see you auntie

Trailer here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sI_ckeUjonE

Recently it was joked that every time there's a new sticker book released it's reported on, but actual real Star Wars news isn't.

Granted it's not much that Kurtz hasn't said before but it's of great interest, speaking out against Lucas and Lucasfilm and what ROTJ should have been but wasn't because of merchadising, all days before Celebration V. Doesn't he have a scheduled appearance there? Lucasfilm is going to be pissed off.

Any way: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/herocomplex/2010/08/star-wars-was-born-a-long-time-ago-but-not-all-that-far-far-away-in-1972-filmmakers-george-lucas-and-gary-kurtz-wer.html

Did 'Star Wars' become a toy story? Producer Gary Kurtz looks back

“Star Wars” was born a long time ago, but not all that far, far away. In 1972, filmmakers George Lucas and Gary Kurtz were toiling on “American Graffiti” in their San Rafael office when they began daydreaming about a throwback sci-fi adventure that channeled the old “Flash Gordon” serials as opposed to the bleak “message” movies that had taken over the genre.

“We had no idea what we were starting,” said Kurtz, who was the producer of the first two “Star Wars” films and also a second-unit director. “That simple concept changed Hollywood in a way....”

There was a bittersweet tinge to Kurtz’s voice, and it’s no surprise. This year is the 30th anniversary of “The Empire Strikes Back,” the “Star Wars” sequel that many fans consider the pinnacle moment in a franchise that has pulled in $16 billion in box office and merchandising. But 1980 was also the year that Kurtz and Lucas realized the Jedi universe wasn’t big enough for the both of them.

“I could see where things were headed,” Kurtz said. “The toy business began to drive the [Lucasfilm] empire. It’s a shame. They make three times as much on toys as they do on films. It’s natural to make decisions that protect the toy business, but that’s not the best thing for making quality films.”

 He added: “The first film and ‘Empire’ were about story and character, but I could see that George’s priorities were changing.”

This weekend, Kurtz steps back into the “Star Wars” galaxy as a special guest at Star Wars Celebration V, a massive convention in Orlando, Fla., organized by Lucasfilm and expected to draw thousands of fans who will come to buy collectibles, attend panels, get cast-member autographs or even visit the event’s themed tattoo parlor or wedding chapel.

Kurtz’s presence speaks to his vital role in the franchise’s history — he is, for instance, the one who came up with the title for “The Empire Strikes Back” — but the Lucasfilm leadership is already fretting about the Jedi galaxy expatriate’s appearance. They may have good reason; during a recent visit to Los Angeles, the filmmaker, who just turned 70, showed a willingness to speak out against the priorities of an old partner.

“The emphasis on the toys, it’s like the cart driving the horse,” Kurtz said. “If it wasn’t for that the films would be done for their own merits. The creative team wouldn’t be looking over their shoulder all the time.”

No fan of conflict, Kurtz has remained relatively quiet through the years but over coffee on a sunny Southern California afternoon he spoke at length about his lightsaber days.

Like many fans, Kurtz — who characterizes his relationship with Lucas as “professional” — was too invested in the “Star Wars” universe to skip the second trilogy: 1999’s “Star Wars: Episode I — The Phantom Menace,” 2002’s “Star Wars: Episode II — Attack of the Clones” and 2005’s “Star Wars: Episode III — Revenge of the Sith.” (Lucas retitled the three original movies as “Star Wars: Episode IV — A New Hope,” “Star Wars: Episode V — The Empire Strikes Back” and “Star Wars: Episode VI — Return of the Jedi.”) But as he sat in the dark with the follow-up “Star Wars” films, he squirmed in his seat.

 “I don’t like the idea of prequels, they make the filmmakers back in to material they’ve already covered and it boxes in the story,” Kurtz said. “I think they did a pretty good job with them although I have to admit I never liked Hayden Christensen in the role of Anakin Skywalker. I just wished the stories had been stronger and that the dialogue had been stronger. It gets meek. I’m not sure the characters ever felt real like they did in ‘Empire.’"

A spokeswoman for George Lucas said he was unavailable for comment.

Kurtz’s sentiments speak to a churning pop-culture debate about the enduring legacy of Lucas and the trajectory of his still-unfolding “Star Wars” mythology. The first trilogy of films ended in 1983 with “Return of the Jedi” and the second trilogy brought a whole new generation into the universe but also left many fans of the original feeling sour or disengaged. A seventh feature film, an animated movie called “The Clone Wars,” was released in 2008, which, along with video games and toys, speaks to a young 21st century constituency that may be only vaguely aware of the 1977 film.

The same passion pulling fans to Orlando also stokes the debate about Lucas and his creation. Alexandre Philippe is the director of “The People vs. George Lucas,” a documentary that just had its West Coast premiere at the Los Angeles Film Festival. He says that Kurtz has become a figure of integrity to the fans who believe that Lucas has followed the wrong path.

 Philippe said the departure of Kurtz was a major moment in “Star Wars” history and deeply unsettling to all involved. “The cast and crew were crushed when George and Gary went their separate ways,” said Philippe, who added that Mark Hamill, who portrayed Luke Skywalker, later explained it in broken-family terminology. “He said it was like mom and dad getting a divorce. They were both equally loved and respected on the set.”

For Kurtz, the popular notion that “Star Wars” was always planned as a multi-film epic is laughable. He says that he and Lucas, both USC film school grads who met through mutual friend Francis Ford Coppola in the late 1960s, first sought to do a simple adaptation of “Flash Gordon,” the comic-strip hero who had been featured in movie serials that both filmmakers found charming.

“We tried to buy the rights to ‘Flash Gordon’ from King Features but the deal would have been prohibitive,” Kurtz said. “They wanted too much money, too much control, so starting over and creating from scratch was the answer.”

Lucas came up with a sprawling treatment that pulled from “Flash Gordon,” Arthurian legend, “The Hidden Fortress” and other influences. The document would have required a five-hour film but there was a middle portion that could be carved out as a stand-alone movie. Kurtz championed the project in pitch meetings with studios and worked intensely on casting, scouting locations and finding a way to create a believable alien universe on a tight budget.

“Star Wars” opened with a title sequence that announced it as “Episode IV” as a winking nod to the old serials, not a film franchise underway, Kurtz said.

“Our plan was to do ‘Star Wars’ and then make ‘Apocalypse Now’ and do a black comedy in the vein of ‘M*A*S*H*,’" Kurtz said. “Fox insisted on a sequel or maybe two [to ‘Star Wars’]. Francis [Ford Coppola] … had bought the ["Apocalypse Now"] rights so George could make it. He eventually got tired of waiting and did it on his own, of course.”

The team of Lucas and Kurtz would not hold together during their own journey through the jungles of collaborative filmmaking. Kurtz chooses his words carefully on the topic of their split.

After the release of “Empire” (which was shaped by material left over from that first Lucas treatment), talk turned to a third film and after a decade and a half the partners could no longer find a middle ground.

“We had an outline and George changed everything in it," Kurtz said. “Instead of bittersweet and poignant he wanted a euphoric ending with everybody happy. The original idea was that they would recover [the kidnapped] Han Solo in the early part of the story and that he would then die in the middle part of the film in a raid on an Imperial base. George then decided he didn’t want any of the principals killed. By that time there were really big toy sales and that was a reason.”

The discussed ending of the film that Kurtz favored presented the rebel forces in tatters, Leia grappling with her new duties as queen and Luke walking off alone “like Clint Eastwood in the spaghetti westerns,” as Kurtz put it.

 Kurtz said that ending would have been a more emotionally nuanced finale to an epic adventure than the forest celebration of the Ewoks that essentially ended the trilogy with a teddy bear luau.

He was especially disdainful of the Lucas idea of a second Death Star, which he felt would be too derivative of the 1977 film. “So we agreed that I should probably leave.”

Kurtz went straight over to “The Dark Crystal,” a three-year project with old friend Jim Henson, whom Kurtz had brought in on the creation of Yoda for “Empire.”

After that he shifted into a lower gear as far as his career and, relocating to England, turned to British television productions. He’s now working on a ramping feature-film project called “Panzer 88” that he says will begin filming later this year and will feature visual effects by Weta, the same New Zealand outfit that populated Middle-earth in the “Lord of the Rings” trilogy.

The producer said that huge films hold little allure for him now and that he is more interested in smaller, more nimble productions that put an emphasis on “human stories.” That might speak to his alienation from the "Star Wars" universe, but when he talks about Lucas and their shared history the stories are still tinted by nostalgia, admiration and affection.

On casting the 1977 film: “We had a lot of people, hundreds, that we saw. It was quick and dirty. You talk to each person, jot down a note or two. Are they a score of five or higher? Do they deserve a callback? On those lists were a lot of interesting people — John Travolta, Sly Stallone — who were great but just not right. I went to New York to do an interview with Jodie Foster, for instance, but she was just too young for Leia. A lot of it comes down to luck and timing.”

On Harrison Ford, who became a Hollywood icon after “Star Wars” but keeps the fervent fandom at arm’s length: “He’s always been somewhat cynical, since the beginning of his career, about everything. In a way he tried not to take notoriety or the fans too seriously. Movies are movies and real life is his ranch.”

 On the moment he knew that “Star Wars” was becoming a pop-culture sensation: “On opening day I was on the East Coast and I did the morning-show circuit — ‘Good Morning America’ and ‘Today’ … in the afternoon I did a radio call-in show in Washington and this guy, this caller, was really enthusiastic and talking about the movie in really deep detail. I said, ‘You know a lot abut the film.’ He said, ‘Yeah, yeah, I’ve seen it four times already.’ And that was opening day. I knew something was happening.”

Kurtz isn’t sure what to expect in Orlando but he says that “Empire” may be the shining moment of his career, the confluence of commercial and artistic success. His work as a second-unit director and his hands-on efforts with the visual effects make him especially proud.

“I took a master class with Billy Wilder once and he said that in the first act of a story you put your character up in a tree and the second act you set the tree on fire and then in the third you get him down,” Kurtz said. “ ‘Empire’ was the tree on fire. The first movie was like a comic book, a fantasy, but ‘Empire’ felt darker and more compelling. It’s the one, for me, where everything went right. And it was my goodbye to a big part of my life.”

-- Geoff Boucher

zombie84 said:

I'll have to see if I can find it in the library some time.

If you don't have it on hand that's cool don't worry about it.

I thoroughly approve of this. Great work Zombie. The motivation for the creation of the site (sticker book releases making news) and the poster (Baronlando) that wrote it made me lol :)

Regarding the "don't rock the boat" article, is there any chance of getting the full John Knolls quote from the Tom Shone book? Sounds interesting.

Oh yeah I saw that a few days ago it was excellent (it's the Brick Vader one right?). Vader's interaction with Tarkin had me choking.

Also there's a Star Wars MacGyver intro mash-up going around. Funny stuff too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C54yPPiQMfw

When they are "filming" a movie for 2 1/2 years most of it on green screen scheduling conflicts or being busy isn't too much of an excuse. A lack of a desire to be involved is very valid.

And yes I did hear about Neeson's motorcycle accident when it occured (he could have died, it was quite serious) though from what I recall it didn't interfer with any currently in production projects of his.

A.

edit: thanks for creating the poll vote_for_palpatine.

Damn you ;)

*edit*

If I knew how to create a poll Mielr I would.

My vote is "Yea".

Sorry C3PX I didn't make it more than a few posts before I replied.

Great minds and all that....

Damn it. I hate it when board members go off their meds.

You have reached a new level of nitpicking and prequel bashing that didn't exist prior to your original post, congratulations!

Obi Wan in the prequels has a mole on his forehead where Alec Guinness' Kenobi does not. Zomg Conspiracy. The original Kenobi must has died on Tatooine post episode 3 and some older dude (that would explain the age discrepancy) must have taken his identity. Maybe some evil jedi who planned o lure Luke to the dark side through lying to him about his father!

You know what now I think about it, Vito Corleone in Godfather II looks nothing like Vito Corleone in the original, what's up with that?

You don't like the prequels, I don't care for them much either, but you seem to talk about them incessantly. Just ignore them and life will be a lot easier and you won't need to post this kind of rubbish.

Yeah I agree with Silverwook on that point.

I see it as the shield generator (landing platform and the rest since we didn't really see too much) being engulfed in a huge fireball, not so much the back entrance. Who's to say how far apart they really are?

Good post.

I'm sorry I don't want to anger you but I don't really have much more else to say. It was a real interesting read and I'm glad you spent the time typing it.

If the Anakin/ Emperor story was something like that it would have been phenomenal and spanned all three movies. But I feel I've spent enough of my life on the should have, would have, could have of the Star Wars prequels.

Your comments about the ending of ROTJ lead me to believe you didn't grow up with the the original version, possibly the special edition was your first exposure to the film - forgive me if I'm wrong. That would be the only reason upon seeing the "Yub Nub" ending you thought "that's it?"

For the rest of us who grew up with the original film it was simply the only ending of the film and the way I see it it was a product of its time. To me it would be like removing or replacing The Power of Love from Back to the Future because the song is dated and Hewy Lewis and the News are so not cool anymore.

Sure Yub Nub is 'kiddy' but uh that's the Ewoks. If one didn't realise that an hour into the movie the ending isn't going to save it.

Personally I like Yub Nub because I think it's funny (I'm laughing with it not at it) and it's so ridiculously upbeat how can you not like it.

Fucking LOL.

As soon as I saw the topic I laughed hard knowing what day it was. That's the fun of being nearly a day ahead of a lot of the rest of the world. I get one day of April Fools jokes in the real world then I'm prepared for the next day on the internet.

It made me laugh because Hayden to me seems rather meek and good natured but you never know they say it's always the quiet ones.

Even though he may not be the most talented actor I've never hated the guy or even made fun of him as much as other do, he seems like a genuinely nice guy. It's not like he wanted to be pasted into ROTJ or even knew about it.

That is until a few months ago I watched one of Kevin Smith's "Evening With" dvds. If you don't know basically they're a recording of one of the many Q and A's Smith does, basically him rambling on about life, his work, whatever people want him to talk about for a good 4 - 5 hours. Anyway, in one of them Smith tells a story about Hayden Christensen.

I'll paraphrase the story and I'm sure I'll get a few unimportant facts wrong. According to Smith just after the release of Clerks II (a Kevin Smith film in which in a scene two characters have an argument about which is the the better trilogy - Lord of the Rings or the OT, the guy supporting LOTR calls Hayden Mannequin Skywalker) Smith got a call from someone at Skywalker Ranch / Lucasfilm (Smith has connections there as he does all his sound editing on his movies at Skywalker Sound and got married on the Ranch back in the day) saying that Hayden called up George and/or a person in a position of power livid that Clerks II was making fun of him and suggested that Lucasfilm should sue Kevin Smith and/or The Weinstein Company/Miramax. Apparently the response was "ah no Hayden we are not going to do that"

Smith went on to say that it's parody, it's no big deal and by what he wrote he was supporting Star Wars over LOTR and it was the moronic fanboy character calling him Mannequin. He further went on to say he's Darth Vader stop being such a pussy and added the "NNOOOoooooo!!!

I'm sorry I'm not doing it justice but it's a really funny story and worth a watch.

I assume Hayden was sick of all the fanboy hate that has been aimed at him and finally snapped but still what a douche bag move.

AxiaEuxine said:

64. Star Wars Legos

I'm assuming that that is the same as Star War Lego, in that case strike that one off as I already said it.

I'm also assuming you are American, because Lego is singular apart from the U.S where everyone seems to think it's a plural.

Not trying to pick on you just a pet hate of mine.

He he I was just kidding around C3PX

28) The "Super" series for the SNES. Super SW / TESB / ROTJ.

20) Lego Star Wars - The Original Trilogy.

Way to be so broad C3PX. I was going to list each individual SW video game that I liked but you put the kibosh on that, how else will we reach 100 ;)

If there's ones we don't agree can we subtract them eg ROTJ ending :)

21) Ewan McGregor. The character may not have been perfect but the casting was.

22) Liam Neeson. Totally superfluous character but man was he a ray of sunshine.

23) I might as well add Star Wars Lego (I'm assuming point 8 referred to the Kenner/Hasbro lines).

+1 on the GOUT. It may be no where near what we wanted or what the original films deserve but to me it's better then nothing for now.

I will agree that Tatooine is "under" the Empire as it exists in the galaxy they rule the same as Alderaan is, though I see that and being in control of a planet as seperate things.

I'll correct myself on saying "far from the reach of the Empire" that's obviously not the case, but too far for them to give a crap about. But who cares right it's just my interpretation.

Maybe the citizens of Mos Eisley should have been celebrating the death of Jabba as he probably extorted the shit out of them. Either way this conversation is getting way to nerdy for my tastes.

Don't be apologetic if you're new you won't know what it stands for. It's a valid question one that many before you have asked.

GOUT - George's Original Unaltered Trilogy, used to distinguish the official 2006 DVD releases from the former fan preservations.

As found in Moth3r's acronym buster

We saw in ANH that the imperials had plenty of authority on Tatooine. They acted like they owned the place. The imperial reach certainly extended there (and to space nearby -as in the Tantive IV battle). I think Lucas was thinking of them as being under the empire when he did the SE.

It's the SE I'm arguing against. The Empire didn't have "plenty of authority" there. They had to have informants there for local intelligence. They were some sort of foreign detachment (I'm not good with military type language) they came from the star destroyer and they certainly didn't have any troops already based there.

They had lots of fire power and the fear of the Empire backing them, no one was going to fuck with them. Acting like owning the place and actually owning the place are two different things.

So I don't really see how things changed come ROTJ.

I presume Han was told Luke left because he felt he was jeopardising their mission.

That is Vader knew Luke was there, if Luke stayed Vader could find the location of the Rebels, by Luke leaving and turning himself in he could divert Vader's attention away.

I guess it's one thing that a squadron of Stormtroopers think that a small band of Rebels may be somewhere on moon covered in Forest but it's another if you've got Vader obsessively tracking your asses. 

That's the way I see it and I guess it works.

You know they added ropes around Han's feet in '97? *rolls eyes* It was a pretty silly situation in '83 but I guess they didn't have this 'rope' technology back then.

And as for the celebration scenes there has been discussion on the sudden uprising of the citizens on Coruscant and the significant population of Cloud City (didn't they flee?) which was also under control of the Empire (there wouldn't be much celebration if that was the case) but what about Tatooine?

Again it's been discussed that the planet is under control of the Hutts far from the reach of the Empire, why do they care? My problem is if I lived on a desert planet with two freakin' suns why would I be out partying in the middle of the street?

I liked when Mos Eisley was an under-populated backwater town reminiscent of a Sergio Leone western.

That's cool I get your point about not being able to watch them due to the frustrations associated the lack of a proper restoration.

It's really in the eye of the beholder but I own a 48" HDTV and while I admit they're less than spectacular and don't watch them often, I can still enjoy watching the GOUT. That said I'd find in near impossible if the kind soul on these very boards didn't create a tutorial on how to convert them to anamorphic.

But this is only page 2 so  I do not wish to derail this topic any further.

Ok could you please stop with with the /film reposts? That's four now by my count.

For those that don't know what I'm talking about and think I'm a crazy old man telling kids to get off my lawn /film or slash film is an excellent movie blog. Dangerous Incorporated has been copying blog entries made there and posting them here verbatim.

Examples one, two, three and four.

In the 'The Force action figure' thread I called him out on it but got no reply. I'm asking if you are Peter Sciretta? Because if you are not you're just plagiarising the guys good work and being really annoying in doing so.