Holdo says “godspeed,” I believe. Who the Hell is God?
This movie is beyond dead to me now.
“Then I’ll see you in Hell”
Is ESB also beyond dead to you?
Yeah, but I feel like it was all leading up to Luke just going full Jedi. I don’t know, the fact that he took care of the Rancor, the first real threat, without using the force, added to the sail barge scene.
I agree it would be good to see Luke fighting more like a Jedi and not just swinging a bat. I suspect that whole scene is going to be re-edited - the current edit is just terrible. It was only fairly recently I discovered that Chewie gets shot among all that mess, bringing the ROTJ shot hero count to four.
I personally really like the reveal of Luke’s lightsaber and Jedi-ness in the sail barge scene, so I’m against Luke using the force vs the Rancor and I’m against the use of the deleted scene with hooded Luke+lightsaber.
In another topic: Ady, would you consider using the harmonica solo from the SE in Jabba’s Palace instead of Lapti Nek or Jedi Rocks? I know you said you wouldn’t use anything the SE added to that scene, but I don’t know if you ever thought about this. If so, sorry.
I like that reveal too, although it’s more of a lightsaber reveal than a Force one - he’s already Force Choked a couple of guards, Mind Tricked a majordomo and Force Pulled a gun by that point.
I said a while ago that the Blu_ray/ DVD versions won’t be available until mid next year at the earliest
Thanks, I obviously completely missed that!
I’m guessing we’re not going to see ESB:R other than the MKV released before Christmas. Does anyone know if Ady has abandoned altogether the other five versions with corrections, or were they released and I missed them entirely? His last updates have only mentioned ANH:R HD and ROTJ:R.
I really like the idea of having Vader say, “Your mother once thought as you do.” This change makes sense, and not coming from a PT standpoint either. It’ll help his character be more dynamic; Vader would originally bring up Obi-Wan too often (“Obi-Wan has taught you well”, “Obi-Wan this”, “Obi-Wan that”), so for the audience to see that he actually remembers someone else in his past life makes him even more compelling. Hopefully it can be done 😃
^^ This.
If they wanted to show off that background, why didn’t they turn the lights on?
Looks like there should be a “Closed” sign in the window.
Low lighting hides small or cheap-looking sets. Lucas used the same technique in ANH to make the hangar on Yavin 4 look bigger.
Chewie’s Tarzan yell has got to go.
Yes!
Well, that killed the conversation pretty well.
So, any thoughts on sounds that need fixing in ROTJ? Someone’s already mentioned Artoo’s beeps sounding very different from the other films.
I nominate the plank on the skiff that Luke springs from. It sounds like a cartoon effect rather than a heavy board (Ben Burtt confessed in the commentary he did it by flicking a ruler on the end of a table).
Any other bad effects stood out for anyone?
no where in there do I see or feel anything about growing past the need for his lightsaber and I can’t make any sense of that in context to the scene. It’s not like he thinks upon defeating Vader that he’s ascended to a higher level and could fight the Emp without his saber
He realizes that fighting isn’t the way. If it costs him his life, so be it, but he’s trusting the Force now and not himself. That’s the “leveling up”.
Like many elements of ROTJ, it’s murky and not perfect and not everyone will agree, but that’s my take:
He either tosses it because he’s just ‘moved past it’ so to speak, or he’s just being stupid. 😉
He’s being offered a position as right hand man to the evil ruler of the galaxy. By his gesture he’s saying, “You DON’T have my sword. Kill me if you like, but I will not stand by your side”.
I would not be opposed to seeing the deleted scenes restored and put into the missing places in the film.
For all the great counterpoints to why they should remain cut, I have to agree.
Ironically, I DO wish to see at least one shot of the Falcon turret gun operators added in during the battle. One could argue they are the least necessary of the deleted scenes, but I feel it lets us see the inside of the turrets again, and shows another rebel playing his part in the fight, and reminds us that the Falcon takes a team effort to be useful in a fight.
Now that’s something I would like to see a bit of, even if it’s just exterior shots of the turrets firing. I’d especially like to see them doing their bit when attacking the main reactor.
In contrast to ANH and TESB the deleted scenes from ROTJ has many potential to be reediting into the movie. I agree with you. Especially:
- Luke building this light saber
- Bunker rush (nice action, see the link)
- Emperor is commanding to destory the moon (more dramatic, more evil)
The difficult is to restore these blu ray material that it is matching to the rest of the movies (color, sound, scratches, effects). I think this is a lot of work. But when Adywan can handle this, this would be an amazin change.
I hope Adywan will try 😃
I’m not savvy on seeing Luke build his lightsaber. It takes away from the dramatic moment we all felt in 1983 when R2 launched it to him on the skiff. THAT was a terrific reveal. We do not need to see it to serve the storyline that Luke built a new one.
^^ This.
Also having Palpatine order Jerjerrod to destroy the Endor moon takes away from the Emperor’s own Achille’s heel that Luke himself states; his overconfidence in his own ‘legion of my best troops’. There would be no need for a failsafe should the rebels disable the shield generator, which Emp himself gave the Rebellion the coordinates of.
^^ Also this.
Cutting back and forth between Jerjerrod’s dilemma of wiping out the moon diminishes Luke’s tension with Vader. Truly Emp’s overconfidence WAS his weakness, and I think expanding the ground battle to showcase the overwhelming odds the rebels faced is good enough tension without sacrificing the main point of the storyline to yet another plot point that only serves to add another level of tension where it is not needed.
^^ Again, also this. Those scenes were cut for a reason. One thing Return Of The Jedi doesn’t need is more clutter.
When Vader’s shuttle is landing in the second DS there is a scaffolding struture on the left side of it, but then in the next close up shot of the shuttle it’s no longer there.
Weird. The base of it is still there, but it fades away at the point where the wall becomes vertical. A different matte painting perhaps?
Speaking of, isn’t there meant to be a Blu-Ray version coming out at some stage, with a few errors corrected?
It’s a magical Jedi crunchy frog! He Force teleports out of Jabba’s stomach each time he’s eaten. 😛
I assume that some slave, possibly a Jawa on stilts, has the job of keeping Jabba’s crunchy-frog bowl topped up at all times from a supply cupboard/pond out the back.
Actually because of the way that scene is edited, as a kid I thought that Oola had somehow been shrunk by some machine beneath the trap door and transported to that bowl, and Jabba was then eating her. But that’s a discussion for the “childhood misconceptions” thread.
JEDIT: Corrected spelling of “Oola”.
One real suggestion - remove Ackbar’s first line ‘You can see here the Death Star orbiting the forest moon of Endor’. It’s technically incorrect, since the Death Star must remain above the shield generator. Also, he repeats the info about the forest moon later, so nothing is lost.
It’s still in orbit, it’s just in a geosynchronous orbit.
A geostationary orbit to be precise 😛
Can we not use this thread to bitch about the new movies, please?
Does that apply to the Prequels as well, or are they still fair game?
My suggestion: make the Emperor’s shuttle unique, paint it red, or black, with the Imperial logo on the side or something.
What the f*ck? Why?
Because the grey stripe it has doesn’t differentiate it enough from the 3 other identical shuttles also in the film? It’s not a bad suggestion.
That is so illogical. So what you suggest, is that the Emperor - leader of the Empire; the biggest threat for the Rebel Alliance and all other of millions who hate and plot behind his fierce back, travel around in a ship that signifies “I am no ordinary passenger”? That’s like Luke traveling in a completely blue X-Wing, written Skywalker on the sides, and expecting not to be followed or shot down or captured.
JEDIT: I see your lust for spicing up the designs, but doing it on the Emperor’s Shuttle just diminishes his logic and therefore his character. Vader, for instance, didn’t follow Luke in a red Tie-Fighter at the end of ANH and blended in with the others, keeping himself at an advantage for doing so rather than an increased target.
This is blending in?
The Empire is all about displaying it’s power and symbolism. A fancy ride for a short hop from a Star destroyer to the DS escorted by a whole lot of TIE’s isn’t that far fetched. The Emperor does not sneak around. They could employ the tactic of identical shuttles traveling in a group so nobody knows which one the Emperor is actually on.
I don’t mind whether the shuttles are changed or not. In ESB and ROTJ it seems a shuttle is a shuttle whether it’s transporting VIPs or cargo, but also like the idea of Palpatine wanting to show off a bit. If you do change it, for the love of all that is good please don’t make it black because, as pointed out by Jani-Wan, we need to actually see it.
I think idea of camouflage troopers goes against the motif of the Empire being the arrogant, out-of-place invaders.
I’d rather keep the existing colour scheme of Imperials as white/black/gray and the Rebels and Ewoks as “organic” greens and browns.
(Yes I know, I’ve been listening to Lucas commentaries WAY too much)
“This can’t be; Artoo, you’re playing the wrong message!”
…
“Hmmm, I wish I had your confidence.”
Clearly Threepio wasn’t in on the plan. I assume that Luke and Artoo would have counted on Threepio just being his usual self.
I will not tolerate people complaining about Muppets in Jabba’s Palace. Muppets are awesome.
End of line.
Agreed Muppets beat cgi hands down
Why does CGI keep coming up?
Most of the background creatures in Jabba’s look terrible. It’s just a fact.
-THIS DOES NOT MEAN I WANT THEM REPLACED BY CGI CARTOONS-
Why not? Do you think the action shots in Marvel films for example would have looked better if Iron Man, Spider-Man, Rocket and Hulk were puppets rather than CGI cartoons?
Let me start by saying that clearly no single approach is going to satisfy everyone.
Having said that, I feel that you’re being overly confident in an argument that doesn’t stand up to its own measures. You talk of “sense” but how does it make any “sense” if only 2 weeks have passed in the story when the actors (particularly Mark Hamill) have clearly aged years? In this regard a longer passage of time makes more “sense”.
Maybe some people would believe that it makes more sense that:
- It might take some time to find a single object in a rather large galaxy.
At the end of ESB they agreed to meet at a rendezvous point on Tatooine. They knew where Han was.
Good list.
Make the Death Star bridge bigger, with more consoles and possibly a corridor. Somehow it just feels small, possibly due to lighting.
I feel the same needs to be done to the Executor bridge. It looks great in ESB (even better in ESB:R) but in ROTJ it looks like it’s closed for the night and they’re hangin’ out after hours. Low lights and it seems like most of the screens and machines have been turned off.
JEDIT- that may have been what you were talking about in the first place. I don’t remember the bridge on the Death Star.
The Death Star bridge (or Control Room I guess) is first shown in the opening scene when granting Vader’s shuttle permission to approach and deactivating the shield, then later during the battle when passing on the order to fire, causing a man on a raised platform to half-heartedly operate a control at waist level.
When the Executor comes on the scene Piett and his crew seem to take over the gatekeeper duty for some reason.
The room is rather small and used for two very different functions, so makes the whole operation seem much smaller. There are deleted scenes featuring this room, so I’m recognizing it now more than I would have previously.
I concur with almost everything in this list, with the minor exception of Leia asking Han to “Hold Me”. I think it gives weight to the fact that something big just happened, because usually when Han gets upset Leia would normally snark back - ( a departure of character for both of them as they are fulfilling character arcs of change that make them endearing to us), but instead just says “hold me”. I like that Han is a bit taken aback but falls into her pretty deep as the scene ends.
Thanks!
I fully agree that it’s an important scene and wasn’t suggesting cutting it - I just wondered if the scene might play out better with the dialog track removed but maybe it is good to have that level of vulnerability. I guess I was influenced by the Anakin/Padme scene in ROTS that worked well with no dialog. Hard to do for Han, but easy for Leia since I think she’s facing away from camera at that point.
For what it’s worth:
After re-watching the movie recently, here’s my own wish-list of changes (with hopefully most of the points already covered in this thread omitted). Apologies for the length and for any repitition.
TATOOINE
Undo pointless inconsistent Blu-Ray changes such as the door to Jabbas palace being much larger on the outside, but still the same size inside.
Fix the Luke hologram to match the rest of the saga (desaturate, blue tint, add scanlines).
Have the Gamorrean guard strike the tentacled beast in the cage, rather than miss it with a dull thud.
When Jabba knocks Threepio down make Jabba actually strike him rather than Threepio apparently doing a twirl and falling over for no reason.
Have Luke somehow make use of his lightsaber during the battle, rather than just swinging it like a nerf bat.
Even if the lead up is done in a less silly way, still have Boba Fett end up inside the Sarlacc.
Remove the Sarlacc burp gag. One per movie is enough.
Have the chain dig more deeply into Jabba’s throat when Leia’s pulling it.
Don’t re-instate the sandstorm. The current pacing works well at that point.
DAGOBAH
Keep Luke’s visit to Yoda after Tatooine rather than before it. Luke needs a reason for being away so long - his friends.
Have Yoda say “Luke” less often.
ENDOR
Don’t have the scout’s speeder turn corners while he is looking backwards.
Fix or replace the speeder POV shots where the forest can be seen running out, as the footage approaches a clearing.
Keep the scene with Leia and Wicket. This is likely the first instance where an Ewok has been shown kindness by a hitherto mysterious and cruel human race, and a key to getting the Ewoks’ cooperation (even if they still needed a golden man to levitate).
Translate the lines “Yes that’s wise” and “Nice and short” into Ewok-ese.
I think the dialogue in the “I’m sorry”, “Hold me” exchange is redundant and the scene works better without it.
Keep the Ewok traps for the AT-ST’s, but have them trigger before Chewie hijacks one. Currently it looks like the Ewoks could be trapping Chewie.
Fix the terrible effect of the shot AT-ST that, after exploding quite well, quickly cross-fades to a static model of just the legs.
Maybe a little hard to fix, but if possible remove Han’s inappropriate grab when Leia is shot.
DEATH STAR
Make the Death Star bridge bigger, with more consoles and possibly a corridor. Somehow it just feels small, possibly due to lighting.
Fix the blue button pressed by the Imperial operator when Vader’s shuttle is granted passage, which is clearly just a painted square. Have it react somehow by being depressed or lighting up.
Enhance the display off to the side in the throne room, which has pictures on it early in the film but later is blank.
When the first capital ship is hit by the Death Star laser, have the nearby ships react in some way, being tossed by the shockwave or at least taking some damage.
Add more sparks to Vader’s suit as he’s carrying Palpatine to show his suit is now useless, maybe even blow out the chestplate.
Make Palpatine fall a bit further before exploding, making it more apparent he hit the bottom.
Straighten Vader’s bent wrist when he’s leaning over looking down into the shaft.
As the Death Star explodes, make the transition from space POV to Endor POV better somehow. Currently it’s a bit of a letdown when the music hits the high note there isn’t really a visual spectacle to match it.
