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seventiesfilmnut

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4-Jun-2004
Last activity
31-Mar-2009
Posts
177

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Post
#244313
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244313/action/topic#244313
Time
This was the reading from Windows Explorer using the original disc....

And in answer to the other question I did a direct A/B - in each case the deeper bass and greater dynamic range (the range between the quietest to loudest sound) turned out to be the 'Faces' LD.

To be perfectly fair though without having first heard the laserdisc I wouldn't know what I was missing, but as the 16-bit PCM track EXISTS and COULD HAVE BEEN USED on this release, it's a crying shame they just went with DD only.
Post
#244280
Topic
Star Wars Limited Edition Screen Captures.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244280/action/topic#244280
Time
Oh well it's a moot point now anyway as these things are out... GOUT in fact - haw haw! doh!

I wonder if anyone actually CARES about quality at Lucasfilm these days? Makes you wonder... how much effort would it have taken them to just get the best looking LD transfer (which appears to be the PAL version) and then transfer these with an anamorphic transfer?
Post
#244223
Topic
Star Wars Limited Edition Screen Captures.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244223/action/topic#244223
Time
The DVNR IS present on the GOUT DVDs as well, and when you have that on screen over the top of film grain the result is as we see it. I remember reading somewhere on the Home Theatre forum that the DVNR was applied DURING the telecine process back in 1993 so it's unfortunately built-in to the D1 mastertape, which these have been struck from.

Like yourself I actually like film grain, make you realise you are watching a celuloid film not some CGI digital re-creation, and am glad you can see it in alot of the shots. Unfortunately in certain areas (Tatooine segments on Star Wars, Hoth on Empire etc) they must have put the DVNR on it's highest setting, and I bet the film grain drove the DVNR software crazy creating a somewhat murky end result in some scenes....

I think some are confusing film grain with DVNR artifacts - we have both on display with these releases...

I'd still rather have these than the SE's any day of the week however.
Post
#244110
Topic
So then, PAL or NTSC GOUT for best quality?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244110/action/topic#244110
Time
But - from what I've read - it IS a conversion from NTSC and not a freshly minted PAL release. I would have thought the NTSC could - in theory - have the edge due to the lack of this additional picture processing stage of the PAL release. The NTSC version also appears to use more bytes on the disc than the PAL, though perhaps this is due to the extra running time compared with the speeded up PAL DVD...

I've given into the dark side and ordered the Star Wars set + tin from a fellow on Ebay after sayign I wouldn't buy! Currently hanging my head in shame, but after seeing the PAL release of Star Wars (and finding it acceptable) and realising this may well be th elast time to purchase it I gave in.

Damn you Lucas (shakes fist in general direction of America) - another £40 of my hard earned gone to your Empire!!!

;-)
Post
#244078
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244078/action/topic#244078
Time
I've got both the Faces LDs and the GOUT Star Wars DVD (still undecided whether to get the other two yet or not) and very high quality amplification, and to my ears at least the raw PCM of the laserdisc is far superior and punchy to the DD DVD. Greater dynamic range as well. When you think about it the DD soundtrack is really like an MP3 of the 'original' 16-bit PCM soundtrack. I don't think the DD tracks sucks at all, BUT the 16 bit is clearly superior especially for the finer nuances of the music.

Being as we didn't get the anamorphic transfer, they at least they should really have given us the option of the full 16-bit transfer of the soundtrack at least. Then at least we would have the best transfer possible of the 1993/5 era laserdisc, which I think is as good as we will get it until Lucasfilm is no longer under George's command.
Post
#244040
Topic
So then, PAL or NTSC GOUT for best quality?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244040/action/topic#244040
Time
Right, trying to get this back on topic....

Just discovered on another thread that the NTSC dvd appears to be larger in size than the PAL version.

The videofolder for the PAL GOUT is:

6.45 GB (6,448,742,400)

Could someone post the NTSC video-ts folder size please? This might be an indication that the NTSC version could possibly have the edge in picture quality stakes? If so I'll take my PAL release back and order from overseas.

Cheers.

- John
Post
#244035
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/244035/action/topic#244035
Time
Hi move along!

That's very interesting - Just checked my disc properly (sorry for my off the mark space remaining statement earlier) I have the PAL DVD and that is 6,91 GB (6,910,599,168) GB in size (inc. all the extras).

I wonder why the NTSC version is larger?.....

I thought it would have been th eother way around as PAL DVDs contain more information as I understand it? (which I probably don't ;-) )


- John
Post
#243995
Topic
Info: 2006 GOUT DVD using 'Faces' PCM Sound?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243995/action/topic#243995
Time

Howdy all!

Have just been reading about the DD sound mix of the GOUT DVD’s. Why they choose to do this rather than give us the raw PCM which they COULD have done with the 2-3gig of free space remaining on the dual layer discs is beyond me. I mean the new DVDs sound pretty good, but after listening to the ‘Faces’ LDs again there’s no contest - 16-bit sound smuch better as you’d expect.

Being somewhat new to all this, how easy would it be to take the raw 16-bit PCM audio of the ‘Faces’ laserdiscs (which I have on my hard drive from using the digital out of my Pioneer CDL-2950) and to splice it into the new GOUT DVDs? Seems to me we’d then have a “perfect” representation of the 1993/5 era laserdiscs then. Would the PCM need to be increased to 48khz first?

I have access to a laptop with Adobe premiere, so how easy/difficult would it be to strip out the DD soundtrack, and replace it with the ‘Faces’ PCM audio?

Many thanks!

  • John
Post
#243627
Topic
So then, PAL or NTSC GOUT for best quality?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243627/action/topic#243627
Time
God DAMN could we cut down on the squabbling a bit here please? Just wanted to know which version looks the best - PAL or NTSC... didn't intend to star a techno-babble flame-war discussion hahaha! It's just so infantile at the end of the day.... we don't want this turning into TF.N afterall....

Anyhoo regarding the pitch correction I noticed this was definately NOT the case with the 2004 PAL versions - Luke sounds like a chipmonk haha! He sounds less like said creature in the GOUT so I'm guessing it was pitch corrected for the original versions (as it was when the PAL THX versions were released on VHS way back when - remembered a THX dude being interviewed about it then and saying that was the case. Stands to reason they would have done that on this release as well).

Cheers

- J
Post
#243625
Topic
The 1977 Crawl.
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243625/action/topic#243625
Time
I can't believe we're even going into the crawl in this much detail - no wonder us fans have a reputation as being a little - well - 'special' - hahaha! Not taking the P here, but just suddenly hit me the level of detail we go into over these releases is perhaps a tad over the top? Even if this crawl is digitally generated at some point, does it really matter in the scheme of things? It looked fine to me and this on a projected screen...
Post
#243588
Topic
So then, PAL or NTSC GOUT for best quality?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243588/action/topic#243588
Time
I should add to my original query that I use an Infocus SP4805 DLP video projector which throws a widescreen image about 78" across on my bedroom wall, using component inputs, so I guess I need all the detail/resolution etc that I can get, which I suppose means the PAL version then by a narrow margin. Just wish I could get used to the speeded up sound though after being used to the 'Faces' LDs for years. Then again if it's proved at some point within the next few days there's barely a difference in picture quality between the two then I think I'll plump for the NTSC editions for the correct running speed.

Moth3r - perhaps you are right about it not being pitch corrected... it sounds correct, but obviously a little faster... haha! If I hadn't been so used to the 'Faces' LD for years I guess I wouldn't have even noticed.

- J
Post
#243569
Topic
So then, PAL or NTSC GOUT for best quality?
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243569/action/topic#243569
Time
Hi everyone!

Well I'm happy with my PAL copy of the original Star Wars, apart from the 4% faster running time, though it does appear to have been pitch corrected, as the original THX VHS releases were BTW.

However it appears the PAL versions are merely upscaled from their NTSC counterparts from other comments on this forum. Would having the NTSC version yield better picture quality as it hasn't had to go through this upscalling process? Any comparison shots between the two would be great as I need to know whether to get the other two DVDs in PAL or NTSC.

Thanks!

- John
Post
#243381
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243381/action/topic#243381
Time
P.S. Forgot to add all my above observations were with the image zoomed in, like others here. So the picture can be considered very good to stand up to this zooming, and on a 76" screen!

My MAJOR gripe about these discs though is the menus are anamorphic, and yet when the film is zoomed in to be used on a 16:9 projector, or 16:9 TV (and I use both) the subtitles disappear off the bottom of the screen. This is a stupid over-sight which I shall contact Fox UK about. No excuses for this...

Do the NTSC versions suffer from this as well?
Post
#243371
Topic
First Impressions of the OOT ...
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/243371/action/topic#243371
Time
Hi everyone - thought I'd add my impressions of the PAL release of the OOT DVD of Star Wars only.

I watched it on a 76" LCD projector using component connections. Whilst the quality is not up to a modern anamorphic presentation, I have to agree with others here that it wasn't ass bad as I was expecting at all. I own the 'Faces' laserdiscs, and also a number of fan rips from these, and again I have to say this release blows them away, not really surprising when you consider it's one step closer to the mastertape than any LD transfer could hope to be. It shouls also be noted that Lucasfilm have at least tried their best to give the LD transfer it's best chance to shine by giving it the full dual-layer DVD-9 treatment which automatically puts it a few steps ahead of most fan preservations.

True, there is ALOT of film grain, but I don't mind this - it recreates the authentic feeling of seeing it back at the flicks when they first came out. More disturbing is the DNR created grain which brings down the picture quality in some scenes - most notably the Tatooine segments of the film. Overall though I was surprised at the detail levels, and the black and white levels were spot on unlike the 2004 editions.... The colours are a bit washed out in some scenes, but this is due to the film print used. I'd still have the colours in this print though than the horrible artificial mess of the 2004 DVDs. The Bonus Edition DVDs look organic and real in comparision.

It was such a relief to see the ORIGINAL again on a big screen - I'd not realised how much I'd gotten used to bracing myself for the annoying CGI distractions, and poor music editing of the Special Editions. It was like having an old friend back again.

I did notice some obvious haloing effects in several scenes which detracted from the presentation a little - computer read outs make this especially visible. I'm wondering if these are present in the NTSC version of the DVDs or whether they're part of the D1 master? I'd be grateful if someone could let me know as if not I may order the other two as NTSC discs. I also prefer having the sound run at the original speed rather than the 4% PAL speed up. Having said that the soundtrack was glorius, and possessed of a perfect balance between dialogue, music and sound FX - again unlike the Special Editions. Bass had real punch as well. As has been mentioned elsewhere, the soundtrack is actually the 1993 mix, so it can't strictly speaking be called the 'Original Theatrical Edition'!!! Still overall I reckon it's the best mix of the soundtrack available, give or take a few missed lines.

Overall then, I'd give picture quality a 6 out of 10, and sound 8. Much better than I expected, though it's still a crime that we are not getting anamorphic transfers. BUT I reckon it's th ebest we'll have them for the forseeable future until the price of film scanners goes down enough to warrant a full fan-funded transfer ;o)

Cheers,

- John
Post
#235039
Topic
Close Encounters - Criterion (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/235039/action/topic#235039
Time
Hi there!

I have a good quality back-up of my cherished Criterian 1977 edition release (actually a "reconstruction" of it if we're splitting hairs) of CE3K. I used a stand alone Panasonic DVD recorder on XP mode, and a Pioneer CLD-2950 LD player using very high quality Van Den Hul leads. I also used one DVD-r disc per LD side to max out the picture quality. I'd love to stitch this all together and tweak the picture, then burn to DVD-DL but lack the time/money/software to do this.

If you'd like to do a trade or something please send me a PM.


Cheers!

- John
Post
#232516
Topic
1977 70mm Soundtrack Strikes Back (Released)
Link
https://originaltrilogy.com/post/id/232516/action/topic#232516
Time
Hahaha I stand corrected then! Just thought if the tapes had to be slowed down in the analogue domain you might risk increased wow & flutter which isn't the case in the digital domain. Also tricky in some cases to adjust playback speed of one's cassette deck. Digital just seems more accurate to me when it comes to speed stability.

Of course the ultimate playback machine for this would be the Nakamichi ZX-7 or Dragon - awsome machines.

- J