savmagoett

Hello Lt. Hija 😃 nice to see some are still passionate about the subject of scales in Star Wars, I’m still passionate about it too, but I’ve not been active on OT for a long time, for several reasons, one of them being that another guy has taken over the subject with the same passion but with more accuracy than I could do at the time. He has undertaken the 3D modeling of every ship, building and noticeable objects in the OT beginning with ANH (ESB and ROJ will follow) doing some really fascinating analysis on the way. He’s also a major contributor in the fan building on a life size Millenium Falcon. I suggest you take a look at his progress (as I do now and then) he does an amazing job, incredible even:

His name is Stinson Lenz (alias Steve Starkiller on the replica prop forum).

-his blog:
http://deeplyobsessed.blogspot.be
-about the Falcon cockpit:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=227052
-about the TFA version of the Falcon:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=230674
-about the life size building:
http://www.therpf.com/showthread.php?t=147319

As for me I’m currently deeply immersing myself in the new Star Wars Battelfront game, and I’m considering creating mods for the game that would constitute some sort of virtual museum… maybe.

Sorry I didn't see you replies earlier guys… My personal life kept me from working on those scale issues and posting them here. But I'm still willing to be active here when I can :)

@Iván Antilles: I don't quite understand what you mean or what part of this tread you want to talk about, also, except for wikipedia, none of links you provided are working (not anymore I guess…)

@timdiggerm: Are you talking to Iván Antilles or me? and Which screenshot?

can you both clarify so I can answer you?

Hi Ady, I watched the new ESB-R trailer and the 2000 Facebook members clip, it's FAN-TA-STIC, thank you again for your work and sharing it with us.

I played them with my full HD projector, and It looked great, even though they are only 720p!
I hope you got someone who has such an installation to enjoy it the way it's supposed to be, anyway if you come by Brussels one day let me know ; )

I also enjoyed the split screen. Is someone (if not you) considering making a split screen comparison of the full length movie, as a bonus disc or something? That would be neat : )

By the way, looking at the new rebel transports, I can't help but to wonder if you did finally go for the 90m or the 120m, as I proposed? (I've posted the analysis here if anyone is interested)

TV's Frink said:

savmagoett said:

Hi there?

I'm trying to figure out how to answer this.

Irregardless, welcome back!

oops, I misspelled :p => correcting it…

Hi there, I've been away for a while, busy with real life stuff, but since the release of Ady's new ESB-R trailer my excitement about Star Wars stuff is up again, so I'm back to work on this god-damn Falcon.

In the mean time here is an analysis of the Rebel Transport I made for Ady a while ago. I wanted to post this after the falcon analysis was completed but since it's taking forever I though: what the hell…

Initial remarks:

In order to analyze a ship in Star Wars I always compare it to the elements next to it in it's various appearances in the movies and possibly some other sources.
The size of the average human figure I placed in all the images is 1.80 m.
The official length of the Rebel Transport is 90 m, the X-Wing 12.5 m, the Y-Wing 16 m, the Blockade Runner 150 m, the Falcon 26.7 m and the Medical Frigate 300 m.
The X-Wing and the Y-Wing sizes are ok, and I think I made a pretty good case for the 150 m Blockade Runner here. The medical frigate is to be analyzed and the Falcon is very much disputed.
Here is my blueprint based on the screenshot beneath but also various references from the movies and the model:

At first sight this matte below seems to be the best way to know the size of the ship because of the presence of an actor next to it, but further analysis shows otherwise…

Before measuring it we have to find out if the ship is indeed aligned with the actor, like it looks like when we consider it's shadow. The problem is the landing gear is masked by a box, luckily the far ship behind has a visible landing gear, so we can pick that one to do the measurement.
One thing to notice is that the landing gear in this matte is rather different from the one visible on the model (even if we consider the model one to be retracted), and places the ship higher from the ground than my first screenshot. Another strange thing is that the other far ship on the right side has the proper model landing gear and doesn't touch the ground. It also lacks the cockpit/pod.
With this different landing gear we can tell the ship is indeed at the same alignment as the actor, which imply the ship is at scale with the actor.
So the ship here is 26 m. A rather curious size considering the pod at the summit screams "cockpit"! Not to mention it would actually be smaller than the Falcon set!! Seem very wrong to me…

Here is the official length of the ship, 90 m is better than 26 m but seems a little small compare to the X-Wing and to fit a pilot in the cockpit:

Here are several concept sketches that give an approximated length of 120 m:

Note: given the quite different proportions of this concept version of the ship I adapted the landing gear to have a better comparison.

(the red circles here are indicating the part to consider for scale reference)

120 m is quite larger than the official 90 m length but it works better in my opinion with what we feel elsewhere in the movie (not to mention the pilot would feel much more comfy):

This one below is not exactly from the movie, it comes from Chronicle book, but it seems consistent with the movie:

In this shot from ROJ the Falcon and 3 X-Wings are maneuvering quite close to the the Rebel transport, it is reasonable to think the Rebel transport appear a little smaller here. So, whatever is one's position about what the size of the Falcon is or should be (26,7m or more), the Rebel transport here is at least 120 m:

Here are some shots where the 120 m Rebel Transport works very well with the other ships in their official size:

Note: I could never found an accurate blueprint of the medical frigate, I guess it never existed, ILM guys must have build it from scratch using Nilo Rodis-Jamero's concept sketches. All the blueprints attempts I could find in Star Wars literature where very far from the real thing, as a matter of fact this ship is one of the hardest to grasp and less documented ship in the trilogy. So I reconstituted one myself using screencaps and a lot of pictures of the model taken at an exhibition, I spend a lot of time and dedication to it and I'm quite proud of the result : )

You may want to check all these comparisons in motion to better feel the size of all those ships…

So what do you think?

adywan said:

ImperialFighter, the medical frigate is a bit of a problem. It's going to be very hard to add the interior in the first shot. I haven't given up hope but there aren't any shots of the interior from that angle that i could add the missing elements. The shot that pans across from the falcon you can now see the droids in the window. The outer edges of the window i don't know if you would see it or not from the inside at those angles. I doubt i would be adding anything like that.

Ady, I don't know if I mentioned it, but I actually have an inside/outside analysis of the medical frigate ongoing, with blueprint of the inside set as well as the frigate model, that should be very helpful to figuring out what should be done with these shots. I've been too busy with other things lately, but I'll try to finish it and post it soon if I can…

Here is my source for the Bespin platform:

It is from the special edition I think, you don't see the bottom of it in the OT, if I remember correctly…

The lights seems rectangle to me, have you another reference Angel?

The Falcon Platform 327 features circular lights though…

Hi there everyone : )

just a little something I wanted to share as I haven't really showed what exactly my work on "star wars scales" is all about.

Beyond the obvious pleasure of rethinking and redrawing the visual elements of Star Wars, the idea is to give a alternate point of view about the scale of some ships, buildings and other stuff in star wars, via a series of retro style and elegant wallpaper (right-click: view image, to see full size):

Tell me what you think…

A B C said:

I just found this on my computer...

... Too high or the BG ones are too low (rather too small). Pick one. Perspective will save you.

 

I know that, you silly, my added characters are scaled acording to the 120 m postulate, I was looking for a quick'n'easy fix, but it's true the perspective is still wrong (I love the pop up Yoda though ; )
To do it right you would have to :
-separate the 3 ships from the hangar
-separate the cases, boxes and cables
-divide the hangar in two layers
-reconstruct all the missing areas resulting from the separation on the hangar, the ships, etc…
I don't have the time to do that. That's why I'm offering the file to those who want to do that.

I think the problem is that the original matte was constructed with the wrong scale in mind (the ships there are approximately 26 m (85 Ft)), so the perspective reflect that. With the ships being 26 m, the camera would stand about 1,7 m of the ground (which correspond to the pov of the foreground trio), if they are in fact 120 m, then the camera would now stand about 8 m of the ground! And that's not the only problem:

-the ships in the matte are standing about 2 times higher compare to the model in the snow (which would make about 6 meters from the ground for a 120 m ship):


-the front landing gear of the ships on the right, is quite different from the model in the snow (and quite ugly I might add)
-the other far ship on the right side has the proper model landing gear but doesn't touch the ground
-Also keep in mind that Ady specified he can't scale down the foreground actors.

vaderios said:

cap said:

They’re standing on a platform?

No.. It has to be established visually.

 

-Angel

DF Shadow said:

I thought about that too, it would be interesting to see how it suits the shot, but personally I wouldn't change the nature of the shot too much…

Darth Lars said:

Like this mockup, I do!

I think that the people in the background must look very hurried and stressed. The activity must be frantic!

That's what I wanted to do, that and some soldiers running in formation too, things of the sort, but I didn't have images of rebels acting like that so managed with what I had on hand… : /

About the size of the file being 300Mb, not only I didn't wanted to alter the quality of the matte scan but I also wanted you guys to be able to start from fresh. so there's a significant number layers for: the original untouched matte scan, perspective constructions, blueprints of the rebel transport with a character portraying the 120 m scale, the fixes I've made, etc… Also I'm not particularly used to photoshop, so it's very possible the file is unnecessary big, but bear with me ; )

Those who want the psd file of the montage below, just pm me.

After my analysis I think the Correct scale of the transport is more 120M than the official 90M. My privious mock-up was more like 90m transport, so I made another mock-up (below) refining things a little, while I was preparing the photoshop file for you guys.

I've included a scale chart of the correct 120 m length transport into the file.

I'm having some difficulties uploading it with yousendit, any ideas how to share à 300Mb file easy, quick and free?

I will send the photoshop file with all the separate elements to you guys, so that you can work easily and more convincingly on your ideas, just ask me and I'll pm you a link tonight (gmt +1)…

About this matte we talked a while ago:

After an analysis I made (that I will post on my thread after the Falcon issue) I concluded that the transports scale is really wrong, the right transport in the background is missing its cockpit/pod and its landing gear doen't touch the ground.

I've done a mock-up to see if it's possible to solve the problems without actually changing the size of the matte:

And I always felt that this scene was awfully quiet for an evacuation, it's especially true with this background guys now scaled down, so here's another one with more things going on:

Radi0n said:

So both savmagoett and ABC are french?
Peut-être que nous trois peuvent aider Ady à faire un nouveau version du film, complètement en français? :p

Wow Ziz, thanks for the info :)

Actually I'm Belgian, you may dispense with the pleasentries folks :p

I wrote this page 681 of the thresd:

savmagoett said:

About this dubbing debate:

Even though I now watch every movie in English, that has not always been the case, like most French talking peoples I grew up with a French dubbed star wars. I agree, it's clumsy and poorly made (especially ANH) but it's still better than looking a movie with subtiltes, you can't feel the emotion of the characters and you miss a portion of the pictures, especially when you're a kid.

I have a lot of friends who can't watch a movie in English, and I always been very frustrated I can't show them ANH(R), as it has no French dubbing or subtitles.
BTW is there a version of ANH(R) with French subs out there? In progress? And what about a French dubbed ANH(R)? I'm actually considering making a fan edit of the French dubb for Ady's ANH(R), fixing all the bad translations they did back then (3po > 6po ?, millennium Falcon > millennium Condor?!, Chewbacca > Chictabac ?!?!? or Chewie > Chico ?!?!?) but I'm not sure I'll have the time to do something like that…

Anyway, I'm verry happy to hear that you intend to add French dubbing Ady.*

:)

I should add that: because I grew up with a French dubbed star wars, all my childhood remembrance of them is in French so I'm quite attached to it, even though it's poorly translated sometimes.

@Ady: can you confirm (or deny) your intentions regarding the dubbing?

A B C said:

Oh I'm stupid ! Matte IS the same than the french word then ! (matte = non brilliant)... Hahem... thanks. I just don't have it in my little dictionnary.

en français on dit "peinture sur verre" c'est plus descriptif ; )

cbaka said:

What a beautiful piece of art, is this a Ralph Mc quarry work ?

Yes that's what the book says…

adywan said:

…Looking at the scan closely i noticed that the closest transport is actually a photograph of the model. I always thought that this one looked too good to be a painting.

However you'll notice that the tip of the nose has been redrawn…

Since it makes peoples feel all warm and fuzzy inside here are other pics of this beauty from the chronicles, enjoy : )

adywan said:

savmagoett you are a Saviour :) I really can't thank you enough. Just look at those original colours. So beautiful. Just PM me the link :)

It's really good to see you back. Would it be ok for me to PM you because i wanted to talk to you about the varying scales of the transport in the movie.

of course you can, anytime : )

PM sent

adywan said:

Does anyone have a high-res picture of the matte painting used in this shot?

I have scanned this from The Star Wars Chronicles:

This is a photobucket resize, the original file is about 40Mb, you can actualy see the weft of the print. I can send it to you via "YouSendIt"…

I don't know if that has been brought to/already taken care of, I didn't check trough all the posts, so sorry if has.
As some of you may know I've been conducting a quite extensive analysis of the Falcon, and it seems to me that ILM has gone a little heavy on the eraser with this mate:

Here's what I identify as missing:

Here's what it should look like:

Humm, so if I may suggest something, the depth of this inside shot could lead you to make several entrances, that way it would make this side more obviously different than the main entrance. Just a thought…

Oh, and, nice shot anyway ; )

doubleofive said:

SevB, that is the back entrance. The front is the one Han rides his tauntaun into:



See what I mean?

Hi guys : ) long time no write…

That second shot never stroked me as another entrance! I always saw it as the same principal entrance taken further away…

I'm I the only one?

Lol :)

fortunately, Greedo remains Greedo in the French dubb…

But Gringo is still better than "Chictabac", in French it means "elegant tobacco" ?!?!?!?

About this dubbing debate:

Even though I now watch every movie in English, that has not always been the case, like most French talking peoples I grew up with a French dubbed star wars. I agree, it's clumsy and poorly made (especially ANH) but it's still better than looking a movie with subtiltes, you can't feel the emotion of the characters and you miss a portion of the pictures, especially when you're a kid.

I have a lot of friends who can't watch a movie in English, and I always been very frustrated I can't show them ANH(R), as it has no French dubbing or subtitles.
BTW is there a version of ANH(R) with French subs out there? In progress? And what about a French dubbed ANH(R)? I'm actually considering making a fan edit of the French dubb for Ady's ANH(R), fixing all the bad translations they did back then (3po > 6po ?, millennium Falcon > millennium Condor?!, Chewbacca > Chictabac ?!?!? or Chewie > Chico ?!?!?) but I'm not sure I'll have the time to do something like that…

Anyway, I'm verry happy to hear that you intend to add French dubbing Ady.

:)

@ Jaitea: I agree Lapti Nek isn't as bad as Jedi Rocks, but it's not that great either, IMO. Anyway the link you posted is quite good, it's no doubt better than the SE.

Anyway I think we should go away from the whole musical/Broadway like thing.
It's too old-fashioned and corny. We need to go back to something that sound ancient, out of time (if you take the nuance), after all, Star Wars is meant to have occurred a long time ago, right?

@Bingowings: that my friend is amazing, a good point to start from.
(Discarding what's at range of a fan edit)
I think taking Oola back to the center of the scene in an mysterious/Oriental/Spanish/sensual/lustful kind of dance would be a good idea.
Plus Oola is a beloved character among the fans (why do you think everybody like Aalya Secura ;), she's sexy, she could dance like the Salomé in your vid.
In fact the whole Sultan thing fits like a glove to Jabba, isn't it?

Ha ha ha, don't worry guys, it was just harmless chatting…
But to make sure you don't miss a word of our fascinating conversation:

ABC said:

 Good job :) . (... Un gars de chez moi ça, à tous les coups).

Bon travail :) . (… A guy from my place, no doubts about it).

savmagoett said:

Ça dépends, t'es d'où? Moi de Bruxelles…

Ceci dit je le regrette amèrement TFU en Fr, j'aurai préféré en VO, j'ai pas fais attention :/

That depends, where are u from? I'm from Brussels…
That being said I bitterly regret TFU in French, I would have prefer it in English, I just didn't pay attention to it :/

ABC said:

 ah non, je suis plus à l' Ouest. TFU, kezako ?

No, I'm western. TFU, wassat ?

savmagoett said:

FTU = The Force Unleashed

TFU = Le Pouvoir De La Force

ABC said:

Ah, désolé, je ne connais pas, surement du jeux video... 'Pas pour moi ça.

Ah, sorry, don't know that, must be some video game… 'No for me.

I assumed he found out that I speak French because of the French mission objective on top of a TFU screengrab I used in my Cloud City analysis.

Voilà, now you know everything :)
Sorry about the digression guys, I just love English, but, in this ocean of Englisness that is Internet, it was fun to bump into someone who speak my language for once…

Next time I speak in Aurek-Besh or Huttese, I'll translate it, promise ;)

FTU = The Force Unleashed