MrInsaneA said:
Bingowings said:
Anchorhead isn't a settlement he is a man.
Anchorhead is a writer, a doctor, a nuclear physicist, a theoretical philosopher. But above all, he is a man—a hopelessly inquisitive man just like you
I'd never say it can't be done. I just don't see how it can be done. And the other part is I personally don't think it NEEDS to be done, so Im not thinking all that hard about it. I like it the way it is, so I don't care enough to work at it.
That said, because its probably the single biggest debate when regarding the two trilogies, I think its great to try it, to see what can be done about. I just think its better the way it is.
Regarding the R2 jets. I didn't love them at first, but I think thats because I really can't stand everything about that whole droid factory sequence. The R2 boosters themselves are kinda cool and I loved in ROTS. So adding them to the Sand pit in Jedi might be cool if it worked well.
Question is, can anyone explain to me what that rope Leia and Luke swing out to the skiff is connected to? The sky?
Brimley said:
Bingowings said:
If you have to give the other guy a name, why not call him Luke?
That way people will assume Luke Skywalker is named after his father and not after the friend of his father who is later betrayed and murdered by him.
GENIUS!
No way this works. Im sorry. It sounds interesting actually, but no way it actually makes that a shock. I say again. Ask yourself, if YOU would be fooled. Not some hypothetical first timer. Would YOU see this, and then see A New Hope and not say Oh, I see where this is going.
That is an excellent point and one I hadn't thought of or heard mention. Even if you preserve the surprise, its not the SAME surprise.
It was once holy crap, evil Darth Vader is Luke's Father.
Now its, Hey Anakin is still alive and HE is evil Darth Vader.
Those are very different things. And to be honest, probably a very good reason for why Lucas chose not to do that.
You may be right, but I'm not sure. However, even if you are, I would rather figure it out than it be spelled out to me. I hate when movies pretend the audience is stupid and has to be handed all the information.
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Ok. Now thats true in general but not for this I don't think. I don't want a mystery spelled out to me. But this simly isn't made to be a mystery. Its not spelling it out, its just what happens.
Again though. Im cool with the debate. I really am and Id love to see a really good polished attempt at it.
First let me say that I am all in favor of seeing this done. While I generally am betting that it can't be done and generally think that it doesn't need to be done, Id like to see it. Its been part of the biggest debate there is surround the prequels, so Im absolutely excited to see someone try it. And I'd be first in line to eat some mynock and admit Im wrong if it works.
A couple of things. Drax is right that the it is INTENDED to be watch by the numbers. But wrong when saying it doesnt work. It does WORK, but it changes something that you and a ton of other people, myself included, love. If I say it doesn't work for you, thats not a blow-off. It matters. But it does work for me. I find the saga much more interesting this way if perhaps less "cool" in certain aspects.
What Lucas did is brilliant. And this discussion is an example of that brilliance, even though most people think this debate is an example of his stupidity. He did something thats never been done, or even tried. He crafted these three films to take place before the existing films in such a way that they function properly when watched in the new order but that are also satisfying to those whod already seen the others. So the debate 1-6 or OT-PT is a cool one that can truly be done either way.
Lucas made the right choice in not trying to protect that surprise because I don't think it was protectable at all. Not only do I think there is no way to edit the films in a way that protects the surprise. I don't think there was a way to write them and produce them from scratch that would have protected it. Not without making the whole thing suck.
Ask yourself honestly. Do you think you personally wouldn't figure it out? Is there any version of 3 prequel movies that legitimately show Anakin's backstory and the fall of the Jedi/Rise of Empire where YOU personally wouldn't figure it out in A New Hope? Aren't we all a little too sophisticated for that?
This conversation is tricky. I know this place is called Original Trilogy.com so, as a fan of the prequels, I tread pretty lightly here. Theres clearly some agree to disagree that will be needed if you think that losing the prequels altogether is no big loss.
Trying to stay to technicalities of it though. I think there is no way it works if you show Padme being pregnant. Based on cutting things that exist. You guys that are skilled at adding dialog and stuff, then that might be different.
That said. I think it would be a shame to lose the scene with Anakin becoming Vader. I think thats a powerful scene. For us its a great homage to the Darth Vader suit. For newbies its a painful scene where Anakin is being locked inside this cage.
Additionally. If you are truly talking about newbies. Trying to imagine a 10 year old or 20 year old who has no concept of I am you father. Then Id venture to say that the "Surprise" of Anakin actually turning bad is an amazing surprise. I mean really, whod believe he was actually going to go that bad. We know movies. We know people drift toward the dark side, but to end the way Revenge of the Sith ends. Thats a shock.
I don't think its doable at all. I think the best you can do is create a sort of muddled story where you don't really know whats going on. If we know the names Skywalker for Anakin and Luke and if we know that Padme is pregnant, then I think most people wont buy what Obi-Wan is selling to Luke for a minute. But I am in favor of someone trying it. Its enough of a debate to make it worth trying to see what its like. I just don't think theres enough material for it.
I'll tell you guys something else that isn't going to be popular. I think Lucas skated pretty on some pretty thin ice when he pulled the I am your father bit to begin with. I know a few people who were adults when Empire came out and several have said that I am your father was met with a fair bit of criticism. "Its like a soap opera" was the "its a bunch of muppets" complaint.
I'd be willing to bet that whatever you put together toward preserving that surprise will only worsen that possibility. Id guess thats probably part of why Lucas didn't worry about it.
From a cinema history perspective, "I am your father" is great. As an actual cinematic device. Its a little gimmicky.
Because a blank normal looking forehead, while technically consistant, doesn't do much for ADDING continuity. It just removes a very very minor difference.
Adding moles to Alec Guiness however does the opposit. There is something particular to notice that automatically calls back to the other one.
I understand that the attitude around here is very OT Now OT Forever! I don't think a blanket rule of change the PT to fit the OT is necessarily smart. Regardless of what you'd like, you only have so much to work with.
It can be your guiding principle in general, but you really need to be making whatever changes you feel you need, on either side to make the best possible version.
I'm not sold on the whole preserving surprises. I get why you want it, but I think 1, its impossible and 2 you are shortchanging the reverse viewings of those surprises. I am your father is still in the movie. Its just different. Now its, the audience knows, but Luke does not. And that isn't nothing. Its a very powerful scene when view from that *ahem* point of view. Im not saying its AS good, but its got its own merits.
Ask yourself. Has knowing Vader is Luke's father diminished the scene all these years since you first saw it? Don't you still watch Luke closely for his reaction to the truth?
Assuming that a new viewer has no idea about Darth Vader and Luke. I think its interesting to be in on the lie that Obi-Wan tells. And then to hear Vader say Obi-Wan never told you etc. He told me enough, he told me you killed him.
All of that is fascinating Id say to a first timer. I can imagine being on the edge of my seat waiting to see if Vader is going to drop the bomb on Luke and how Luke will react.
You trade in some twist shock (which I think is a bit overrated) and gain a little suspense.
Not saying its better or AS good, but it doesn't suck.
I love this thread because I think it shows a willingness to try to accept the whole trilogy.
I ll try to keep this short. Im 1-6 guy. If we exclude the "big surprise" I think you legitimately find that the Prequels work much better this way, and the OT is either the same or actually a little deeper. Its a long debate and discussion better suited for a different time and place.
I also think you aren't likely to find even new viewers that don't have some concept of "I am your Father" unless they are too young to really get it anyway.
I do, however, think you will find people who don't know little boy Anakin turns into Darth Vader. So you also have a surprise that none of us ever knew WAS a surprise. I like the idea that new viewers have heard of Darth Vader but not Anakin Skywalker and might not realize that he does in fact go bad. I mean seriously If you are watching 1-6 for the first time. You might still think Anakin will come through in the end, til you hear those words Darth Vader.
ok. on to this thread.
One thing for me that I love about the OT now that I have seen the PT is Padme. Shes not there and shes not mentioned, but she is so relevant for me now.
You hear Beru say "He has too much of his father in him" and Yoda says "Much like his father" Why, in the end, does Luke succeed where his Father failed? Because he also quite like his mother. To me this is one of the best things the prequels did to enhance the OT.
So Id like to have Padme added to the OT. I don't know how. Not as a Force Ghost which wouldn't make sense. I don't know if any voiceovers make sense either. I wish there was a way to make Old Ben mention her to Luke somehow. I don't know.
Maybe we could hear her say "Luke" like she did to him when he was born. It would be a cool thing for Luke and would also help with the issues of Leia having "Force memories" instead of actual memories.
Just thinking. Great thread!
For me, its not about making a better film. I have few complaints about any of the films. I am however interested in trying to make a 4hr cut of all 6 films as one epic movie. Just for kicks really. So thats why Im interested in trying find a 40-50 minute version of AOTC that works.
I like the Kamino sequences. I especially like any of the Obi-Wan Detective scenes.
You say you could cut AOTC down to about 45 minutes. Thats very interesting. Could you go through some of the cuts you'd make? I've been working on cutting TPM for so long, Im just now getting into AOTC to start whittling it down.
We may differ of course depending on how much you hate/like things in that movie. Thanks.
I was also wondering what subtitles he and you added to get Anakin to meet up with them.
Im doing the same and had the same idea. I was considering having him tell Anakin to keep an eye on them or to maybe keep them from going to another store or possibly warning them about the upcoming storm.
I cut the asteroids entirely on my first run through. I have them chasing the falcon and then them dissappearing onto the back right away. Then they float away with the garbage and find that Bespin is near. Then I put in a couple of the Han Leia scenes that are actually in the cave. While they are presumably floating toward Bespin.
What I really want to do is figure out a way to make it appear that they got Frozen Han back from Fett before its over. Because I plan to cut the guts out of Return of the Jedi
Wow. Thats pretty great. I may have to use that. Though I will lament losing a couple things. But thats the sucky thing about this project.
Funny thing is. I would never been bothered by cutting the Sand People but after what happens in clones. I feel like its more impactful. You really know just how scary they are.
Im unsure if I have the fortiude to go deep into changing out backgrounds and things like that. I have never done that, but Id like to learn.
Have you got any of these shots online to look at?
-T
Id be very interested in seeing it. I myself am working on a all 6 Saga version. My goal to get it in a 3 hrs. and 59 minutes. Going to try to get in more than just what you are doing. But I know I'll have to limit to a small amount of Story Lines.
Not sure about how to post it though.
I liked the Montage also. One suggestion.
I'd include some shots of Anakin from the Arena fight at the beginning of the montage. So that you can show him with his Padawan haircut. Then I would use the shots of him flying the fighter at the end of it so that you can see his Sexy Jedi Knight haircut and really indicate that it has been a while. Then you can end the montage with them crash landing on the ship and him getting out. Calmly and that should seque nicely into the realization that he and obi are now equals.