel trilogy.

Sure, Rey could learn about ships (she certainly has an interest, with her daydreams) by salvaging parts, but it seems even more of a stretch that she’s so good, than Luke. So whatever one says about the plausibility of Luke or Anakin, it goes double or triple for Rey.

In the end, the movies leave us with the distinct impression that Rey’s abilities are magical, from her learning to knowledge, even to her skill, not just force potential.

Had we always “known” that proficiency was passed on simply by touching objects or being related to someone, it would be a lot easier for fans to swallow, regardless of the comparative qualities of the movies they appear in.

By the time of Rise of Skywalker, it appears that video game/RPG rules are in place. Once you reach this particular character level, you unlock X and Y powers. Get stronger and you just know them, because you have enough experience points. In universe I guess the Force “wants” you to have this power or “knows” you need it and so you suddenly have it. Yet we see Rey getting new powers but not Kylo (I guess you could say he “learns” force heal after Rey dies after she “healed” him… I guess giving him her powers at that point, but they’re a dyad so maybe they always had the power in them, they just had to believe in themselves).

Was Anakin “good with machines” because of the Force, or was he just a prodigy, or was it just taught to him in his life as a slave?

In Force Awakens, Rey gets her powers boosted by Luke’s lightsaber (which calls to her and touching it gives her memories and even skill). Touching Kylo Ren’s mind gives her access to all of his powers, apparently. Maybe she gets knowledge of how to use the Falcon (never implied in the movie but I’m running with it) by touching it.

It’s not just Rey and Finn who are OP, look at Poe Dameron. Or the Emperor in Rise of Skywalker. So its an overall issue, not just the one character. Kylo Ren goes back and forth between being embarrassingly bad to OP. I guess something about the “force dyad” struggling for control between them? Rey gets stronger as he gets weaker and so on? The Sequel Trilogy seems to be doing its own thing (much like the Prequels did their own thing). It’s just the passage of time and different creative minds behind it (while mimicking the style of the earlier films) that makes it jarring to so many, even leaving aside whether you liked the movies themselves.

IF you start from the standpoint that all Star Wars is “canon” and “has to fit together” then I guess you’ll always accept it and reinterpret the old stuff in light of the new. So maybe Luke touching the lightsaber in Ben’s hut gave him Anakin’s skill too, and maybe getting into an X-Wing gave him the skills of the previous pilot who used it (Anakin’s pod was rebuilt from used parts, according to the novelization). See? And if you have a problem just say “a wizard did it” I mean “It was the Will of the Force.” 😉

Not saying I agree with it, just that’s how you could do it. I am of the mind that Disney Star Wars just isn’t canon. It’s like infinites for me.

Whatever flaws or conveniences were true of the Originals and got worse in the Prequels have reached an even greater height in the new stuff, and that’s no surprise because the new ones are consciously trying to copy (rather than expand or improve) upon the earlier ones, with, if you ask cynical, jaded (but I reject terms like “toxic” or “hater”) fans like me, rather mixed results.

Idea &amp; Info Wanted: Star Trek VI: The Roddenberry cut?

Interesting stuff, and I’ve also read that Season 1 of TNG is the “most Roddenberry” of all of TNG. He had died by the time of the fifth season (which is dedicated to him) but its also been said that his influence over the writing of the series had ended by the end of the third season. So Season 1 was his, season 2 a little less so and by season 3 others were doing it (using his foundation of course).

I could agree that the Picard we see in the TNG movies appears to be going through a mid-life crisis (some changes in his character one could attribute to his assimilation by the Borg, an idea I’m not sure G-Rod had anything to do with) and a lot of things changed… turning the cerebral character drama focused on diplomacy and ethical debates about science turned basically into a series of action flicks, remakes of old stories, and time travel shenanigans.

The crew saving JFK sounds silly, but would have been interesting to see. Let me guess, they’re going to say that in the real timeline Kennedy always survived? Because otherwise that would seem to go against everything they ever said or did about Time Travel… which is they don’t change things, only learn from it, or fix changes made by others (even though TNG eventually establishes that “many worlds” hypothesis as canon).

Too bad though. So I guess delete “guess who’s coming to dinner” “I’ve always hated Kligons…” “the smell / only the advanced models can talk” and the already cut “would you let your daughter marry one?” lines. But making Starfleet less military would require a lot of work, basically a reshoot. In-universe it makes a bit of sense that Starfleet starts out more like explorers, a kind of scientific merchant marine with defensive weapons or golden age of the United Nations–following the then future history of the Eugenics Wars/WWIII and united earth peace, but is forced to militarize because of the Romulans and Klingon aggression in the Kirk era, and then again in the Picard era (after a period of relative peace and stability) because of the Borg (Dominion in DS9).

Popularity of the Original Trilogy enhanced by Prequels?

I think if a person watched the Prequels and hated them, I would say “who knows, there is something better in the Star Wars universe you might enjoy” and encourage them to give the OT a chance. If they loved them, I’d say, go see the originals, but keep in mind these were made a decade earlier and don’t match up perfectly.

Many fans (myself included at one time) put Star Wars (and to an extent, George Lucas) up on a pedestal. This means we hold it to an unrealistically high standard OR we treat it in a cultish manner that prevents us from seeing anything wrong with it, and make us defensive towards those who don’t share our zeal or obsession. I don’t hate the Prequels, it’s really just that I was disappointed with Episode I. It was a bit of an overload back then too… too much hype, and I backed off a bit from the franchise then, retreating into the stuff I liked. Something similar happened with Disney star wars, but by then I wasn’t as invested to begin with so it wasn’t so shocking. I became jaded, cynical, and this is probably boring you, so you should skip to the next post. OR, continue on… I warned you. 😉

For some people, they gave up on Star Wars because of the prequels. Others went back to the OT. A few people grew up with the Prequels and didn’t ever care to get invested in the originals. It never fails that when a new installment of something this popular comes out, it will cause “divisions” in the “fandom” (it’s talked about as if it’s a nation, religion or family, when the only thing that unites “Star Wars fans” is some generic love of a brand).

I recall when Force Awakens came out, the #1 argument from those who overwhelmingly supported it was “at least it wasn’t the prequels” or “star wars is back” or something similar. That opinion soured for a lot of folks with the disappointment of the next two movies, but for a time it seems like dislike of the prequels was on full display.

I don’t begrudge fans their opinion. Yes, at one time (in the 90’s) I was “shocked” to learn that my favorite piece of Star Wars, ROTJ, was regarded by many as the “worst” thing in the franchise (other than the Holiday Special, I guess). All of the people I knew, I guess were fans my own age, so they all disagreed, but everything I read was that ESB was the best, and ROTJ was the worst. Oh well. I don’t begrudge those people their opinion. I remember spending time on forums where if you hated the Prequels, you were considered “not a true fan” and even a “bad person,” some kind of bandwagon “hater” or “snob” who didn’t “get it.” People would defend the prequels by pointing out flaws in the OT, and say it was still George Lucas’ vision so take it or leave it. It was a weird time. I had problems with the prequels, mainly episode I, but I didn’t hate them. Then again I did hate the last jedi and while I see just how goofy Rise of skywalker was, and didn’t consider force awakens anything special, I didn’t hate solo (I just didn’t bother to think of it as “canon” in any way shape or form) and while Rogue One was fine, it came across as a really desperate attempt at fanservice. I only bring that up because I feel like a lot of the same arguments and feelings got brought up with that trilogy/series run as what happened with the prequels. I don’t think it’s fair to just say new stuff always will cause a conflict between fans who like the new stuff better than the old, or because people hate change or others feel obligated to like everything to be considered a true fan. Tastes are different. I didn’t hate the Mandalorian or Rogue One or Solo (even though it wasn’t anything really special) so I’ll defend myself against those who would say I hate stuff just because it’s new or different from what I previously accepted. I didn’t start liking the prequels recently, I always did, but I agreed with those who heavily criticized them (again, especially Episode I). If you disagree with me, I don’t judge you a lesser fan, by no means. If you’re the type of person who wants to nitpick, who is going to be disappointed if the episodes don’t all gel together perfectly, I would not want to set you up for failure though.

And someone is going to read this now and say I’m a hater, I’m a cynical jaded fan who hates everything, who has standards that are too high, who has nostalgia goggles on, who can’t tolerate people enjoying themselves. Bollocks I say. Far from it, I’m perfectly willing to admit other people have different tastes and that’s not better or worse, just different. I thought the Mandalorian was fine. It wasn’t bad. Not revelatory, and I can nitpick it if I want to, but to me Episode II and III were fine.

Does the Prequel Trilogy enhance the original star wars? If you mean does it make you want to go see the originals again… sure, I guess they do that. They are based around stuff that is said in the background of the classic trilogy. Basically all the snippets that Obi-Wan and Yoda say about the past, are what we see on screen. The trouble is that back then it was mysterious, so we used our imaginations and what we got may not have measured up. And the other thing is that historically speaking, the Prequels were mainly a new creation of the late 90’s and early 2000’s, they weren’t what George Lucas “always intended” (and that’s fine, I have long ago rejected the hype that he had a perfect 12 part saga all planned out in his head… the man clearly is just a mortal filmmaker who had some cool ideas and collaborated to create some really awesome stuff, even if it’s not godly perfection).

I try NOT to hold the Prequels in my mind when I’m watching the OT. If I do, I end up nitpicking stuff and it becomes less enjoyable and more laughable. “Obi-wan, you lying drunk!” “Chewbacca, you jerk!” etc. No, I just ignore the Prequels except when I’m watching the prequels or some material based upon them (like the Mandalorian). But I can’t avoid thinking about the OT when watching the Prequels, to a certain degree, so it’s tough.

As a fan of another franchise, Highlander, which has massive continuity issues from one installment to the next, I have learned to check a lot of that nitpicky-ness at the door and just trying to enjoy it for what it is. I don’t do major movie marathons and have a clipboard in front of me. It’s fun to do the nitpicky thing, but I got most of that out of my system when the movies were still in theaters. Again, I don’t begrudge someone who wants to do that.

For sheer entertainment value, I consider Episode II up there next to Empire Strikes Back. It may be because I didn’t see ESB in theaters originally… I wasn’t a teenager when it came out and it wasn’t my favorite growing up. I appreciate it now more than I ever did, but I genuinely enjoyed myself seeing Episode II (far more than Episode I), and I acknowledge that as far as a lot of fans are concerned, it is the worst of the prequels! And for me Episode III was really the only one that “needed” to be made, and yes it could have been better, but it was pretty good. I watched it TOO much in 2005-2006, so the point where I hadn’t seen it for years (Until recently when I did a week long marathon of the Lucas movies, after seeing Rise of Skywalker).

Again I think if all a person knew was the Prequel Trilogy, I would recommend they give the OT a try, because I think overall its better, and better or worse, it was what started it all, but I think they hold up today, regardless of technological advances or cultural changes.

I love that fan editing exists, everybody has a different idea of how to improve these movies. I appreciate that effort, and I also appreciate the films for what they are, warts and all. To a degree I like laughing at bad movies too, but despite some of the inherent hokiness (sp?) of Star Wars in general (I love Star Wars, again, don’t get me wrong), I expect it to be good, and so it’s jarring when it doesn’t live up to the standard I set for it. Still, the Prequels really weren’t bad, even if a lot of the CGI looks dated now. And as time goes on, do worse movies soften my attitude to previous installments? There is probably some truth to that as well.

In Defense of the Ewoks

I can see why many viewers hated the ewoks. They were cute, they were slapstick, and they were transparently there to sell merch.

But let’s face it, that has been part of Star Wars from the beginning… what do you think those Jawas were doing? Or Yoda? Or the ughnaughts on cloud city playing keep away with Chewbacca? Even beepy R2D2 is meant to appeal to that “oh cute I want that toy” mentality. There have always been “little, sorta cute” characters in Star Wars, and all of it is designed to sell merch, not just these guys. They’re just the most overtly marketed to kids. Whether you’re selling a model X-Wing, a “replica” lightsaber, or a fluffy ewok doll, it’s the same thing.

So some of the “hate” for the Ewoks is hypocritical, but at the same time, you can look at it like the Jar Jar effect. In Episode I, Jar Jar Binks is a walking joke. He’s a slapstick cartoon character like Roger Rabbit and most of the people around some just kind of take it in stride. In ROTJ, Wicket, who is portrayed as kind of a “kid” Ewok (even though they’re all small) is the slapstick one. Just as not all of the Gungans were like Jar Jar (even if Boss Nass made goofy spit noises for some reason), not all the Ewoks were wicket, knocking himself out with rocks. Consider the Mandalorian. From the way some people tell it, half the success of that show is due to adult female viewers fawning over the cuteness of “baby Yoda” (and the other half seems to be “had nothing to do with the disney sequel trilogy.”)

Humor has always been a part of Star Wars, but people tend to forget. Some of it may be because if you started out watching Star Wars as a kid, say, age 6-7, you were 12 or 13 by the time of ROTJ. Maybe you felt silly watching muppets and fuzzy characters dancing around. I remember not wanting to watch “Sesame Street” at that age because it felt babyish, and so that may be a factor. Today there are adult female viewers who will be like “aww, those cute porgs!” so maybe there are different views. I can see not liking them because they seem like a babyish product placement more than a cool plot device.

To me I can see why people hate the Ewoks, and they can be legit. The Imperial forces have been steadily diminished in threat, to the point where they are like the Nazis in Hogan’s Heroes more than the Nazis of the actual war. The less of a threat, the lower the stakes for our heroes. Some have analyzed the battle footage of Endor closely and chalked it up mostly to Imperial incompetence. They’ve come up with elaborate excuses for why it’s realistic or not that crazy for the Ewoks to do well in the battle. The ewoks took massive casualties. They may have been fighting the “best troops” but the Emperor was overconfident… he was distracted with the Skywalker drama and not “battle meditating” his forces… and by this point in the war, his “best troops” of those that were left weren’t all that great… most of the troops were on the other side of the forest moon (they came in the back door remember), the Ewoks were fighting for their “golden god” and the Imperials were unprepared, they were just thinking they were going to arrest the group of rebels and that was that, etc. And all those traps they had built to stop the Walkers, well those were needed as explained in the Ewok Adventure specials (which came out AFTER ROTJ) that they had giant monsters roaming around Endor so those were pre-existing technology for survival. Great stuff. A casual viewer will be like “whoa, these guys suck… beaten by teddy bears, let me guess it was the will of the force right? Suuure.”

The idea of it being Wookiees beating the Empire, or acknowledging that in real life superior forces have lost due to incompetence and bad luck, doesn’t change the fact that some stone age teddy bears did beat the Empire, at least with the help of a handful of main characters (with ever-present character shields). Sure, it’s impressive that they beat the Empire, but MAYBE by this point, just about anybody could… (not even getting into the typical EU narrative, which is that it took another 30 years for them to beat the Empire for real, oops just kidding and then the “first order” took over where they left off).

I didn’t hate the Ewoks as much as some people did, maybe because I was a kid when ROTJ came out, and I didn’t hang out with superfans (until high school), and for me that was just the norm of Star Wars. I didn’t play pretend to be the Ewoks. I wanted to be Luke Skywalker, or Lando, or Darth Vader. I didn’t find C3PO annoying (but I didn’t really watch Empire Strikes Back as much as the others, and within a few years I found Yoda annoying, though much later I found him funny). Our tastes change as we mature. I think its clear what the Ewoks were there for, and they’re not perfect, but they’re just as much a part of the original franchise now as Jawas or Yoda. I think as a kid I didn’t notice anything amiss. Later on I disliked Wickit, but now I see him as just a “junior ewok” and not really that big a deal. If this were being made today and I were somehow an advisor for the filmmakers I might advise against making them that transparently a toy ad for little kids, but then again if it was really going to be that profitable, how could they say no?

And really, you can say the Ewoks were terrible and then say “but compared to what was to come later… they weren’t that bad!” The creature design is certainly more interesting than just having a bunch of people with their skin painted in primary colors with a handful of latex slapped on their foreheads. For a much more kidified version of an Ewok battle, check out “Battle for Endor” Ewok adventure special (it’s the right thing to do).

How big was Star Wars in the 70s 80s and 90s

I’m sure it varies by country and by region, state, age group, etc. For me, for a time, Star Wars was something magical, something that was familiar, comfortable, that was appealing and hard to refuse. Now it seems more like a relic of the past, a cool piece of history wrapped up in nostalgia. My views may be just my own, but I can articulate my perception.

I was a baby in the 70’s. In the 80’s, Star Wars was a blockbuster franchise (I was 5 when ROTJ came out), and if you were a kid, it was all about the toys and make-believe. It was awesome. By 1985, I remember seeing the toys in the stores and walking right by, without the interest I once had. Yes, ROTJ was back in theaters that year, but we didn’t go see it (if I had my way, we would have, but we taped it off TV the first chance we got). So I think Star Wars wasn’t that big for me or other kids I knew by the late 80’s. By high school I discovered the Zahn books existed, and a couple of friends (who were nerdy super fans) got me interested in it again. The general view seemed to be that these were some old cheesy movies made for kids… until the special editions came out, then people caught the nostalgia bug. “I remember these movies when I was a kid!” teenagers were saying. Everybody acknowledges that Star Wars was a popular franchise in its time, regardless of whether they personally cared for it. It has had more lasting power in peoples imaginations than say, Indiana Jones, or American Graffiti (or even E.T.), and it has almost had the dedicated following of Star Trek (I feel like Trek fans have had to put up with mixed quality product for a lot longer, forcing them to weather a lot of storms and struggle as fans perceived as defending a shoddy franchise). I should pause there, because Trek has always been seen as a cult thing (since the original series was cancelled after only three seasons and stayed alive only on fan goodwill for some time). Star Wars kind of blows everything up, and then goes away, repeat.
I credit this popularity with the movies. I doubt many people became Star Wars fans because of a novel or a comic book, those things cater to people who already are into the franchise.

That hype ramped up to the release of Episode I and then I remember a lot of people kind of losing interest, thinking it kind of sucked, and collecting wasn’t what it used to be, etc. My superfan friends and I kept up with it, but the rest of the public seems to have lost interest once a movie left theaters. I stayed a fan through the video games (much less the EU of the 2000s, I had lost interest in most of the EU by the late 90s). Then it seemed like people got interested again with the Force Awakens, and while the hype continued through the Disney movies, I soured a lot on Star Wars in general. I had been losing interest in the EU by the late 90s and while I was hoping for it to reset, I didn’t quite like what we got.

This negative attitude of mine can be exaggerated, I really don’t hate Star Wars, I just don’t have the superfan (fanboy) attitude that some of my friends had, where they would find the good in every product, any excuse to justify buying it and pretending to like it. I wasn’t ashamed to be a fan, but I wanted to clarify to people that I didn’t like “all of it.” The sad part is the poor quality (IMHO) of some of the Star Wars product turned me off from the franchise for awhile. I had to cleanse my pallet by watching the despecialized editions again. I am far more interested in going back to some of the early EU and the old games, than checking out the latest thing that says “Star Wars” on it.

As for the people I know, they seem to be mostly casual fans “Oh I remember that was fun when I was a kid” who are curious and will check out a new movie, but generally won’t stick around for a trilogy unless they are dragged to it. Contradictions in the lore don’t bother them because they don’t pay that close attention or don’t really remember it very well. The superfans I know have been tested, most of them are still fans, but they have a harder time defending the new stuff. I can’t speak for everyone. I know that there are forums that are packed with people, there are conventions full of people (well there were, before the pandemic). To me, in my life, Star Wars seems to have been a fad that comes and goes. That doesn’t diminish the importance to film, or the merchandising empire it built, or my personal love of it.

Star Wars is part of the culture, but that doesn’t mean everybody has seen the movies and likes them. But they know what you are referencing when you use a catch phrase, just like if you pulled something from Star Trek or WWF, across multiple generations.

I never stopped liking Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi, or the Jedi Knight video games. I just no longer feel obligated to “stick up for” heavily criticized new episodes. I thought the Mandalorian was okay. I still haven’t finished the second season of Clone Wars since it began. I’ve never seen rebels. I get more excited about fan edits than about new official releases. Still, if one day we got the original 1977 Star Wars (Or the original Empire or Jedi) on blu-ray in decent quality, I’d buy it, for more than a dollar. MTFBWY

Harmy's STAR WARS Despecialized Edition HD - V2.7 - MKV (Released)

DylanValenti said:

Honestly I don’t even care if we get an official release anymore. These projects almost mean more than that anyways. And I honestly think things like 4K77 and 83 (and despecialized ofc) look better than the official 4K Blu-Ray releases lol.

I’m with you on that. This trilogy of Despecialized HD editions were like the holy grail I was waiting for as a classic fan. Still, if Lucasfilm (or whomever, at some future point) were to release essentially the same thing, officially, on physical media, I would do them the honor of a new purchase. Until then, I’m satisfied with this. MTFBWY

Idea &amp; Info Wanted: Star Trek VI: The Roddenberry cut?

This would seem to be something that fits here… I have read that Rene Roddenberry (who unfortunately died a few days after screening the film) disliked many parts of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, and that he sent an extensive “list of cuts” to the filmmakers, who rejected his ideas (Roddenberry’s creative control over the property had diminished over the years, to the point of him being little more than an advisor). From what I gather, it mainly had to do with the harsher anti-Klingon sentiments expressed by starfleet characters in the movie, but that would still only account for a couple of scenes at most.

While I actually like this movie (GR may have invented Star Trek but like the creator of a certain other franchise, all of his ideas weren’t golden and he benefited from editors and collaboration), and prefer an extended cut than an abbreviated one, I wonder if a list of these “cuts” exist, to the point where a fan editor could craft an edition of the film that would have been more “in line” with his vision for it?

Any info is appreciated…


Even though Life Day seems to be a reference to Christmas (with the wrapped gifts and a metaphorical “tree of life”), it aired around Thanksgiving, so maybe that is really “life day.”

Ah the ever changing “Star wars canon.” If adywan isn’t incorporating Rogue One into his edits, is he going to incorporate The Mandalorian?

I don’t care either way, just curious…

Rumor: David Prowse Snubbed in Star Wars Credits?

Very helpful. I hadn’t realized that James Earl Jones is credited as the voice of Darth Vader (at least as of '97) in ANH and ROTJ but NOT in ESB! (referencing my 2011 Blu-Rays). Nobody is credited as the voice of Boba Fett in ESB either. I normally stop paying attention to the credits themselves and just listen to the music, it turns out…

Again, glad to know that the rumor I heard, was absolutely false.