Love it! I’ve got a whole lot of LDs that I’d like to preserve and I appreciate your help.
This is what I’m working with so far, and I’m continuing to improve
Since the 3:2 pulldown is completely reversible (unlike true interlaced video) I think you’ll find converting your 60fps capture back into frame accurate (capable of being GOUT Sync’d) full frames at 23.976 fps with no interlacing and no duplicates is much harder than if you just capture it at 29.97 and then IVTC it with a single line in an AVISynth script:
AVISource(“c:\path\to\my_29_97_LD_Capture.avi”).Tfm().tdecimate()
Or simply open it in Virtualdub, go to Video -> Filters -> Add -> IVTC and choose Reduce Frame Rate, Auto, Adaptive, Click OK and then save your file.
I’ll give this a try and see what I can come up with
Interlaced means that every 60th of a second, half the image is shown. The first 60th shows the odd lines of the image, the second 60th shows all the even lines. So basically, you have 30 full images a second. But you know that already.
As the movie was shot at 24 fps (not 30 fps), the “trick” to transform 24 fps into 30 fps (so that it can be carried on NTSC) is by doubling (pulling up) some frames, which you can easily remove (“pull down”) with IVTC (in AVISynth or even VirtualDub).
You won’t get additional information, image or quality by keeping those pulled up frames.
I understand that and I don’t disagree with you - I’m suggesting only that by capturing both halves and generating product at 60fps, the end result appears with less blur, and little to no combing.
I know that the pulled up frames from 24 - 30 doesn’t give us any additional quality, but I believe there is a significant increase in combing if this is captured at 30fps.
You can use AVISynth to IVTC the 3:2 pulldown 29.97fps back to the original frame rate, or at least the original frame rate when telecined. The true original is 24fps.
Ok… there is a misunderstanding here of some form. I’m confused as to what you both mean. I certainly understand that I can use AVISynth to IVTC a 3:2 pulldown 29.97fps back to 24fps. But I am not working with 29.97 content per say.
I guess where I’m at is - I’m capturing at 60fps because the content is natively 480i/60 (60 being the field rate, not the frame rate). I understand the frame rate of the movie was originally 24fps on film and then 29.97fps on the disc, but the field rate of the image is what I am concerned with, the LD content is displayed at 60Hz.
The disc is playing at 29.97fps, but that image is flickering at 60hz. I’m capturing the entire flicker by capturing at 60fps, then post-processing to remove flicker/interlace. I understand that functionally what I am left with is a frankenstined 30fps content with the frames more or less doubled and being played back at 60fps. However, I have found that because of the 60Hz rate that this was originally outputted from the LD player at, that this leaves me with a much better image. It seems to me that this has prevented a great deal of the “smear” effect people describe in LD captures.
I understand there a numerous different ways to work with analog interlaced signal, I am not understanding what benefit would be derived from taking this content back down to 24fps - 60 is to ensure the image remains as smooth as possible.
If I’m misunderstanding what you’re suggesting please explain why - I do want to offer the highest quality image possible.
If you’re going to upscale to 1080p, I’d use 23.97 as your frame rate, not 60p (59.94). You can use AVISynth to IVTC the 3:2 pulldown 29.97fps back to the original frame rate, or at least the original frame rate when telecined. The true original is 24fps.
Currently, I’m using 60 on purpose because of the interlaced signal from the LD. This allows for a substantially cleaner image to be captured.
I have considered re-encoding it back down to 23.97 after post-processing the image
I have a 100 inch projection set-up that I use regularly. I can tell you from experience that it is not worth the trouble of constantly adjusting the screen to fit content perfectly.
I recommend matching the screen size to the maximum aspect of your projector and leaving it at that - I’d say get a 16:9 screen @ 1.1 gain, set the projector to fill the entire screen and never touch it again.
My specific point being that the “annoying black bars” are not going to make a fundamental difference when you watch the movie. If you’re in a home theater, its going to be dark and you are going to be focused on the displayed image - there’d be no difference if you matched the screen size exactly to the image - the image is still the exact same size - therefore you’re either projecting the black bars onto the portion of the screen that’s not in use, or projecting them onto the wall (or black curtain!?) above and below the screen - in the end there is literally no reason to try to fit “flush” with your screen - you gain absolutely nothing. Again, ironically, if you’re going to make the image fit perfectly - you’ll need to put up black curtain above and below the screen - so what exactly was the point?
I just wanted to add something - I didn’t want to come across as rude with my previous post. If making it fit perfectly is really something you’re serious about a projection screen might not be what you want.
I’d suggest picking out a place on the wall where you want to project, outlining a large 16:9 dimension rectangle and painting the wall behind it to be slightly off-white - I’d recommend aiming for the same shade as a 1.1 gain screen to give you the best contrast. I’d then suggest rigging up two poles and/or wall mounts with a simple pulley system on each attached the walls at the borders. Use a 1/2 inch wooden rod strung between and attached to the pulleys (onto the cables themselves) - one at the top of your screen and another at the bottom. Get some black fabric that is thick and you cannot see through, wrap it over and around the rod and attach it back to itself - roll the excess around a second rod placed - to create a spool - then attach the spool rod to the wheel of the pulley itself
Set up you projector to fit the painted area and then pop on your favorite movie - winch the pulley up and the two black cloths will start to head towards and meet in the middle, find the perfect dimension to have a perfect screen size and use a clothes pin to hold the pulley cable in place during the film. Get a couple of yards of decent bright red or burgundy cloth and cover your poles and/or pulley mounts hanging down to the floor just like the curtain at the theater.
This would also work with a permanently mounted screen or a retractable screen as well.
Just my $.02 on how you can make a pretty easy at home Matte system and actually be just like the theater while saving you the trouble of constantly moving the screen and having to adjust the vertical axis on the projector to accommodate - this way your projector is always pointing at the same place
Yes, great suggestions, thank you! No I didn’t take anything the wrong way, no problem. I should have mentioned that I already have a wall-mounted 92" 16x9 Stewart screen. So on that screen I will play 16x9 and 1.85 content and adjust the 1.85 to fill the screen. On the new scope screen I want, I’ll play 2.35, 2.37, 2.39 and 2.40 and adjust accordingly. Making the adjustments aren’t that difficult because my JVC NX7 can be pre-programmed to make adjustments on the fly. As for the black bars, for whatever reason (gain, pre-hung ceiling with white tiles) I see the bars and so do our guests… and frankly I am TIRED of answering the question “Why do they cut off the picture on the top and the bottom!?” As you know, they are NOT cutting off anything, they are GIVING us more image on the sides! So, that’s another reason I want to eliminate the black bars, to stop the stupid questions and maybe show them once and for all why the black bars exist. Finally, the main reason I want another screen is because I can’t get a screen bigger than what I have because I can’t push my speakers any more to the right (stairway), or to the left (electrical panel closet). The only way to get a bigger screen is to drop it down in front of the existing speakers, with acoustically-transparent (AT) screen material of course. Actually the height of the new drop-down scope screen will only be a few inches taller than the existing 16x9 screen, but it will be much wider to the left and to the right.
Gotcha - that sounds like it will be a slick set-up. If I’m understanding you correctly, you’ll keep the old screen, but it will be just behind the new one and you can raise up the larger screen if you wanted to use the 92" for different sized content? If you can get everything lined up correctly that would be pretty awesome to be able to go for an ultra wide image on some films, but drop back to a full frame 16x9 when you needed it with just a couple remote clicks
NX7 is a heck of a machine.
Of course, the only problem is - you can never have a large enough screen…
I have a 100 inch projection set-up that I use regularly. I can tell you from experience that it is not worth the trouble of constantly adjusting the screen to fit content perfectly.
I recommend matching the screen size to the maximum aspect of your projector and leaving it at that - I’d say get a 16:9 screen @ 1.1 gain, set the projector to fill the entire screen and never touch it again.
My specific point being that the “annoying black bars” are not going to make a fundamental difference when you watch the movie. If you’re in a home theater, its going to be dark and you are going to be focused on the displayed image - there’d be no difference if you matched the screen size exactly to the image - the image is still the exact same size - therefore you’re either projecting the black bars onto the portion of the screen that’s not in use, or projecting them onto the wall (or black curtain!?) above and below the screen - in the end there is literally no reason to try to fit “flush” with your screen - you gain absolutely nothing. Again, ironically, if you’re going to make the image fit perfectly - you’ll need to put up black curtain above and below the screen - so what exactly was the point?
I just wanted to add something - I didn’t want to come across as rude with my previous post. If making it fit perfectly is really something you’re serious about a projection screen might not be what you want.
I’d suggest picking out a place on the wall where you want to project, outlining a large 16:9 dimension rectangle and painting the wall behind it to be slightly off-white - I’d recommend aiming for the same shade as a 1.1 gain screen to give you the best contrast. I’d then suggest rigging up two poles and/or wall mounts with a simple pulley system on each attached the walls at the borders. Use a 1/2 inch wooden rod strung between and attached to the pulleys (onto the cables themselves) - one at the top of your screen and another at the bottom. Get some black fabric that is thick and you cannot see through, wrap it over and around the rod and attach it back to itself - roll the excess around a second rod placed - to create a spool - then attach the spool rod to the wheel of the pulley itself
Set up you projector to fit the painted area and then pop on your favorite movie - winch the pulley up and the two black cloths will start to head towards and meet in the middle, find the perfect dimension to have a perfect screen size and use a clothes pin to hold the pulley cable in place during the film. Get a couple of yards of decent bright red or burgundy cloth and cover your poles and/or pulley mounts hanging down to the floor just like the curtain at the theater.
This would also work with a permanently mounted screen or a retractable screen as well.
Just my $.02 on how you can make a pretty easy at home Matte system and actually be just like the theater while saving you the trouble of constantly moving the screen and having to adjust the vertical axis on the projector to accommodate - this way your projector is always pointing at the same place
I have a 100 inch projection set-up that I use regularly. I can tell you from experience that it is not worth the trouble of constantly adjusting the screen to fit content perfectly.
I recommend matching the screen size to the maximum aspect of your projector and leaving it at that - I’d say get a 16:9 screen @ 1.1 gain, set the projector to fill the entire screen and never touch it again.
My specific point being that the “annoying black bars” are not going to make a fundamental difference when you watch the movie. If you’re in a home theater, its going to be dark and you are going to be focused on the displayed image - there’d be no difference if you matched the screen size exactly to the image - the image is still the exact same size - therefore you’re either projecting the black bars onto the portion of the screen that’s not in use, or projecting them onto the wall (or black curtain!?) above and below the screen - in the end there is literally no reason to try to fit “flush” with your screen - you gain absolutely nothing. Again, ironically, if you’re going to make the image fit perfectly - you’ll need to put up black curtain above and below the screen - so what exactly was the point?
V1.1 of ANH is available
ESB has been captured and is in post-processing currently
Well what happens when the film is on tv then? Picture gets cut off, right ?
Take a read on the subject of “Open Matte” versions of films, which is the reverse of your question, and when you see “more” image rather than less
This sounds incredibly shady
You need to create a playlist so that when you create an ISO/BDMV Structure there are titles which will play in a set order - research it
If you subscribe to Adobe Premier Pro CC, you can then select the download option of CS6 instead. Install Premier Pro CS6 in its entirety, which will include Encore as an add-on.
https://www.videolane.com/how-to-get-adobe-encore-cs6-from-cc/
That being said, Adobe is or may have already removed the CS6 downgrade option…
Outside of that, you can sometimes find an Adobe software Suite, physical install discs, on Ebay occasionally. Encore was discontinued in 2012, there are “new” physical copies out there.
The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”
Interesting! Thank you. I don’t have the LDs or the videotapes, I only have the 2004 DVDs and the 2011 Blu-rays.
My mistake - the back of the Episode IV laserdisc actually states “theatrical aspect ratio 2.35:1”
There is a poster on the binaries that has posted all of the Star Wars laserDisc audio rips in lossless - I believe it is every audio track from every LD release.
I have it bookmarked at home to use for my “Faces” project.
deleted
I realized I made a goof and encoded this without dropping the tail off from disc two and encoding with just the LD audio track. I am re-encoding it now for a 1.1 version that is actually a seamless movie. My mistake, stay tuned for updates.
Check out JawsTDS’ excellent Return of the GOUT upscale. If nothing else, use it as a reference to make sure your results are meeting or exceeding the quality there.
The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”
Interesting! Thank you. I don’t have the LDs or the videotapes, I only have the 2004 DVDs and the 2011 Blu-rays.
Check out my thread on the LD “Faces” upscale to 1080p60, I’m working on a current project for the original trilogy and just finished a V1.0 draft of '77
The rear of the “Faces” LDs state “Shown in the Original Aspect ratio 2.39”
Correction - the back of Episode IV states “theatrical aspect ration 2.35:1”
I’m not the first person to attempt this, but I wanted to try my own hand at these while I’ve also been working on some other LaserDiscs.
I will be completing the entire original trilogy. I will also be including the exclusive bonus feature interview with George Lucas that was available on these discs, also in 1080p.
The films are presented in the “correct” aspect ratio @ 23.976fps with lossless PCM audio
Look for these in a.b.starwars
Star Wars (Episode IV) is now available. “Faces_ANH_LD1080”
Episode V is now available. “Faces_ESB_LD1080”
Episode VI is now available. “Faces_ROTJ_LD1080”
You can do it in adobe premier pretty easily.
Load the file in and click on interpret - assume frame rate 25. Premier by default is going to assume NTSC frame rates, so you’ll want to make sure it’s either detected 25fps on the source or manually set it to that.
Then change the playback rate to 96% (there is a checkbox option for audio pitch, I believe checking it maintains PAL pitch, I would only check this if your PAL source was already pitch corrected)
Then export at 23.976.
Premier is usually available for a free 30 day, full trial. If you have a good computer system you can bang this out in about 30 minutes start to finish.
Doesn’t seem to be a lot of interest in this project which is a shame because this is a fantastic film.
So far about 1/3 of the way through a frame by frame scale. Results are surprisingly impressive given the source material.
Hang in there FXM will most likely show it again. I have been capturing a lot of FXM stuff, but I do not have the ability to capture in HD. The best I can do is a Copy to a DVD recorder in SD using the HD source.
I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it will come on again.
If you can snag it, even if it’s just in SD, that would be a great help!
Doesn’t seem to be a lot of interest in this project which is a shame because this is a fantastic film.
So far about 1/3 of the way through a frame by frame scale. Results are surprisingly impressive given the source material.
So far, one of the titles required is Toy Story. I know for a fact that Charles Threepio’s 1.5K restoration in 3D is the main video source.
Are you just trying to find people who have these LDs and can pull the DTS track?